JerryWorld 2010

[Fman99]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: complete players for the win? I think the smarter/older players have learned what Jerry does and does not know, so hopefully they'll have learned when to listen, and when to ignore. I hope. You've got to know what's a rumor, know when to humor Know when to swing away, know when to bunt You never talk 'bout nuthin', when you're sittin' with an owie There'll be time enough for healin', when the season's done

You missed a golden "Fman rhyme" moment right there friend.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

David Lennon begs for Jerry Manuel to "do something." He doesn't say what, exactly. (Plant an herb garden? Take up Mah-Jongg? Play his best eight guys regularly as starters?)

That said, along with John Harper's Snooze piece yesterday (summed up via keywords: "unprepared," glass-jaw mentality, mindless baseball, no jokes), this seems to represent the press CW on Jerry/Flushing under Manuel control (no fundies, RISP problems, lineup construction).

DENVER - Now that Jerry Manuel has taken "full responsibility" after Sunday's clunker by the Mets, not to mention an alarming 2-4 opening homestand, what is he going to do to fix it?Manuel had four hours on the team's chartered flight to get a head start, as well as an off day in Denver before the Mets begin a six-game road trip Tuesday night against the Rockies. It had better not take him too long to come up with some answers, either. Manuel and Omar Minaya were put on notice at the end of last season by COO Jeff Wilpon. So far, it's not working out too well. With Minaya away on a scouting mission, assistant GM John Ricco is the ranking executive for this trip. But unlike past visits to the Mile High City, the Mets aren't on high alert just yet. Losing two of three to the Marlins is understandable, even at home. Losing two of three to the Nationals, a perpetually rebuilding club, is not. After Sunday's halfhearted effort against 35-year-old Mets castoff Livan Hernandez, Manuel put the blame on himself because his team "appeared to be unprepared." But with six difficult games looming against the Rockies and Cardinals, Manuel has to use that upsetting performance as a vehicle for change in the lineup, and perhaps in the rotation, too. The Mets will look at moving Jose Reyes to the third spot in the lineup and also might decide to skip Oliver Perez in the rotation. Under normal circumstances, it would seem foolish to panic after only six games. But given the shaky job security of the people involved and the concern over sluggish ticket sales in the second season at Citi Field, these are not normal circumstances.Manuel is keenly aware of what's at stake, and he plans to take a closer look at his sputtering offense. The Mets are batting .189 (10-for-53) with runners in scoring position. "You're going to make outs in this game. It's just that I think the approach has to be correct," Manuel said. "We have to have the right mind-set going forward with that, and I haven't seen us be able to get to that point yet." It's not Manuel's fault that Reyes missed the first four games because of a hyperactive thyroid. But he made the decision to bat Mike Jacobs fourth in two games - the logic was to split righthanded hitters David Wright and Jason Bay - rather than the superior hitter in Bay. Manuel soon corrected that mistake. After sitting Jacobs on Thursday against Marlins lefthander Nate Robertson, he was dropped below Bay when he returned to the lineup Friday night. It's a start, but Manuel has more work to do. As much as the Mets would like Reyes to get comfortable again in the leadoff role, they have not abandoned the idea of hitting him in the No. 3 spot. Over the weekend, one of the club's decision-makers talked about how the Mets would be a better offensive team with Reyes batting third, especially in the absence of Carlos Beltran. Manuel also is likely to start Angel Pagan in centerfield now that Gary Matthews Jr. is hitless (0-for-10) since Opening Day. Throughout spring training, the assumption was that Pagan would be the starter until Beltran returns, and he didn't play himself out of the job. Plus, if the Mets choose to take the plunge with Reyes in the No. 3 spot, Pagan would make a decent leadoff hitter. Either way, he should be bunched atop the order with Reyes, especially with the gap opportunities at Coors Field. It might be time to move up Jeff Francoeur to take advantage of his quick start. Francoeur, who batted sixth Sunday, has hit safely in all six games and is batting .476 (10-for-21) with three doubles, two home runs and a .538 on-base percentage.

[metirish]

Lennon should have added that the thinking behind possibly skipping Perez is to keep Santana on regular rest and not have him pitching on extra rest like he did last time out.

[ashie62]

Well, the Mets couldn't take the Nationals. The media is circling. This is a nice time to get it together on the road. If this trip goes poorly a call to Bobby V's cell phone would be a start.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, it's also better to get one extra start from Santana and one fewer start from Perez. I understand that most pitchers can no longer pitch regularly on three days rest, which is why we need five starters. But I think the fifth guy, unless he's really just as good as the rest of the rotation, should get skipped whenever possible. Maximize the number of outings from your better pitchers, and minimize those from the poorer ones. I'm surprised that most managers don't seem to do that.

[metirish]

Didn't the Mets go with four starters the last few seasons to start the season?

[Benjamin Grimm]

No, although the fifth guy, Mike Pelfrey, did get skipped for his first start in 2007.

[metirish]

I ask a question and I get graphs.....nice

[TransMonk]

I had forgotten about the 13 starter circus in 2006.

[Guest Edgy DC]

That Lennon article is kind of stinky.

[Benjamin Grimm]

TransMonk wrote: I had forgotten about the 13 starter circus in 2006.

And look how smoothly 2008 went.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, it's also better to get one extra start from Santana and one fewer start from Perez. I understand that most pitchers can no longer pitch regularly on three days rest, which is why we need five starters. But I think the fifth guy, unless he's really just as good as the rest of the rotation, should get skipped whenever possible. Maximize the number of outings from your better pitchers, and minimize those from the poorer ones. I'm surprised that most managers don't seem to do that.

A good number of them do. It seems a no-brainer, in fact, doesn't it?

Which is why you saw guys like Greinke, Zambrano, Sabathia, Gallardo, Beckett, Duke, Haren, Lowe and Lannan (!) start on Saturday, in their teams' fifth games. A good number of the others whose aces didn't start until Game 6 were going on regular rest, since they had Tuesday openers. The Mets were one of 4 teams that had its Opening Day starter on regular rest on Saturday that didn't use him.

Edgy DC wrote: That Lennon article is kind of stinky.

It's sad how, even as young bucks like Costa and Waldstein make their names (and rightfully so, if this offseason is any indication), guys like Lennon, Heyman and Burkhardt have seemed to slip in the last few months or so in terms of writing/reporting quality. Along with a couple of other former favorites, they live a lot closer to Hackville these days than I thought they did.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

The Yankees and Red Sox had an even trickier decision, as Sabathia and Beckett started the season opener on Sunday and would have had their regular turn come up in the fourth game on Friday. Each chose to go with their fourth starter (Vasquez and Wakefield) and hold their ace back one day, but still bypassed their fifth starter for a day.

[TransMonk]

Unfortunately, if they skipped #5 as often as they could, the backlash would be tremendous if Johan were to blow his arm out in July and have season ending surgery.

Prevention and recovery indeed.

[HahnSolo]

The Brandon Knight, Philip Humber, and Brian Lawrence starts really stand out in those Septembers.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: Unfortunately, if they skipped #5 as often as they could, the backlash would be tremendous if Johan were to blow his arm out in July and have season ending surgery. Prevention and recovery indeed.

Well, I feel like Johan, especially coming off arm surgery, could use the extra day during the earlier months. Also, as pitchers throw more pitches per start than they did the previous time out at this time of year, arguably putting more strain on the arm, that extra day to heal it could help as well. I also feel like it could hurt the 5th guy a bit by not keeping him on a semi-regular schedule and having him pitch after 5 days and then after 10. Especially when the guy's a rookie like Niese who arguably will be better in September the more starts he gets now.

[metirish]

I think part of the issue here is that Santana wants to pitch on his regular day and not get that extra rest.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: I think part of the issue here is that Santana wants to pitch on his regular day and not get that extra rest.

Another thing to consider is the whole 'verducci effect' thing, which may be just a theory, and the Mets haven't traditionally adhered to it anyway, but as much as I want Niese to get his reps, occasionally skipping him to keep his overall innings total down might be wise, especially if it gets Santana an extra start over the course of a season and it keeps him happy.

[ashie62]

metirish wrote: I think part of the issue here is that Santana wants to pitch on his regular day and not get that extra rest.

Then let him. Move the other Mooks around

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think there's two ways to set the rotation, and both are defensible. Probably the key is being clear to your charges on which way you're going and why.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Is Niese the fifth guy? Or is it Perez?

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Is Niese the fifth guy? Or is it Perez?

Manuel loses count after 2.

Niese (and Maine due to shoulder fatigue reasons) are the only two guys I'd consider skipping.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd much prefer to skip Perez than Niese, at least right now.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Is Niese the fifth guy? Or is it Perez? Manuel loses count after 2

Ha! That's funny because....wait. It isn't funny.

[ashie62]

Skip Ollie, Niese has skillz

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Outside of Almost Everyday Johan, Niese's the only guy who doesn't fill my body cavity with nervous when I watch him pitch. It's a new, fresh feeling.

Ollie? He gives me a not-so-fresh feeling.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah, but you know better than to hate the familiar and put your faith in the new just because.

[Fman99]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Outside of Almost Everyday Johan, Niese's the only guy who doesn't fill my body cavity with nervous when I watch him pitch. It's a new, fresh feeling. Ollie? He gives me a not-so-fresh feeling.

C'mon, let's go for a walk on the beach and talk about this in greater detail.

[Vic Sage]

Jerry should skip Maine every 5th day...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, but you know better than to hate the familiar and put your faith in the new just because.

Yeah, I know.

But I'm just so f*cking sick of the familiar at this point.

Fman99 wrote: C'mon, let's go for a walk on the beach and talk about this in greater detail.

It's cool, I talked to my mom about it while walking through a meadow. I'm good.