IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

[TransMonk]

Per Metsblog:

According to David Waldstein of the New York Times, �After he was done pitching, Blaine Boyer went into the clubhouse and, in an act born more of pragmatism than anger, shaved off his beard, leaving just a small goatee.�

[Frayed Knot]

According to David Waldstein of the New York Times, �After he was done pitching, Blaine Boyer went into the clubhouse and, in an act born more of pragmatism than anger, shaved off his beard, leaving just a small goatee.�

An act which I'm going to assume left several birds suddenly homeless.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: These concerns about Ks have been concerns for years, so I still expect him to have a similar year to last year. And the greater concern of a career ERA of 4.41 --- his great first half last year included --- leads one to return to it.

You could say inflated by being promoted a bit early, but I'm more concerned with his road splits than a career ERA. Pelfrey would actually be a legitimate Ace if he developed a good out pitch that he could trust and raised his K/9 rate to over 7. At this though, i'm not holding my breath. Especially with Warthen, who at least did teach him another pitch last year, but apparently either not one that gets Ks, or now how to use it to get them.

[Ceetar]

I didn't think Boyer pitched that badly. not good, but Victorino got a dumb luck double, and that deflection off of Boyer for a run was pretty much placed in the perfect spot to get no outs.

[metirish]

Well , it was entertaining to say the least , this game had it all , poor pitching, poor defense , good pitching , big comeback , everything except the win.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Tracksuit's game recount this morning suggested some issues with pitch-calling from Thole. He noted Pelf got beat on curves early despite him feeling he had a good splitter. Thole says that mixing it up was successful in spring training (really?) and didn't want the hitters sitting on his fastball. Also, that Pelf prefers to take signs as opposed to shaking off.

Pelf obviously lost it on the bunt play when he f'ed up Thole's directions, hard not to draw a dotted line to frustration with pitch-calling also.

[metirish]

One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Mets have had green catchers before. Like with Mike Fitzgerald. What they need is for Keith Hernandez to take the elevator down from the press level and walk under the councurse to the gate and over to the mound in game situations to discuss pitch sequences.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: The Mets have had green catchers before. Like with Mike Fitzgerald. What they need is for Keith Hernandez to take the elevator down from the press level and walk under the councurse to the gate and over to the mound in game situations to discuss pitch sequences.

Was just thrown out there as an aside, but Keith stated that he was in the clubhouse talking to Pagan before the game, and he mentioned that he was going down again today to talk to..I don't remember who.

I found that interesting, and oddly involved, although it did sound like he was there as an analyst and not a second hitting coach. He was talking about Pagan's stance and what he was doing with his shoulder and how it was indictive of him slumping, noting that he was in the clubhouse and that Pagan and Hudgens were aware of it and were working on it.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: Was just thrown out there as an aside, but Keith stated that he was in the clubhouse talking to Pagan before the game, and he mentioned that he was going down again today to talk to..I don't remember who.

Wright. About the Ks...IIRC.

[bmfc1]

metirish wrote: One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right?

Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up.

[Gwreck]

bmfc1 wrote: Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up.

Well said. I also doubt Wright told Pelfrey to throw to the wrong base (let alone throwing it into RF).

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

bmfc1 wrote: metirish wrote: One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right? Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up.

He didn't call him out. Read the article.

[bmfc1]

JCL: I didn't say that Pelfrey "called him out", I said "mention"... there was no need at all for him to mention Thole. Thole isn't a 10-year vet. He's a kid who is a starting catcher on a NY team and, in my opinion, he didn't need to hear his name mentioned by the pitcher that gave up seven runs.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That's OK, I'll post it for you. Geez.

PHILADELPHIA - Mike Pelfrey offered Shane Victorino two curveballs in the first inning Wednesday night, and the Phillies leadoff man launched the second one to deep center for a triple. The assault had begun, and Pelfrey fell with his best bullets unfired. "Two of the first five pitches were curveballs, and I can't do that," Pelfrey said. "That's not my game. I've got to use the fastball, and use the split." The Mets' troubled No. 1 dropped his second start of the season, allowing seven runs in two-plus innings and seeing his early-season ERA inflate to 15.63. The Mets were able to charge all the way back to tie the game, but lost, 10-7, when Blaine Boyer allowed the Phils to retake the lead on a night Ryan Howard went 4-for-4 and fell a triple short of the cycle. Pelfrey blamed pitch selection, but stopped before directly criticizing catcher Josh Thole. "I was awful," he said. "I screwed around too much - too many sliders and too many curveballs." Pelfrey's ideal style is simple: fastballs and splitters. His offspeed options are so-so, but Thole felt that it was important to offer the Phillies a varied menu early, so they did not sit on the fastball. "We had success in spring training mixing pitches," Thole said. "With this kind of a lineup, we just can't keep attacking with a fastball. By the same token, we probably threw a few too many (curveballs and sliders)." Pelfrey strongly agreed with the latter sentiment. "A lot of times, I fell behind with my third- or fourth-best pitches," he said. "I got beat a lot of times with those pitches, instead of getting beat with my fastball and my split. I only threw three splits tonight, and I thought my split was pretty good." So why did he employ that questionable approach? "Ultimately, it's on me," Pelfrey said, meaning that a pitcher can shake off any sign. But Pelfrey prefers to receive a sign, nod and throw. A developing catcher such as Thole presents different challenges than Henry Blanco, the veteran who often caught Pelfrey last year. Pelfrey's series of unfortunate events included one non-pitching moment. With one out in the second and Pete Orr on first, Phils starter Joe Blanton popped up a bunt attempt. Pelfrey prepared to catch the ball, but David Wright yelled, "Let it go, drop it," in order to retire Blanton at first and then Orr at second. Pelfrey followed instructions, but rather than throwing to first, he spiked the ball into the grass. It rolled past Ike Davis as Blanton went to second, and Orr to third, and Pelfrey was left to shake his arms and curse. "The throw was way off line," Pelfrey said, shaking his head and returning to an already-used adjective. "It was awful." Down 7-2 in the fifth, seven consecutive Mets reached base against Blanton, with Daniel Murphy finally tying the game on an RBI single to left off reliever Antonio Bastardo (1-0). Angel Pagan had put the Mets on the board an inning earlier with a two-run homer to center. In the bottom of the fifth, the Phils retook the lead on RBI singles by Placido Polanco and Howard. Ben Francisco's solo homer in the sixth capped the scoring. Pelfrey denied that his confidence was shaken after two batterings, and his friends in the clubhouse agreed. As upset as Pelfrey looked while cursing and licking his hands and collapsing on the dugout bench to assess the carnage, his issue seemed more practical than mental; a battery relatively new to one another could not lock into a seamless collaboration. "We couldn't get in the right counts to use the fastball," Thole said. Or they should have used it more. Or they didn't use it at the right times. Whatever the cause, it was, as Pelfrey would say, truly awful. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2011/04/06/2011-04-06_mike_pelfrey_shelled_again_and_mets_comeback_goes_for_naught_in_107_loss_to_phil.html#ixzz1IqfwEA9H

[bmfc1]

If you think that Pelfrey spoke properly, fine. I disagree. At the two minute mark, after saying "it's on me" he says "I didn't shake him." "Him" is Thole who didn't have to be mentioned.
http://www.metsblog.com/2011/04/07/recap-pelfreys-post-game-talk-with-reporters/

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It probably wasn't a GREAT move to raise the issue of pitch-calling versus pitch-selection, but I don't see it as all that damaging.
Call it something of a "C+" media handling job by Pelf. Which beats the living Jake out of the "F" he laid on the mound last night.

[G-Fafif]

Per the Man from A.D.A.M.:

Collins spoke with Josh Thole and Mike Pelfrey after Pelfrey openly questioned pitch selection following the start. The manager's message to Thole was to keep those things in-house. "I wanted to make sure the discussions were with Mike and not you guys," Collins told reporters. Collins added that he does not worry about pitch selection. "I get caught up in location," he said.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Yeah, location was a bit of an issue. Not pitching to Ryan Howard's wheelhouse, f'r instance, might have been a good start.

Over the last three years, Howard has slugged .541, good for 6th best in the league. But if you look at where he does the most damage, Howard slugs .623 when pulling the ball, .820 when hitting the ball to center, and 1.051 when going the other way. Last year, Howard slugged .920 on balls the other way, .721 when hitting to center, and .586 when pulling the ball... In the first inning, Pelfrey started Howard off with a sinker low and away in the strike zone. Howard promptly crushed the ball to left center for a double and would later be driven in by Raul Ibanez, pushing the Phillies to a 2-0 lead. Howard led off the 3rd inning against Pelfrey. Down 3-0 already, Pelfrey (or catcher Josh Thole) decided to start Howard off with a curveball, low and middle of the plate. Pelfrey kept the ball in the strike zone and low and behold, Howard hit a home run to dead center field. 4-0 Phillies. The Phillies would go on to score three more runs that inning, chasing Pelfrey early for his second straight start.

His Pelfishness did the same with Ibanez, who has similar numbers middle-away, and drilled two middle-away pitches (one FB, one breaking ball) to left for hits.

Boyer, who hasn't pitched much to Howard before, might've been excused for pitching him away first. But he wasn't the one doing it. And Thole called his pitches, too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'll be honest, I don't know what to do with those numbers.

For instant, a guy could strike out nine times on inside pitches, but if he pulls one of them around the pole, he's slugging 4.000 on pitches he pulls, but .400 on inside pitches. Which is more meaningful? How does that inform your pitch choices?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Strike-zone-split contact numbers would help there. I do remember seeing contact-rate/BABIP numbers showing pronounced decreases middle-in as opposed to middle-away. Looking now.

Either way, IIRC, Howard chases off the plate outside when you start inside. His Z-contact numbers are generally pretty consistent in the zone-- he's good at hitting strikes. So, presuming his contact rates are roughly equal for all strikes... if he doesn't do much slugging damage to right, and tends to smack outside strikes harder, why would you EVER throw him stuff there-- much less start him off there, sequencing-wise-- that isn't on the black?