4/3/2007 Schaefer Commentary

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

metsmarathon wrote: so... we're going with a "vote the pitcher, and to the hitters go the scraps" strategy here?

Most voters are giving 5 points to Maine and 5 to the hitters.

Makes sense for a 10-0 game. Maine WAS the defense. There were several contributors to the offense.

[metsmarathon]

what i mean is that it seems as if the voters vote for the pitcher on an absolute scale - "how much schaefer is a 7-inning 1-hitter worth? five? ok, i'll give him five" - and from there, they divvy out the remaining points to the relievers/defense/offense, on more of a relativistic scale.

never (rarely) does the fact that the offense had a great game take away from the contributions of the starting pitcher, whereas the contributions of the starting pitcher regularly takes away from the contributions of the offense.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Yes, that's pretty much how I do it.

I start with the starter. Sometimes though I do adjust his point value down if there are other guys who deserve beer. I did that with Glavine on Opening Day.

Generally, though, I think I do more of an offense/defense thing. Some games might have 6 points worth of defense and 4 of offense. Or 2 of defense and 8 of offense. (A 15-14 win, for example.)

I don't try to reward every contributor. A guy who gets a lone ninth-inning double in a 7-1 win gets nothing from me.

[metirish]

I'll be interested to see how Beltran fairs with the voting for this series,in the three games he went 4 for 12,had 6 RBI,had the great throw to home,made a nifty sliding catch to rob Aaron Miles of a hit in the game last night.

Beltran drove in the first Mets runs Tuesday and Wednesday night,not a bad series.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't try to reward every contributor. A guy who gets a lone ninth-inning double in a 7-1 win gets nothing from me.

I hear you. But last night, the batters' effort made the pitchers' effort as much of a luxury as vice versa.

[Frayed Knot]

FWIW;
comparing last year's PotG composite to those who voted in the year-end rankings project, it looks like the PotG tended to:
- undervalue relievers: PotG put Wagner, Heliman, Sanchez, Mota, Feliciano & Bradford 4 or 6 spots lower on the Top-30 compared to where the post-year overview decided they should be.
- and overvalue starters: OHernandez (+4), Trachsel (+10!), Soler (+6) were considerably higher acc to PotG, and Pedro slightly higher (+2)

There were exceptions though as PotG had starters Perez and Maine lower, and reliever Bell higher

For positions players, while there are always going to be variations, there didn't look to be a pattern of PotG either consistantly under or over rating them.

[Guest holychicken]

My style is a bit more subjective than most, it seems.

I really only like to vote when I have watched the game becuase my votes are based on the players who were, IMO (and I stress O), the players of the game.

I feel like numbers wise LoDuca had a pretty good game. But a player of the game he was not. I could be being completely unfair to him, but all he did was get 3 meaningless singles from my perspective. It is not entirely his fault, but the game did not revolve around those singles at all.

So if my votes every look completely whacky it might be because I have man-crush on Reyes or any other met at that time and unfairly award him points he does not deserve.

And if you give me crap about it, it will be a slap in the face.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I won't give you crap, but Lo Duca also caught a third straight standout start. Somebody is working with those pitchers.

Let me sing.

Three hits and a walk and a run is doing his job well. Often hits are made meaningless because your teammates didn't support you, not because you waited until a meaningless moment to perform in zero pressure. In the first inning he knocks a one-out hit up the middle but then has to leg it out when Looper deflects it to first. Now there's a runner on for their three extra-base hitters to pick up and give the Mets the early lead. Beltran and Delgado didn't, but is his performance that much better if they did?

His line single in the third came with two outs. It's not as big an opportunity for the Mets, but through three innings, three Mets have reached base and two of them are named Lo Duca. Again, he's stranded. But, as we see later, first base is scoring position when Beltran is up.

Sixth inning: He, for the third time, singles --- this time with one out --- with Beltran coming up. Beltran homers, and a scoreless tie in the sixth inning is on it's way to becoming a 10-0 blowout. Huge. He gave the big bats three chances to break through and they finally did.

In the seventh, he grounded out with nobody on with one out in a 4-0 game, his only failure

And in the eighth, with the Mets blowing the game to 8-0, with a runner on second and one out, he walks. Boo.

The guy is hitting .385. His pitchers have a 0.67 ERA after three games. He's caught one of two would-be base-stealers. He got the tag down on his one opportunity to nail a guy at the plate. Give him some beer.

[Guest holychicken]

Edgy DC wrote: I won't give you crap, but Lo Duca also caught a third straight standout start. Somebody is working with those pitchers. Let me sing. Three hits and a walk and a run is doing his job well. Often hits are made meaningless because your teammates didn't support you, not because you waited until a meaningless moment to perform in zero pressure. In the first inning he knocks a one-out hit up the middle but then has to leg it out when Looper deflects it to first. Now there's a runner on for their three extra-base hitters to pick up and give the Mets the early lead. Beltran and Delgado didn't, but is his performance that much better if they did? His line single in the third came with two outs. It's not as big an opportunity for the Mets, but through three innings, three Mets have reached base and two of them are named Lo Duca. Again, he's stranded. But, as we see later, first base is scoring position when Beltran is up. Sixth inning: He, for the third time, singles --- this time with one out --- with Beltran coming up. Beltran homers, and a scoreless tie in the sixth inning is on it's way to becoming a 10-0 blowout. Huge. He gave the big bats three chances to break through and they finally did. In the seventh, he grounded out with nobody on with one out in a 4-0 game, his only failure And in the eighth, with the Mets blowing the game to 8-0, with a runner on second and one out, he walks. Boo.

As I said, it is not necessarily his fault that the game was not decided by his hits. He may have performed better than the number of points I gave him, but the game did not revolve around his good performance. To me, that hurts his "PoTG" rating. Although, in retrospect, i probably should have recognized him for being the player OB when Beltran smacked his first homer.

]The guy is hitting .385. His pitchers have a 0.67 ERA after three games. He's caught one of two would-be base-stealers. He got the tag down on his one opportunity to nail a guy at the plate. Give him some beer.

TBH, giving points to the catcher for calling a good game might be too complicated for me. Do most people take that into account? Should the catcher always get some kind of percentage boost to his score dependant on what you give the pitcher? Does he get points subtracted for poor performance of a pitcher? If it isn't based on the pitcher's performance I am afraid that my understanding of calling a game is not sufficient enough to separate the two.

And, BTW, this is giving me crap! WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT THAT!!!?!?!?!

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just meant to give Lo Duca some love. He needs to get some from somebody over 20.

If I throw 19 bones to ptichers, I've got to have one for their catcher. Maybe the ratio is more like 9:1. Probably somwhere between.

[metsmarathon]

i've given loduca a total of 2.3 points thus far, making him my 6th highest ranked met.

am i considered to be under 20? if so, then, um, thanks. can you buy me a beer? (i moved a year ago, and the liquor store i shop at now doesn't card me. it makes me sad. my old liquor store used to card me...)

[Gwreck]

When voting, I try to consider what factors were the most direct and proximate cause of the victory (the win being most important).

A "quality start" with a win for the starting pitcher is usually going to get 2-3 points, minimum. The first and go-ahead RBIs are always going to be more important than tacking-on. Hence, LoDuca (remember, he was 3-3 before a run was scored) and Beltran were most important offensive point-earners, with Maine easily the most important point-earner in the game. All of the additional hitting and quality relief, while nice, fall by the wayside in those sort of games.

[nymr83]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="metsmarathon"]so... we're going with a "vote the pitcher, and to the hitters go the scraps" strategy here? Most voters are giving 5 points to Maine and 5 to the hitters. Makes sense for a 10-0 game. Maine WAS the defense. There were several contributors to the offense.

i gave Maine 5 because he threw 5 shutout innings before the offense woke up. had the offense gone nuts in the 1st inning he gets less points for pitching with a huge lead the entire game

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Nymr - "i gave Maine 5 because he threw 5 shutout innings before the offense woke up. had the offense gone nuts in the 1st inning he gets less points for pitching with a huge lead the entire game"

Yup�

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

That figures into it for me, too.

If the score was 2-0 instead of 10-0, I might have given Maine a 6 for his 7 scoreless innings.

The remaining points would have been split among the relievers and whoever contributed to the scoring.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for Tuesday night's 4-1 win in St. Louis will close on Friday morning:

http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=6013

[nymr83]

2 off days the first week is killing me

[nymr83]

edgy, why do Burgos and Sele get points for pitching in a 10-run game?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Nymr -"2 off days the first week is killing me"

That gives me time to get my KTE thread done before the start of the Atlanta series.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Voting for Wednesday's 10-0 win in St. Louis will close on Saturday.

http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=6022

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Schaefer announcement at UMDB can be somewhat anticlimactic if it merely says Schaefer Mets Player of the Year Points Awardeded for This Game:

I'm thinking maybe above that should a be an announcement of Schaefer Mets Player of the Game: Tom Glavine (or whoever) with a picture of the winner.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Good point. I was thinking about that, and it will likely make most people who notice it say "Huh?"

I'll probably flesh it out at some point. It should also contain some explanation of what a Schaefer Mets Player of the Year is.