Barry Bonds

[G-Fafif]

Ed Kranepool was Charlie Sexton but endures like Charlie Parker.

[G-Fafif]

Johnny Bench = Jimi Hendrix, changing the game with every lick.

Joe Morgan = Bob Dylan, a genius in his prime who became impossible to understand.

Pete Rose = Jim Morrison, irresistible to many, viewed by others as obscene.

[G-Fafif]

Tom Seaver, therefore, must be Clapton.

[TransMonk]

metirish wrote: ...let's be honest here , most anyone I knew who liked the Pixies were chancers , upper middle class poofters really...

What did you just call me?

[TransMonk]

Doc = Jimi?

[Guest sharpie]

Cal Ripken is the Grateful Dead, playing on and on and on.

[seawolf17]

Reggie Jackson is Aerosmith; long-term success, affiliated with lots of teams/genres (classic rock, hair metal, pop), became a caricature of themselves after a while.

Jose Canseco is Bon Jovi; stars who can draw a crowd, but there isn't a whole lot of depth there.

[metirish]

TransMonk wrote: metirish wrote: ...let's be honest here , most anyone I knew who liked the Pixies were chancers , upper middle class poofters really... What did you just call me?

Don't forget this is Ireland, an entirely different class of poofter.

Canseco is Marky Mark without the post steroids success.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Rafael Palmiero = Milli Vanilli

He appeared to be good, and had great hair! Then, discovered!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Canseco made a real popular impact, but hasn't shown much by way of staying power. Bon Jovi may make shallow pop-rock, but they've shown legs.

I nominate Poison for the Canseco comparison. Or, if you're feeling REAL charitable... Guns and Roses.

And Mike Scott's Milli Vanilli.

[seawolf17]

GNR had some depth. You're right; Canseco's Poison.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: And Mike Scott's Milli Vanilli.

Brilliant on so many levels.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Number 6 wrote: Ruth is generally considered to be the greatest of all time, the Beatles of batsmen.

Because the Editor didn't do his job, I'll do it for him; Cricket terminology and jargon is to be avoided on baseball fora.


Everybody forgot --

Kenny Rogers = Kenny Rogers - a journeyman from the South who found some success in the Country/western demographic but not in New York and in the end his career overstayed its welcome. Didn't really leave enough on the plate before he retired.

[MFS62]

Jackie Robinson was Nat "King" Cole, who broke down his own color barriers to become the first Black person to host a network TV show.

Later

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Candy Cummings = the Sex Pistols

Both have dubious claims on revolutionizing their fields, leading to their over-estimation. Good, but not all that remarkable.

On a related note:

Abner Doubleday = Bill Haley and the Comets

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Good call on Cummings. Only the Pistols' first record is still, in retrospect, pretty fucking good, so this might overrate CC/underrate Lydon et. al.

And hey-- at least Bill Haley actually played music.

Tony Conigliaro/Mark Fidrych = T. Rex?

Bill Lee = Jonathan Richman?

Steve Garvey = Van Halen

[metirish]

Did I read correctly that they are measuring Bond's balls in the court proceedings?

[Frayed Knot]

Alan Freed = Commissioner K. M. Landis

[MFS62]

Scott Boras = Barry Gordy - lots of talent under control.

Later

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Some pretty embarrassing testimony at the trial of B.A.R.R.Y. by the ex-mistress --
- Couldn't get it up.
- Family jewels shrunk
- Hair fell-out
- Bad-case of back acne.

(This could be cue for Sherman or Murray Chass to write another Piazza bacne article)

[Frayed Knot]

Having the prosecution put the scorned woman up on the witness stand during your federal trial for lying ... hate when that happens.

[HahnSolo]

I have not been following the case closely, for those that are, any thoughts on the outcome?

To me, from the little I've gleaned from the coverage, the government's case doesn't seem so open and shut. I imagine that Anderson not testifying for the prosecution hurt their case, but really Kimberly Bell? Yeah, her testimony was kind of embarassing to Bonds, but helping to prove a case of perjury?

[Guest Edgy DC]

"Gee-I-Am-Buy-ing great stuff from Greg Anderson."

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Given the unconventional delivery methods of both "the cream" and "the clear", it would not be unreasonable for somebody to believe they were getting something other than steroids. It's not like they were getting jabbed up the butt with a syringe (I'm not saying B.A.R.R.Y. didn't, but that's yet to come out).

To put it in other words, it you asked me for something that wouldn't trigger a positive test and I gave you some drops to put under your tongue, would you believe I was giving you steroids? (I"m not directing the question specifically at you, Edgy, but to the group, in general). "The clear" may not have even been on any WADA list at the relevant time.

On the other hand, "the clear" has the nastiest of nasty side-effects and any reasonable person would have cause to doubt something wasn't kosher (although the purpose of "the cream" was to alleviated some of these side-effects). However, there's stuff out there that produces bad side-effects that isn't banned. Conversely, Deca, which is a banned substance (what Giambi was taking before Anderson put him onto the "good stuff") has negligible side-effects.

[Ceetar]

The whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. It's like if you told me you had a headache everytime we met, and i gave you medicine. (plenty of people use it, don't worry, it's safe. no big deal) You could love the stuff and think it works great and even talk about the 'pain meds' Ceetar gave you that work so well without me ever using the word Codeine.

Is it so far fetched that they keep the details of the makeup of the drugs from Bonds? It just seems to be a waste of time to fight over this.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Ceetar wrote: Is it so far fetched that they keep the details of the makeup of the drugs from Bonds? It just seems to be a waste of time to fight over this.

No it isn't. Firstly, "the cream" is not a steroid, per se. Secondly, according to Jeremy Giambi's testimony, Anderson described "the clear" as an alternative to steroids. "The clear" is THG which is a chemically altered anabolic steriod, but it's clearly a steroid (pun intended).

My point is that Anderson dispensed it as a liquid to be taken orally. In those days, it was unheard of for a steroid to be taken by mouth in such small quantities.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: Is it so far fetched that they keep the details of the makeup of the drugs from Bonds? It just seems to be a waste of time to fight over this.

Bonds was apparently a fanatic about diet and fitness during his time with the Giants, with lifestyle-support-- nutritionists, rotating in-house chefs, and the like-- on his payroll. The point isn't that ONE might reasonably neglect to obtain information about the "medicine" he was ingesting... it's whether it's reasonable to allow that BONDS did. What he claimed is tantamount to a person with Asperger's who is absolutely obsessive-compulsive about timekeeping claiming that they forgot to set an alarm one day as an alibi.

And yes, this is a gigantic waste of time and money.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: Is it so far fetched that they keep the details of the makeup of the drugs from Bonds? It just seems to be a waste of time to fight over this. Bonds was apparently a fanatic about diet and fitness during his time with the Giants, with lifestyle-support-- nutritionists, rotating in-house chefs, and the like-- on his payroll. The point isn't that ONE might reasonably neglect to obtain information about the "medicine" he was ingesting... it's whether it's reasonable to allow that BONDS did. What he claimed is tantamount to a person with Asperger's who is absolutely obsessive-compulsive about timekeeping claiming that they forgot to set an alarm one day as an alibi. And yes, this is a gigantic waste of time and money.

Drawing Asperger's comparisons is beyond me, I don't understand it well enough to extrapolate. But wouldn't it be similar to that person trusting something enough to be true, say the digital clock in the bathroom, that he himself did not set, but a trusted friend/advisor/trainer? He trusts it's the correct time through the proxy of trusting that person?

That's disease stuff though, I'm thinking more conspiracy angle. They purposely didn't discuss the exact details of what he was taking to allow for that plausable deniability. You see in in 24 all the time. "I'll take care of Bauer Mr. President. Don't you worry about a thing. As far as you know, he fled the country."

[Frayed Knot]

The reason I'm tending to the side of 'why bother' on this case is that all along it seemed like the Gummint (Novitsky et al) were more interested in landing the biggest names for the biggest pub (ie. athletes) than they were in dealing with the guys who were actually concocting the stuff in the first place. It's like they got so torqued off at Barry's arrogance and refusal to admit his share in "staining the game" that it far surpassed their interest in Victor Conte for creating the drugs and a whole distribution network. Once Conte was essentially sent away with a slap on the wrist I started to lose interest.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The gumming takes perjury seriously. Barry (it appears) could have cooperated and walked, but was more willing to be a perjurer in the eyes of the feds than be a cheater in the eyes of baseball.