Nashville

[soupcan]

I'll give D-Train (a perfect nickname for a player in NYC) a pass on last year. He's a stud.

Didn't think about Pudge's no-trade/possible extension. Maybe that means the Mets can take back or switch out one of the players in the imagined deal - Martinez? Heilman?

I'd really like to see Omar make this happen. Really. I would.

[Frayed Knot]

Last [u:9835df6dd5]two[/u:9835df6dd5] years for Willis = IPs down, hits up, Ks down, BBs up, HRs allowed up, ERA up

I'd fall considerably short of saying "Stud"

[Guest iramets]

Frayed Knot wrote: I'd fall considerably short of saying "Stud"

So what's that? "Stuh"? Maybe just "SSSssss...'?

What's overlooked in the I-Rod deal is that the Mets would own his contract for only a little bit, which is why A-Jo was able to get big bucks from LA--it's just two years' worth of Big Bucks, which is a reasonable gamble: by the time they figure that he's now not the player he once was was, the A-Jo era is over. And if he has a bog year in 208, you sign him to an extension. Beats the hell out of signing a question mark for most of a decade and finding yourself committed to the destruction of your franchise for the foreseeable future if he can't play anymore.

[soupcan]

Frayed Knot wrote: Last two years for Willis = IPs down, hits up, Ks down, BBs up, HRs allowed up, ERA up I'd fall considerably short of saying "Stud"

Okay fine but he's still a number 1 guy in his mid-twenties with no health issues who has won 20 games in the bigs.

The money you'd have to pay Pudge and Dontrelle is still less than what you'd have to pay Santana anyway.

[Frayed Knot]

]What's overlooked in the I-Rod deal is that the Mets would own his contract for only a little bit

Not overlooked at all as it's specifically adressed above.

And if he were gettable at only 1 year that would be a whole lot more palatable than if he were intent on forcing a 2 or 3 year extention out of it, especially since we already know he's not the player he once was.

[Guest iramets]

You don't extend him, except on an option basis tied to incentives.

[soupcan]

Well he's in the driver's seat. If you don't extend him on his terms then he doesn't waive his no trade and you're shit outta luck.

[Guest iramets]

="soupcan"]Well he's in the driver's seat. If you don't extend him on his terms then he doesn't waive his no trade and you're shit outta luck.

Which is why I suggested the 'options' option as a compromise between I-Rod asking for the sun, moon and stars and the mets offering nothing at all. If you willing to sign an option year extension, for which you'll have to play x games or get y at-bats,, then you're just extorting money, which doesn't make sense for the Mets. But if you want another year at your current rate if you put in x or y, that's a reasonable risk.

[soupcan]

Sure but my point is that he is in the position of extorting money and when has a ballplayer ever been in that position and not taken advantage of it?




UGH- Now I'm Bobby Bonilla? Geez.

[metsmarathon]

the cost in terms of prospects should be mitigated by the cost in terms of dollars that hte mets would be getting back.

not to mention the uncertainty inherent with both willis and pudge.

[Frayed Knot]

Keep in mind also that you're already taking a catcher at ~$13mil/per who makes outs at a considerably greater rate than the departing Paul LoDuca. And while, yeah, the rest of his game is better all-around than PLD, he's no longer the power threat he once was as he went from a 3-season run of 87 HRs to just 28 over the last 3 (and looks smaller than he once did ... Hmmmmm!)

So unless he's not only agreeing to only a conditional extension but also to one that pays him at around half the rate of the current one (for his likely to decline age 38 & 39 seasons) then I'm not even sure the conditional route is a great deal for the team that gets him.



And while I don't object to Dontrelle I also don't think he should be treated as a #1, something he really only was for one season (2005)

[Vic Sage]

The Tigers pitching staff is deep enough not to need Willis, and I-Rod is in serious decline. That, together with the Mets agreeing to take those huge financial commitments off Detroit's books, give Mets some bargaining position here, and therefore the package of talent we offer should reflect that.

I would try and keep Heilman and Pelfrey out of the deal:

Schneider + Gomez + Humber or Mulvey + Guerra (or similar A ball prospect)

If they insist on Pelfrey + Heilman, then they get Schneider, but no Gomez

Otherwise, emptying the top tier of the farm system for 2 guys with significant question marks is a risky acquisition

Edited December 6, 2007 by Guest

[soupcan]

Make.

The.

Deal.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

meh. Pudge suxx, haven;t you seen?

[Vic Sage]

yes, but he still suxx less than Schneider.

[soupcan]

Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle Dontrelle

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Vic Sage wrote: yes, but he still suxx less than Schneider.

Tho even that's becoming debatable, specially when you consider Pudge has zero defensive game anymore.

I'm all for rehabilitating D Willis tho.

[Vic Sage]

Upon closer inspection of the numbers, i note that I-Rod's OPS+ dropped off 3 years ago (2005 = 94, 2006 = 97, 2007 = 85), so its not like he's just had a bad year. And think of this -- 9 BB / 96 K last year!!!

And however much better he is than Schneider on defense (and its arguable that he isn't much better, or even as good), its certainly not worth the players and extra $9m/year he'll cost.

As for Willis, he's had 1 great year, 1 good year, 2 mediocre years and 1 bad year. So "stud" is not an apt description. Over the last few years, his BBs have gone up and his Ks have gone down. And while he's still quite young, its interesting to note that the most comparable player to him at his age was Atlanta flameout Steve Avery.

So, while he still can re-establish himself, he could also go the way of the dodo, and, again, giving up the players & $$ it'll take to get these 2 guys is HIGHLY risky.

Which is why Omar might just do it.

[Valadius]

The ESPN Nashville blog says that the Mets have talked to Toronto about A.J. Burnett, perhaps for Carlos Gomez.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Remember, it's all about the backpage splashes.

[soupcan]

So maybe the Mets don't have to bankrupt the system to get D-Train then.

25 years old, playing with a winning team with a solid defense in NYC. You know you guys want him.

Pedro, Willis, Maine, Perez. That doesn't sound too bad now does it?

If you get Santana you're going to have to give him $130-$140 mil over 7 years. History shows that eventually that'll be a bad contract. Whatever you pay and then later have to eat because of Pudge is going to be a whole lot less than what you would give to Santana and The Mets wouldn't have to give the Tiggers the same kind of package that a Santana deal would demand.

[Valadius]

Edgy DC wrote: Remember, it's all about the backpage splashes.

And sticking it to the Yankees.

[metirish]

Tigers owner came out tonight and said that while he wants the team to have a responsible payroll they do not want to or need to trade Willis for payroll reasons and the team has him slotted in as the number three starter.