IGT 9/19/12 Phils @ Mets

[Edgy MD]

Jason Bay, defensive replacement.

Josh Edgin, closer.

Edgy DC, uncomfortable.

Jimmy Rollins, strikeout victim.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Nice start to the inning, as Edgin's slider screws Rollins into the dirt, trying to check his swing.

[Edgy MD]

Gameday has Ty Wigginton's name under Juan Pierre's photo.

Phunny.

[Edgy MD]

That's II!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Wigginton makes like Pierre, minus the contact-- he's down on three swings, the last on another rude, tilting slider.

[Edgy MD]

Fartbreaking.

[Guest Kong76]

Everyone who knew the HR was coming say yay.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Dammit.

[bmfc1]

Are you fucking kidding? Is there any joy left for Mets fans? We can't even win when the starter gives up one pitch. Why the fuck do we endure this?

[Frayed Knot]

Frayed Knot wrote: Gotta get one (or more) of these runners in here.

As I was saying.

[Met Hunter]

Serves ya right to anyone that continues to watch this. Its like still watching the Titanic after its 50 below the ocean.

[bmfc1]

And fuck you Shorty for putting Edgin in that situation Rauch has been great the last two months, you piece of shit. Lefty/righty who gives a fuck other than a brain dead old timer with no feel for the game.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Papelbon is coming in. We got this.

[Edgy MD]

Three runs on three hits.

Growf.

[Frayed Knot]

I had no problem with using Edgin there.
With 4 straight* LHBs coming up I would have made the same call.



* Rollins is switch but hits much better these days from the left side

[Edgy MD]

bmfc1 wrote: And fuck you Shorty for putting Edgin in that situation Rauch has been great the last two months, you piece of shit.

I think it was a perfectly justifiable decision given the choices also.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: I had no problem with using Edgin there. With 3 straight* LHBs coming up I would have made the same call. * Rollins is switch but hits much better these days from the left side

Same here-- Utley and Howard both do much poorer, career-wise, against fastball-slider lefties (see: Feliciano). Good process, bad results.

AND 'Spin gets jobbed... and run.

[Frayed Knot]

Do I even need to mention that Jeter walked tonight on a ball six inches closer to the plate than the one Valdespin just got wrung up on?
No I don't, do I?

[bmfc1]

Of course Brown makes a great catch. If it was Bay, it would have just gone off his glove.

Should Shorty have come out to tell the ump he missed the call and defend his player?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Not only are we giving/coughing up games, we're giving/coughing up games to a desperate, playoff-chasing Phils team. We're keeping their postseason dreams on life support.

[Frayed Knot]

If you want someone(s) to blame this on put it, as usual, on the offense
9 hits + 3 walks + a HBP + 2 SBs has to equal more than 2 runs, especially when one of the runs came via one swing of the bat.
And, aside from that Brown play there in the 9th, it's not like the Phillies were playing amazing defense either.

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Not only are we giving/coughing up games, we're giving/coughing up games to a desperate, playoff-chasing Phils team. We're keeping their postseason dreams on life support.

Well it's only fair seeing as how we're keeping the desperate dreams of the Brewers alive too, and that we're contributing to the dreams of the division title for the Braves, and to the dreams of their first ever title for the Nationals.
And then next week we can do the same for the Pirates.

We're an equal opportunity looser.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

There's no fucking accountability in this club, because they all know Fred won't eat a contract.

I wonder how worried Sandy is about the current state of the Mets (that is provided he's still aware which club he's at.) It's not he has to worry about job security or anything. Like I (and some others here have said) Moneyball is archaic and never had any success in the first place.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

Well, maybe less reluctant to than others, but he ate the last years of Perez's and Castillo's contracts. That's a $20 million (or so) sandwich.

Do you really think the continued presence of Bay in the clubhouse helped make tonight's loss happen? Or is it Terry's continued employment to which you refer?

[Guest The Second Spitter]

I was referring to everybody from the GM down. (see my above edit)

[Frayed Knot]

The Second Spitter wrote: There's no fucking accountability in this club, because they all know Fred won't eat a contract.

I know we're all pissed off here, but this doesn't even remotely make sense.

- Is there any doubt that virtually everyone on this team right now is playing for a starting job and/or a contract next year?
The individual situations differ, but isn't Bay trying not to get cut loose and see his career end in shambles?; aren't Ike & Duda essentially fighting for the same position?; or Dickey & Wright for possible extensions?; or Hairston for a more substantial role?; or Murphy, or Turner, or Torres, or any and all of the catchers to win or save starting jobs?

- and considering that Fred has eaten large portions of the contracts of two of the last three managers prior to this one, plus authorized over $20mil worth of dead wood in Perez & Castillo just one winter ago, exactly how does anyone on either side of the dugout rail get the notion that they're bullet-proof no matter what they do or how they perform?

[Edgy MD]

The Second Spitter wrote: I was referring to everybody from the GM down. (see my above edit)

I would disagree with both halves of your added comment about Moneyball also. I don't think folks even agree with what "Moneyball" means, except being smart and confident enough to question and test assumptions, which I'd say has certainly worked since time immemorial, though doesn't always pay off directly for the smart and bold ones.

[Edgy MD]

"It was up -- middle up," Edgin said about the fateful pitch to Howard. "That's what he's paid to do. He's a big guy, paid to hit home runs. I give him a meatball, so he's going to do it."

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Frayed Knot wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: There's no fucking accountability in this club, because they all know Fred won't eat a contract. I know we're all pissed off here, but this doesn't even remotely make sense. - Is there any doubt that virtually everyone on this team right now is playing for a starting job and/or a contract next year? The individual situations differ, but isn't Bay trying not to get cut loose and see his career end in shambles?; aren't Ike & Duda essentially fighting for the same position?; or Dickey & Wright for possible extensions?; or Hairston for a more substantial role?; or Murphy, or Turner, or Torres, or any and all of the catchers to win or save starting jobs? - and considering that Fred has eaten large portions of the contracts of two of the last three managers prior to this one, plus authorized over $20mil worth of dead wood in Perez & Castillo just one winter ago, exactly how does anyone on either side of the dugout rail get the notion that they're bullet-proof no matter what they do or how they perform?

My issue isn't with the player personnel or the roster, per se. The point I was trying to make is that the front office staff have to be as accountable for this debacle as TC and the players. Given that Alderson was previously working for the Commissioner's Office, the same Commissioner's office that made all those friendly loans to Mets that prevented the club going the same way as the Dodgers, I don't think Fred's gonna be in a hurry to chop-off the hand that fed him when his situation was most dire. If you disagree with this fine.

Edgy DC wrote: I would disagree with both halves of your added comment about Moneyball also. I don't think folks even agree with what "Moneyball" means, except being smart and confident enough to question and test assumptions, which I'd say has certainly worked since time immemorial, though doesn't always pay off directly for the smart and bold ones.

I'm always wary of blindly following a dogma. In a nutshell, Moneyball is about exploiting asymmetric information in the baseball labor market. However, the economic models which it is based on predict a return to the status quo in the long-run because in baseball terms, every team now uses the same criteria (more or less) for their drafting/trading/FA decisions. So unless you can exploit other statistics, it's a frivolous pursuit.

It's clear from what Paul DeMensa has said over the last year that they are adhering to this philosophy. So they are either using (a) different, unproven metrics (I'll take a wild guess that BABIP is one of them) ( the previous metrics with minimal benefit or © ownership is intervening in their decision-making process which is impacting on (a) or (.

[Fman99]

I watched the whole thing. And I laughed when ol' Nostril Face went yard, at the absurdity of it and also the total "saw it coming"-a-tude of it. At this point in the season, it's hard for me to get that worked up about one more loss.