Ichiro extension

[nymr83]

reportedly 5 years, 90 million. he'll be 39 when it ends.
wow.

Florida president publicly criticized the Mariners for making this deal (but who cares what FLA thinks anyway, they've proven they dont care about winning by breaking up 2 WS teams)

i think its a bit much given his age and lack of power, but its far from the worst deal i've seen lately (hello, gil meche)

[Guest Edgy DC]

What's wrong with making the deal? If it's unwise, it'll catch up with them. Why should that be any skin off of Florida's fire sale?

[nymr83]

i dont know, but the florida guy publicly criticized them which is pretty rare i think

[Frayed Knot]

Supposedly the deal goes up to $100 mil - depending, I suppose, on various incentives.

This is one of those deals that probably IS worth it to the team signing him where the same numbers for some other team is over-spending.
Ichiro is tied to that club and their Japanese ownership in a way which wouldn't be the same for another franchise.

What Fla mgmt is sore about is that one guy being over-paid tends to set a floor for other guys to shoot for. Not that they can do anything about it, but Ichiro probably wouldn't have gotten that on the open market. He's good, he ain't that good.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

He's probably a Hall of Famer right now, and Shirley oughta be one in 5 years

[Frayed Knot]

Mebbe.
But still, nice BA but little power and few walks.
The only other non power hitter getting those kind of bucks is Jeter and he's another that means more to his franchise - for image purposes alone - than he's really worth.

[nymr83]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: He's probably a Hall of Famer right now, and Shirley oughta be one in 5 years

he's actually 3 seasons short of the required 10. 3 more years of career-level production doesnt make him a HOFer to me.
a 120 OPS+ from an outfielder and a short career can't make the HOF in my book. i don't care what he did in japan, theres a place for "ambassadors" of the game and that kinda stuff but its not the players ballot and thats what i assume we're talking about.

look at the 11-year career of Albert Belle, he was twice the hitter the Ichiro is. Jim Rice was somewhat better and he played 16 years. Ichiro just doesnt cut it as a HOF outfielder.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

FWIW, I'd support Rice and maybe Belle too.

On his MLB stats alone, Ichiro is completely unique: 7 years, 7 all-star games, 6 (will be 7) most singles, 6 (may be 7) Gold Gloves, 2 batting titles (may be 3) and the career active BA leader. His singles titles already qualify him on the "black ink" test and aces James' "HOF Monitor" which attempts to measure the likeklihood of enshrinement. He's basically been the best leadoff hitter of the 2000s. ... so far.

I also definitely am putting some weight behind Ichiro's stature and cultural importance. I'm on record for considering Japanese pros, since Ichiro is the player whose done the most to prove that Japan's very best can be MLB stars too. It's not his fault draconian player rights rules kept him from competing with the best for as long as they did.

[smg58]

The last year or two of that contract will probably sting for Seattle, but the team is a contender, and if they can get over the top in the next couple of seasons then I'd say it was worth it. Assuming Ichiro's contract doesn't hamper their ability to upgrade further, that is.

[metirish]

Is he worth that contract,probably not but who is?,so did he have anything to do with Hardgrove walking away?

I can see Valentine coaching Seattle one of these years,Japanese owners,Ichrio has huge respect for him,he'd be great there.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Hey, Florida, boo hoo.

Those fans had three of the top ten players in baseball once and lost all three. More power to them.

[DocTee]

In addition to the HoF debate...

when the M's retire #51, do they do so in honor of Ichiro, or the Big Unit?

[Willets Point]

They can always do a dual thing. Plenty of precedent for it.

[nymr83]

DocTee wrote: In addition to the HoF debate... when the M's retire #51, do they do so in honor of Ichiro, or the Big Unit?

Johnson was there 8 full years and 2 partial ones, he won 4 CY Youngs in a row for the D-backs, only one witj Seattle, he had 2-4 "dominant" years in Seattle, i don't think that merits number retirement.
i am probably alot stricter than most, i'd only retire a number if a guy's numbers for that team (not taking into account what he did before he came or after he left) by themselves make him at least worthy of serious hall of fame discussion if not entry.

ichiro you cant retire after 7 years but once he's played out the 5 year deal he'll have spent 12 full seasons there as compared to randy's 8 + 2 halves. if you're retiring one or the other its certainly ichiro.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

A typical season for Ichiro produces the following line:

Games 159
Hits 230
Avg .332
OBP .378
SLG .439
OPS .817
SB 40 with 81% success rate for his career

Throw in Gold Glove defense and a strong arm that few will challenge and he is well on his way to a Hall of Fame career. He shows no signs of slowing down and his base stealing has dramatically improved the past few seasons.

There are many more dubious contracts out there than this extension represents.

[DocTee]

Another HoF OF who had a good/great, but limited run: tonight's honoree, Ralph Kiner.

[nymr83]

Rockin' Doc wrote: A typical season for Ichiro produces the following line: Games 159 Hits 230 Avg .332 OBP .378 SLG .439 OPS .817 SB 40 with 81% success rate for his career Throw in Gold Glove defense and a strong arm that few will challenge and he is well on his way to a Hall of Fame career. He shows no signs of slowing down and his base stealing has dramatically improved the past few seasons. There are many more dubious contracts out there than this extension represents.

i'm not arguing about the contract, but those numbers are NOT hall-worthy coming from an outfielder in only 7 seasons, and they wouldn't be in 10 seasons either... he's not great enough to get into the hall on a 10 year career, he needs some longevity, we'll see how long he lasts.

he has the same career OPS+ as both Shawn Green and Cliff Floyd (as well as Paul O'Neil and Ruisty Greer) now he's a better defender than any of those guys, but they've all got longevity on him.
O'neil also has 5 rings for 2 franchises and nice postseason stats including 39 homers in only 299 ABs.

[nymr83]

DocTee wrote: Another HoF OF who had a good/great, but limited run: tonight's honoree, Ralph Kiner.

Kiner's OPS+ was 29 points higher placing him 40th on the career list (Ichiro is something like 350th.)

[metirish]

Weird stuff here from Ichiro.

Ichiro taking the piss or just crazy