Your NL MVP through the first week and a half of 2010 ...

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Tonight, he might turn into a pumpkin. Jeff Francoeur is about one or two bad games away from having a stat line that's kind of sucky.

Jeff Francoeur is about as pumpkiny as a pumpkin as he ever was. And pumpkinier! In the month of May, Francoeur (2010 season - .230/.295/.393) has drawn just one walk. My theory is that between last season and this one, he's learned to take the pitch that's seven inches or more off of the plate. His strike zone judgment was historically, so bad that pitchers could screw up his at bat by missing far. Frenchy's adjusted, thus resulting in his torrid start. So now the pitchers have readjusted. They've discovered that they can still get him out with bad pitches, but they need to miss the plate by smaller distances.

Jeff Francoeur sucks. Again.

[metirish]

"He's a streaky hitter, when he's hot he's hot and when he's cold he's cold"......how I hate hearing that line in regards to Francoeur....

[TransMonk]

metirish wrote: "He's a streaky hitter, when he's hot he's hot and when he's cold he's cold"......how I hate hearing that line in regards to Francoeur....

and Jason Bay...and Jose Reyes...and David Wright...

[Centerfield]

Especially since he's not hot that often.

With an OPS of .688, you'd have to think he's going to bounce back a little since he's usually in the mid .700's.

As it is now, Francoeur ranks 28th out of 39 outfielders who qualify. He is 11th out 13 rightfielders.

If you are assessing trades, he is worse than Ryan Church (.759) but he's better than Lastings Milledge (.612) so it's a net gain at the end of the day. Of course, all three still suck.

But it's not all gloom and doom. These guys suck even worse than Francoeur:

Carlos Lee, Hunter Pence, Nate McClouth, Cameron Maybin, Mark DeRosa.

The worst outfielder in the National League? Melky Cabrera (OPS .517)*




*Ok, so technically Chris Coghlan is worse at .496, but Melky is a former MFY, now a Brave, so that makes him worse.

[Ceetar]

People go back and forth on how much value hitting/pitching coaches have, but I maintain that it depends on the player.

I think Frenchy is a guy that needs more oversight and guidance in terms of a coach helping him with what he should be doing at the plate "identifying pitches, not swinging, taht kind of thing."

likewise, Perez is a guy that needs the oversight of a pitching coach a little more, when not to nibble, when to be aggressive, when to drop down sidearm (or not at all).

You could knock these guys for that, as being professionals that need a baby-sitter, but it's not like they need some convulated conditions in which to pitch involving salt baths and cleansing rituals and the moon to be in Aries.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: People go back and forth on how much value hitting/pitching coaches have, but I maintain that it depends on the player. I think Frenchy is a guy that needs more oversight and guidance in terms of a coach helping him with what he should be doing at the plate "identifying pitches, not swinging, taht kind of thing." likewise, Perez is a guy that needs the oversight of a pitching coach a little more, when not to nibble, when to be aggressive, when to drop down sidearm (or not at all). You could knock these guys for that, as being professionals that need a baby-sitter, but it's not like they need some convulated conditions in which to pitch involving salt baths and cleansing rituals and the moon to be in Aries.

Actually his Atlanta teammates say that Francoeur's issue was an inability to absorb instruction. They all speak highly of his character and his talent but after years of trying eventually came to the conclusion that he just didn't "get it." He yam what he yam.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

People go back and forth on how much value hitting/pitching coaches have, but I maintain that it depends on the player. I think Frenchy is a guy that needs more oversight and guidance in terms of a coach helping him with what he should be doing at the plate "identifying pitches, not swinging, taht kind of thing." likewise, Perez is a guy that needs the oversight of a pitching coach a little more, when not to nibble, when to be aggressive, when to drop down sidearm (or not at all). You could knock these guys for that, as being professionals that need a baby-sitter, but it's not like they need some convulated conditions in which to pitch involving salt baths and cleansing rituals and the moon to be in Aries. Actually his Atlanta teammates say that Francoeur's issue was an inability to absorb instruction. They all speak highly of his character and his talent but after years of trying eventually came to the conclusion that he just didn't "get it." He yam what he yam.

If there was any team that had a huge stake in him doing well-- personable, local-born-and-bred, schoolboy-football hero in schoolboy-football country... and a guy who made a big splash on his initial entry into the league-- it was Atlanta. And after sticking with him for a while past a while, and working with him intensely on improving his pitch-recognition/selectivity, and investing so damn much in him... they cut bait with him for a backup/defensive replacement (which is how they used Church).

The Mets are gonna stick with him for a while as well, I think, and at least as much for off-field reasons as for anything he does in a uniform. They seem to have built a lot of their PR/community outreach programs with him significantly in mind... and there remain a lot of Frenchy shirts in the gift shop*.

Also worth noting, however: Francoeur is far from the only guy on the team who's proven pretty terrible at recognizing strikes and making contact with them. The team in general appears to be second-worst in the league at swinging at non-strikes (behind the Giants), and the worst in the league at actually swinging at strikes. So far, this hasn't manifested in an absurd amount of strikeouts (they're seventh in the NL in that), but they're hitting a lot of weak flyballs (41.3% fly rate, best in the NL... but with a below-average ISO accompanying that). Makes sense for a team that "reaches" so much, right?

*The sheer number of which, I must admit, surprised me a little when I first dropped by this year.[*]

[Guest Edgy DC]

His position at the beginning of the season was that the Braves worked with him on pursuing more walks, but the Mets (HoJo specifically) has preached more along the lines of pitch recognition. In other words, he worked from the perspective of the process, not the outcome. That seemed welcome and --- for a few weeks there --- magically successful.

We knew this day would come, and how they get through this may mean a lot. Over-committed to his throwing arm, his psychological development, or his place in their public image, the Braves seemed loathe to sit him when he wasn't hitting, but I'd sure like to see Carter get one start in three over the next few series, for both their sakes.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: His position at the beginning of the season was that the Braves worked with him on pursuing more walks, but the Mets (HoJo specifically) has preached more along the lines of pitch recognition. In other words, he worked from the perspective of the process, not the outcome. That seemed welcome and --- for a few weeks there --- magically successful.

I remember. (Sigh)

But the people running the team have proven pretty results-reactive, right... so that they (and he) would have trouble sticking to process in the face of normal fluctuations in contact rate and such and curbing regression following success makes some sense.

Edgy DC wrote: ... but I'd sure like to see Carter get one start in three over the next few series, for both their sakes.

Last night-- tough and deceptive righty on the mound-- wouldn't have been terrible. Nolasco's start on Saturday-Sunday (whenever he goes; I forget) seems like another.

[Frayed Knot]

There seems to be a campaign lately - tough to say whether it started with the mediots or is a front office planted and media fanned thing - that Francoeur is good for the clubhouse especially that he essentially replaced the evil Delgado. Not only does the front office like to tout these sort of things but I think a fair number of fans have bought into it also, both of which should buy Frenchy some more time and good will.
Of course the fact that the team was averaging 90+ wins/year while Carlos II was here (and healthy) and is seriously below .500 when not somehow seems to have been lost in the equation.


I think Francoeur's biggest problem overall may be that he just had too much success too early. His raw athleticism got him through the minors quickly and his first few years of ML ball before pitchers started catching up to him. I remember reading a piece of Cincy's Jay Bruce (also a 1st round HS OF draftee) saying that his early struggles, which followed his initial big splash, could be seen as a good thing in the long run because it would force him to make the adjustments and undergo the learning curve that [citing him specifically] Francoeur never did.

[metirish]

Got to get Carter in the game as a starter.....guy was hot in AAA and now comes up here holding his dick waiting for 1 AB....

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="James Kannengeiser of Amazin' Avenue"]Jeff Francoeur produced another 0-fer, and now has a slash line of .230/.295/.393. He�s like that friendly obese friend who has spent a lifetime eating fast food, then goes on a two week crash diet in an attempt to change his ways. Everyone around him is excited and supportive, happy that the all-around good guy is getting his act together. Then one day you drive by Wendy�s, see him sitting in the front window with three Baconators and realize it�s just not meant to be. Yes, Frenchy has loads of potential but after 3,000+ plate appearances actual results are expected.

[smg58]

smg58 wrote: Francoeur reminds me a bit of Rich Hidalgo. When he swings the bat well you wonder how he's not one of the league's star players, then you look at his overall numbers and wonder how it can possibly be the same person. My guess is if we keep him around long enough we'll find out.

I'm sticking with what I said in October. He genuinely comes across as a good guy, but he's a platoon player at best. I figure it's only a matter of time before Carter forces the Mets to give him regular playing time against righties.

[Centerfield]

And hopefully lefties too.