2012 Hall of Fame Ballot (Prospective)

[nymr83]

my 2012 ballot: YES -- larkin, raines, bagwell BORDERLINE -- E.Martinez, Tramell, Walker CLOSE, BUT NO -- Morris, Lee, Murphy, McGriff NO -- Gonzo, BWilliams and every other newly elibigible player PEDs -- McGwire, Palmiero (my criteria: admission, positive test, Mitchell report, or other evidence, not mere rumors)

I up Trammell to the "yes" list and say no to Walker (as well as everyone you said no too), i really dont know if i want Edgar in there.

No to all the newly eligible players, the closest to me are Bernie Williams and Tim Salmon

Bolded who i would vote for below

2013: B. Bonds, R. Clemens, S. Sosa, M. Piazza, C. Biggio, C. Schilling, K. Lofton 2014: G. Maddux, T. Glavine, J. Kent, F. Thomas, M. Mussina, L. Gonzalez 2015: R. Johnson, P. Martinez, J. Smoltz, G. Sheffield, N. Garciaparra, C. Delgado

Guys like Lofton and Sheffield deserve consideration, but with those superstar classes they may have to wait. Are there also other guys who will build up on the ballot? (guys of the caliver of those who are currently waiting?)

Next year is the last chance in awhile for the current carry-over ballot I'd imagine, I think Larkin gets in easily and thats uiit

[G-Fafif]

I'm not expecting even as much as an Olerud/Leiter showing, but I hope Fonzie at least makes the ballot.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Eligible for 2012 first-time consideration: METS: Edgardo Alfonzo, Jeromy Burnitz, Danny Graves, Carl Everett, Matt Lawton, Jose Lima, Mike Remlinger, Scott Erickson DEMI-METS: Ruben Sierra (briefly a Norfolk Tide), Joe Randa (paper Met for six days), Eric Young (grew up a Mets fan) NOTABLE METS OPPONENTS: Javy Lopez, Mike Matheny, Tony Womack, Brian Jordan, Phil Nevin, Bill Mueller, Felix Rodriguez, Vinny Castilla, Tim Worrell, Jeff Fassero NOTABLE AMERICAN LEAGUERS: Tim Salmon, Brad Radke, Rick Helling BARRY STANTON'S BALLOT: Bernie Williams, Jeff Nelson

Nothing to see here. This group represents the best possible chance for those holdovers that just haven't garnered enough support to gain enshrinement in recent years.

[Vic Sage]

Gwreck wrote: To clarify: 1. Actually, I've been on record here numerous times that conclusive evidence (ie. failed test for PEDs once MLB implemented their testing program) is, in my opinion, sufficient reason to keep an otherwise-deserving player out of the Hall of Fame for those so inclined and have specifically cited Palmeiro as the obvious example. 2. You are correct that Sosa was reported by the NY Times to be on a list of positive steroids tests in 2003, at time when testing was done on an anonymous survey basis. You may recall that a Federal Court eventually ruled that the federal prosecutors who seized that information acted illegally. Sosa, of course, failed no such tests once baseball was doing so publicly and with penalties for those caught. 3. My personal belief is that the line-drawing re: PED users and hall of fame eligibility is misguided, but that's people's prerogative. My strongest objection is to what I believe to be specious logic when drawing those lines. I have no interest in a fight; just well-reasoned discussion (and debate).

Whether the information about Sosa was siezed illegally, or whether baseball was publically testing or penalizing anyone at the time, is utterly immaterial to the fact of Sosa's test results. This isn't a legal proceeding; its a vote to see if someone meets the criteria of the HOF which include sportsmanship, and other such trivialities. Voters are, and i am, entitled to take that information into account. And, when further put in the context of his "no hablo ingles" testimony in front of congress and the circumstantial data about his physical changes and late-career performance level increase, makes exclusion based on PEDs a rational conclusion. This is easily distinguishable from Bagwell, who has no failed test (as far as we know so far) or made any admission, or was even acused by others in Mitchell report.

you wanted me to "take a stand", so i took it.

I didn't like the tone you and MGIM decided to take with me. but i'm moving on... suggest you 2 do 2.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Well, we pretty well know that Sammy wasn't averse to taking liberties with the rules of fair play. Aside from his suspected PEDs use, there is the matter of his "cork" addiction.