Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

[Edgy MD]

I like to coin a bullshit word on the 24th of every month --- letting on like: "Oh, you don't know that word? I thought everybody did."

[ashie62]

A nostalgic effort.

[metirish]

Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" .

[Fman99]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I don't know, but I like it. I'm pretty sure about 4/5 of my inner life is retrocrit.

I like a clit from the 1970's too. Some of that old school porn with the big bush muffs.

Oh wait, what?

[Edgy MD]

metirish wrote: Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" .

That's tittilating.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: metirish wrote: Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" . That's tittilating.

well, he did say nothing's been decided, but made it sound likely.

[batmagadanleadoff]

ST. LOUIS � After reviewing three seasons worth of data, the Mets finally seem to have arrived at the conclusion Citi Field is just too damn big. Speaking after his team�s 11-6 loss to the Cardinals last night, Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said a final decision will be reached next month, but all signs point to a more hitter�s friendly Citi Field, with shortened dimensions for 2012. Alderson said any changes would be "not subtle." The goal, he said, would be to make the ballpark fairer between pitchers and hitters while also placating fans who have called for more offense at Citi Field. "To some extent it�s a question of entertainment," Alderson said. "The hardcore baseball fan I think enjoys the 2-1, the 3-2 [score]. We�re appealing to a little broader segment, and I think offense is appealing. Offense sells." The changes would be music to the ears of David Wright and Jason Bay, both of whom have struggled to hit home runs in the cavernous ballpark. Among the certain changes would be a reduction of the 16-foot wall in left field that has turned many potential home runs into doubles over the ballpark�s first three seasons. But Alderson said the dimensions in left, center and right field might be shortened to help hitters. According to Mets� research, the average in major league baseball of home runs to balls put in play is about 2.5 percent. At Citi Field that number is 1.9 percent. At Yankee Stadium it�s 3.6 percent. "Those are the kinds of things we look at and consider whether we ought to alter the dimensions somewhat to make it a little more balanced, a little more average in terms of major league baseball," Alderson said. "I think there is some sense that the park is a little more overwhelming to a team that spends half its time there as opposed to a team that comes in for three games and doesn�t really have to alter an approach or think about it too much, and leaves. Those are the kinds of things we�re taking a look at." According to Alderson�s data, just eight home runs have been hit by left-handed hitters to the opposite field at Citi over three years. The major league average is in the 28-29 range. "We have three years worth of data and it�s an appropriate time to take a look at things and see if some alterations would be appropriate. They have certainly been done in other ballparks," Alderson said. As Padres president, Alderson oversaw alterations to PETCO Park that helped hitters. He mentioned Comerica Park in Detroit as another example of a modern ballpark that made changes after it opened to boost offense. "Citi Field is a terrific looking ballpark and we want to make sure that architecturally it�s not compromised," Alderson said. "But at the same time it�s a functional ballpark and I think there are ways, if we decide to make the changes that those changes could blend with the existing structure."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/shrinking_citi_mets_ready_to_move_DCiQ3nY97wjh5tyh2MmbWI#ixzz1YaSydaHY

Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team.

[batmagadanleadoff]

More quotes:

When asked how the changes might affect shortstop Jose Reyes, a prolific triples hitter whom the Mets hope to re-sign, Alderson quipped, "He might have to slide into third a little more often." Left unsaid was the impact reduced dimensions could have on David Wright, the hitter who has appeared most negatively affected by the Mets' move to Citi Field. The third baseman has hit only 22 home runs at home since the start of the 2009 season. He hit 21 homers at Shea Stadium in 2008 alone.

One of the challenges for the Mets will be to modify the outfield walls without making them an eyesore. It is unlikely they would demolish and rebuild any part of the stands, so the trick would be to alter the field dimensions in a way that is aesthetically pleasing. Alderson said one option in left field would be to build a new, shorter fence in front of the 16-foot wall, similar to what the Detroit Tigers did when they brought in the left-field wall at Comerica Park in 2003. "You don't want to make the ballpark jury-rigged," Alderson said. "Citi Field is a terrific-looking ballpark, and you want to make sure that architecturally it's not compromised. But at the same time, it's a functional ballpark. I think there are ways, if we do decide to make those changes, there are ways that those changes could blend with the existing structure."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903703604576584273139183568.html

[HahnSolo]

They can find a way to do it if they want to (bringing in the fences). They changed the line distances at Shea from 341 to 338 by adding a small fence. Was it pretty? No. But nobody killed themselves running into that brick wall, either.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Sounds like it's pretty much certain that there will be changes. I'm looking forward to learning the details.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team.

I think it could be the exact opposite of that. The closer the wall, or the hole, the more neutralized talent is.

I think dreaming of a new ballpark is like dreaming of a new home and a new life in an faraway city. You get there, you wake up, and you find out that you're still you. Good luck, Jason Bay.

[ashie62]

The grass is not greener on the other side?

[Ceetar]

Ashie62 wrote: The grass is not greener on the other side?

Grass around the apple used to be green, but they had to paint it black. so no. not greener.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team. I think it could be the exact opposite of that. The closer the wall, or the hole, the more neutralized talent is.

At the extremes, probably, I'd say. That's why wealthy teams shouldn't build parks that are uniformly extreme. I think that the closest park to Citi Field, dimension-wise, though not an exact match, was the Astrodome, and the Astros were mainly mediocre there. It's hard to win consistently in a cavernous park. Dodger Stadium by contrast, though a pitcher's park, isn't extremely cavernous. Its' foul territory was spacious.

Edgy DC wrote: I think dreaming of a new ballpark is like dreaming of a new home and a new life in an faraway city. You get there, you wake up, and you find out that you're still you. Good luck, Jason Bay.

This, I disagree with, for reasons already stated. You may be you, but you are a product of your home stadium. (See, Castilla, Vinny; Bichette, Dante, etc.)

[Edgy MD]

And the Rockies were still no great shakes because they gave up a record amount of homers too. The "you" I refer to is the Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are, by design, as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda.

You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A.

Ojeda's worthless.

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless.

Steve Olin would agree.

[Edgy MD]

The Sox got Schiraldi and Gardner and Christensen for him.

The Mets got Hubie back.

[HahnSolo]

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless. Steve Olin would agree.

Wow.

[batmagadanleadoff]

HahnSolo wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless. Steve Olin would agree. Wow.

Which post(s) get(s) your "Wow"?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm guessing it's the one that goes for the accidental-manslaughter punchline.

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I'm guessing it's the one that goes for the accidental-manslaughter punchline.

Yeah, me too. He was the best pitcher on the best Mets team ever. So worthless he ain't, in my book.

But jeez, have you been following Bobby O. on the Citi Field dimensions? All season long, he's been practically girly-manning, with Rob Dibble-like insights, anyone who dared to even think about moving in the fences. According to Bobby O, dimensions don't matter. It's all the same, whether centerfield is 390 or 800 feet away. Bobby O is now squarely in Phil Mushnick territory with his phony about-face.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Yeah... I try not to follow Bobby O, most times. It makes my head hurt less.

[HahnSolo]

Yeah, it was the Steve Olin mention.

[Edgy MD]

Guys, I'd like to talk to some of you about what you'll be seeing next year. Jason, you can join us too if you want.

Mets Dream About Next Year and Alterations to Citi Field The Mets front office is talking about making Citi Field more friendly to hitters. (Seth Wenig/Associated Press) By ANDREW KEH Published: September 21, 2011 ST. LOUIS � One day after General Manager Sandy Alderson provided reporters with the clearest indication to date that the Mets would make significant changes to the dimensions at Citi Field, he began working on enlightening the men who will play there next season. Alderson took a group of players aside before their game against the St. Louis Cardinals on Wednesday night and gave something of an informal presentation, explaining the various options the front office had as it considered altering the park. Their comments overflowed with qualifying language, but as a group the players said they would welcome any changes that would make Citi Field more closely resemble the other ballparks in the league. Hours later, the Mets took the field at Busch Stadium � which Alderson and some players singled out Wednesday afternoon as a �fair-playing� park � and fell for the second straight night against the Cardinals, 6-5. More distressing than the result, though, was the sight of Lucas Duda crashing into the outfield wall in the first inning and leaving the game two innings later with dizziness. �I feel good right now,� Duda said after the game. He said he was examined by a doctor, who said a concussion was unlikely. Manager Terry Collins, who has witnessed an almost endless string of injuries this season, sounded cautious. �We�ll see how he is in the morning,� Collins said. Duda, a power-hitting rookie who has blossomed at the plate, is one of the players who would benefit from a structural change at Citi Field. �I think any time you talk about making a park more hitter friendly, the hitters are going to be on board with that,� David Wright said. �It�s nice to have a front office that recognizes the situation and tries to correct it. That�s obviously greatly appreciated.� Wright has become something of a human rallying cry for those pushing for change. After producing remarkably consistent numbers at the start of his career, his statistics worsened after the team moved from Shea Stadium to Citi Field in 2009. Wright has remained diplomatic in discussing Citi Field�s dimensions, but he recently began to reveal hints of frustration about them. On Wednesday, he was more open still about how the stadium had influenced his play. �I think that one of the things that played to my strengths at Shea was being able to drive the ball to right-center, and you really got to hit it at Citi Field to get it out there,� Wright said. �I think that when I got to Citi Field, and I don�t know if it was just the park or wanting to become a better all-around hitter, but I focused more on trying to become a better pull hitter.� Of the possible alterations, Wright said: �It�s obviously welcome, because I�m not great at pulling the ball with a lot of power. Most of my power comes from gap to gap. If they change the dimensions as it�s been hinted, I don�t think that could do anything but help my strengths.� Alderson and his staff have pored through copious amounts of data, culled from three years of the play at the stadium, to determine what changes might be most beneficial for the team. He presented those numbers and an array of alterations to a group of Mets players Wednesday. �I think it�s considerate,� R. A. Dickey said of Alderson�s decision to approach the players. �The thing to remember is that nothing�s for certain yet, and in our conversation he was clear on that, that there�s been no level of detail that�s been unanimous.� Alderson said the team would decide by next month what changes would be made. He said that the Mo�s Zone, an awkward and cavernous cut-out in the right-field fence, could easily be normalized and moved closer to home plate. Alderson has implied, too, that the 16-foot wall in left-center field, which has prevented numerous balls hit by Wright and teammates like Jason Bay from becoming home runs, would almost certainly be halved. �If you can go out there and be rewarded for hitting a ball well, that�s ideal for any situation,� Wright said. �There are some places in our ballpark that are a little, I guess, unfair at this point.� The issue that remains most unclear is whether the team will add a secondary fence in left field in front of the original one. The Mets can look to changes made by the Detroit Tigers at Comerica Park. That stadium, like Citi Field, was derided as a nightmare for power hitters when it opened in 2000. Before the 2003 season, the team installed a second fence 25 feet closer to home plate than the original one, and placed a bullpen area there. If the Mets make a similar decision, Alderson said, they are unlikely to have that much space to work with, meaning they could install a row or two of seats in the gap or perhaps install a grass-covered berm. Aesthetic concerns, he said, would take priority in that decision. The specifics, it was clear, remain uncertain. But that did not stop the Mets on Wednesday from voicing their support. �There�s certainly somewhat of a psychological barrier now when you play at Citi Field,� Collins said.

Also:

Draw Your Own Citi Field Blueprints

[metirish]

I want to reiterate for David Wright that he is not in any way canvassing for changes , he's not that type of guy.

[Edgy MD]

David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

I blame it on Citi Field's' dimensions. And the stupid Dodgers' rotunda. Not necessarily in that order.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

apt description. We need to win him a title so he can be whoever he wants and the media can portray him as the guy he's supposed to be.