Steve Trachsel

[Guest patona314]

i still don't quite understand why Steve Trachsel is persona non grata considering the $$ similar pitchers are getting. what did he do, rape willie's dog?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I wouldn't characterize him as persona non grata. But he did reportedly disappoint Randolph when he asked out of the game with an injury in the St. Louis series.

Willie seems to have a worldview of certain people being categorial winners --- and that (again, reportedly) disqualified Trachsel from that category --- and others simply not. Now, Pedro Feliciano seemingly redeemed himself after his publickly questioning his usage got him tagged as a non-winner by Willie, so maybe Willie's labels don't have as much glue as all that.

I don't think the Mets are going to make an offer to him. But I'm pretty sure he didn't rape Randolph's dog either.

Who do you think is is similar?

[Guest patona314]

though they're all younger, they all seem to have similar #'s

suppan
ohka
marquis
jennings
meche

[Willets Point]

Trax is about the only option the Mets have left now having let all the other available pitchers slip away.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, younger is key, and becomes more key as they're getting long-term contracts.

[Guest attgig]

Willets Point wrote: Trax is about the only option the Mets have left now having let all the other available pitchers slip away.

I'd rather take Mulder, Weaver, or even Zambrano before Trachsel

[Guest Edgy DC]

This is what I've got, not including the Limas out there.

Tony Armas, 28
Bruce Chen, 29
Roger Clemens, 44
Shawn Estes, 33
Rick Helling, 36
Jason Johnson, 33
Brian Moehler, 35
Mark Mulder, 29
Tomo Ohka, 30
Ramon Ortiz, 33
Russ Ortiz, 32
Chan Ho Park, 33
Joel Pineiro, 28
Mark Redman, 32
Aaron Sele, 36
John Thomson, 33
Steve Trachsel, 36
Jeff Weaver, 30
David Wells, 43
Jerome Williams, 25
Jamey Wright, 32
Victor Zambrano, 31

This maybe belongs in the "Now What?" thread or something.

It's interesting how St. Louis won the championship with pretty much their entire rotation in a walk year. It's hard to conclude what to conclude, but it's interesting.

[Willets Point]

attgig wrote: ="Willets Point"]Trax is about the only option the Mets have left now having let all the other available pitchers slip away. I'd rather take Mulder, Weaver, or even Zambrano before Trachsel

I was being sarcastic in reference to the Mets inaction to address the crisis of the rotation except by signing the old, injured, and ineffective.

[Guest vtmet]

a 15 game "winner" that does not appear to have any teams pursuing him...if it wasn't Trashpail, I'd be surprised...Good thing for Steve, he's got a 0.71 ERA; a 0.95 WHIP and a .213 BAA in RFK over his career...and the Nats always need pitchers, so he might get a job offer eventually...

[Guest KC]

>>>i still don't quite understand why Steve Trachsel is persona non grata considering the $$ similar pitchers are getting. what did he do, rape willie's dog?<<<

No one wants him ... why should the Mets (or you)? You don't "quite" un-
derstand it or you don't at all? Oh the drama, the fancy words, the canine
abuse .... *yawn*

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Have some respect for the guy. He had the best years of his career for the right team, won more than he lost for a team that lost more than it won, had a shitty start and a poor ending but fairly solid 140 or so starts in the middle.

[nymr83]

i don't want to bash traschel's Met-career right now, I just want to make sure he isn't being brought back because 2006 was bad and 2007 isn't looking any more promising

[Guest KC]

JD: >>>Have some respect for the guy.<<<

I had my ups and downs with Trax and I do appreciate his Mets' history.
Telling Mr. Beachball that he's being over-dramatic is a little different than
not giving up some some respect.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I was responding to the mean-spirited and childish post above yours.

[Guest patona314]

="KC"]>>>i still don't quite understand why Steve Trachsel is persona non grata considering the $$ similar pitchers are getting. what did he do, rape willie's dog?<<< No one wants him ... why should the Mets (or you)? You don't "quite" un- derstand it or you don't at all? Oh the drama, the fancy words, the canine abuse .... *yawn*

sounds like you gotta thing for willie's dog...

[metsmarathon]

patona314 wrote: though they're all younger, they all seem to have similar #'s

trachsel 36 15-8 164 IP 4.97 ERA 87 ERA+
suppan 31 12-7 190 IP 4.12 ERA 107 ERA+
ohka 30 4-5 97 IP 4.82 ERA 93 ERA+ (unsigned)
marquis 27 14-16 194 IP 6.02 ERA 73 ERA+
jennings 27 9-13 212 IP 3.78 ERA 127 ERA+ (not free agent)
meche 27 11-8 187 IP 4.48 ERA 97 ERA+


how are any of these guys similar to trachsel? all of them had better seasons, save jason marquis and an injured tomo ohka, and they're all a heck of a lot younger, too.

do you really think a 37 year old trachsel represents an increased likelihood of a good season in 2007 than any other of the above players?

trachsel isn't getting any play because significantly below average 37 year old right-handed pitchers don't often get much play, particuarly when their last memorable moment is viewed widely as him laying down and begging out of a big huge game in as non-winnerly a fashion as possible.

dog-rape aside, that is.

based on last season's numbers, its hardly shocking that he hasn't been getting much attention. based on last season's last performance, its very much expected.

that jeff weaver isn't getting much play is more surprising.

[nymr83]

evryone on that list is either flat-out better than traschel or ALOT younger (and therfore more likely to rebound)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think there's really a crisis in the rotation. Nor do I think the Mets have been inactive.

I mean, high-profile starters aren't supposed to be dealt this time of year, but Kris Benson was. I'm not really predicting the Mets will make a move. I think, as the season approaches, they're starting to get curious about what they have, and then maybe they'll move for a starter a month or two into the season if their arms aren't road-ready.

The depth chart looks a bit like this. Dig it and enjoy watching younger guys leapfrog the older guys and maybe the older guys fighting to hold them off.

Glavine
O. Hernandez
Maine
Perez
Williams
Pelfrey
Soler
Humber
Heilman
Vargas
Bostick
McLane
McGinley (had some success as a starter this year, why not?)
Collazo
Standridge
Pinango
Parnell
Smith

[nymr83]

i think Maine is 2nd and Pelfrey is already ahead of Williams.
Heilman is interesting, if the rest of the bullpen is doing well in April but some starters are struggling how many guys need to fail for Heilman to be moved? I'd try him out as a starter before I'd go to Vargas for sure. Is Humber or Soler going to get an extended look before him?
One thing I wouldn't do is have him make a spot start when he's the 7th/8th inning guy. If they're going to move him to the rotation it should last at least a few weeks, and it might entail a trip to AA first to stretch him out in a couple of minor league games.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I do believe Evan McLane was traded for Shawn Green.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're right! McGinley moves up.

My thinking is that Williams was in the rotation at the end of the year and Pelfrey wasn't, so he's currently ahead. I think that'll likely change by the end of spring training, but...

I guess we'll see early enough.

This group may not blow minds, and I understand the vulnerable feeling with Martinez out and Glavine and Hernandez old, but what we have to remember is (1) we retain the chips to deal, (2) several of those guys that are ripe have a lot of upside and we may want to look at all of them before dealing, and (3) everybody needs pitching --- or thinks they do.

Oh, I remembr a year --- musta been ought-two, I guess. Hard times, my lad, hard times. Everybody was delighted with the shiny batsmen, but oh, they had concerns about pitching. Pitching, pitching, pitching, that's all you heard about. The Mets we're entering the season with a rotation of Leiter, Trachsel, Astacio, Estes, and D'Amico. Broken down and broken-hearted, folks said.

And you know, that team did fail. It failed mightily. But the pitching was more or less alright. Held it's own, it did.

[RealityChuck]

Hey, the Mets won 97 games with 13 different starting pitchers (they should have started Humber in the final game to get 14, even if he only pitched an inning or two). It wasn't a case of Trachsel being lucky as much as it was a case of a very strong offense providing enough runs to make him a 15-game winner.

The offense looks about as good for 2007 as it was for 2006. Valentin may drop, but he hits #8. DiLuca may not be able to hit his numbers, but he should still be pretty solid (his high average was partially a function of hitting behind Reyes -- he got more fastballs as they tried to keep Reyes from stealing, and got quite a few extra hits as infielders got out of position trying to stop Reyes from stealing second. And hitting in front of Beltran helped). But, overall, there shouldn't be much drop.

Thus, the team doesn't need five overpowering pitchers. That's how the MFY tried to have it, and it works for fantasy baseball, but in the real world, you just need five guys who can go six innings every four days and keep the game close.

Could the staff be better? Of course. But you don't need the staff to be great; you need it to be good enough. Trachsel was good enough last year, and the various options seem like they can be good enough, too.

Bonus: If Pedro's back, then he'll be fresh when the postseason comes along.

[Willets Point]

You're trying to reassure me and you pull out 20-freaking-02 as your example!!! Oy!

[Guest Edgy DC]

The thing about 2002 was that our slap-dash pitching was fifth in the league.

Our revamped (and hugely invested in) offense was 13th.

I imagine they're not done building, and I share the trepidation --- but I'm excited that at least some of the juniors will see serious varsity time.

[nymr83]

]Trachsel was good enough last year

i don't think a 5 ERA is ever "good enough," when someone that age puts up an ERA that high its time to part ways.
i'd be interested (but i'm lazy) in the rebound rates, based on age, of pitcher's who had a bad year (bad by their own standards, like an ERA at least half a run higher than their career avg.) it seems pretty intuitive that the older you get the less likely you are to revert to your career avg or better the following year, but i'm not sure if anyone has ever crunched the numbers and it would be a hell of a project.

[Guest cleonjones11]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think there's really a crisis in the rotation. Nor do I think the Mets have been inactive. I mean, high-profile starters aren't supposed to be dealt this time of year, but Kris Benson was. I'm not really predicting the Mets will make a move. I think, as the season approaches, they're starting to get curious about what they have, and then maybe they'll move for a starter a month or two into the season if their arms aren't road-ready. The depth chart looks a bit like this. Dig it and enjoy watching younger guys leapfrog the older guys and maybe the older guys fighting to hold them off. Glavine O. Hernandez Maine Perez Williams Pelfrey Soler Humber Heilman Vargas Bostick McLane McGinley (had some success as a starter this year, why not?) Collazo Standridge Pinango Parnell Smith

We have no legimate 1 or 2 Glavine is a 3 on a championship team.

[Guest cleonjones11]

Trachsels disappearing act..Who knows maybe he got caught in the sack and had to see the wifes lawyer?

[Guest Edgy DC]

"Legitimate number one" is a foggy notion that's hard to define. What's out there is what's out there.

Who was number three on the Cards this year? Jeff Weaver?

[Guest cleonjones11]

Edgy DC wrote: "Legitimate number one" is a foggy notion that's hard to define. What's out there is what's out there. Who was number three on the Cards this year? Jeff Weaver?

Edgy,,you're right...Used to be some pitchers were automatic..Gibson,Koufax,Unit,Seaver.Ryan....

Now...most have a 5 that are in flux...

What if Pelfrey and Humber breakout at the same time in July? Nobody would be happier than me. I'm not paranoid but the idea of Glavine as a 1 with 2-5 all up in the air is a bit touchy.

[Guest patona314]

="cleonjones11"] Edgy DC wrote: "Legitimate number one" is a foggy notion that's hard to define. I'm not paranoid but the idea of Glavine as a 1 with 2-5 all up in the air is a bit touchy. glavine hasn't been a no.1 since 94. orlando was never a no.1 either was zito. looks like the young guns are holding the fort until pedro returns. this might be a good thing in the long run. lets see who holds up and who doesn't.

KC Jan 05 2007 10:44 PM

I've pretty much written off Pedro until he shows otherwise. I never really thought about it ... but am I the only one in this thinking?

patona314 Jan 05 2007 10:49 PM

KC wrote: I've pretty much written off Pedro until he shows otherwise. I never really thought about it ... but am I the only one in this thinking? mark my words, pedro is leaving this league with a BANG. f**k the last year on his contract. the mets already made up that money in pedro jerseys.

KC Jan 05 2007 10:59 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 05 2007 11:02 PM

BANG? Yeah, the beach balls he's gonna be throwing are gonna have some POP!!!

ScarletKnight41 Jan 05 2007 11:00 PM

KC wrote: I've pretty much written off Pedro until he shows otherwise. I never really thought about it ... but am I the only one in this thinking? I agree. Anything we get from him from this point forward is gravy.

patona314 Jan 05 2007 11:03 PM

the beachball is sarcism. i actually love the guy. a little less than one year to rest his weary arm and then pitch 15 games in 07. you tell me................ and since this is steve's thread, sign him to a minor league contract OMAR.

KC Jan 05 2007 11:13 PM

I was being sarcastic.

Rockin' Doc Jan 05 2007 11:26 PM

KC - "I've pretty much written off Pedro until he shows otherwise. I never really thought about it ... but am I the only one in this thinking?" No. I hope I'm wrong, but I have doubts that Pedro will ever be a vital part of the Mets rotation again. A torn rotator cuff is bad enough, but compound that with his toe, hip problems, and the general effects of age and his future success looks highly questionable to me.

patona314 Jan 05 2007 11:29 PM

he's 36 years old w/a year to rest and he is the 2nd best pitcher in our generation... give him a shot please.

Nymr83 Jan 06 2007 01:31 AM

]glavine hasn't been a no.1 since 94. orlando was never a no.1 either was zito. One can plausibly argue that el duque was the best pitcher on the '99 Yankees. Zito was the best pitcher on the A's in 2002 and maybe 2005,

SteveJRogers Jan 06 2007 09:03 AM

Nymr83 wrote: ]glavine hasn't been a no.1 since 94. orlando was never a no.1 either was zito. One can plausibly argue that el duque was the best pitcher on the '99 Yankees. Zito was the best pitcher on the A's in 2002 and maybe 2005, I think Cleon was being semantical. Like Bob Ojeda was the best starter on the 86 Mets but Gooden was still the no. 1 ace of the team.

KC Jan 06 2007 09:17 AM

Semantical? That's like the third word you've kinda made up this week.

cooby Jan 06 2007 09:19 AM

Yeah, cut it out

SteveJRogers Jan 06 2007 10:30 AM

KC wrote: Semantical? That's like the third word you've kinda made up this week. I'll give you my need for putting "al" at the end of semantics, but usually I'm misspelling an actual word.

cleonjones11 Jan 06 2007 03:32 PM

It just seems most or all teams seem to do yearly patchwork to build a rotation. San Fran did well... The good news with the new park and network is the Mets will almost always have the opportunity to buy whatever they really need... About Pedro...If he never pitches for the Mets again he's earned his money. He gave the Mets a fee agent legitimacy and changed our image in a very positive way. You cant buy advertising like that. I heard Boras was pissed the Mets got Beltran on the cheap compared to this years circus and wanted an eigth year for Zito at which point Omar said he had a plane to catch. Good for Omar..

patona314 Jan 09 2007 08:13 AM

Marty Noble's take on trachsel http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070107&content_id=1774646&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

Nymr83 Jan 09 2007 03:16 PM

]I heard Boras was pissed the Mets got Beltran on the cheap compared to this years circus and wanted an eigth year for Zito at which point Omar said he had a plane to catch. Good for Omar.. where did you hear that? i may hate boras but i'd hate to think he'd fuck a client over because a past client didn't get what boras wanted him to.

cleonjones11 Jan 09 2007 05:25 PM

Told to me first hand by a Sports Illustrated sportswriter in the cafeteria at the Time Life building

Nymr83 Jan 09 2007 09:40 PM

ah, hearsay.

patona314 Jan 09 2007 11:18 PM

cleonjones11 wrote: I heard Boras was pissed the Mets got Beltran on the cheap compared to this years circus and wanted an eigth year for Zito at which point Omar said he had a plane to catch. Good for Omar.. didn't know beltran could pitch. couldn't nym at least sign trax to a minor league deal?

Nymr83 Jan 10 2007 12:52 AM

what makes you think he wants one? If Gil Meche can get 5 years and $55 million, Steve Traschel can get a major-league contract without stooping to accepting a minor-league deal from the Mets.

patona314 Jan 10 2007 09:09 AM

Nymr83 wrote: what makes you think he wants one? If Gil Meche can get 5 years and $55 million, Steve Traschel can get a major-league contract without stooping to accepting a minor-league deal from the Mets. really? there has not been one peep about trax anywhere, and i've been looking.

soupcan Jan 10 2007 09:12 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 10 2007 09:15 AM

I read Rockies and Cubs were talking to Trax. ]I heard Boras was pissed the Mets got Beltran on the cheap compared to this years circus and wanted an eigth year for Zito at which point Omar said he had a plane to catch. Good for Omar.. If this is true I like it.

Edgy DC Jan 10 2007 09:13 AM

Shall we take bets on whether Steve Trachsel gets a major league deal? I'm on the yes side.

Edgy DC Jan 10 2007 09:15 AM

Ooops, there's a peep this morning, and we may find out soon. WASHINGTON -- In need of depth in the starting rotation, the Nationals have offered contracts to right-handers Tony Armas Jr., Ramon Ortiz, Steve Trachsel, Jorge Sosa and Jerome Williams, according to multiple sources outside of the organization. The offers range from Minor League contracts to $3 million, according to one of the sources. It is believed that the Nationals are willing to sign some of these veteran pitchers because they don't want to rush their prospects, such as Collin Balester, Matt Chico and Colton Willems, to the big leagues.