Mets All Time Team

[stevejrogers]

G-Fafif wrote: Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs.

SS and 3B as well as Beltran in the OF are obvious.

Gil to Davey, Lenny to Cleon and Franco to Tug are clearly a case of fan voting being overridden.

I wonder how much of an upset it was considered for Franco to get the nod.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Come on guys, this is pretty good work.

Tell me Straw isn't wasted.

Is that the guy who did the "Bandwagon Rolls into Philly" cartoon?

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Come on guys, this is pretty good work.

Not suggesting that they're bad. Just that Stark was among the best in the biz.

[stevejrogers]

Was the 40th the only other time the Mets dabbled with doing an "official" All-Time team?

FWIW tonight, 6/21, SNY is airing the event from the 17th that unveiled the team from 7-9.

Also on Monday from 6:30-7 SNY is re-airing their Top 50 Mets that they aired back in late May. Something I also wonder if it is the first time the Mets dabbled in doing such a ranking on an official level.

BTW, that 40th anniversary squad was revealed at Shea, with a snazzy card set giveaway by Fleer. Kind of disappointing that they didn't approach Topps to do the same with the 50th anniversary squad. Well, that I know of so far.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I missed the beginning of the show. I'm sure they'll be replaying it a few times in the future. Would have liked to see Hernandez and Fonzie. All of the players were great, especially Cleon. Looks like Seaver was sampling his product prior to the show.

[stevejrogers]

The committee made some interesting nominations:

1B Keith Hernandez
Dave Kingman, Ed Kranepool, John Olerud

2B Edgardo Alfonzo
Wally Backman, Doug Flynn, Felix Millan

3B David Wright
Hubie Brooks, Howard Johnson, Robin Ventura

SS Jose Reyes
Bud Harrelson, Rey Ordonez, Rafael Santana

LF Cleon Jones
Cliff Floyd, George Foster, Kevin McReynolds

CF Carlos Beltran
Tommie Agee, Lenny Dykstra, Mookie Wilson

RF Darryl Strawberry
Bobby Bonilla, Rusty Staub, Ron Swoboda

C Mike Piazza
Gary Carter, Jerry Grote, Todd Hundley

RHP Starter Tom Seaver
David Cone, Ron Darling, Dwight Gooden

LHP Starter Jerry Koosman
Sid Fernandez, Al Leiter, Jon Matlack

RHP Reliever Roger McDowell
Neil Allen, Armando Benitez, Skip Lockwood

LHP Reliever Tug McGraw
John Franco, Randy Myers, Jesse Orosco

Manager Davey Johnson
Gil Hodges, Casey Stengel, Bobby Valentine

[ashie62]

Hey! They remembered Skip Lockwood.

[G-Fafif]

Extending the All-Time Team into the All-Time Roster.

[HahnSolo]

The Seaver caricature looks more like Roger Clemens than The Franchise.

[Vic Sage]

G-Fafif wrote: Extending the All-Time Team into the All-Time Roster.

you missed Wayne Garrett for the bench.

[Edgy MD]

I like how he constructed it. It's different than the way me mostly have --- by selecting our second-best all-time players at each position to round out the bench, five number one starters to round out the rotation, five relief aces for the pen. I could quibble here and there, but the notion of Terry Leach vs. Pat Mahomes vs. Harry Parker for "Best Swing-Man" is a discusion worth having.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I thought that the committee's selection of Tug McGraw as best LHRelP was the most inspired one. But it also angered me because I had failed to use qualitative factors when I chose my all time team in another thread here. I chose Franco -- but only grudgingly, I admitted, because he never struck as a special reliever. He more or less accumulated large counting stats as a Met because he was here too damn long, and I use the word "long" pejoratively. Had I went with qualitative factors, I might have chosen Orosco, but Tug's not a bad choice at all, and the arguments for Tug are compelling.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I thought that the committee's selection of Tug McGraw as best LHRelP was the most inspired one. But it also angered me because I had failed to use qualitative factors when I chose my all time team in another thread here. I chose Franco -- but only grudgingly, I admitted, because he never struck as a special reliever. He more or less accumulated large counting stats as a Met because he was here too damn long, and I use the word "long" pejoratively. Had I went with qualitative factors, I might have chosen Orosco, but Tug's not a bad choice at all, and the arguments for Tug are compelling.

Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17268&hilit=franco

[G-Fafif]

Garrett among those strongly considered. Lost out to Youngblood in that "good enough to start, usually not trusted by management" role for versatility (Joel IF-OF and capble of catching, even) and the desire for a righty bat with a little pop.

[G-Fafif]

When the results were announced, I thought, "you mean you don't have to select Franco? I thought it was required."

[stevejrogers]

SNY/Citi's list of the Top 50 Greatest Mets:

1. Tom Seaver 2. Dwight Gooden 3. Keith Hernandez 4. Jerry Koosman 5. Darryl Strawberry
6. Mike Piazza 7. Carlos Beltran 8. David Wright 9. Jose Reyes 10. Gary Carter

11. Cleon Jones 12. Ron Darling 13. Edgardo Alfonzo 14. John Franco 15. Mookie Wilson
16. David Cone 17. Al Leiter 18. Jerry Grote 19. Howard Johnson 20. Bud Harrelson

21. Tommie Agee 22. Rusty Staub 23. Sid Fernandez 24. Jon Matlack 25. Jesse Orosco
26. Tug McGraw 27. Lenny Dykstra 28. Johan Santana 29. John Olerud 30. Todd Hundley

31. Robin Ventura 32. Lee Mazzilli 33. Felix Millan 34. Kevin McReynolds 35. Carlos Delgado
36. Ed Kranepool 37. Bob Ojeda 38. Frank Viola 39. Dave Kingman 40. Ron Swoboda

41. John Stearns 42. Wally Backman 43. Rick Reed 44. Roger McDowell 45. Hubie Brooks
46. Ray Knight 47. Ron Hunt 48. John Milner 49. Bobby Bonilla 50. Wayne Garrett

[stevejrogers]

I find it interesting that on the All Time Team McGraw was selected, but in the Top 50 Ranking both Orosco and Franco are ahead of him.

Also not making the cut out of the ranks of the All-Time Team's nominees:
2B Doug Flynn
SS Rey Ordonez, Rafael Santana
LF Cliff Floyd, George Foster
LHP Reliever Randy Myers
RHP Reliever the whole ballot of Armando Benitez, Neil Allen and Skip Lockwood

Some obviously wouldn't, and shouldn't, belong on a Top 50 Mets list, it's just interesting to see them in the running at the positions and not making the Top 50 rankings.

[stevejrogers]

G-Fafif wrote: Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs.

Doing some digging, I'd thought I'd share some interesting things with both the 40th and 50th ballots themselves.

1st, 2nd, Catcher, Skipper and all 4 pitchers were unchanged, while Wright and Reyes replaced Ed Charles and Kevin Elster off of the 3B and SS ballots respectively.

Because the Outfield was all-inclusive fans had to choose three out of 12 candidates. Going to combine the lists anyway. On the 40th but not 50th: Dave Kingman, Willie Mays, Lee Mazzilli. On the 50th but not the 40th: Carlos Beltran, Bobby Bonilla, Cliff Floyd.

And here are the candidates whom fans could choose two pinch hitters off of, where Krane and Rusty got selected to the squad.:
Bruce Boisclair Mark Carreon Matt Franco Ed Kranepool
Lenny Harris Ron Hodges Lee Mazzilli Rusty Staub