Three Catchers

[MFS62]

Here are their numbers A/O a few days ago:
Rod Barajas
230 ABs
.235 avg
.272 obp
11 HR
32 RBI
.698 OPS

Henry Blanco
74 ABs
.284 avg
.345 obp
2 HR
7 RBI
.764

Josh Thole
20 ABs
.500 avg
.565 obp
0 HR
5 RBI
1.115 OPS

What would you do?
Keep them?
If not, who goes?
Why?

Later

[metirish]

I think we are getting exactly what would have been expected from the catching position, send Thole back if all he is getting is a few AB's a week.

[Guest Edgy DC]

How does an offense-hungry team send down a guy hitting .500?

[metirish]

Edgy DC wrote: How does an offense-hungry team send down a guy hitting .500?

Makes no sense all right, they should start him every day then.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don;t mind Thole being up here especially because he's been hitting so well. I think he got here mainly because Blanco & Barajas were banged up but he's making it awfully hard to send him down and I hope they don't.

I also don't think they would sacrifice either B or B, so Thole hanging around would hafta be at the expense of another bench hitter or reliever if Jerry could, which he can't.

[TransMonk]

12 days to the deadline. I think they all have varying degrees of value, but value none-the-less.

If we're going to send one down (and popular opinion suggests it should not be Thole), then might as well trade him for what we can get.

Blanco and Barajas are somewhat redundant as far as I can see.

I'm not opposed to moving Thole in a trade either, if the value is there.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's certainly not popular opinion that puts Thole at the head of the demotion line, but available options.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Thole's a whole lotta offense out of the catcher position to send away... and he doesn't seem terrible with the tools, either. He and Blanco-- who has a surprisingly good idea of what he's doing at the plate (at least compared to Rod)-- make a nice backstop semi-platoon.

I would shop Barajas for peanuts, and see what I can get there. (Same with Ollie, whose freight you have to pay as a parting fee.) Moving him is the benefit; anything else you can get is bonus.

[Guest Edgy DC]

TransMonk wrote: Blanco and Barajas are somewhat redundant as far as I can see.

I'm also dubious about this. Blanco provides a dangerous arm and has use as a late-inning replacement. Barajas is a slugger in a deep dark slump.

They're redundant in their relative value I suppose, but they get there kind of differently.

[smg58]

I think Barajas is the guy you move. I'm not sure who's looking for a catcher, though.

[Frayed Knot]

- I don't believe Barajas or Blanco CAN be sent down so it's pointless to even treat that as an option.

- Trading one (or the other) of the B & B boys "for peanuts" just so as to be rid of him doesn't make much sense for a team supposedly in a pennant race. Both are useful ML catchers and suddenly getting caught short down the stretch due to an injury would be real stupid.

- Yes, Thole is hitting over .500 ... on a ridiculously small sample size. Do remember the .267 minor league hitter prior to that in your calculations.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: - I don't believe Barajas or Blanco CAN be sent down so it's pointless to even treat that as an option.

Not without their authorization, no.

- Trading one (or the other) of the B & B boys "for peanuts" just so as to be rid of him doesn't make much sense for a team supposedly in a pennant race. Both are useful ML catchers and suddenly getting caught short down the stretch due to an injury would be real stupid.

Barajas is pretty decent defensively, has great taste in AB music, and seems to be a better evaluator of talent than some of the guys in the Met FO. He's also-- short stretches of power aside-- a pretty terrible offensive player (hell, he may just end up with 20 home runs this year... and be of less offensive worth than Blanco in doing so). If you want this sort of package down the stretch-- say, in the event of a season-ending Blanco injury-- we've got it at Buffalo in Barrett, or on the FA list in somebody like Paul Bako.

Blanco, on the other hand, is a defensive weapon... and he's worth more offensively-- occasional moonshot aside-- than Throbby. Also, he looks like he's ex-MS 13, and I'd be frightened to send him away without his okay.

If you're looking to build the strongest major-league team you can-- if not the deepest-- right now, then cutting Barajas absolutely makes sense. (I'm not saying for certain that this is what should be done... but it's a reasonable option.)

- Yes, Thole is hitting over .500 ... on a ridiculously small sample size. Do remember the .267 minor league hitter prior to that in your calculations.

That's a .267 average (and .353 OBP/.430 SLG) including a .172 (/.242/.259) April; he'd been hitting .319/.411/.521 in the two-plus months since until his promotion. Over more than 1700 PAs in the minors, he's put up a .289/.376/.381 cumulative line (with the slugging above .420 and climbing in each of the last three seasons) and walked more (11.4%) than he's struck out. He's walked more in three months than Barajas has in two years. Even if Barajas were hitting like he were in April/May, Thole would be the better offensive player... and it's not that close.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd prefer to hang on to Thole's small sample size (and the .500 batting average) over Barajas' large sample size. (Isn't he hitting .180 over the last seven weeks or so?)

Combine that with Thole having more of a potential future than Barajas, I'd much rather see him stick. If we're going to have two catchers, I'd prefer them to be Blanco and Thole.

[Ceetar]

I'd keep the three catchers for now, giving Thole more time to assess if he's worthwhile for the stretch run, and seeing if Barajas will ever wake up. I'd use them as pinch hitters when necessary, and I'd dump Carter (who's basically filling a PH role anyway, so the third catcher can do that, plus Thole is taking grounders at first right? :-P) since he's not really doing that well, and i'm not sure Jerry really trusts him either. Maybe Barajas is really more of a light load type of guy, and we should play him barely 33% of the time for a couple of weeks, he'll wake up, and be healthy and April-May fresh for Sept-OctobeR?

In a couple of weeks (well, maybe 10 days depending) you assess if you think Barajas will provide some pop and at least not be an auto-out going forward. See if you can trade him, or just trust him and get Thole the seasoning for a month (back 9/1 presumably). If not, just play Thole, let Barajas go (it's alright, we'll mail him a ring) and be done with it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I agree with LeiterWagner that Barajas is looking less valuable right now and for the foreseeable future than Blancito. That said, I have problem with the Ceetar plan of carrying all three and maybe splitting PT three ways. How they fit, I don't know. Maybe send Jerry down.

HAR! I"m becomng a crank.

I imagine know the Mets would like to have all three in September, and finding a way to get through the next five-six weeks without losing one is probably something like the plan. But yeah, I think a traded Barajas probably isn't much of a strategic loss, but you probably have to be confident that Blanco and Thole can carry the load down the stretch. The Mets never seemed to think Blanco can handle steady work.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I agree with LeiterWagner that Barajas is looking less valuable right now and for the foreseeable future than Blancito. That said, I have problem with the Ceetar plan of carrying all three and maybe splitting PT three ways. How they fit, I don't know. Maybe send Jerry down. HAR! I"m becomng a crank. I imagine know the Mets would like to have all three in September, and finding a way to get through the next five-six weeks without losing one is probably something like the plan. But yeah, I think a traded Barajas probably isn't much of a strategic loss, but you probably have to be confident that Blanco and Thole can carry the load down the stretch. The Mets never seemed to think Blanco can handle steady work.

I don't know that i like my plan, but it seems better than just demoting Thole because of options.

maybe they _are_ actually being smart and using the three catchers to rest Barajas to get him fresh.

[metirish]

Hojo has plenty of work to do. I could live with a Thole/Blanco combination but I do think that Barajas will start hitting for power again, I mean that's what's gone right, his hitting is the same otherwise?

[TransMonk]

If we keep Thole up and trade Barajas, who would be the backup if/when Blanco goes on the DL?

[metirish]

TransMonk wrote: If we keep Thole up and trade Barajas, who would be the backup if/when Blanco goes on the DL?

Jason Bay........his numbers would fit right in too.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: If we keep Thole up and trade Barajas, who would be the backup if/when Blanco goes on the DL?

I may vomit if i see Omir Santos again.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I may vomit on Ceetar if Santos comes up.

Here's the thing, though: even if Barajas hits like he did in April during, say, August... he's still a less valuable offensive player. His peak years in the majors-- 20 HRs in 400ish PAs-- still haven't given him a 100 OPS+ in any of them.

Granted, FK, trading Barajas for nothing may NOT be the best way to go forward... but for relief help?

Thole + Blanco + 2nd, half-decent LOOGY/guy who can pitch to lefties >>> Barajas + Blanco + bullpen as is.

[Guest themetfairy]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I may vomit on Ceetar if Santos comes up.

The combination of your avatar and that statement is priceless.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I find it hard to believe Santos (or many floating catchers) could be less productive than Barajas.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

TransMonk wrote: If we keep Thole up and trade Barajas, who would be the backup if/when Blanco goes on the DL?

Barrett? A free agent like Paul Bako or Toby Hall? Another minor-league trade for, say, Jose Molina? There are options, and they're roughly as good as keeping Barajas, frankly.

As for a trade partner... howzabout Tampa Bay? Jaso's the only catcher over there doing anything; both Shoppach and Navarro have been liabilities (offensively, defensively, and injury-wise).

Omir? He's Barajas minus the power... and defense.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mike Nickeas isn't the worst option --- a defensive specialist hitting all year (for once) at Bingo.

And again, these are just fallback scenarios if someone gets hurt.

[metirish]

Did I miss some games where Santos was so terrible?

[TransMonk]

Is Mike DiFelice still around?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

DiFelice is managing the Kingsport Mets.

Santos was pretty terrible after an OK start offensively last year (and providing the feel-good moment of the entire year) and it came out later that the pitchers and coaching staff weren;t thrilled with his game-calling & D, either.

[metirish]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: DiFelice is managing the Kingsport Mets. Santos was pretty terrible after an OK start offensively last year (and providing the feel-good moment of the entire year) and it came out later that the pitchers and coaching staff weren;t thrilled with his game-calling & D, either.

Ah yeah , I remember that now.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ramon Castro rakes in his ideal gig as a lightly used catcher.