A Tomato Thrower with the Tomato Growers

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Whatever yourself. I wrote the same thing you did and I get "whatever"? Give me a break. I'll rewrite my last post. [crossout]Whatever.[/crossout] But you're digressing. Because the issue you initially raised, I thought, was not what Minaya ought to have done but whether Perez's roster spot was justified. The back door politics that enabled Perez to remain on the 25 man roster for as long as he did is irrelevant.

That's certainly not what I what I wrote.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: Just got this from a person familiar with Ollie's winter-ball activity, since obviously velocity is more important than a scoreless-inning streak against Mexican Winter League batters. "Early velocties were 87-89, with an occasional 90 mph, all out of the pen. Starting velocity ... consistent 88 mph, but spikes are higher and more common. They are seeing occasional 91, 92." Did he really say that? Velocity is more important than a scoreless-inning streak? Sure Adam, I don't care if Ollie gets anyone out. if he throws 95 he can have a spot in the rotation no matter the result.

How he's throwing-- whether or not the fastball looks good, whether or not he's locating, whether or not the velocity's back at all-- is more important than the result, IOW. It's a fair sentiment (think Spring Training).

[Edgy MD]

And he made it clear that the issue was in part that it was a scoreless inning streak against Mexican League batters, and he wasn't so much opining on his own behalf, but speaking on behalf of what scouts, the Mets, and the questioner was concerned with.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: And he made it clear that the issue was in part that it was a scoreless inning streak against Mexican League batters, and he wasn't so much opining on his own behalf, but speaking on behalf of what scouts, the Mets, and the questioner was concerned with.

The fastball looking good, the changing speeds, setting up batters, etc. All more important than the velocity, and I think the K-rate and the swinging strike rate are more representative of whether he'll be successful again than a gun reading.

But if he's hitting spiking to 91-92, frequently, that does speak to building arm strength and getting up there more consistantly, something Warthen and Manuel rarely let him do. (pulling him early in spring training games even)

but Ollie's problem has always been consistency. can he repeat that d elivery to consistantly throw 92? Or is he goign to follow up a 80mph changeup with a poor throw that becomes an 88mph fastball and doesn't quite have the mph difference to be as effective?

Also, I've never seen a real answer to the question of what he's throwing. gameday and fangraphs and whatnot were classifying some of his 87ish pitches as cutters, and his 91ish as fastballs. is he tricking the system with bad mechanics? (which, if it's the case, makes me extremely skeptical of that data in any analysis at all) or is he actually trying to throw a different pitch?

[seawolf17]

By the way, when the hell was Aaron Sele a Met? I think you made that up.

[Edgy MD]

So, Ollie finished 3-3, 5.18 in 11 games (six starts) over 33 innings --- just bad enough to be dis-spiriting, but within the realm of rationalizing the overall numbers away and looking for hope between the numbers. If you need that.

Culiacan is in a seven game playoff series now, so we'll see if he gets another shot.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I hope I am wrong, but I have given up all hope of Oliver Perez ever again being a useful member of the Mets pitching staff. He hurt the team last season with his poor performance and compounded that by refusing to accept a minor league assignment to try to work on his arm strength and mechanics where it would not continue to hurt the Mets chances to win games.
With his poor performance and recalcitrant attitude, I believe he has made it all but impossible to trade him for anything of value. I say, give him a shot in spring training, if his performance isn't good a enough to warrant a roster spot , then admit your mistake and cut him lose (if he won't accept an assignment to Buffalo).

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: So, Ollie finished 3-3, 5.18 in 11 games (six starts) over 33 innings --- just bad enough to be dis-spiriting, but within the realm of rationalizing the overall numbers away and looking for hope between the numbers. If you need that. Culiacan is in a seven game playoff series now, so we'll see if he gets another shot.

Decent K rate as well.

Culican is up 3-0 with the 4th game tonight so maybe he'll make an apperance. if he pitches poorly, I'm sure Rubin will tweet it. Sounds like they're making the second round anyway.

[Ceetar]

Leadoff groundball double to left for Perez to Heber Gomez. Tim Raines (Did he go to Mexico when he didn't get to go to Cooperstown?) Jr bunts him over, sac fly for the run.

second inning features 2K, 2BB.

the Tomato's hit a grand slam and chase the opposing pitcher from the game. If Perez can get through five, he'll be the winning pitcher for the first round playoff clincher.

Third inning features another leadoff double to Heber Gomez, two line outs to CF, walk, passed ball, walk, K with the bases loaded to escape unscathed.

fourth inning, K, BB, single, out, K

That's 5K, 3H, and 5BB and 1 ER through 4IP.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Runs, no runs, whatever. That's a ridiculous 1:1 K:BB ratio. That's about what he's been putting up during his entire time there. That's the kind of ratio AJ Burnett makes light of over beers with his friends Scott Kazmir and Dice-K at T.G.I. BaseonBalls.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Runs, no runs, whatever. That's a ridiculous 1:1 K:BB ratio. That's about what he's been putting up during his entire time there. That's the kind of ratio AJ Burnett makes light of over beers with his friends Scott Kazmir and Dice-K at T.G.I. BaseonBalls.

Burnett's making more money though. I'm looking forward to him putting up those numbers for years.

Yeah, it's horribly ridiculous (he let up a walk and a hit in the 5th and was pulled btw, but I went to bed)

I don't know what to make of Winter Ball. I do like that he's striking out guys again, even if they are the Ruben Riveras of the world. But his walks seem to have even gotten worse.

I also have no idea about the strike zone or the defense there. he gave up a lead off double that was listed as a groundball to left. Did it slowly roll through a badly defended SS hole that wouldn't happen with Reyes there or did the LFer misplay it or something?

[Edgy MD]

Ollie back with the Tomateros in 2011

W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO	GO/AO	AVG
0	0	0.00	6	0	0	0	0	4.0	2	0	0	0	1	1	0.83	.143

Happy Thanksgiving, O-Town.

[Edgy MD]

Rubin wrote: In 17 relief appearances with Culiacan in Mexico, Oliver Perez has 0.00 ERA, 4 H, 7 BB, 15 K in 12 IP. Opponents hitting .103 (lefties .091).

[Ceetar]

This is a big part of why I don't follow him.

[Edgy MD]

Well, I was certainly following Ollie before Rubin gave that summary.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I was certainly following Ollie before Rubin gave that summary.

I expect Rubin will give AB by AB updates on Reyes through at least most of the season next year too.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ruby's getting real sour with his coverage lately. He doesn't need to affect a pissed-off posture just because the news he reports is bad.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ruby's getting real sour with his coverage lately. He doesn't need to affect a pissed-off posture just because the news he reports is bad.

Yeah, we're pissed off enough already.

[Edgy MD]

Ollie signs a minor league deal with the Mariners. Camp invite included. Still only 30.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That's why they traded Pineda to the MFYs.

[Fman99]

He will give up home runs, even in that park. BUM.