Braun and Pedroia get ROY

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I thought Tulo would get a shot at the NL Award.

[Valadius]

Braun beat Tulowitski by only two points.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Braun totally deserved it. Glad they got it right.

[Valadius]

I agree, Braun did deserve it. Project his numbers out over a full season - he hits 40 homers easily.

[Frayed Knot]

You wonder if any of the voters even considered defense when casting their ballots.
Not only does Tulowitski play the tougher position, but the difference between the skill level of the two isn't just a gap, it's a fuckin chasm. Braun can hit like hell but is a BRUTAL glove man.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Agreed. Tulo was probably the best shortstop in the league --- as a rook.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Brian Bannister got a first-place vote in the AL.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Frayed Knot wrote: You wonder if any of the voters even considered defense when casting their ballots. Not only does Tulowitski play the tougher position, but the difference between the skill level of the two isn't just a gap, it's a fuckin chasm. Braun can hit like hell but is a BRUTAL glove man.

For sure, but how much more awesome does Tulowitski have to be to offset the offensive difference?

Player	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	AB	BB	Runs	2b	HR	RBI	SB	CS	Home OPS	Road OPS	Home OPS+	Road OPS+
Toolowitski	.291	.359	.479	.838	108	609	57	104	33	24	99	7	6	.960	.719	146	94
Brawnie Man	.327	.370	.634	1.004	153	451	29	91	26	34	97	15	5	1.045	.966	166	155

[Guest Edgy DC]

They don't really consider this stuff in Rookie of the Year voting --- and maybe they shouldn't --- but Tulo had a lot lot more plate appearances.

[Frayed Knot]

NAME	1st (5 pts)	2nd (3 pts)	3rd (1 pt)	TOTAL
Braun	17	14	1	128
Tulowitski	15	17	0	126
Pence	0	0	15	15
Young (Ariz)	0	0	10	10
Kendrick	0	1	4	7
Escobar	0	0	1	1
Loney	0	0	1	1

NAME	1st (5 pts)	2nd (3 pts)	3rd (1 pt)	TOTAL
Pedroia	24	4	0	132
Young (TB)	3	12	5	56
Bannister	1	8	7	36
Matsuzaka	0	2	6	12
Okajima	0	0	3	3
Fields (Chi)	0	0	1	1
Soria (KC)	0	0	1	1

[Guest Edgy DC]

EIGHT, the stubid new acronym for Edgy's Indicator of Good Hitting Teamwork says their offense gap still may be outside the range of thier defensive difference.

EIGHT = (OPS+ - 60) * PA

Tulowitzki = (108-60) * 682 = 48 * 682 = 32736
Braun = (153 - 60) * 492 = 93 * 492 = 45756

[Benjamin Grimm]

When was the last time a Mets player got even a single vote for Rookie of the Year?

Is it possible that it's all the way back to Gregg Jefferies in 1988?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

If you had told me before the season that Bannister would fare better in ROY voting than Dice-K, I'd have thought you were nuts!

[Frayed Knot]

]...but how much more awesome does Tulowitski have to be to offset the offensive difference?

I'm not even claiming that Tulowitski deserved to win, only if/how many voters even considered the defensive aspect of the game.
My guess: not many

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nah, i can think of plenty of action off the top of my head. Jay Payton came in third, Jason Isringhausen in fourth. I'll bet Reyes and Wright got some respect also.

[Valadius]

Possibly Jay Payton.

[Guest Edgy DC]

No Wright. No Seo. Reyes came in eighth, Wigginton eighth, Matsui sixth.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Where do you find the voting results?

I've long considered putting such info on the UMDB for guys who get votes but don't win Cy Young, MVP, and ROY.

[Guest Edgy DC]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/

[Benjamin Grimm]

Cool!

Thanks.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Frayed Knot wrote: NAME 1st (5 pts) 2nd (3 pts) 3rd (1 pt) TOTAL Braun 17 14 1 128 Tulowitski 15 17 0 126 Pence 0 0 15 15 Young (Ariz) 0 0 10 10 Kendrick 0 1 4 7 Escobar 0 0 1 1 Loney 0 0 1 1 NAME 1st (5 pts) 2nd (3 pts) 3rd (1 pt) TOTAL Pedroia 24 4 0 132 Young (TB) 3 12 5 56 Bannister 1 8 7 36 Matsuzaka 0 2 6 12 Okajima 0 0 3 3 Fields (Chi) 0 0 1 1 Soria (KC) 0 0 1 1

The dude who voted Kendrick 2nd (gotta be from Philly) is probably the same dude that voted Braun 3rd. These ballots are anonymous aren't they?

[Frayed Knot]

]These ballots are anonymous aren't they?

The BBWA doesn't attach names to ballots although many of the writers willingly publish their own picks when they have one.
Who votes for which award is on a rotating basis although some newspapers (NY Times for one) bar their folks from participating to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest.

[metsmarathon]

braun had 22 win shares (20.4 hitting, 1.5 fielding), tulo 25 (14.4 hitting, 10.9 fielding)

tulowitzki's warp3 is 10.6, good for 15th best all time rookie season per baseball prospectus. 36 batting runs above replacement, 16 above average, 62 fielding runs above replacement, 30 above average. (adjusted for all time)

braun's warp3 is 4.8. 56 batting runs above replacement, 42 above average, 12 fielding runs BELOW replacement, 27 below average. (adjusted for all time)

12 runs below replacement is fucking awful glovework.

braun also had 96 equivalent runs to tulo's 92 (adjusted for all time)

[A Boy Named Seo]

Damn.

[nymr83]

Neyer says Tulowitzki deserved it.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3106779&name=Neyer_Rob&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3106779%26name%3dNeyer_Rob

]The Win Shares method considers defensive value. Tulowitzki finished with 25 Win Shares; Braun finished with 22. Baseball Prospecutus's Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP) also considers defense. Tulowitzki finished with 8.5 WARP; Braun with 3.9. The massive difference in WARP is, of course, because of the massive (measured) difference in defensive value. WARP credits Tulowitzki with 49 Fielding Runs Above Replacement, while Braun is debited with minus-15 FRAR. That's essentially a six- or seven-win difference (10 runs = 1 win), which simply isn't balanced by Braun's superior hitting