KTE: Pittsburgh PIris

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

n3Z7PWl7RaI

You can't depend on superstition
Pirates are 24-27; Mets are 24-28
Mets are 332-358 and 2 ties vs. Pittsburgh since '62. .
We were 6-1 last year, with the only loss being a 2-1, complete game Santana loss.

You can't depend on your teacher
Pirates are managed by X-Met Clint Hurdle, against whom we're 34-20 lifetime.
X-Met Ray Searage is their pitching coach and the only other x-factor.

You can't rely on mother nature
Will be hot with a chance of t-storms thru Wednesday

You can't depend on your doctor
C Ryan Doumit turned an ankle yesterday and 3B Steve Pearce (himself an injury replacement) left a game with a sore calf this weekend; Pirates expected to make callups prior to gametime.
Also on the DL Ps Joe Beimel; Michael Crotta, Kevin Hart, Ross Olendorf; 3b Pedro Alvarez

You can't depend on your paycheck
Pirates payroll a little less than $100 million less than the Mets'. Their highest paid players are Paul Maholm and C Chris Snyder, who earn $5.75 M each.

Never Stop You
Pirates are scoring even fewer runs than the Mets, but CF Andrew McCutcheon is a nice player having a good year, with Garrett Jones and Jose Tabata giving them a pretty good outfield overall. 2B Neil Walker has 6 dingers but is slumping. 1B Lyle Overbay looks close to done. Young 3B Pedro Alvarez was killing them but on the DL now. Matt Diaz is on their bench, otherwise, little depth.

Hey!
Prirates starters have gone nine straight games allowing 2 earned runs or less.
RHP Charlie Morton (5-2, 2.61) vs. Gee tonite
RHP James McDonald (3-3, 5.23) v. Dickey Tuesday
RHP Kevin Correia (7-4, 3.44) v. Capuano Wednesday
That's a pretty formidable threesome: Morton and McDonald were big-time prospects once; Correia like last year was one of the league's best pitchers through the first handful of starts. Pirates pitchers as a staff have the fewest whiffs in the NL, however.

You can't depend on your preacher
Joel Hanrahan is the closer and having an excellent year (14 saves, 1.52 ERA) and he's getting set-up help from righties Chris Respo and Daniel McCutchon, also doing well. Beimel was their Loogy, lefty Daniel Moskos is the guy now.

Like a Rock
Both teams struggle offensively and have required good pitching to survive. Sorry for this rush job, please add other stuff!

[Guest themetfairy]

Nicely done Lunchie!

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

AWESOME!!

[ashie62]

Pufffect.

[Edgy MD]

Caught them two weeks ago vs. the Nats. They were platooning all over the field. Matt Diaz was batting .100 and batting cleanup! Six weeks into the season!

When the Nats pulled their lefty starter for a righty reliever, they pretty much emptied the bench by the seventh to regain the platoon advantage. Their pen looked shallow also. Get to them early if you can.

Ronny Paulino is an ex-Bucco. They trade a lot with the Nats.

Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides has earned $260.4 million in overseas markets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ever the pitch man:


The most celebrated and sought after baseball card:


Audacious uniforms that spoke to their time and place better, perhaps, than any other uniform in the history of baseball. Freaky Cool classics. Loud and brash. For a loud decade and a brash team


BadAss.




Bad Asshole.


SuperBad Asshole


Cover photography by someone you might know


I read this book in elementary school. Clemente tripled for the Pirates only hit in the first Mets game I ever attended.


Me and the Mets and the Pirates and Memorial Day go way back. In 1976, I saw the Pirates play two at Shea on Memorial Day. I saw Ron Hodges hit a homer. Anybody else ever see that, live? On TV? Anywhere?

That same year, I picked up a copy of this 1976 Pirates yearbook, which is in one of my many boxes of baseball stuff. When I was younger, a family friend would occasionally invite me to a baseball game along with his family, knowing what a big baseball fan I was. I always accepted his invitation even though they were Yankee fans and my fanaticism for the sport didn't exactly transfer over to the team in the Bronx. For me, the highlight of those visits to Yankee Stadium was a trip to a baseball souvenir store nearby that sold the yearbooks of every other MLB team, an astonishing treasure trove of a find in the pre-internet 1970's. I'd pick up a yearbook at each of those games.


Maybe one of our forum photographers can tell us how SI shot this pic?


Here's what I'm currently reading in 2011. It's tedious and bloated and I can't wait to finish the damn thing already only because I'm closer to the end than to the beginning. The cover features a classic photo of the 1960 World Series from a unique vantage




Which logo do you prefer? Modern fierce or vintage friendly?



You shoulda seen what his wife was wearing.


The best stadium in MLB, according to many:


Sadly, Willie Stargell passed away the day before PNC's inaugural opening day:



Scenes from The Odd Couple motion picture were shot at Shea Stadium during a Mets/Pirates game.


What's with the mask, Dave? Who did that to your face?


Linked forever:


One day, I'm gonna have me one of these:


Trivia:

Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frank Taveras
Junior Ortiz

[batmagadanleadoff]

A flashback to perhaps, the last time the Mets and Pirates were simultaneously relevant:


Baseball; A Rooky Lefty Helps Pirates Sweep the Mets
By JOSEPH DURSO, Special to The New York Times
Published: September 7, 1990

PITTSBURGH, Sept. 6� Valera Falters Early

Tomlin far outlasted Julio Valera, the 21-year-old rookie selected by the Mets to pitch them into the homestretch of the pennant race while established stars like Ron Darling watched from the bullpen. But Valera, making his second start in a week, was knocked out in the third inning and the Mets did not survive. ''You don't score runs, it doesn't matter,'' said Bud Harrelson, the manager of the Mets. ''I still think we can win. What can I do now? Pray a lot more, I guess.'' ''We did the best we could,'' said Howard Johnson. ''It's not the end of the world. There's still time.'' But the Mets were clearly shocked at the turn of events this week. Tim Teufel put it this way: ''Our fundamentals broke down. We didn't hang in there. We saw our offense at its lowest point, and that flowed over into other parts of our game.'' Succession of Troubles For the Mets, this was what Harrelson calls ''reality,'' life in the thick of a pennant race with high stakes and low results. And the reality of the situation was that Harrelson's Mets were reeling from one disaster to another while time was running out. The Pirates pounced on Valera tonight from the start, rocked him with two runs in the first inning and three in the third, and ended his second game in the big leagues after 57 pitches. The Mets, meanwhile, were watching or waving at a full repertory of breaking balls, sizzling fastballs and offspeed pitches slung at them by Tomlin with a sweeping sidearm delivery that seemed to come from somewhere out near first base. For four innings, the Mets didn't even get a hit. Four of them even struck out, including honchos like Darryl Strawberry, Johnson and Teufel. They seemed as powerless against the rookie left-hander as they had been in their three previous losses against established left-handers. ''I don't know what it is,'' Miller said. ''When we see a left-hander, it's not that we think: ''Oh, no, not another one of those.' That's the weird thing about it.'' Weird or not, the Mets were muzzled one more time by one more left-hander while the Pirates pounced on the right-handed Valera. Pirates Attack Quickly Wally Backman opened the home half of the first by hitting a high chop near second base, and he beat it out for a single when Tommy Herr's hurried throw pulled Teufel off the bag. Jay Bell drew a walk, and the omens were there. Next came Andy Van Slyke, who pulled a sharp grounder to the right side that Herr bobbled for an error, and now the Mets' rookie was surrounded by the ultimate problem: bases loaded, nobody out, Bobby Bonilla and Barry Bonds swinging bats. He coped with the danger nobly for a moment when Bonilla grounded into a double play. But one run crossed, and another quickly followed when Bonds singled deep to the left side of the diving backhand of Johnson. Valera kept peace for one more inning, but in the third he faced five batters, got none of them out and was gone. Van Slyke led the charge with a double to left-center. Bonilla doubled down the left-field line, and the toll rose to 3-0. Bonds was safe in a photo finish on a grounder wide of first base. Sid Bream lined a single to right for another run. Jeff King drilled a single to left for yet another. And Harrelson walked slowly to the mound to rescue his rookie pitcher.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/07/sports/baseball-a-rooky-lefty-helps-pirates-sweep-the-mets.html?scp=1&sq=mets+valera+pirates&st=nyt


Harrelson: His Own Man?
By JOE SEXTON
Published: March 11, 1991

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla.� BUD HARRELSON does not appear alone in the photograph on the cover of the team's 1991 information guide, although he is not joined by any current member of the Mets or their front office. Instead, he is accompanied, basically, by a ghost, for it is a faded, grainy reproduction of the late Gil Hodges's profile that is peering over Harrelson's left shoulder. It is an odd, if not an outright strange, touch. Harrelson, as well, does not have the only locker in his office here at the team's spring training complex. Doc Edwards, the dugout coach, has a stall right next to Harrelson's, and he can often be found alone in the office, smoking a cigarette and reading the newspaper. It is a peculiar, if not entirely inexplicable, arrangement. "Some people don't like to eat alone," said one longtime and respected regular for the Mets. "Maybe Buddy doesn't like to manage alone." The wisecrack, of course, could be interpreted as a cheap shot. And the presence of Hodges in the photograph and Edwards in the office could amount to nothing substantially more than a self-deprecating style on Harrelson's part. But the crack actually has its origins in a longstanding and widespread clubhouse curiosity, one that for more than a couple of players has deepened into an open cynicism about Harrelson's independence as a baseball thinker and field manager. As a result, one of the spring's dominant and explosive questions for the Mets is this: Is Bud Harrelson his own man? It is a question asked by players, speculated about by those outside the team and dismissed disdainfully by Harrelson himself. "It's important for him to have a grip on the clubhouse," said Ron Darling, the pitcher with more years of service with the team than any other current player on the Mets. "But that has to be nurtured." Harrelson's grip appears at best partial as he begins his first full season directing the Mets, a contingent famous in recent years for its underachievement on the field and bellyaching in the locker room and newspapers. There are corners of the clubhouse suspicious of Harrelson's tactical soundness as a manager, convinced that he lacks all genius for the unorthodox or improvisational, as well as the kind of outsized personality that could by force of ego lift a team to exceptional levels of performance. This perspective, at its most savagely sarcastic, portrays Harrelson as an acquiescent tool of the front office. To this contingent, Harrelson's recent rethinking of the lineup he had spent the off season devising amounted to a retreat from his first major strategic decision of the spring. There are, however, numerous players nearly defiant in their support of Harrelson. They consider him immensely dedicated and sufficiently communicative, as well as absolutely entitled to a full year to craft his personal stamp and then apply it. To this collection, Harrelson's willingness to consider adapting his lineup according to the preferencess of individual players reflect his skills as a diplomat and open-minded manager. "You're always going to have second-guessers, and you are always going to have guys who will say good things regardless," said Howard Johnson, the Mets' shortstop, who has returned Harrelson's reliance on him with a public faith in his manager. "I consider him a players' manager. And any players griping or questioning him behind his back should spend more time worrying about themselves." Harrelson's own position is that he hasn't himself spent many minutes agonizing over the perceptions and politics of his clubhouse. He was skeptical of a reporter's claims as to the scope and seriousness of the doubts concerning him. And he pointed to the effort and enthusiasm of the spring training workouts to date as evidence that whatever grousing did exist was irrelevant to the product he was going to produce come April. "I'm an organization man," Harrelson said while overseeing infield drills one day last week. "I think that's a strength. What I see more than anything else this spring are guys going the extra mile. I don't remember it being that way." There are players, though, who can't forget the way it was last season, and the most bothersome images are of Harrelson, who had just one complete year of minor-league managing before taking over last May, repeatedly turning to Edwards, who had managed Cleveland for almost two seasons, in the course of a game for advice and direction, provoking doubts among some players about who was making the critical decisions. Those questions have manifested themselves most sinisterly in Barry Lyons's angry understanding of the roots of his demise with the Mets. Lyons, who began last season as the No. 1 catcher for the Mets before injuring his back and then being sent to the minors for good, said in an emotional and profane outburst here Friday that he believed Edwards was behind his demotion and then departure to the Dodgers. When asked about accusations from various Mets that Edwards's input was far too great to be too healthy, Lyons said bluntly, "I've heard that." Harrelson will hear none of it. He argued with animation but not anger that he relied quite significantly on his entire coaching staff for information, experience and advice, and that he considered that both proper and intelligent. "What am I supposed to be, the expert on every single category?" Harrelson asked. "Of course, I'm going to make all the final decisions, but I have people to remind me of things. I doubt that I'm getting too much advice. All managers lean on their people. Otherwise, what are they there for? To be figureheads?" A figurehead of sorts, though, is what certain Mets firmly believe Harrelson is, his appointment of a piece with the front office's self-styled cleaning out of the clubhouse. Davey Johnson is gone, Darryl Strawberry is gone, Bob Ojeda is gone and Kevin Elster is poised for an exit. "I don't put any stock in that," Frank Cashen, the general manager of the Mets, said of the theory that he had installed Harrelson to have easier access to the manager and more direct control of the team. "His appointment wasn't to satisfy any organization or individual aims. It was to win. This year will be more of an example of what Bud Harrelson is. He's going to be his own man." But what kind of manager is that? Harrelson last season was a strategically conventional manager, one all but doctrinaire in his allegiance to "the book" and "the numbers." It led to debatable pitching changes, difficult to fathom pinch-hit assignments and a confusion in the clubhouse that bordered on the anarchic. The September promotion of Julio Valera, a prospect who endured a nightmarish start in a pivotal contest against the Pirates, was seen by many Mets as either a huge tactical blunder by Harrelson or an example of his willingness to obediently accede to the desires of management. Harrelson's record of 71-49 after taking over for the dismissed Johnson profited from the rampage the Mets went on in June and early July, a binge of 27 triumphs in 33 games. Apart from that sequence, the Mets were only 44-43 under Harrelson. Interestingly, or maybe tellingly, the Mets from the All-Star Game break on were 14-25 in games decided by one or two runs. "My style is more basic than anything else," Harrelson said. "I'm not Whitey Herzog. I'm not Tommy Lasorda. I'm not Davey Johnson. But I've been around the game long enough to understand that the game is mostly made up of standard situations, some creative additions and pure guts. And I think your guts get better the more you manage. And the public acceptance of those guts gets better." Harrelson is at once a persuasively personable and acutely defensive personality, his relations with New York reporters characterized by a polite, but frequently strained neutrality. He perpetually answers questions by turning them around on reporters, and is prone to sizing up issues and people as either "positive" or "negative." "The game, the manager's job, it will harden you," Darling said. "I think Buddy has become harder. There is so much pressure for the manager to be right all the time that they begin to believe they are." Harrelson certainly is convinced that there was a lot wrong with the Mets of recent seasons. He said he had been aghast at the sorry state of the team's fundamentals and left red-faced by its behavior off the field. He said it would change, and that he would not bother to be tender about the transformation process. There is already talk among the players of Harrelson electronically locking off the televisions in the Shea Stadium clubhouse at the start of games and altering the menu of food available to the players. "It's my privilege to change things," Harrelson said. "We did a lot of things that weren't classy, that weren't professional, attitudes off the field that I was embarrassed by. "As for on the field, we faced ball clubs all the time that were not as talented as us, but more sound, and that ended up kicking the stuffing out of us. How about us for once kicking some rearends because we do everything right?" Harrelson said he was braced for the size of the task and the potential resistance both open and clandestine he stands to be hit with. "There were a couple of weeks there last year that got tough," Harrelson said. "I found it consuming, and I got tired. I was a vegetable a lot with my brain. I got haggard. "But I'm going to be a lot less sensitive than I was last year. I felt the repercussions in the clubhouse, and it bothered me. I won't let it this year. All I can do is ask my players to give me 100 percent, for that's what I'm giving them. If we win, we will have won as a team. If we screw up, I'm going to get my rearend fired."

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/11/sports/harrelson-his-own-man.html?scp=4&sq=mets+valera+pirates&st=nyt

[batmagadanleadoff]

The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)

[Edgy MD]

Frank Thomas.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Batmags, that was really cool!

I've been to the remains of Forbes Field on the Pitt campus, and it is worth the trip when you are in town!

[batmagadanleadoff]

The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy)
______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)

[seawolf17]

I'm sensing a trend.

Frank Tanana(s).

[batmagadanleadoff]

seawolf17 wrote: I'm sensing a trend. Frank Tanana(s).

You're kidding, right? A starting pitcher has to stick with a team for about 10 years to get 250 starts.


The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy)
______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)
2. Frank Tanana (Seawolf)

[metirish]

Great job , glad I didn't do the KTE.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trivia:

Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates?

The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy)
______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)
2. Frank Tanana (Seawolf)

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Nice 1-2 from the JCL-BML tandem.

French fries don't belong on sammiches.

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: French fries don't belong on sammiches.

I'm with you on that one. I'm already on record as describing that sammich as "gimmicky schlock". But I've never been to Pittsburgh and never had that meal and from curiosity more than anything else, it's become one of my Moby Dicks.

[Edgy MD]

How many guys are left? I'll go with Clendennon and Foli.

[batmagadanleadoff]

And another thing or two:

It's too bad that Psychedlic Dock's LSD tablets weren't in his Mets bag-o-tricks:
_vUhSYLRw14


Here's where the Mets were when tragedy struck our nation:




The culmination to one of the greatest plays, and greatest games in Mets history:


Some modern Pirate Uni history:


The Charter Member of the Mets-Pirates 250/250 club:


One of the earliest Met killers; Friend was no friend of the Mets:


Is there an analogy here?


The Stargell statue at PNC Park. No other rival player evokes that time in my life when I first discovered baseball like Willie Stargell, a ferocious opponent at the height of his awesome skills in the early '70's.




One of the cleverest baseball t-shirts I ever did see:

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trivia:

Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates?

The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy)
3. Donn Clendenon (Edgy)
4. Tim Foli (Edgy)

______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)
2. Frank Tanana (Seawolf)

The 250 club list isn't even halfway filled in.

[Edgy MD]

I'm thinking firstbaseman/oufielder-type thoughts:
[list:2cgcb9wz][*:2cgcb9wz]Joe Orsulak[/*:m:2cgcb9wz]
[*:2cgcb9wz]John Milner[/*:m:2cgcb9wz]
[*:2cgcb9wz]Lee Mazzilli[/*:m:2cgcb9wz][/list:u:2cgcb9wz]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trivia:

Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates?

The 250 club

1. Frank Taveras (JCL)
2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy)
3. Donn Clendenon (Edgy)
4. Tim Foli (Edgy)
5. Joe Orsulak (Edgy)
6. John Milner (Edgy)
7. Lee Mazzilli (Edgy)

It's a three run-homer for Edgy. I didn't think anybody would get Orsulak.

______________

The 250 Club. Not.

1. Junior Ortiz (JCL)
2. Frank Tanana (Seawolf)

Keep on going....

[seawolf17]

Yes, I was kidding on Tanana. Riffing on the "Frank T"s.

[batmagadanleadoff]

seawolf17 wrote: Yes, I was kidding on Tanana. Riffing on the "Frank T"s.

I'm still marking your answer as wrong.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Day 2

Leading the league in cool t-shirts; "Hair-itage" , the Willie Stargell hair outline T-shirt:




All-Star Bobblehead. No. Really.


Bats and Balls. Enhancing the Pirate heritage.


Clemente, Thomas, Walls & Virdon




Honus Wagner


Ralph Kiner's Babes. Chicks do prefer the long ball.



Ralph Kiner's hands - PNC Park


Coming soon to PNC Park:
Bronze castings of Rick Reuschel's ass and the gap between Manny Sanguillen's two front teeth





Exposition Park 1891-1909


Forbes Field


Three Rivers Stadium


PNC Park


The troubled Rube Waddell was pitching for the Pirates when Connie Mack discovered him. Waddell was the Pirates first strikeout and ERA champ, leading the league in 1900 with 137 K's and a 2.37 ERA



Last call for the Louisville Colonels baseball team, eventually folded into the Pittsburgh Pirates. Honus Wagner and Rube Waddell appear in Louisville's last team picture









Dick Groat, batting champ 1960

[Edgy MD]

Trivia: Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates? The 250 club 1. Frank Taveras (JCL) 2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy) 3. Donn Clendenon (Edgy) 4. Tim Foli (Edgy) 5. Joe Orsulak (Edgy) 6. John Milner (Edgy) 7. Lee Mazzilli (Edgy) It's a three run-homer for Edgy. I didn't think anybody would get Orsulak.

I checked my answers after submitting them, and I thought they were all wrong, if only just.

Joe Orsulak: 274 hits with the Mets; 238 with the Pirates.
John Milner: 586 hits with the Mets; 248 with the Pirates.
Lee Mazzilli: 796 hits with the Mets; 176 with the Pirates.

Then I realized we were talking about games and not hits.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ralph really deserves a better statue!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Trivia: Who are the only MLB players to appear in at least 250 games for both the Mets and the Pirates? The 250 club 1. Frank Taveras (JCL) 2. Frank Thomas - The Charter Member (Edgy) 3. Donn Clendenon (Edgy) 4. Tim Foli (Edgy) 5. Joe Orsulak (Edgy) 6. John Milner (Edgy) 7. Lee Mazzilli (Edgy) It's a three run-homer for Edgy. I didn't think anybody would get Orsulak. I checked my answers after submitting them, and I thought they were all wrong, if only just. Joe Orsulak: 274 hits with the Mets; 238 with the Pirates. John Milner: 586 hits with the Mets; 248 with the Pirates. Lee Mazzilli: 796 hits with the Mets; 176 with the Pirates. Then I realized we were talking about games and not hits.

There's a few more in that 250 club.