David Wright for Miguel Cabrera & Dontrelle Willis!

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Incredible. Just incredible.

And to think I wondered why the Mets were a screwed up organization. It's because you want them to be screwed up, isn't it? Could we have a show of hands, please? How many would turn down WIllis and Cabreara straight up for Wright today, with no guarantees of anything other than that the deal will be taken off the table forever if you don't sign the papers right this second? I think I'll take a poll.

This is unfuckingbelievable. You can't make up shit like this.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Willis and Cabrera combined for over 10 times the number of MVP votes that Wright got last year. They both made the All-Star team, while he did not. Cabrera is younger than Wright. (Willis is a few months older). I honestly wouldn't invent such a scenario where Mets fans would be thinking this wasn't a great deal, because no one could possibly believe I wasn't just talking idle and cruel smack about Mets fans's intelligence.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.shtml#NLmvp

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

]I was also coming at it from a "Can we not do what the Yankees, Knicks and Rangers have been doing" angle as well as this would be right out of that playbook of taking "home grown" stars and turning the team into a "Glorified ATM" Baseball move, yeah its a no brainer, but there are different angles and the Mets should fall into the "We make this deal because we can" way of doing things

Exactly how has this worked for the Rangers and Knicks in doing their rosters by this model?

Ditto with all high payroll teams other than the Yankees/Red Sox since the 90's began?

[metsmarathon]

can you imagine how those yankee fans would always say they'd never want to trade jeter for arod?

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

metsmarathon wrote: can you imagine how those yankee fans would always say they'd never want to trade jeter for arod?

Or how about Bernie for Bonds, and this was PRE Roids!

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

metsmarathon wrote: can you imagine how those yankee fans would always say they'd never want to trade jeter for arod?

You know, I don't even get your point. Are you omitting "and we'll throw in Pedro with Arod" because you think Willis is a small part of this projected trade, or because you think you're making some kind of point, or because you think this is pissing me off somehow? I don't see what you're doing besides making a parody of yourselves.

Is this cleverer than I'm capable of imagining?

[Elster88]

What happens when the year ends, if we don't win the WS, and Miggy and Willis walk?

[nymr83]

Elster88 wrote: What happens when the year ends, if we don't win the WS, and Miggy and Willis walk?

Bret cites it as another example of why the Mets are stupid.

[Guest KC]

BS: >>>Is this cleverer than I'm capable of imagining?<<<

I doubt anyone here can even approach knowing what you're
capable of imagining.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ="metsmarathon"]can you imagine how those yankee fans would always say they'd never want to trade jeter for arod? You know, I don't even get your point. Are you omitting "and we'll throw in Pedro with Arod" because you think Willis is a small part of this projected trade, or because you think you're making some kind of point, or because you think this is pissing me off somehow? I don't see what you're doing besides making a parody of yourselves. Is this cleverer than I'm capable of imagining?

As a baseball trade, Wells for Clemens and Soriano for ARod were stone cold great baseball moves, even worked out for the other team (in terms of success of the accquired player)

But in the grand scheme of things they represented the "Once Again The Rich Get Richer" mentality of having an all-star at every position that makes the Yankees "The Evil Empire" and cause people to hate them, and in a large case hate baseball because they see only the good players flock to New York, Boston, St Louis, Chicago and LA

Granted the Mets should never make a move based on public opinion, and maybe I'd feel better if it was Pelfrey and Millidge for Cabrera and Willis, but part of the joke would be "Yeah, and the Mets can move Cabrera back to the outfield when they sign Wright back as a FA in a couple of years"

This trade is EXACTLY whats wrong with the system. Maybe there needs to be a cap, maybe not I don't know, but this kind of dealing does lead to more and more bad feelings about the Big Market Teams being the only players and teams like the Pirates, Rockies, Marlins, Royals be forever minor leagues to the Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, White Sox, Cardinals, Cubs and Dodgers.

And will eventually continue to have MLB go down the road its currently in, it's ultimate destruction and ranking behind the PBA (bowling league) and Major Indoor Lacrosse in the national sports following conscience

So yes, THAT is why the move is a dumb move. Not for the here and now with the Mets, but the future of the very sport, which gives me more and more reasons why I should just stop watching and caring. I'm not sure why I still do, but there have been plenty who HAVEN"T come back since 1994, there are probably many in KC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Toronoto, Baltimore, Houston, Arlington, Miami, Atlanta who haven't come back, who never WILL comeback and baseball is losing more and more fans every day, exactly because of deals like these!

Steve Rogers

[metsmarathon]

do we even know if cabrera and willis can handle new york?

[Theoldmole]

Is anyone discussing this seriously?

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

TheOldMole wrote: Is anyone discussing this seriously?

No, just a sports radio fantasy trade designed to give the Mets the 2006 World Championship

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Here'an idea: Let's keep talkradio on talkradio.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Here'an idea: Let's keep talkradio on talkradio.

Not when its describing a form of business that is leading to the destruction of the business as a whole.

If you want an All Star Team, fine, just don't cry when the MLB goes to 4 team leagues and that MLB is trying to climb over MLS, Lacrosse and Bowling for main stream coverage, because trades like this are the reason why its going in that direction

There is a bigger picture here that goes beyond a simple talk-radio suggestion

[nymr83]

earth to mlbbaseballtalk: attendance is up league-wide.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Nymr83 wrote: earth to mlbbaseballtalk: attendance is up league-wide.

Oh don't listen to that malarkey! What about the raitings on TV? Wanna bet attendance drops once pro and college football return in August?

Attendance is up. Is that ALL you have to prove that MLB is healthy? MLB has been dying a slow and painfull death since the day Donald Fehr took over the players union. It doesn't matter how many fannies are in the seats because the important stats are in the eyeballs and the CA-CHING of merchandice sold, and those are falling way behind.

Baseball is all but D-E-A-D DEAD and a complete non-issue in Philly, KC, Toronto, Miami, Colorado, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Detroit, San Francisco, Oakland, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, Tampa, San Diego, Washington DC, Seattle, Cincinnatti, Atlanta, Los Angeles ect. Basically EVERY FUCKING MARKET IN THIS COUNTRY EXCEPT New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis.

Baseball is a regional sport in fact its a ONE FUCKING REGION SPORT, the Northeast corridor known as New York-Boston, and the sooner people running that realize it and make the approriate changes I guaran FUCKING tee that MLB will be behind the MLS (and not because of the soccer surge thats been promised since the 1960's) and the WNBA within 5 years.

If that means a salery cap, hell if that means pulling an NHL and cancelling an entire season or more just to restructure the whole system, then I am ALL FOR IT!

The game is fucking dying, and its attitudes like the thought of even SUGGESTING this kind of deal are the reasons why

[Guest Edgy DC]

]I guaran FUCKING tee that MLB will be behind the MLS (and not because of the soccer surge thats been promised since the 1960's) and the WNBA within 5 years.

If you reject the numbers offered, by what measure are you proposing this guarantee?

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Oh about those attendance figures, thats EXACTLY why Freddie Coupon (Yes I'm bringing the nickname back out of mothballs) wants a smaller fucking ballpark! The attendance figures are a figment of a giant scam that makes Enron look like a simple clerical error!

Smaller ballparks=more dates with greater percentage of capcity.

Don't get me wrong, I want a new Shea as much as the next guy, but don't believe the attendance is up, because its utter and complete bull crap foistered upon by a bunch of lying liars who are pretty much a bunch Kevin Bacons at the end of Animal House, chanting "All is well!" just before being steamrolled by an angry mob.

Well that mob is the NFL, college football, college basketball, the NBA, the NHL, NASCAR, Golf, ect running over a dying carcas that is Major League Baseball.

Kiss the game goodbye folks, its been a sham since coming back in 1994 because of the blind eye to steriods, its been a sham because of the eniquities in the system that lets the MFY BE the MFY. Hell remember the 1980's when the Yanks kept MISSING the playoffs? That won't EVER HAPPEN AGAIN because they (thanks to ideas like Sal's that lead to every good player becoming either a Yankee, Met or Red Sox) will replace one All Star with ANOTHER ALL STAR!

And its been a sham because the last FUCKING chance MLB had to shut down and change the whole fucking structure was shot down because both sides were guilt-tripped into signing a flawed CBA that somehow KEPT THINGS THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN thanks to 9/11! Okay, I'd be alittle outraged but you know what, NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED IF YOU WENT OUT THAT SOON AFTER 9/11! BECAUSE HARDLY ANYONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR PATHETIC STUPID FAKE SPORT BEFORE 9/11 AND THEY WEREN"T GOING, AND THEY HAVEN"T AFTER 9/11!

In other words, baseball since 1994 is no better than the XFL or any of the pro-wrestling circuts!

Thats the bottom line. Thats why the deal is a moronic deal. THATS why it was moronic for that caller to suggest it and thats why its mornoic for people like Warner Wolf (who didn't know Francisco Rodriguez from Francisco Cordero) and Salamander Q to suggest that the Mets not hesitate if the Marlins bring it up!

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Edgy DC wrote: ]I guaran FUCKING tee that MLB will be behind the MLS (and not because of the soccer surge thats been promised since the 1960's) and the WNBA within 5 years. If you reject the numbers offered, by what measure are you proposing this guarantee?

I'm rejecting the use of the numbers as an end-all be-all of the health of a dying professional sport. The measure I'll use is in national coverage (once the Northeast elitists in Bristol University realize that baseball is dead and stop covering it like people give a damn in New Mexico, Nebraska, Oregon, Kentucky, Philly, KC, Texas, Florida, ect) TV, radio and internet ratings, advertizing revenue and merchandise revenue

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

metsmarathon wrote: do we even know if cabrera and willis can handle new york?

Did we know David Wright could handle New York? Frankly I'm getting alittle sick of this reasoning as well.

Yes there are the Ed Whitsons, Roy Smalleys, Bobby Bonillas or the world, but lets stop analysing trades, even hypotheicals with "But how would they handle New York?"

Please just please.

[Elster88]

Bret, what happens when the year ends, if we don't win the WS, and Miggy and Willis walk? Then was it a good trade?

[Guest KC]

E: >>>Miggy and Willis walk? Then was it a good trade?<<<

That's the beauty of being a baseball genius and constantly critical, you can
never really be wrong. If that happens you start a thread saying the Mets lack
the brainpower or the initiative to get things done.

I remember a funny line by either ambler or maybe paulie back in the really
olden days of Mets Online and we were going back and forth on something
and one of them told me, "hey, you can be smart too - just start agreeing
with us".

I'm considering just giving up the ghost and agreeing with everything Bret
says - I'm clearly outmatched, might as join up.

[Elster88]

I didn't realize that Cabrera and Willis are apparently not free agents until 2010 (from the other thread). If that's true, then you have to make the trade. But of course if that's true, then Florida is even less likely to make it. Not that it was likely in the first place.

[Guest KC]

But, but

[nymr83]

]Baseball is all but D-E-A-D DEAD and a complete non-issue in Philly, KC, Toronto, Miami, Colorado, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Detroit, San Francisco, Oakland, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, Tampa, San Diego, Washington DC, Seattle, Cincinnatti, Atlanta, Los Angeles ect. Basically EVERY FUCKING MARKET IN THIS COUNTRY EXCEPT New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis.

The attendance figures for the last decade disprove these bullshit allegations of yours, back it up or shut it up.

] Baseball is a regional sport in fact its a ONE FUCKING REGION SPORT, the Northeast corridor known as New York-Boston, and the sooner people running that realize it and make the approriate changes I guaran FUCKING tee that MLB will be behind the MLS (and not because of the soccer surge thats been promised since the 1960's) and the WNBA within 5 years.

Any amount of money you want says that this isn't true. Put your money where your mouth is, we can put it in trust with a board member.

[nymr83]

]Attendance is up. Is that ALL you have to prove that MLB is healthy? MLB has been dying a slow and painfull death since the day Donald Fehr took over the players union. It doesn't matter how many fannies are in the seats because the important stats are in the eyeballs and the CA-CHING of merchandice sold, and those are falling way behind.

Show us these numbers, unless of course this is pure speculation on your part (which i'm sure it is.)

[Frayed Knot]

Suffice to say that the 2006 award for the most unitelligible and irrational screed on the CPF has been locked up early this year.

[nymr83]

I may launch a tirade against the Mets that dwarfs this rant if they ever put Julio into a big spot (barring his turning a corner FIRST.)

[Guest *62]

Quick reality check ............

Last 5 World Series Champs

Chicago
Boston
Florida
Anaheim
Arizona


One region sport.