Memories of Livan

[Guest Edgy DC]

That was a little Astacio-esque wasn't it? Perfectly cromulent first half and a crash-and-burn second half.

That was pretty expectable, and, ideally, they'd be bringing a Niese or somebody along around the time he broke down. Instead he turned out to be the last guy standing.

You look at the sunny and vibrant health of the '69 and '86 teams and you realize that the key to this whole thing is sometimes just staying out of the trainers' rooms. And who stays healthy but the broken down old guy.

[Gwreck]

Six times I saw Livan start this year, and six times the Mets lost. They weren't all his fault (Castillo game; meltdown in Baltimore) but still. Six losses. Hell, I think I was at least 1-5 in seeing Matt Ginter starts. But not Livan.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Saw the season's lone CG-- a gutty 1-run, 9-hit affair-- out of this guy. Ate crow the next day.

I've been vomiting up crow ever since.

[Guest Edgy DC]

In 2007, we release El Duque.

In 2009, we release El Duquecito.

In 2011, we release El Duquecitismo.

Don't tell me there's no plan.

[nymr83]

Livan's overall output sucked, as expected. It probably wasn't the worst idea as far as experimenting on retreads goes, but the Mets should have cut bait sooner.

[Gwreck]

We didn't actually release El Duque in 2007. Believe it or not, he was on the payroll for all of 2008 but just sitting on the disabled list.

[G-Fafif]

Threw the first Met pitch of any kind in Citi Field, against the Red Sox.

Wasn't much of a hitter, which he was supposed to be, or at least had been long ago.

Before he began sucking from the first inning to however long he made it, he had a habit of looking bad in the first and then straightening himself out.

[Guest themetfairy]

I was at the complete game shutout. After the 8th, the PA system played Elton John's Livan, and I thought that was the end of his night. It was a nice surprise having him come back for the 9th and nail down the win. It was a thing of beauty.

I also remember the CPF gathering in DC 7/4/05. Livan was pitching for the Nationals. FK posted on the board, "It will be Livan. And it will be a good win."

This is all I care to remember about Livan.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I always kind of liked him. Seemed like for the previous 10 years every other time I'd go to Shea he was the opposing pitcher (Expos, Giants, Marlins) and I admired watching him -- threw strikes, worked quickly, whole bagful of deliveries and pitches, thrown at any count -- so I was pleased that the Mets gave him a shot, and even more pleased to see how long he hung in there. He was solid enough to have been a presence on the team by midseason: I recall Jerry referencing him as some kind of jolly clubhouse cop or something, I forget the details.

So before we all become ungrateful haters, consider the fucking army of NRI 5th starter types who've run through over the years and done a whole hell of a lot worse-- Baldwin, Fossum, Armas, Vargas, Lawrence, Williams, etc etc., not to mention guaranteed contract busts like Redding.

Thanks, Livan. You were OK in my book.

[bmfc1]

June 7, 2009; Nationals Park; Livan continued his dominance of the Nationals with 7 shutout innings. The Mets scored 5 in the first and coasted to a 7-0 win. He was hitting the corners and beautifully mixing his off-speed pitches with his "fast" ball.

[Fman99]

="bmfc1":2csz4d7m]June 7, 2009; Nationals Park; Livan continued his dominance of the Nationals with 7 shutout innings. The Mets scored 5 in the first and coasted to a 7-0 win. He was hitting the corners and beautifully mixing his off-speed pitches with his "fast" ball.[/quote:2csz4d7m] We attended this game as well. He seemed to shine against quad-A squads like the '09 Nats.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 21 2009 08:41 AM

I was fortunate enough to attend Game 6 of the World Series between the Indians and the Marlins, the year of Livan was a phenom and hero. We had seats down by the Marlins' bullpen, and he was down there interacting with fans and having a great time.

Edgy DC Aug 21 2009 08:52 AM

Isn't that known as the most excruciating series ever --- long games with endless pitching changes, late starts, and horrible weather?

metsguyinmichigan Aug 21 2009 11:19 AM

The Cleveland games had snow issues. We were in Miami, and thought the Marlins would win it that night, because Kevin Brown was going against Chad Ogea, a rookie. Instead, Brown -- a known red ass -- was probaby gripping too tight, and Ogea had the game of his life, even getting a big hit. Per Wikipedia: Chad Ogea, having lost two games in the ALCS and winning no games in June, July, or August, managed to win two World Series games, both of them against Marlins ace Kevin Brown. In that Series, he gave up just two earned runs for an ERA of 1.54. But what was the most amazing was his hitting in that Series. In Game 6, Chad managed to get his first hit since high school off Brown, knocking in two runs in the process. Then he once again helped on offense on a first pitch double to lead off the 5th. He would score on Manny Ram�rez's sacrifice fly. He was the first pitcher since Mickey Lolich to drive in two World Series runs and the first Cleveland Indians pitcher to drive in a World Series run since 1920. I've been blessed to see two World Series games in person, both times the home team lost. (The other was 2006, Game 1 in Detroit, when we were convinced the Mets would be there.)

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2009 12:41 PM

The game he had against Houston a few weeks back where he looked horrible in the first frame (3 runs I think) to the point where it looked like he'd be run out of there, but then kept them in it until the late innings with shout-out ball after that was the typical walk-on-the-edge game he was good at. Unfortunately instead of that being the prototype going forward it was essentially his last good game as bad first innings starting leading to bad second innings, bad third innings ...

G-Fafif Aug 21 2009 01:37 PM

Livan was a human gas pump in that complete game at Citi against the Nationals. He just kept filling up your Oldsmobile with pitches. Ding! Ding! Ding! For one night, no energy crisis.

Ashie62 Aug 21 2009 02:05 PM Re: Memories of Livan

="Edgy DC":2yw9zpea]That was a little Astacio-esque wasn't it? Perfectly cromulent first half and a crash-and-burn second half. That was pretty expectable, and, ideally, they'd be bringing a Niese or somebody along around the time he broke down. Instead he turned out to be the last guy standing. You look at the sunny and vibrant health of the '69 and '86 teams and you realize that the key to this whole thing is sometimes just staying out of the trainers' rooms. And who stays healthy but the broken down old guy.[/quote:2yw9zpea] With a lighter shade of Lima Valadius Aug 21 2009 03:23 PM He sucked. The end. Note: I'm too drunk right now to be terribly nuanced about it. PiggiesTomatoes Aug 21 2009 08:52 PM Watching him pitch and thinking, "No way he's 34 years old."

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I was fortunate enough to attend Game 6 of the World Series between the Indians and the Marlins, the year of Livan was a phenom and hero. We had seats down by the Marlins' bullpen, and he was down there interacting with fans and having a great time.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Isn't that known as the most excruciating series ever --- long games with endless pitching changes, late starts, and horrible weather?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

The Cleveland games had snow issues. We were in Miami, and thought the Marlins would win it that night, because Kevin Brown was going against Chad Ogea, a rookie.

Instead, Brown -- a known red ass -- was probaby gripping too tight, and Ogea had the game of his life, even getting a big hit.

Per Wikipedia: Chad Ogea, having lost two games in the ALCS and winning no games in June, July, or August, managed to win two World Series games, both of them against Marlins ace Kevin Brown. In that Series, he gave up just two earned runs for an ERA of 1.54. But what was the most amazing was his hitting in that Series. In Game 6, Chad managed to get his first hit since high school off Brown, knocking in two runs in the process. Then he once again helped on offense on a first pitch double to lead off the 5th. He would score on Manny Ram�rez's sacrifice fly. He was the first pitcher since Mickey Lolich to drive in two World Series runs and the first Cleveland Indians pitcher to drive in a World Series run since 1920.

I've been blessed to see two World Series games in person, both times the home team lost. (The other was 2006, Game 1 in Detroit, when we were convinced the Mets would be there.)

[Frayed Knot]

The game he had against Houston a few weeks back where he looked horrible in the first frame (3 runs I think) to the point where it looked like he'd be run out of there, but then kept them in it until the late innings with shout-out ball after that was the typical walk-on-the-edge game he was good at.
Unfortunately instead of that being the prototype going forward it was essentially his last good game as bad first innings starting leading to bad second innings, bad third innings ...

[G-Fafif]

Livan was a human gas pump in that complete game at Citi against the Nationals. He just kept filling up your Oldsmobile with pitches. Ding! Ding! Ding! For one night, no energy crisis.

[ashie62]

="Edgy DC":2yw9zpea]That was a little Astacio-esque wasn't it? Perfectly cromulent first half and a crash-and-burn second half. That was pretty expectable, and, ideally, they'd be bringing a Niese or somebody along around the time he broke down. Instead he turned out to be the last guy standing. You look at the sunny and vibrant health of the '69 and '86 teams and you realize that the key to this whole thing is sometimes just staying out of the trainers' rooms. And who stays healthy but the broken down old guy.[/quote:2yw9zpea] With a lighter shade of Lima

Valadius Aug 21 2009 03:23 PM

He sucked. The end. Note: I'm too drunk right now to be terribly nuanced about it.

PiggiesTomatoes Aug 21 2009 08:52 PM

Watching him pitch and thinking, "No way he's 34 years old."

[Valadius]

He sucked. The end.

Note: I'm too drunk right now to be terribly nuanced about it.

[Piggiestomatoes]

Watching him pitch and thinking, "No way he's 34 years old."