Two and a Half Dozen Men - aka, the 2012 Rankings

[Frayed Knot]

To paraphrase that old commercial for the place that apparently needs to update its brand/logo: It’s time to make the Rankings

You should all know how this works at this point. Rank from 30 down to 1, based on actual contributions (as opposed to say expectations or per salary) as to who on this year’s squad added most or least to the team and be williing to discuss and/or defend your choices.
Or simply join in on the banter. Just hashing out who was the season’s 2nd best position player could be a whole discussion just on its own.

There were 47 fellows lucky enough to don the team colors this year from which to choose your personal top 30.

22 position players (listed in order of ABs)
WRIGHT -- MURPHY -- DAVIS -- TEJADA -- DUDA
TORRES -- HAIRSTON -- THOLE -- NIEUWENHUIS -- BAY
BAXTER -- VALDESPIN -- CEDENO -- TURNER -- NICKEAS
SHOPPACH -- QUINTANILLA -- JOHNSON -- ROTTINO -- LEWIS
LUTZ -- SATIN

And 27 pitchers (in order by IPs)
DICKEY -- NIESE -- SANTANA -- YOUNG -- GEE
HEFNER -- PARNELL -- RRAMIREZ -- HARVEY -- RAUCH
ACOSTA -- BATISITA -- FRANCISCO -- BYRDAK -- EDGIN
McHUGH -- ERANIREZ -- PELFREY -- MEJIA -- CARSON
FAMILIA -- HAMPSON -- SCHWINDEN -- BEATO -- CARRASCO
EGBERT -- OLSON

[Frayed Knot]

Personally I've gotten as far as:
DICKEY
WRIGHT
NIESE
for my top three, but then get a bit lost after that and would love it if someone could talk me out of naming Ike Davis as the 4th best NYM player of 2012


Here's my thinking on the position players at the moment --

* Wright - 1st half MVP candidate had a rather ordinary 2nd half but still led the Mets in virtually everything (Hits, 2Bs, RBIs, RC, RC/27, and even SBs)
* Davis - Seems odd to call him the 2nd best offensive player of 2012 after calling for his demotion early in the year. But between the power, the ridiculous knack for displaying that power with runners on base, and his high walk totals to somewhat negate the bad BA he overcomes his flaws better than the other flawed candidates
* Murphy - Lots of doubles but virtually no HR power and surprisingly few walks. Was able to hang at 2nd base all year without totally embarrassiing himself, surprising several of us here and maybe on his own team too.
* Tejada - Good BA + very good defense vs no power + missed a month
* Hairston - Not a complete player by any means, but having half your hits go for extra-bases while filling in decently at all 3 OF positions has its value
* Duda - Not enough power considering the downside of his defense and low BA
* Baxter - More RC/G than anyone except for Wright. If he could only hit LHP (1-for-19 w/8 Ks) he might actually earn himself more ABs and do more damage.
* Nieuwenhuis - An exciting start but then couldn’t adjust to pitchers’ adjustments
* Torres - Ummmm, he played CF
* Valdespin - A handful of huge moments
* Thole - The sad part is that this was the best of our catching corps
* Cedeno - Decent back-up all-around infielder
* Turner - Similar to Cedeno but with a lesser glove
* Shoppach - Not K-ing in 1/3 of your ABs would be a nice start toward improvement
* Bay - There’s no hiding a .165 BA
* Johnson - He was better than Nickeas
* Nickeas - He was Nickeas

Quintanilla, Lewis, Rottino, Lutz & Satin played too briefly to contemplate.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

30. Wright
29. Dickey
28. Niese
27. Davis
26. Tejada
25. Murphy
24. Parnell
23. Santana
22. Harvey
21. Hairston
20. Rauch
19. Young
18. Torres
17. Baxter
16. Thole
15. Gee
14. Cedeno
13. Turner
12. Byrdak
11. Duda
10. Francisco
9. R. Ramirez
8. Nieuwenhuis
7. Valdespin
6. Hampson
5. Quintanilla
4. Shoppach
3. Carson
2. Bay
1. Johnson

OE: Edited to proper 30-1 format, lest anyone think that I ranked Rob Johnson first.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[TransMonk]

30 R.A. Dickey
29 David Wright
28 Jonathon Niese
27 Ike Davis
26 Daniel Murphy
25 Scott Hairston
24 Ruben Tejada
23 Bobby Parnell
22 Lucas Duda
21 Andres Torres
20 Chris Young
19 Dillon Gee
18 Johan Santana
17 Kirk Nieuwenhuis
16 Matt Harvey
15 Mike Baxter
14 Jon Rauch
13 Josh Thole
12 Jeremy Hefner
11 Ronny Cedeno
10 Jordany Valdespin
9 Ramon Ramirez
8 Justin Turner
7 Tim Byrdak
6 Mike Pelfrey
5 Jason Bay
4 Frank Francisco
3 Manny Acosta
2 Miguel Batista
1 Omar Quintanilla

Edited October 29, 2012 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

PITCHERS:

Dickey - No explanations needed
Niese - Solid season and this time went wire to wire with it
Santana - HIs final 5 horrid starts ruined all the stats from what had been a great 1st half
Gee - Of the three half-season starters he had the best ERA & WHiP, just not as good a peak as Santana
Young - A decent, even if not great, 20 starts, although that’s 16 more than we got last time.
Parnell - The best of a bad pen even if he occasionally frustrated the hell out of me
Harvey - 10 starts, gave up 3 runs or fewer in 9 of them. He’d win this if we were voting on future points.
Rauch - Lousy early on, but the most dependable reliever over the 2nd half even though he was at times inexplicably limited to 1 and 2 batter stints
Byrdak - As the only LHR for a long stretch he held up his end quite well while he was there
Francisco - It’s tough for a full-time closer to finish this low. FF somehow managed.
R. Ramirez - Spent most of the year being neither good enough to want to see come out of the pen nor bad enough to want off the team
Edgin - More or less was the back half of Byrdak, just for a shorter span
Hefner - A handful of good games but more bad than good
Pelfrey - Good news: Nice three starts. Bad news: Only three of them
Acosta - Gets points for being a workhorse but points off for being a bad one
Batista - Appeared in 30 games, started 5, finished 7. That’s all I got
Carson - 17 appearances, 13 innings, mixed results.
McHugh - For one glorious start
Familia - Promising looking, but not enough in this season to rank any higher
Hampson - Actually pitched well when he was in there, but 10 innings over 13 appearances only gets you so far
Schwinden - 3 games, 2 starts, and 13 runs allowed
Beato - Started late, seemed tentative when he did pitch, then was traded for some reason
Carrasco - No soup for you
Egbert -- Olson -- Someone will need to refresh my memory as to who these guys were. I think BB-Ref is making them up.



And all mashed together ...

30 - DICKEY
29 - WRIGHT
28 - NIESE
27 - DAVIS
26 - MURPHY
25 - SANTANA
24 - TEJADA
23 - HAIRSTON
22 - GEE
21 - YOUNG
20 - DUDA
19 - PARNELL
18 - HARVEY
17 - NIEUWENHUIS
16 - RAUCH
15 - BAXTER
14 - TORRES
13 - BYRDAK
12 - FRANCISCO
11 - VALDESPIN
10 - R.RAMIREZ
9 - THOLE
8 - EDGIN
7 - CEDENO
6 - HEFNER
5 - TURNER
4 - PELFREY
3 - SHOPPACH
2 - ACOSTA
1 - BAY

[Vic Sage]

------- (great)
30 - DICKEY
29 - WRIGHT
-------- (good)
28 - NIESE
---------(ok)
27 - MURPHY
26 - DAVIS
25 - HAIRSTON
24 - SANTANA
23 - HARVEY
22 - TEJADA
--------- (not bad)
21 - GEE
20 - PARNELL
19 - YOUNG
18 - RAUCH
17 - DUDA
16 - BAXTER
-------- (increasingly bad, inconsistent or absent)
15 - NIEUWENHUIS
14 - VALDESPIN
13 - CEDENO
12 - BYRDAK
11 - TURNER
10 - FRANCISCO
9 - TORRES
8 - THOLE
7 - PELFREY
6 - QUINTANILLA
-------- (from bad to worse)
5 - R.RAMIREZ
4 - HEFNER
3 - EDGIN
2 - ACOSTA
1 - BAY

hitters not making my list (50+ ABs): Nickeas, Shoppach, R.Johnson [coincidentally, all our backup catchers]
pitchers not making my list (20+ IP): Batista, E.Ramirez, McHugh

Edited October 31, 2012 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

30. Wright
29. Dickey
*
28. Niese
27. Hairston
26. Parnell
25. Murphy
24. Davis
23. Rauch
22. Duda
*
21. Harvey
20. Tejada
19. Baxter
18. Nieuwenhuis
17. Cedeno
16. Turner
15. R. Ramirez
14. Young
13. Gee
12. Valdespin
11. Byrdak
10. Santana
9. Hefner
8. Francisco
7. Edgin
6. Acosta
*
5. Torres
4. Thole
3. Bay
2. Quintanilla
1. Pelfrey
***
0. Rottino
-1. Batista
-2. Hampson
-3. Carson
-4. E. Ramirez
-5. Shoppach
-6. McHugh
-7. Mejia
-8. Familia
-9. Nickeas
-10. Johnson
-11. Lewis
-12 Beato
-13. Schwinden
-14. Lutz
-15. Satin
-16. Egbert
-17. Olson
-18. Carrasco

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don;t think I've ever ranked a relief pitcher as high as Parnell here but it's relative to his teammates. I am harder on Santana than most of you so far.

[Vic Sage]

you're harder on Santana than ANY of us so far. but that's ok, that's why we do this. To wash out the "outliers".

I thought long and hard about Santana. I could've talked myself into ranking him anywhere from 24 to 15. Based on his final numbers, he should be toward the bottom of that range, maybe lower (as low as 10? maybe). But his numbers were skewed by some really bad starts toward the end, where he was clearly pitching through injury. And any guy who gives us the 1st no-hitter in our history gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: you're harder on Santana than ANY of us so far. but that's ok, that's why we do this. To wash out the "outliers". I thought long and hard about Santana. I could've talked myself into ranking him anywhere from 24 to 15. Based on his final numbers, he should be toward the bottom of that range, maybe lower (as low as 10? maybe). But his numbers were skewed by some really bad starts toward the end, where he was clearly pitching through injury. And any guy who gives us the 1st no-hitter in our history gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

it's certainly interesting. If it was just about this season, and there was no other Mets years involved, we'd still put Johan Santana pretty high on the "greatest Mets" list just off the no-hitter. The numbers look bad but the numbers were really good through June. But the bad numbers coincide with the Mets collapse too so they did have a pretty big contribution, regardless of the injury bit. (We don't give Reed Johnson enough hate btw)

I need to get this bit done myself now that I'm at work and have power here and all that.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm also way high on Hairston and Rauch and low on Tejada. Hmmm

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm also way high on Hairston and Rauch and low on Tejada. Hmmm

that seems right to me.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Do your Top 30 and see. I did not peek at the others before I did my list (which btw was constructed in 3 buckets of position players, starters and relievers and combined with the idea of aligning the "tiers." I wouldn't consider Santana Gee or Young in the same group as Dickey nor Niese who clearly established a level for themselves.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I see that I have Duda way lower than anyone else, but his abysmal (and, to my mind, indifferent) defense in RF really colors my rating.

[Vic Sage]

if he missed the same number of balls but seemed to care more about it, you'd rank him higher?

[Frayed Knot]

As compared to the (still emerging) consensus:

Swan is low on not only Duda but also Nieuwenhuis (clearly he hates lefty-swinging OFers) and also Hefner who he left off the top-30 entirely.
He's higher than most for Thole and for relievers Hampson & Carson who got their only points from his ballot.

JCL is low not just on Johan but on starters in general (Gee & Young included) while higher than most on relievers and backup infielders

FK balances things out by going low on those same backups (Turner & Cedeno) and is highest on Frank-Frank

Monk goes high on fill-in starters Batista & Hefner, but low on relievers like Rauch & Byrdak

Vic is lowest on Tejada, highest on Pelfrey


Not that any of this means you need to change your votes in some sort of conformity ritual. Merely pointing out the bigger variations for entertainment purposes only, or as places to either re-check your initial impressions and/or dig in your heels and argue your case.

[seawolf17]

Game on.

Dickey
Wright
Murphy
Davis
Tejada
Hairston
Niese
Santana
Parnell
Rauch
Duda
Harvey
Valdespin
Nieuwenhuis
Gee
RRamirez
Acosta
Torres
Thole
Young
Cedeno
Francisco
Byrdak
Edgin
Baxter
Hefner
Turner
Pelfrey
Shoppach
Bay

[Vic Sage]

Vic is lowest on Tejada, highest on Pelfrey

I'm sure i'm understating the value of the one and overstating the value of the other. But i think it does accurately represent my preference for shorter but more productive contributions over longer but unproductive ones. Pelfrey's few starts were good. Tejada was a glove-only SS with an empty BA, who missed a month to boot. No love from me for that.

It's better to burn out, than to fade away -- my my hey hey

of course, there is a tipping point. If a guy plays badly but plays alot, isn't he contributing something more to the team than someone who plays almost not at all, regardless of success? Somewhere along the spectrum, even Bay's contributions are superior to a player with relatively few ABs or IPs. If we say it does not, that his contribution is entirely negative and the more he plays the more he hurts the team (which is true, too), then by that logic, I actually should be rated higher than Bay, since i just sat on my couch and didn't hurt the team at all. That being said, I ranked Bay last. So its a delicate procedure, this weighing of plusses and minuses, of comparing disparate contributions. More art than science, i think.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Guest

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Vic Sage wrote: if he missed the same number of balls but seemed to care more about it, you'd rank him higher?

Not indifferent in attitude but in effort, jogging after balls over his head, that sort of thing.

[Vic Sage]

ok, got it. but maybe he was running as hard as he could? It always looked to me like Kevin McReynolds only ever jogged after balls, but everybody tells me he was a heck of an OFer (despite my eyeballs), so maybe its not an easy thing to assess.

[Ceetar]

30 Dickey
29 Wright
28 Niese
27 Hairston
26 Davis
25 Parnell
24 Murphy
23 Rauch
22 Santana
21 Tejada
20 Cedeno
19 Turner
18 Gee
17 Nieuwenhuis
16 Duda
15 HEFNER
14 HARVEY
13 Young
12 Baxter
11 Torres
10 Valdespin
9 Rramirez
8 Byrdak
7 Thole
6 Edgin
5 Francisco
4 Batista
3 Quintanilla
2 Pelfrey
1 Hampson

[G-Fafif]

30 Dickey
29 Wright
28 Niese
27 Murphy
26 Santana
25 Hairston
24 Davis
23 Tejada
22 Gee
21 Parnell
20 Young
19 Harvey
18 Thole
17 Valdespin
16 Duda
15 Baxter
14 Byrdak
13 Rauch
12 Francisco
11 Nieuwenhuis
10 Cedeño
9 Hefner
8 Acosta
7 Torres
6 Turner
5 Edgin
4 Shoppach
3 Quintanilla
2 Nickeas
1 McHugh

This became a very grim exercise after Niese.

Murphy gets credit for excellent attendance and stabilizing second base while hitting doubles. Santana was wonderful when the team was surprisingly good, and to me it overshadows the ankle- or innings-driven decline (plus there's nobody clearly better than Johan to keep him from being ranked high). Hairston had big moments in a part-time role; Davis got his act together when the team was falling apart and could be just terrible when not cranking up the power; Hairston doing more with less playing time is why I went Scott over Ike. Tejada filled a gap that could've been gaping, power-free nature of his hitting notwithstanding. Gee was fairly valuable in his presence, enormously so in his absence. Parnell seemed to get his act together late and makes the Top 10 by process of eliminating everybody else.

The rest of the way was a matter of balancing out relatively competent if decidedly unspectacular types (Young, Thole, Byrdak, Rauch sometimes) who almost never excelled with those who didn't set the season on fire from April to October but made Met life a little less depressing in 2012 (Harvey, Valdespin, Baxter, Nieuwenhuis, with a nod to Francisco's better first-half angels). Duda is smack in the middle, which sounds right to me as he was the little girl with the curl...or fielded like one anyway (no offense to little girls with curls and gloves better than Duda's).

It was with no personal malice that I omitted Mike Nickeas, Ramon Ramirez and Jason Bay, but boy did they suck.

[Vic Sage]

Vic is lowest on Tejada, highest on Pelfrey

I've made a bunch of adjustments

... relatively competent if decidedly unspectacular types (Young, Thole, Byrdak, Rauch sometimes)...

In what parallel universe was Thole "relatively competent if decidedly unspectacular"?
In a universe with literally NO other catchers? where, if Thole's not there behind the plate, the ball just rolls to the backstop and the ball-boy has to throw it back to the pitcher?
Because in any other universe, he sucked BHMC.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Vic Sage wrote: Vic is lowest on Tejada, highest on Pelfrey I've a bunch of adjustments

Noted.

Anyone who decides to make changes should either:
a) put up a new post with your new list
or
let us know that you've edited your old post so the changes aren't missed in the tabulating

[TransMonk]

I have edited to flip Hefner with Rauch and Batista with Byrdak.

[Frayed Knot]

Eight of us have submitted lists to date. Anyone else still interested in getting in on this (or updating your existing votes) do so sometime this week as I'll try to wrap it up by then.


I tweaked the lower half of my order a bit from how it appears above.

12 - VALDESPIN
11 - FRANCISCO
10 - THOLE
9 - R. RAMIREZ
8 - EDGIN
7 - CEDENO
6 - HEFNER
5 - TURNER
4 - PELFREY
3 - ACOSTA
2 - QUINTANILLA
1 - BAY

[nymr83]

30 R.A. Dickey
29 David Wright
28 Jonathon Niese
27 Ike Davis
26 Scott Hairston
25 Daniel Murphy
24 Ruben Tejada
23 Bobby Parnell
22 Matt Harvey
21 Chris Young
20 Dillon Gee
19 Lucas Duda
18 Jon Rauch
17 Ronny Cedeno
16 Mike Baxter
15 Kirk Nieuwenhuis
14 Justin Turner
13 Johan Santana
12 Ramon Ramirez
11 Jeremy Hefner
10 Mike Pelfrey
9 Jordany Valdespin
8 Andres Torres
7 Omar Quintanilla
6 Josh Thole
5 Miguel Batista
4 Frank Francisco
3 Justin Hampson
2 Josh Edgin
1 Vinny Rottino

[Frayed Knot]

FINAL 2012 RANKINGS

Dickey & Wright were all named either 1st or 2nd on every ballot but in the end, despite a tense back and forth battle (plus the distraction of his writing career) Dickey prevailed.
Niese was solidly in 3rd from the beginning with a substantial cushion on either side.
For 4th Ike just edged out Muffy.
The battle for 7th, 8th & 9th was a tight one, as was the grouping for 10th through 14th so, as in Florida, every vote was important.
After that, things proceeded in a mostly orderly fashion with the biggest gaps showing up between Rauch & Nieuwenhuis (14th & 15th place) and later between Francisco & Edgin for 25th & 26th
Just missing out of the money were, in order, Shoppach, Batista, Hampson, Carson, Nickeas, McHugh & Johnson

RANK	PLAYER
30	R.A. DICKEY
29	DAVID WRIGHT
28	JONATHON NIESE
27	IKE DAVIS
26	DANIEL MURPHY
25	SCOTT HAIRSTON
24	RUBEN TEJADA
23	JOHAN SANTANA
22	BOBBY PARNELL
21	LUCAS DUDA
20	MATT HARVEY
19	DILLON GEE
18	CHRIS YOUNG
17	JON RAUCH
16	KIRK NIEUWENHUIS
15	MIKE BAXTER
14	ANDRES TORRES
13	JORDANY VALDESPIN
12	RONNY CEDENO
11	JOSH THOLE
10	TIM BYRDAK
9	JUSTIN TURNER
8	RAMON RAMIREZ
7	JEREMY HEFNER
6	FRANK FRANCISCO
5	JOSH EDGIN
4	MANNY ACOSTA
3	MIKE PELFREY
2	OMAR QUINTANILLA
1	JASON BAY

[Edgy MD]

Good job. Sorry I failed to participate. My moving cut into my time when this started, but I should've gotten around to it.

Has a save leader ever done so poorly in our rankings?

[Frayed Knot]

I can't imagine that a full-year closer ever finished so low.
What's even worse for him is that such a low vote total in a sub-.500 season doesn't even get him enough juice to crack our overall top-500 these days. He'll have to pitch much better next season just to get his name in lights for future CPFers to see.