KTE: The Hateful, Second-Place Phillies

[G-Fafif]

I just discovered it's my turn to Know Thy Enemy. I've really got to read some of these threads more closely.

Not having had time to do much/any research, I can tell you this:

I hate the Phillies.

I know I hate the Phillies.

I have not one, but two books sitting in my office about the collapse of the 1964 Phillies. I think I'll start reading one of them tonight just so there will be something to gloat over in case things do not go well in Philadelphia this week.

They should go well. We are a better team than the Phillies, but when has that mattered?

If precedent holds, these things are likely to happen, despite how marvy we are compared to the rest of the world:

� Bobby Abreu will come to bat with the bases loaded and scare us spitless.
� Jimmy Rollins will split a gap or two.
� Chase Utley will get a backbreaking hit.
� Brett Myers will strike out somebody who shouldn't strike out with runners on.
� There will be at least game decided by one run and even if we win it, it will feel like a loss most of the way.
� A ball will hit the outjutting stands down one of the lines and bounce the wrong way, whether it's for or against us, probably against us. It happened a hundred times at the Vet and it's happened a dozen times at the Cit.
� Mets fans will be louder than Phillies fans at the start. Phillies fans will be loud enough at the end.
� Aaron Heilman will throw a live ball away or Cliff Floyd will toss a live ball into the stands or Lastings Milledge will tag up too soon or Jose Reyes won't get the handle or David Wright won't be guarding the line when he should or be guarding the line when he shouldn't be and Carlos Beltran will be playing too deep.

These things happen to us in Philadelphia. So close, but yet so far.

Our starters are Glavine, who doesn't have a great record against them; Hernandez, still an X factor; and Trachsel, who will complain that the sun is at an odd angle Thursday afternoon and it will completely mess him up. We face Ryan Madson (sounds like a Phillie, doesn't he?), Brett Myers (he may not always beat us but he seems to) and Cory Lidle (I got his attention at Tiger Stadium once for a picture but I don't care for him anymore). Billy Wagner will finally see action and if the boobirds get to him, he won't admit it but we'll all figure it out. Tom Gordon will seem hittable but that never helped us against Jose Mesa.

The statistical possibilities in this series:

� We take three of three, increase our lead to 9-1/2. That will all but end the race.
� We take two of three, increase our lead to 7-1/2. That will feel real good.
� We take one of three, decrease our lead to 5-1/2. It gives the Phillies some hope, but doesn't affect us all that terribly.
� We take none of three, decrease our lead to 3-1/2. This will change the tone of today's back pages dramatically so that by Friday the Mets will be chumps in the papers and Mike Francesa will remind us that "you don't win back the city because of one weekend in Arizona, folks." Then he'll choke on a doughnut and we'll all cheer wildly.

By now, you've all probably been reminded that the Mets and Phillies have never played for anything of mutual substance. That's always fascinated me. It's a non-existent rivalry in the Dodger-Giant, Cardinal-Cub sense. I only fiercely hate the Phillies when we play them, I have to admit. I've been to four games in Philadelphia ('86, '96, '99, '04), all Mets games, all Mets losses. There was no reason for any Phillie fan to give me a hard time over my choice of gear but I don't get the sense they would. In the Vet's version of the upper deck in 1986, one of them kept going on out loud for everybody's benefit about how much better the Flyers were than the Rangers. When you're groping for other sports, you know you're having a bad year.

Five reasons to hate the Phillies if you don't want to use the standings as a guide.

� Racist bastards. OK, it was 1947, but let's not let them off the hook. Eff you Ben Chapman, wherever you're rotting.
� Jim Bunning. Thanks for ruining a perfectly good new stadium. And you're not much of a senator from what I hear.
� 26-7. How many times will Ron Darling reference that 1985 blowout over the next three days?
� Unclinched. Mike Schmidt said, "they're not gonna celebrate on our field" in September 1986 and we didn't. Congratulations, you finished only 21-1/2 out.
� Dallas Green. Did he ever stop being one of them even when he was one of us?

Pat Burrell's too easy a reason, but him, too.

Let's Go Mets.

[Theoldmole]

My daughter came up from Washington, I came down from NY, and we caught a game in Philly. Doc Gooden struck out 16, and lost the game 1-0 on a balk.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Greg makes me want to burn my keyboard and smash my fingers some days.

The best thing about the 26-7 game, better even than having been the first offense the Mets had provided in about two weeks, is that the biggest donors to the Phillie cause that day --- Calvin Schiraldi and Joe Sambito, giving up 10 runs apiece --- each ended up pitching in Game Six.

[Willets Point]

I'm surprised a Burrell home run (or two or three or six) isn't mentioned among the things likely to happen.

Good work G. I hate the Phillies more now.

[G-Fafif]

If I'm not mistaken, the Red Sox either signed or were going to sign Tom Gorman to a minor league deal in '86. Would have been nice to have had him in reserve should have Game Six gone to an eleventh inning.

(Keep those fingers healthy. We need them.)

[Elster88]

Let's put them away this weekend. A 9 and a half game lead sounds good.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I've seen lotsa Phillies-Mets dustups over the years and my record's better than yours. But in the spirit of knowing the enemy, and hating them, here's one that sticks with me. The pbp in the 9th will hurt.

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08130PHI1993.htm

Anthony Young btw would lose his 15th game later in this series, also being victimimized by a multirun inning (the 8th this time)

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

The possibility of a 9� game lead is very enticing.

Cory Lidle's ancestor invented the steamboat.

Mets-Phillies is a big rivalry, but the only problem is that the fans of one of the two teams are completely unaware that the rivalry exists. I enjoy that the Phillies fans hate the Mets and the Mets fans rarely give the Phillies a thought.

Prominent players that the Mets and Phillies have shared (off the top of my head): Tug McGraw, Richie Ashburn, Lenny Dykstra, Richie Hebner, Willie Montanez.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Tug McGraw, Richie Ashburn, Lenny Dykstra, Richie Hebner, Willie Montanez

Roger McDowell, Nino Espinosa, Jerry Koosman, Cory Freakin' Lidle. Wally Backman, Todd Pratt, Dennis Cook, and Turk Wendell....

I think we should put them all into a legacy free agent pool. Each game from this day forward, the winning team gets to draft 100% of a legacy.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Holy crap. Can't forget Frank Thomas, who went from the Mets to Phils just for the purpose of whacking a Phillie with a bat.

[Frayed Knot]

]In the Vet's version of the upper deck in 1986, one of them kept going on out loud for everybody's benefit about how much better the Flyers were than the Rangers. When you're groping for other sports, you know you're having a bad year.

Some buds & I did a weekend thing in Philly one year (late '90s I guess) while the Mets were in town for an early Sept series. Had some good natured fun w/the Philly phaithful (not upper deck) as the two teams split the Sat/Sun games. But as the Mets started pulling away w/the Sunday contest and the locals were running out of things to say, they pulled out what they thought would be the killer material by yelling; 'the Eagles are gonna kick the Giants butts tonight', referring to the seasons-opening sunday night tilt in the Meadowlands set to go about 4 hours hence. What they hadn't counted on was that my crew consisted of 2 big-time Jets fans - who wouldn't piss on the Gints if on fire - plus 1 Steeler fan who promptly joined them in retorting; 'GOOD! ... Hope they do!'.
The poor locals were so confused at that point that they simply turned mum for the rest of the game.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

You know, the Philadelphia Phillies shouldn't even exist. By all rights, the Athletics should have won custody of Philadelphia, and the Phillies should have moved to Kansas City (or wherever) and changed their name.

It was just a quirk of historical timing that the brief period in which the Phils were more popular than the A's came at the time when franchises began to move.

The Whiz Kids probably saved the franchise and doomed Connie Mack's former team.

[soupcan]

John Stearns, Bud Harrelson, Larry Bowa.

Granted, these guys barely played for the other team but still prominent names.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Those last two are easy --- they're practically dopplegangers of one another. I'd be delighted to relinquish all claim on the legacy of Larry Bowa in exchange for Bud Harrelson being wiped from the Phillie books.

[Theoldmole]

Edgy - I agree with you about Greg.

[nymr83]

="Willets Point"]Good work G. I hate the Phillies more now.

you hate them more now but do you Know them more?

[Elster88]

That was a fun read, G-FAFIF.

[MFS62]

There' something about having to describe the Phillies that makes these KTEs very personal and very different.

Great job.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

We win. I pick McGraw.

[Elster88]

BTW, I have a feeling that the Phillies are going to blast the hell out of El Duque today and that he won't reach the sixth inning.

[soupcan]

[Elster88]

Not a pessimist.

Just a realist.

El Duque's Met ERA was lowered to 4.05 by his 9 inning, 1 run performance. His season ERA was lowered to 5.48.

[MFS62]

They have a very agressive hitting lineup. That should be the kind of team against which el Duque would do well.
(I hope that won't go into the category of famous last words)

Later

[Elster88]

Elster88 wrote: [Hernandez] won't reach the sixth inning.

I cheated.

[MFS62]

Elster88 wrote: Elster88 wrote: [Hernandez] won't reach the sixth inning. I cheated.

How?
Did you seed the clouds?

Later

[Guest sharpie]

Elster, how will Trachsel do today?

[Elster88]

7 IP, 2-3 ER.

[Guest sharpie]

Elster must be eating crow after Trachsel's 6 inning, 4 earned run outing.

[G-Fafif]

Addendum to my original scouting report:

Know that the Phillies are phinished. Divisionwise, anyway.

[Elster88]

sharpie wrote: Elster must be eating crow after Trachsel's 6 inning, 4 earned run outing.

It needed salt.