All-Time Team

[Edgy MD]

Part of the 50th anniversary festivities will apparently be the coronation of a new All-Time Mets Team.

The wrinkle is that it's not happening on the field, despite it being in-season, but at a SNY sponsored event at the 92nd Street Y.

Mat Cerrone says ticks are already sold. In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Here's my team. Most of these selections are no-brainers, I'd say. I assume that the team will be comprised of one LF'er, one CF'er and one RF'er. As a fan, I'd wish that Orosco, or if not him, than Tug, would make the team as lefty reliever.

C Mike Piazza
1B Keith Hernandez
2B Edgardo Alfonzo
3B David Wright
SS Jose Reyes
LF Cleon Jones
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Darryl Strawberry
RHP Tom Seaver
LHP Jerry Koosman
LRlf John Franco (but grudgingly)
RRlf Armando Benitez

[Vic Sage]

we used to have a thread like this every year or so --
this one looks about right.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can't quibble with that list.

I notice that of the 12 players, only five won a World Series with the Mets; three 69ers and two 86ers. (And there are four others who lost a World Series with the Mets, all in 2000.)

The remaining three came very close to a World Series in 2006.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting. Quibble away.

C Jerry Grote
1B John Olerud
2B Wally Backman
3B Howard Johnson
SS Bud Harrelson
LF Kevin McReynolds
CF Mookie Wilson
RF Rusty Staub
RHP Dwight Gooden
LHP Jon Matlack (I would've went with Al Leiter, but JCL's song parody suddenly dissuaded me. Fuck You Al, and your sending away Kazmir ways and your buddying up with the Wilpons. And Fuck George Bush II, too)
RrlfP Roger McDowell
LRlfP Jesse Orosco

[metsmarathon]

hmm, i wonder what kind of roster our rankings project would turn out.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Here's my team. Most of these selections are no-brainers, I'd say. I assume that the team will be comprised of one LF'er, one CF'er and one RF'er. As a fan, I'd wish that Orosco, or if not him, than Tug, would make the team as lefty reliever. LRlf John Franco (but grudgingly)

But the case for Orosco:

Orosco 595.2 IP/12.2 Mets WAR = 1 win above replacement every 48.8 IP
Franco 702.2 IP/12.8 Mets WAR = 1 win above replacement every 54.9 IP

Though Franco was a Met for almost twice as many seasons as Orosco (14-8), Franco's Mets IP exceeded Orosco's by only 18%.
Orosco's '83 campaign (3d place, CY voting) was the best single season pitching performance by a Mets reliever.
Franco "saved" more games per season than Orosco because Orosco's pen mate, Roger McDowell was about as reliable as Jesse, not because Franco was significantly better than Orosco. In fact, I'd say that Orosco was the better lefty reliever.

And one more opinion: Jesse's brilliance in the 1986 WS MVP award was good enough to cop the MVP trophy. Knight had the dramatic hits, but Orosco was untouchable. He was the series' unsung hero.

[G-Fafif]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting.

If the First Team is to be presented at the 92nd Street Y, where would the Second Team be introduced? The 92nd Street Z?

[Guest themetfairy]

I just bought tix so I can take D-Dad there for Father's Day.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after.

Actually (in the hope that Jose would take wing home for one day) I checked and time of game is TBD, which perhaps is a formality or perhaps ESPN will want to show the sexy Marlins playing the perennial postseason participating Rays on Sunday Night Baseball, which is only wacky until you think about it.

The Mets are not investing in a proper Old Timers Day this year, so wow, one really does have to look to the 92nd Street Y on a Sunday night for this. Father's Day Night, for all you Mets fan celebrating birthdays.

[Edgy MD]

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy DC wrote: In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after. Actually (in the hope that Jose would take wing home for one day) I checked and time of game is TBD...

Truly, we suffer the same illness.

[smg58]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting. Quibble away. C Jerry Grote 1B John Olerud 2B Wally Backman 3B Howard Johnson SS Bud Harrelson LF Kevin McReynolds CF Mookie Wilson RF Rusty Staub RHP Dwight Gooden LHP Jon Matlack (I would've went with Al Leiter, but JCL's song parody suddenly dissuaded me. Fuck You Al, and your sending away Kazmir ways and your buddying up with the Wilpons. And Fuck George Bush II, too) RrlfP Roger McDowell LRlfP Jesse Orosco

Grote over Carter?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Grote has longevity. Carter has 1985.

[metsmarathon]

grote, 13.0 WAR in 4335 plate appearances

carter, 11.2 in 2448 plate appearances (6.7 in 1985 alone)

edit: wait! where do you put stearns, 18.5 WAR in 3081 plate appearances? 11th all-time among metly WAR for position players, and left off the 2nd team! good heavens!

Edited December 20, 2011 by Guest

[Vic Sage]

Um, Carter has 86, too.
but i won't argue with your choice, despite the fact that Grote at his best wasn't the overall player that Carter was, even at the end. Grote had 69, 73 and overall superior Metliness.

[HahnSolo]

Can't really argue with Batmag selections. Sentimentally I'd like to see Tug in there. It also floors me a bit that Wally Backman could be the Mets second-best-ever second basemen, but no one else immediately springs to mind.

[Edgy MD]

Felix Millan, Ron Hunt, and Ken Boswell are certainly in the picture.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Grote over Carter was my toughest pick. Like Vic wrote, I think I was going for overall Metliness when I chose Grote. I leaned towards Grote's time here. There's no doubt that Carter's peak or best Metness was better than Grote's. That and perhaps, I was overcompensating for what I consider to be Carter's overratedness. Not that Carter wasn't an historically important Met, or a Mets Hall of Fame Met. Because he deservedly was. But as good a Met as Carter was, or as great a Met as he was, I always though that the perception was far greater than the reality.

[Frayed Knot]

metsmarathon wrote: hmm, i wonder what kind of roster our rankings project would turn out.

For all the complaints about it, pretty darn close to the emerging consensus in this thread. The obvious exception is this site's namesake being so high which in turn brings up the age-old longevity vs shorter but better peak question. Other than him I think only Sid hadn't been mentioned.

1st TEAM
C - Mike Piazza
1B - Eddie Kranepool
2B - Edgardo Alfonzo
3B - David Wright
SS - Jose Reyes
LF - Cleon Jones
CF - Carlos Beltran
RF - Darryl Strawberry
RHSP - Tom Seaver
LHSP Jerry Koosman
RRfl - Armando Benitez
LRfl - John Franco

2nd TAM
C - Jerry Grote
1B - Keith Hernandez
2B - Jeff Kent
3B - Howard Johnson
SS - Bud Harrelson
LF - Kevin McReynolds
CF - Mookie Wilson
RF - Rusty Staub
RHSP - Dwight Gooden
LHSP - Sid Fernandez
RRfl - Roger McDowell
LRfl - Tug McGraw



oe:
Lowest ranked players to reach this list: Roger McDowell & Jeff Kent (46th & 47th)
Highest ranked players squeezed out by position: Ron Darling and Jon Matlack (20th & 21st)

Edited December 20, 2011 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

BB-R.com WAR as a Met (Position Independent):
Backman: 9.6
Hunt: 7.8
Millan: 6.2
Boswell: 3.9

According to Baseball-Reference, Alfonzo gets a 29.1 WAR as a Met, including approximately 13.82 as a secondbaseman, 14.56 as a thirdbaseman, 0.63 as a shortstop, and 0.02 as a DH.

A fat lot to dismiss as a guy who "had a few good years, was about 5 years older then reported, and then got fat...."

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

[u:3mk1y3ik]Backman:[/u:3mk1y3ik] 9.6 rWAR/10.5 fWAR over parts of 9 seasons; grittiness unsurpassed; Metliness/Metly lovability at playing-days-Dykstra levels
[u:3mk1y3ik]Kent:[/u:3mk1y3ik] 8.1 rWAR/8.2 fWAR over parts of 5 seasons; grittiness limited and localized in his underpants; Metliness/Metly lovability at Coleman-minus-the-firecrackers levels

[smg58]

If you're going for overall Metliness over a couple great seasons, you'd have to put Kranepool at least ahead of Olerud.

I keep forgetting that Kent was here long enough and (sufficiently decent) to merit consideration.

[G-Fafif]

When Mets put together their 40th anniversary All-Amazin' team, they cleverly created space for two pinch-hitters, thus Eddie and Rusty got their due. It was a fan vote, and the fans did a fine job except for two positions.

C - Piazza
1B - Hernandez
2B - Alfonzo
SS - Harrelson
3B - Johnson
OF - Strawberry
OF - Wilson
OF - Dykstra (whither Cleon?)
RHSP - Seaver
LHSP - Koosman
RHRP - McDowell (Armando allergy apparently)
LHRP - Franco
PH - Kranepool
PH - Staub
MGR - Hodges

[ashie62]

HahnSolo wrote: Can't really argue with Batmag selections. Sentimentally I'd like to see Tug in there. It also floors me a bit that Wally Backman could be the Mets second-best-ever second basemen, but no one else immediately springs to mind.

Millan