IGT 7/30/10 Mets vs. Slitherin - revenge sweep time

[bmfc1]

When do Mets pitchers start drilling the other teams? They're get hit and buzzed every night.

[ashie62]

If the Mets can't own Arizona on the road or at home this season is just noise from here on. Totally pathetic.

[Fman99]

Jerry, you are a moron. It was 2 out and the runner was on b/c of an error.[/quote:21o8jmki]

Yep. Dumb shit abounds.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah and if you guys saw Valdes giving up 4 runs before he got an out raise your hand.

Pelfrey had 118 pitches and his performance hardly earned him the benefit of the doubt. Geezus, he's lucky to be going out with a no-decision.

Now let's score some f'ing runs and stay in this race.

[bmfc1]

I didn't see Valdes screwing the pooch but I did think that it was a bad move at the time. Two outs, the runner was on because of an error and Pelfrey had just got the 2d out. Jerry should have let Pelfrey pitch to Kelly Johnson.

[Fman99]

I hope Aaron Heilman remembers how to take a big shit on the mound in a Mets game in New York.

[Fman99]

A hit!

If Castillo bunts here I will poop on this area rug in my living room.

[ashie62]

And for all this, Manuel could have been canned on Monday and maybe the Mets also have some willingness to take on salary. What a flippin joke.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Quick, someone get the number for Stanley Steamer for Fman, because you know Jerry is practically assured to go for a sac bunt.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

If we can't beat the Dbaggs, there';s no help on the trade market for us.

And as tempting as it is to kill Jerry for this, the fact that Pelfrey sucked again and Reyes again failed to make a play were much bigger factors tonight.

[Ceetar]

If we can't beat the Dbaggs, there';s no help on the trade market for us.

And as tempting as it is to kill Jerry for this, the fact that Pelfrey sucked again and Reyes again failed to make a play were much bigger factors tonight.[/quote:2xueyppj]


much bigger factors? Pelfrey didn't quite suck, he'd retired, sans error, 8 in a row, Reyes error was bad, but it was with the bases empty.

Valdes sucked is where the blame is, and then Manuel for sticking with a guy against a lefty that a. let up two singles and a home run, and b. is better against righties, is what the biggest cause of this loss was.

[Frayed Knot]

Yes, MUCH bigger factors.
As were the fact that we got what, 6 hits off this bad pitching staff and have now been shutout by a horrid Snakes' bullpen for like 10 straight innings at this point.

I'm not the biggest Jerry fan in the world either but he's starting to be used as a crutch to explain all NYM problems.
The players gotta play too.

[Fman99]

0-4 against these fucktards in 2010.

Zero. And. Four.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yeah. Let's all blame Jerry for the Mets giving up 9 runs to the D-Backs. It's so obvious that Pelf shoulda stayed in the game , being how goddamn dominant he was tonight and over the last four or five weeks, too. Me, I also blame Jerry for that Field Level plexiglass pane shattering. Let's not criticize Reyes, either. Reyes made a good error. That was a good error.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yeah. Let's all blame Jerry for the Mets giving up 9 runs to the D-Backs. It's so obvious that Pelf shoulda stayed in the game , being how goddamn dominant he was tonight and over the last four or five weeks, too. Me, I also blame Jerry for that Field Level plexiglass pane shattering. Let's not criticize Reyes, either. Reyes made a good error. That was a good error.[/quote:3ds7sxup]

Or even better: Why don't we blame Jerry for Reyes' error?

[Guest The Second Spitter]

I'm with you batmag - if we're apportioning blame for the current Metsian sucktitude I would give Jerry no more than 15%. He's an easy target for reasons that are far too obvious.

[Gwreck]

I want Jerry gone as much as the next person but this was Valdes sucking, not Jerry over-managing. And what a sucking it was. I'm sure there have been worse relief outings but this was as bad as I can remember.

Game also featured the longest David Wright homer I've ever seen. Was announced as 465 feet.

[Gwreck]

I hope that her call is played on Sports Center. Also, it would be nice if the Mets found the ball, got DW to sign it, and gave it to her.[/quote:2sgzrpvi]

Some douchebag ran out on to the batter's eye to pick up that ball (before getting tossed by security).

[bmfc1]

The Mets were winning until Jerry took out Pelfrey. Yes, Reyes made a critical error (that's 2 easy plays this week that he should have had), yes Castillo sucks, yes Francoeur sucks, and yes Valdes was horrible, but we don't know what would have happened if Jerry had left Pelfrey in for one more batter in favor of someone who had warmed up 4X already. None of this excuses the players but they scored 6 runs tonight and might--MIGHT--have won if Jerry had done nothing. It kills me when a manager interjects himself into the game unnecessarily. But both points co-exist: the team is mediocre and I'm not excusing them.

[batmagadanleadoff]

And you don't know if Pelfrey wouldn't have given up the same home run, either. And if you say that the home run that Pelfrey supposedly would've given up would've been no worse than the one that Valdes did give up, well that would be hindsight.

I haven't checked, but I suspect that Pelfrey, during his current streak of six straight bad starts, is pitching at a level that is statistically worse than any of six consecutive Ollie Perez starts.

None of this excuses the players but they scored 6 runs tonight and might--MIGHT--have won if Jerry had done nothing.[/quote:vbxvz9gh] They also might've won if they scored more runs. We should probably blame Jerry for that.

None of this excuses the players but they scored 6 runs tonight and might--MIGHT--have won if Jerry had done nothing. It kills me when a manager interjects himself into the game unnecessarily.[/quote:vbxvz9gh]

They were winning, but only by one run. Pelf was allowing about a run per inning -- an improvement over his last few starts, but not much to instill the kind of confidence that would warrant leaving him in. Maybe if Pelf was pitching a shutout, I'da left him in. Because then, the Mets woulda been winning 5-0 instead of 5-4. Pelf ain't no Jerry Koosman.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not that Pelfrey didn't stink, but I have no problem blaming Jerry. I'm bullpenned out. I can't see straight any more when he waves.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This forum is going to its agenda too often.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Obviously, then, you're against us.

[Ceetar]

Yeah. Let's all blame Jerry for the Mets giving up 9 runs to the D-Backs. It's so obvious that Pelf shoulda stayed in the game , being how goddamn dominant he was tonight and over the last four or five weeks, too. Me, I also blame Jerry for that Field Level plexiglass pane shattering. Let's not criticize Reyes, either. Reyes made a good error. That was a good error.[/quote:36dhrgq1]

These things don't exist in a vacuum. Yes, Reyes' error was bad (but on the scale of horribleness of errors behind a guy that, btw, hasn't given up an unearned run all season, 1-base errors with 2-outs is about as good as you can get) but so was Jerry's managing. One led more directly to the game getting out of hand. Jerry is more easily replaceable as well. You'd be hard pressed to upgrade Reyes. even upgrading the bullpen is an iffy prospect, as you're always going to have a guy that's just not going to have it that one day bring it in. Whether it's Valdes, or Frankie, or whoever. Gotta know how to manage them. Same with the offense. It's been horrible most of the year, but there are times when they've struggled and battled. Wright tried to carry the team last night. By doing things like sticking with relievers too long, using Ollie instead of Frankie, playing for one run by bunting, bringing the infield in early in games...these are things that fail. sometimes you're offense struggles but the team is good enough to scrape together 1 more run than the opposition. Even if that's 2-1. You want more runs, but sometimes you gotta win with what you have.

Jerry's not the cause of "all" the problems, but he just seems specifically wrong to manage a struggling team on the road. to manage a team that may play close games.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Pelfrey wasn't exactly having a great game, but he had settled down and was holding the Dbacks in check after his shaky first inning. Pelfrey had retired, I believe 7 of the last 8 batters he had faced when Jerry pulled him. The lone exception being Kennedy reaching on Reyes' error. So it wasn't like Pelfrey was suddenly struggling. I think he was just as likely to retire Johnson and end the inning as was Valdes.

I fault Manuel for seemingly always goes by the "book". I believe he replaced Pelfrey because Johnson was a lefthanded batter and he wanted to go by the book of lefty against lefty. I wonder if Manuel was aware that statistically there was no advantage to gain by the move since Johnson's average on the season is virtually identical against both lefties and righties, but his power numbers (HR rate and SLG) are significantly higher against left handers. I seriously doubt that Manuel (or Warthen) considered such stats before they simply made the automatic by the book move. My problem is that it is their job to know and consider such information before making a move.

I just don't have confidence in Manuel's ability to get the best out of this team.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This forum is going to its agenda too often.[/quote:1jph9qmy]

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If you're bringing in a guy to pitch specifically to the dangerous lefty, you might want to look at more than his handedness. Raul Valdes may be a good middle-relief piece to have, an okay last-resort pinch hitting option, and maybe even an okay emergency/spot starter... but he is no lefty-killer:

Righties vs. Valdes: 122 PA, 5 XBH, .214/.328/.291
Lefties vs. Valdes: 67 PA, 12 XBH, .348/.358/.636

[Guest Edgy DC]

This forum is going to its agenda too often.[/quote:hzhztdtr]
I've certainly lost perspective here. I imagine I'll recover. Hopefully after the mets do.

Think of my agenda as my Juan Nieve. Whatever effectiveness it had early, I've gone to it far too frequently, and like Jerry, I've rendered...

UGH! I'm doing it again!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yeah. Let's all blame Jerry for the Mets giving up 9 runs to the D-Backs. It's so obvious that Pelf shoulda stayed in the game , being how goddamn dominant he was tonight and over the last four or five weeks, too. Me, I also blame Jerry for that Field Level plexiglass pane shattering. Let's not criticize Reyes, either. Reyes made a good error. That was a good error.[/quote:3kaposd2]

1-base errors with 2-outs is about as good as you can get)[/quote:3kaposd2]

Jesus H. Christ. I make a snarky comment about how Reyes' error was a good error to mock all this scapegoating of Manuel and someone then actually follows up by characterizing Reyes' error as a good one to shift the blame on Jerry.

Pelfrey had thrown about 120 pitches, and was on the mound for more than 30 minutes in the top half of the first. There was nothing wrong with yanking him.

These things don't exist in a vacuum. Yes' date=' Reyes' error was bad (but on the scale of horribleness of errors behind a guy that, btw, hasn't given up an unearned run all season, 1-base errors with 2-outs is about as good as you can get) but so was Jerry's managing. One led more directly to the game getting out of hand. Jerry is more easily replaceable as well. You'd be hard pressed to upgrade Reyes. even upgrading the bullpen is an iffy prospect, as you're always going to have a guy that's just not going to have it that one day bring it in. Whether it's Valdes, or Frankie, or whoever. Gotta know how to manage them. Same with the offense. It's been horrible most of the year, but there are times when they've struggled and battled. Wright tried to carry the team last night. By doing things like sticking with relievers too long, using Ollie instead of Frankie, playing for one run by bunting, bringing the infield in early in games...these are things that fail. sometimes you're offense struggles but the team is good enough to scrape together 1 more run than the opposition. Even if that's 2-1. You want more runs, but sometimes you gotta win with what you have.

Jerry's not the cause of "all" the problems, but he just seems specifically wrong to manage a struggling team on the road. to manage a team that may play close games.[/quote:3kaposd2']

I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be saying that the pitching change was a tactical mistake because an all-star shortstop is harder to replace than a fair to middling manager. I could be mistaken.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Yeah. Let's all blame Jerry for the Mets giving up 9 runs to the D-Backs. It's so obvious that Pelf shoulda stayed in the game , being how goddamn dominant he was tonight and over the last four or five weeks, too. Me, I also blame Jerry for that Field Level plexiglass pane shattering. Let's not criticize Reyes, either. Reyes made a good error. That was a good error.[/quote:3i1w5fyw]

These things don't exist in a vacuum. Yes, Reyes' error was bad (but on the scale of horribleness of errors behind a guy that, btw, hasn't given up an unearned run all season, 1-base errors with 2-outs is about as good as you can get) but so was Jerry's managing. One led more directly to the game getting out of hand.... Wright tried to carry the team last night....[/quote:3i1w5fyw]

I don't think that Wright was trying to carry the team last night. I think that Wright was only trying to do the same he tries to do in every game -- have good at bats. And last night, Wright had good at bats.

But why give Wright any of the credit for the two homers he hit? All Wright did was hit them. But he couldn't of hit them if Manuel didn't decide to play Wright. And Wright couldn't have driven in five runs unless Jerry knew precisely where to put Wright in the batting order. And if Jerry mistakenly told Wright that last night's game was a road game, Wright would've been on an airplane to Phoenix when Jerry was making out the lineup ... Wright would not have gotten back to New York in time to hit those two home runs that Jerry, and only Jerry, made possible. So let's give Jerry all of the credit for Wright's home runs. Because without the two home runs that Jerry blasted, the score would've been 4-0 D-Backs when Pelf was removed, and then what would you complain about?