Thoughts on Terry Collins

[metirish]

I've really grown to like Terry a lot , he seems like the perfect man for this team and seems to have changed the thinking around the place. No more talk of threading water until so and so pitcher/hitter comes back, the guys that replaced them need to produce. The players seems to really like playing for him and he seems to genuinely care about them.

Thoughts?

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: No more talk of threading water until so and so pitcher/hitter comes back, the guys that replaced them need to produce. The players seems to really like playing for him and he seems to genuinely care about them.

I think there's a decent amount of value in this, in the accountability.

As far as some of the more 'in the game' moments, I think he's average, but that's probably fine. Or maybe it's just because he's coming in after the worst manager in Mets history. I'd quibble with a couple of his bullpen priorities and his infatuation with platoon matchups, but overall i think he's doing an okay job.

I'll sum it up with a Collins like quote: "He's a baseball manager"

[batmagadanleadoff]

I just had this conversation with a friend of mine the other day. Collins has grown on me this season in a good way more than any other Met. Though he's no Johnson or Bobby V. And that talk about having to be proud to put on the uniform gave me some bad Dallas Green flashbacks. (Are there any other kind of Dallas Green flashbacks)?

[metirish]

I think we could quibble about every managers in game stuff, obviously some are worse than others, Collins does seem streets ahead of the previous ones.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I voted other. I'm lukewarm on him. He's okay.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Or maybe it's just because he's coming in after the worst manager in Mets history.

Here's my personal list of the five worst Mets managers that I saw:

Worst - Dallas Green (a moron and an asshole)
Next - Willie Randolph ( a moron and a half)
3d - Jeff Torborg
4th - (tie) Art Howe; Jerry Manuel

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Or maybe it's just because he's coming in after the worst manager in Mets history. Here's my personal list of the five worst Mets managers that I saw: Worst - Dallas Green (a moron and an asshole) Next - Willie Randolph ( a moron and a half) 3d - Jeff Torborg 4th - (tie) Art Howe; Jerry Manuel

Mine's obviously a very small sample. Willie gets points for getting the Mets to the postseason, and i think he managed differently, and better, while there so that definitely bumped him up for me.

Valentine, Randolph, Howe, Manuel. I wasn't really following closely enough for Green, and everyone else I was too young for.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I still think he's a bit of strategic appointment for the organization, a kind of "turnaround specialist" who would not be here were the team not in a financial crisis, deep in low expectations, and in need of a someone who can make "playing the game the right way" and "believing in the guys we have here" as credible as possible while the guys behind the curtain execute the financial restructuring. It's all working out as planned on that front.

Game-managing wise, I'm only okay on him. And while he's getting a lot of credit for the magic that's happening now, his downfall will come once the expectations heighten and the "magic" wears off. By then, the org can look to a "winner" type to get the rest of the way.

That's why I find all this "extend him NOW!!!!" talk is a little unrealistic.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That's why I find all this "extend him NOW!!!!" talk is a little unrealistic.

yeah, no on that. I never worry about a managers contract, no reason to get locked in.

I think it also helped that Collins had a year here, knew the organization, specifically the minor leaguers. So now when he gets these guys called up, he knows them a little.

[Edgy MD]

I like him and I liked him when he was the field coordinator. He was the best minor league field coordinator, whatever the hell that means, the Mets have ever had.

That said, if the Mets are giving out extensions, Terry's about 17th on my list.

[metirish]

This is the first I have heard about extending Terry......not a priority, agree with Bucket there , although I think this front office would not appoint a person radically different than Terry if it came to that, a so called free thinker(whatever that means) like Joe Madden doesn't strike me as an Alderson type......

[MFS62]

I voted "other".
Seems to be a good leader for whom players really hustle.
But I wish he'd lose that Tony LaRussa book on ritualistic pitching changes.

Later

[bmfc1]

We were told that he is an excitable boy but for the most part he has been reserved. He seems to be a strong leader and has the respect of the team. Sadly, he is a bad in-game manager, making changes and bunting when "the book" says he should.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: This is the first I have heard about extending Terry......not a priority, agree with Bucket there , although I think this front office would not appoint a person radically different than Terry if it came to that, a so called free thinker(whatever that means) like Joe Madden doesn't strike me as an Alderson type......

people mention it on Twitter occasionally. Not real people mind you, but the sentiment is out there and it's only a matter of time before some of the national writers or beat guys start talking about it. Managers often get credit for perceived over-performance.

[Ceetar]

bmfc1 wrote: We were told that he is an excitable boy but for the most part he has been reserved. He seems to be a strong leader and has the respect of the team. Sadly, he is a bad in-game manager, making changes and bunting when "the book" says he should.

I'll say this though, my favorite thing about Terry is that he's not afraid to say he was wrong, and adjust. He free admits to making a ton of mistakes in previous managerial stints and this attitude always leaves me with the feeling that if presented with enough evidence he'll make a needed change. Some of the comments he made this Spring Training revolved around fixing up some of the stuff that went wrong last year and I think the added shifting and the seemingly better pitcher bunts and such seem to be born out of that adjustment.

[TransMonk]

I thought he did a great job last season and is doing even better now. I question some of his on the field decisions, but I think any manager is going to be questioned. I question him less than Willie or Jerry. I think mentally he has this team showing the confidence to win when his predecessors did not.

I agree with Bucket that he is only here because of the situation the team is in, but he is making the most of it.

After the 5-13 start in 2011, the Mets played .500 ball the rest of the season...and they are 8 games over through a third of the season this year. That puts him at .500 through 216 games in his Mets career as of today. I expected less than that and I think he is doing a fine job given what he has to work with.

[Guest sharpie]

I like him and had a good feeling about him the first time I heard him speak.

I don't find myself in situations where I think my guy is going to be out-managed by the other guy which had been the case for the previous three managers.

I have to vote Torborg as my least favorite Met manager. Dallas Green gets a few points for badmouthing George Steinbrenner and his in-game managing wasn't terrible. Torborg managed to do everything badly and was a jerk besides.

[Vic Sage]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Or maybe it's just because he's coming in after the worst manager in Mets history. Here's my personal list of the five worst Mets managers that I saw: Worst - Dallas Green (a moron and an asshole) Next - Willie Randolph ( a moron and a half) 3d - Jeff Torborg 4th - (tie) Art Howe; Jerry Manuel Mine's obviously a very small sample. Willie gets points for getting the Mets to the postseason, and i think he managed differently, and better, while there so that definitely bumped him up for me. Valentine, Randolph, Howe, Manuel. I wasn't really following closely enough for Green, and everyone else I was too young for.

Valentine? VALENTINE? he's the top of your "worst Mets managers"? Wow.
At first, i wanted you to explain that. but you know, i just don't think i want to hear it. Reading the tortured logic behind that assertion would be a bad way to start a work week.

[Edgy MD]

I think ceetar just rated best to worst among managers that appeared on his watch.

[Ceetar]

yeah, I'd said Manuel was the worst manager ever above so I figured the order was obvious.

[Vic Sage]

[u:2f1ix2xc]Best Mets managers:[/u:2f1ix2xc]
Davey Johnson
Gil Hodges
Bobby Valentine
Yogi Berra
Casey Stengel

[u:2f1ix2xc]Worst Mets managers:[/u:2f1ix2xc]
Dallas Green
Art Howe
Jerry Manuel
Jeff Torborg
Willie Randolph

[u:2f1ix2xc]mediocrities:[/u:2f1ix2xc]
Terry Collins
Joe Torre
George Bamberger
Wes Westrum
Joe Frazier

[u:2f1ix2xc]incompletes (less-than-full season):[/u:2f1ix2xc]
Buddy Harrelson
Frank Howard
Roy McMillan
Salty Parker
Mike Cubbage

[Guest sharpie]

Bud Harrelson managed 274 Met games. He doesn't get an incomplete. He goes in the mediocrities column and an argument can be made that he goes in the worst column.

[Vic Sage]

true, and i had listed him that way originally (in the mediocrities list; i couldn't in good conscience put him on the "worst" list). It's just that he only managed PARTS of 2 seasons, and was never given the opportunity to manage one entire season from beginning to end, and that was the criteria i was using. plus this way i get 4 neat lists of 5 managers each to satisfy my anal list-making compulsion.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Willie DID take a team to within a game of the World Series, and a (painful) second place finish.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'll never know why since Wayne Coffey shelved the book and made millions writing with Red-carpet Appearances Dickey instead but at some point the team stopped responding to Willie late in that '06 season and never tuned him back in. I hated that he was so paranoid and defensive and churlish, maybe that was it.

[Guest sharpie]

Vic, you could do 5 lists of 4 adding a mediocre-to-good and mediocre-to-bad list.

[Theoldmole]

Wes Westrum was a terrible manager.

I didn't have serious problems with either Jerry or Willie. I thought they both did decent jobs. You can't compare them to Art Howe or Dallas Green.

Too early to rate Terry Collins. I voted "other" -- was OK with him, still OK with him.

I agree with Vic's five best.

[Theoldmole]

And I'd put George Bamberger down on the worst list too. He was hired as a great teacher of pitchers, and the Mets' pitchers never performed worse than under Bambi.

[Edgy MD]

I thought you liked Wes. It's through you that I learned the key fact that he had no take sign because take was the default until you got a sign that it was OK to swing.

That lone fact feeds me like 75% of my perception of Wes Westrum.

[ashie62]

Terry is long on something I do not have..patience.