Still Out There

[Guest Edgy DC]

The thing about the previous generation of defensive metrics is that they seemed to undervalue outfield defense by measuring balls caught against balls fielded by the same standard as those for infielders. What they missed was that a failure to field a ball by an infielder typically resulted in a single base, while a failure to field a ball by an outfielder resulted in two or three.

[Guest cooby]

Lady Caca?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ladies don't caca; they perspire excrement.

And speaking of excretions... with all this dancing around old friends (Stache, Pedro, Figueroa), Omar's got no room in his pay rolls for ol' Pee Hands?

(I hate to repeat myself, but if we're not going hard after Ohman, and our other RH bat options are Nomar and those two... yeep.)

Or, from the so-crazy-it-just-might-work department... Frank Thomas? (Still got a great eye, and could spell Delgado 1-2 times a week.)

[Gwreck]

We got Alex Cora to back-up instead of Nomar?
Seriously?

Reyes is going to play 160 games or something, and if he gets hurt, then we can sign Alex Cora. I'd take my chances with giving Nomar the 5 starts at short we give Reyes off.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Gwreck":3u3fvm4z]Reyes is going to play 160 games or something, and if he gets hurt, then we can sign Alex Cora.[/quote:3u3fvm4z] How do you figure? Nobody's going to sign him? Ever?

Gwreck Feb 20 2009 08:25 AM

Maybe not Cora himself, but there'd likely be another no-hit, good-field middle infielder available somewhere, no?

Edgy DC Feb 20 2009 08:30 AM

But, for a reserve, Cora is actually a modest-hit, excellent field guy, and a rarer bird than you're giving him credit for. He's perfectly capable of stealing the second base job. Nomar remains what he's been the last couple of years --- a good enough hitter to demand more PT than a reserve infielder (five games? you think he'd go for that?), but no obvious position.

Gwreck Feb 20 2009 10:15 AM

I don't think Nomar would start only 5 games; I think he'd also spell Delgado occasionally against a tough lefty, and also serve as Wright's backup at third. He'd also be the primary pinch-hitting bat off the bench. The 5 games reference is that the Mets don't necessarily need a player taking up a spot on the bench, when all they require is a player who has the defensive skills to be a shortstop for about 5 games a year. I see the point about him being a good enough hitter to deserve more PT than a reserve but submit that if he's unsigned, he's not getting PT anywhere.

Nymr83 Feb 20 2009 12:24 PM

]situational lefties: Joe Beimel, RP (31) -type ( Dennys Reyes, RP (31) -type ( Will Ohman, RP (31) Someone brought up in the Griffey thread what they saw as a need for another lefty. I disagree. I thought one of the problems with the 2008 Mets was that Schoenweis and Feliciano were redundant- they both got lefties out but couldn't handle righties- and this forced the managers to use them in situations they weren't suited for, leading them to fail. One situational lefty is all I want to see on the team. If theres a Dennis Cook out there who can get righties out too that would be great, but I don't see him in these guys. Ohman and Reyes both get abused by righties, Beimel actually isn't too bad for his career but he was the past 2 years.

attgig Feb 20 2009 01:13 PM

hudson is apparently now a dodger.

Nymr83 Feb 20 2009 01:19 PM

it says he signed with LA on rotoworld but the terms of the deal havent been disclosed yet.

smg58 Feb 20 2009 01:51 PM

According to mlb.com, Hudson is getting one year and $3.4M, with up to $4.6M in incentives. If bringing in Ollie at 3 and 36 made it impossible to offer Hudson even that little, then the Mets should have settled for Garland at half the annual salary, or even Looper for less than that. Somebody else signing Ollie would have also gotten us two better draft picks than the one Hudson would have cost. Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years. Either way, I'm unhappy.

metirish Feb 20 2009 01:55 PM

I just can't accept or I don't buy the idea that the Mets couldn't offer Hudson a deal because they signed Perez to a reasonable deal.Maybe they just couldn't be arsed with him. I like Hudson but am not going to be thinking about him all season that's for sure.

Frayed Knot Feb 20 2009 02:01 PM

I don't think it's any one reason exclusively why they sidestepped Hudson -- I think it's the extra money, on top of the draft pick it would cost, on top of the fact that they'd either have to still pay Castillo and/or have two 2Bmen who both wanted to start.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 20 2009 02:05 PM

I can't help but see Hudson as a missed opportunity, whatever the reasons. Hopefully Castillo will have three kick-ass seasons from 2009 through 2011 and make it all moot. (I can hope, can't I?)

Frayed Knot Feb 20 2009 02:25 PM

A good example of the adage about how it's easier to recover from the guy you fail to sign than it is to recover from the guy you sign at the wrong price. In this case the difference is made even more stark by throwing in a bad 1st year on top of a dramatic price fall in the market place overall.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 20 2009 04:42 PM

="smg58":jlankl2g] Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years. Either way, I'm unhappy.[/quote:jlankl2g] I think you've hit it exactly on the head. A hard head, at that. Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing. Centerfield Feb 21 2009 05:29 AM It's because he's saving for Manny. Edgy DC Feb 21 2009 10:36 AM I'm going to insist on looking on the dark side with Hudson. He's two years removed from his last golden glove. He ended 2007 with a thumb injury that was listed as "day to day," but cost him the last three and half weeks of the season as his team finished a game and a half out. Then he started the season with recurring hammy problems, and ended it in August with a dislocated wrist, which is an injury that could give a man pause. Signing him costs that draft pick and means giving up pretty much on the duration of Castillo's contract, and perhaps the possiblity of transitioning Murphy over there this year, which the scoreboard shot suggests is maybe in the cards. Cheap, yeah, but I'm here to sing the praises of standing pat. I'm always here for that. Benjamin Grimm Feb 21 2009 03:48 PM And Hudson may be a free agent again after 2009. So we may have another shot at him. Nymr83 Feb 21 2009 04:07 PM a year older and possibly in a worse buyer's market. the Mets really dropped the ball here considering the price they paid for freakin Cora and the bargain rate at which Hudson signed. Edgy DC Feb 21 2009 06:10 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 21 2009 07:15 PM I don't think they dropped the ball at all. They made their choice decisively --- that they were looking to buy a new starter at second only if they could deal their current one. Argue against that, but let's not imply that the Mets pursued him and failed by misreading the market. Or bought somebody else high. Kong76 Feb 21 2009 06:43 PM smg58: Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years <<< I doubt that a guy running an ~ $200,000,000 business model let's that come into play. His fish will be fried on the outcome of 2009 and not owning up to prior poor signings will have nothing to with it. LWFS: Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing <<< I typed five things and backspaced five times ... never mind. Edgy DC Mar 03 2009 06:08 AM Alou hinting at retirement after the WBC. Rockin' Doc Mar 03 2009 06:14 AM Alou has been semi-retired the past two seasons.

[Gwreck]

Maybe not Cora himself, but there'd likely be another no-hit, good-field middle infielder available somewhere, no?

[Guest Edgy DC]

But, for a reserve, Cora is actually a modest-hit, excellent field guy, and a rarer bird than you're giving him credit for. He's perfectly capable of stealing the second base job.

Nomar remains what he's been the last couple of years --- a good enough hitter to demand more PT than a reserve infielder (five games? you think he'd go for that?), but no obvious position.

[Gwreck]

I don't think Nomar would start only 5 games; I think he'd also spell Delgado occasionally against a tough lefty, and also serve as Wright's backup at third. He'd also be the primary pinch-hitting bat off the bench.

The 5 games reference is that the Mets don't necessarily need a player taking up a spot on the bench, when all they require is a player who has the defensive skills to be a shortstop for about 5 games a year.

I see the point about him being a good enough hitter to deserve more PT than a reserve but submit that if he's unsigned, he's not getting PT anywhere.

[nymr83]

]situational lefties: Joe Beimel, RP (31) -type ( Dennys Reyes, RP (31) -type ( Will Ohman, RP (31)

Someone brought up in the Griffey thread what they saw as a need for another lefty. I disagree. I thought one of the problems with the 2008 Mets was that Schoenweis and Feliciano were redundant- they both got lefties out but couldn't handle righties- and this forced the managers to use them in situations they weren't suited for, leading them to fail.
One situational lefty is all I want to see on the team.
If theres a Dennis Cook out there who can get righties out too that would be great, but I don't see him in these guys. Ohman and Reyes both get abused by righties, Beimel actually isn't too bad for his career but he was the past 2 years.

[Guest attgig]

hudson is apparently now a dodger.

[nymr83]

it says he signed with LA on rotoworld but the terms of the deal havent been disclosed yet.

[smg58]

According to mlb.com, Hudson is getting one year and $3.4M, with up to $4.6M in incentives.

If bringing in Ollie at 3 and 36 made it impossible to offer Hudson even that little, then the Mets should have settled for Garland at half the annual salary, or even Looper for less than that. Somebody else signing Ollie would have also gotten us two better draft picks than the one Hudson would have cost.

Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years.

Either way, I'm unhappy.

[metirish]

I just can't accept or I don't buy the idea that the Mets couldn't offer Hudson a deal because they signed Perez to a reasonable deal.Maybe they just couldn't be arsed with him. I like Hudson but am not going to be thinking about him all season that's for sure.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't think it's any one reason exclusively why they sidestepped Hudson -- I think it's the extra money, on top of the draft pick it would cost, on top of the fact that they'd either have to still pay Castillo and/or have two 2Bmen who both wanted to start.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can't help but see Hudson as a missed opportunity, whatever the reasons.

Hopefully Castillo will have three kick-ass seasons from 2009 through 2011 and make it all moot.

(I can hope, can't I?)

[Frayed Knot]

A good example of the adage about how it's easier to recover from the guy you fail to sign than it is to recover from the guy you sign at the wrong price.
In this case the difference is made even more stark by throwing in a bad 1st year on top of a dramatic price fall in the market place overall.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

="smg58":jlankl2g] Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years. Either way, I'm unhappy.[/quote:jlankl2g] I think you've hit it exactly on the head. A hard head, at that. Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing.

Centerfield Feb 21 2009 05:29 AM

It's because he's saving for Manny.

Edgy DC Feb 21 2009 10:36 AM

I'm going to insist on looking on the dark side with Hudson. He's two years removed from his last golden glove. He ended 2007 with a thumb injury that was listed as "day to day," but cost him the last three and half weeks of the season as his team finished a game and a half out. Then he started the season with recurring hammy problems, and ended it in August with a dislocated wrist, which is an injury that could give a man pause. Signing him costs that draft pick and means giving up pretty much on the duration of Castillo's contract, and perhaps the possiblity of transitioning Murphy over there this year, which the scoreboard shot suggests is maybe in the cards. Cheap, yeah, but I'm here to sing the praises of standing pat. I'm always here for that.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 21 2009 03:48 PM

And Hudson may be a free agent again after 2009. So we may have another shot at him.

Nymr83 Feb 21 2009 04:07 PM

a year older and possibly in a worse buyer's market. the Mets really dropped the ball here considering the price they paid for freakin Cora and the bargain rate at which Hudson signed.

Edgy DC Feb 21 2009 06:10 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 21 2009 07:15 PM

I don't think they dropped the ball at all. They made their choice decisively --- that they were looking to buy a new starter at second only if they could deal their current one. Argue against that, but let's not imply that the Mets pursued him and failed by misreading the market. Or bought somebody else high.

Kong76 Feb 21 2009 06:43 PM

smg58: Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years <<< I doubt that a guy running an ~ $200,000,000 business model let's that come into play. His fish will be fried on the outcome of 2009 and not owning up to prior poor signings will have nothing to with it. LWFS: Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing <<< I typed five things and backspaced five times ... never mind.

Edgy DC Mar 03 2009 06:08 AM

Alou hinting at retirement after the WBC.

Rockin' Doc Mar 03 2009 06:14 AM

Alou has been semi-retired the past two seasons.

[Centerfield]

It's because he's saving for Manny.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm going to insist on looking on the dark side with Hudson. He's two years removed from his last golden glove. He ended 2007 with a thumb injury that was listed as "day to day," but cost him the last three and half weeks of the season as his team finished a game and a half out. Then he started the season with recurring hammy problems, and ended it in August with a dislocated wrist, which is an injury that could give a man pause.

Signing him costs that draft pick and means giving up pretty much on the duration of Castillo's contract, and perhaps the possiblity of transitioning Murphy over there this year, which the scoreboard shot suggests is maybe in the cards.

Cheap, yeah, but I'm here to sing the praises of standing pat. I'm always here for that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And Hudson may be a free agent again after 2009. So we may have another shot at him.

[nymr83]

a year older and possibly in a worse buyer's market.
the Mets really dropped the ball here considering the price they paid for freakin Cora and the bargain rate at which Hudson signed.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think they dropped the ball at all. They made their choice decisively --- that they were looking to buy a new starter at second only if they could deal their current one.

Argue against that, but let's not imply that the Mets pursued him and failed by misreading the market. Or bought somebody else high.

[Guest Kong76]

smg58: Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years <<<

I doubt that a guy running an ~ $200,000,000 business model let's that come
into play. His fish will be fried on the outcome of 2009 and not owning up to prior
poor signings will have nothing to with it.

LWFS: Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing <<<

I typed five things and backspaced five times ... never mind.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Alou hinting at retirement after the WBC.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Alou has been semi-retired the past two seasons.