Booing Beltran, Split from 4/06 IGT

[Centerfield]

Between the idiotic "Yankees suck" chants and the booing, it's pretty embarrassing to be a Met fan these days.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Centerfield wrote: Between the idiotic "Yankees suck" chants and the booing, it's pretty embarrassing to be a Met fan these days.

You get used to it.

[MFS62]

metirish wrote: WOW..I love Julio Franco....

So do I.

This can be a defining moment for the season. Julio practically threw Carlos out there to face the "love" that was being shown him. I think it will do wonders for his psyche. (and hopefully his game)

Julio said when he signed thathe would like to be a manager some day. This is an example of his leadership skills, trying to buoy the spirits of a slumping player. Good job.

Later

[Elster88]

]"Put it this way: I'm a friend not only when you're doing well, I'm a friend when you're not doing so well," Beltran said. He pointed out that he appreciated the way Mets fans supported the team even though they fell short of making the playoffs last year. But, he said, "I do believe they can be better."

The boobirds are not going to like this and are going to boo more. Beltran might be better off just accepting that he is going to be booed.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

]"I do believe they can be better."

How about YOU, fuckhead? Can you play better than you've done so far? Show me you can. Until then, STFU and learn to live with the feedback. You want to change the feedback, start by changing your performance. Take some freaking responsibility.

Jesus, do I hate cry-babies.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Jeez. He had one 0-4 opening day. He walked 3 times in Game 2, then drove in 4 runs in Game 3.

Fans are the fuckheads.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Yeah, they are. But he has to take some responsibilty. They're not booing him because they're idiots (though many may be)--they're booing him because he didn't play very well last year, and didn't hit at the very beginning of this one. If he says, "I can play better. Fans can boo if they don't like what they see. I'm sure I'll play better, and then the fans will have something to cheer me for. I know I can play much better than I have, and I intend to" yyyybbbb, taking all the responsibility, then he's not only being accurate, he's giving the fuckheads less to behave like fuckheads about.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Bret has a point. You never win by complaining about the booing.

[Frayed Knot]

Fans are def the ones being idiots here. Booing by the 3rd AB of the season because he didn't have 2 HRs already is chosen behavior. It's not like Beltran (or anyone for that matter) chooses to suck - especially briefly. One action is easy to change, the other isn't.
That said, as much as I would have liked to see him NOT do the curtain call (and as much as I'd like the see the habit of automatic curtain-calls for every HR broken anyway - but that's a different story) it's not a fight that Beltran's going to win so, in that sense, Franco was right to talk him into his brief bow.

Certainly can't blame Frank Robbie from being pissed but Guillen's a dolt.
First he goes out there with the bat, and then starts the 'Lemme at 'em' charge precisiely at the moment that he's grabbed by two sets of hands and knows there's no way he'll ever reach his target.

[Elster88]

I'll buy that. He's going to get booed in this town. He should accept it.

To cut him a little slack, he's not the first guy to let it get to him. Apparently poor Doug Sisk was turned into a wimpering little baby by the booing.

[Guest holychicken]

The fans were obviously giving him a second chance when they didn't boo him when he got out on the first AB of the season.

The reason they are retards is because that "second chance" lasted 3 ABs.

I heard so much criticize of him after yesterday's game . . .despite the fact that he got on base 3 times and scored 2 runs.

The fans are idiots for booing. He is an idiot for basically calling the fans out.

I am afraid now that it is too late and that Beltran is screwed in NY.

He may be partially responsible for his demise, but the fans perpetuated it.

All I can say is congrats to all the Mets "fans" who did their part by booing their own team.

[Centerfield]

holychicken wrote: I am afraid now that it is too late and that Beltran is screwed in NY. He may be partially responsible for his demise, but the fans perpetuated it. All I can say is congrats to all the Mets "fans" who did their part by booing their own team.

Exactly.

FK, great observation about the timing of his "lemme at 'em" charge. Fantastic.

[soupcan]

I had no intention of booing this guy on Opening Day until some Ned Flanders lookalike started screaming at everyone in my section to 'cut him some slack, give him a break, make him feel welcome!'

Then I just started spitting venom.

The guy signed a contract paying him ungodly amounts of money to play ball whether he does well or not, and so far it's 'not'.

You know what comes with that deal Carlos? The fans right to boo you if we don't think you are playing up to the contract. As Ben Parker said to young Peter 'with great power comes great responsibility'

If Senor Mole needs me to make him feel all warm and fuzzy then he can cut me a check for $5,000,000.00 and then I'll STFU.

I will boo him reagardless of whether he has 30 homeruns by the all-star break or not (and I hope to hell he does) because shit like this just pisses me the hell off.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Really?

Nobody is contesting anybody's rights here.

[Elster88]

So you get angry at Ned Flanders, and booing Beltran makes you feel better?

[Guest Edgy DC]

And it's a little self-serving to say that you'll boo him because he makes a mild statement of disappointment when you boo him.

[Elster88]

One revelation for me is that there is some truth to the idea that some people aren't well-suited to play in New York. If booing gets under your skin, you might want to play somewhere else.

I'm not saying it has the effect that some morons think: A .350 hitter isn't going to become a .200 hitter because he plays in New York (though that's not all that exaggerated from what has happened to Beltran). But a .300 hitter may become a miserable .300 hitter if he lets booing bother him.

[Gwreck]

soupcan wrote: I had no intention of booing this guy on Opening Day until some Ned Flanders lookalike started screaming at everyone in my section to 'cut him some slack, give him a break, make him feel welcome!' Then I just started spitting venom.

You may not like Ned Flandes, but his point is valid. Booing at this point in the season isn't just stupid -- it's positively moronic. Unless you expect him to bat .775 with 80 HR and 200 RBI, he gets at least 2 weeks before hearing boos. Period.

As for Beltran's culpability, he certainly bears a ton. He didn't earn his money last year. His comments post-game weren't necessarily out of line. An acknowledgement of sub-par performance from last year would've been appropriate, but I don't think he's hiding from it either. He *is* absolutely correct that the fans could be better.

What people don't seem to realize is that booing doesn't cause players to hit.

[soupcan]

Edgy DC wrote: Really? Nobody is contesting anybody's rights here.

I interpret this whole thing as Beltran saying ' Geez I'm making a bazillion dollars to play here but I need the fans to not boo me or I'll feel sad and get mad at them.'

Gimme a break. You're a professional athlete and you're being incredibly well-compensated. There really is not a hell of a whole lot you should be complaining about.

That's what irks me. I'm booing his petulence

="Elster88"]So you get angry at Ned Flanders, and booing Beltran makes you feel better?

I get angry at people who try to get me to kowtow to the whims of well-compensated athletes.

[Elster88]

soupcan wrote: ="Edgy DC"]Really? Nobody is contesting anybody's rights here. I interpret this whole thing as Beltran saying ' Geez I'm making a bazillion dollars to play here but I need the fans to not boo me or I'll feel sad and get mad at them.' Gimme a break. You're a professional athlete and you're being incredibly well-compensated. There really is not a hell of a whole lot you should be complaining about. That's what irks me. I'm booing his petulence ="Elster88"]So you get angry at Ned Flanders, and booing Beltran makes you feel better? I get angry at people who try to get me to kowtow to the whims of well-compensated athletes.

Yeah, but on Opening Day, you didn't know he was whining. If what he said in the papers today makes you want to boo him, that makes sense to me. But why did you boo him on Opening Day? At that point, you didn't know he was being petulant and you didn't know that Ned was "kotowing to his whims".

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's a bully's logic to rip into someone, draw a response from him, and use the response as an excuse that he deserves to be ripped into.

[soupcan]

Gwreck wrote: You may not like Ned Flandes, but his point is valid. Booing at this point in the season isn't just stupid -- it's positively moronic. Unless you expect him to bat .775 with 80 HR and 200 RBI, he gets at least 2 weeks before hearing boos. Period.

I don't know that that's true. If you believe the slate gets wiped clean on Opening Day that's cool. I had no intention of booing him but I wasn't going to toss my pom-poms in the air for him either. Beltran's attitude coupled with the fan suckling his teet (love that word) just riled me up.

Gwreck wrote: What people don't seem to realize is that booing doesn't cause players to hit.

...and it doesn't cause them to not hit either.

[Elster88]

soupcan wrote: ="Gwreck"]What people don't seem to realize is that booing doesn't cause players to hit. ...and it doesn't cause them to not hit either.

Maybe if the booing really gets to him?

[Centerfield]

I don't think it's in question that every fan has the right to boo anyone they want. The question is whether a fan should. I understand the urge to boo when things go badly...I boo and curse all the time when I'm watching at home. And I do this because it makes no difference what I do in my own living room. But when you're at the game, booing has an actual effect. And considering the effects, I can't understand why anyone would boo Beltran.

First of all, booing is not going to make him play any better. In fact, it can get in his head and make him play worse. I have no idea why a fan would want to make it harder for a player on his own team.

Secondly, it creates a negative atmosphere around the ballpark. Why would you want to create an environment where players think that the next mistake they make will be greeted with a chorus of boos? Let them relax...play loose.

Third, as much as a fan can argue that a player has to suck it up because of his contract, this is simply not true. A player doesn't have to suck it up. They can go play somewhere else where they don't have to deal with it. St. Louis...Anaheim...all are great places to play...and those places don't have fans ready to jump down their throats. Someday, some free agent is going to think about how Beltran was booed and have that factor into his decision.

Now, if a player is struggling because of lack of effort, I think he should be booed. Why? It sends the message that fans won't stand for that. But if a player is struggling but still playing hard...in that situation, booing accomplishes nothing.

I hope that one day, a highly sought after free agent takes less money to sign somewhere else, and when asked why, says "I don't like the way those fans treated Beltran."

[soupcan]

Edgy DC wrote: It's a bully's logic to rip into someone, draw a response from him, and use the response as an excuse that he deserves to be ripped into.

Opening Day I was booing more to irk Flander's. I don't care so much about what Beltran said last night as I do the attitude of athletes and fans that II have a responsibility to coddle them.

If you don't like the deal, don't sign the contract. If I'm an idiot and I choose to boo, too bad for you.

[Elster88]

soupcan wrote: ="Edgy DC"]It's a bully's logic to rip into someone, draw a response from him, and use the response as an excuse that he deserves to be ripped into. Opening Day I was booing more to irk Flander's. I don't care so much about what Beltran said last night as I do the attitude of athletes and fans that II have a responsibility to coddle them. If you don't like the deal, don't sign the contract. If I'm an idiot and I choose to boo, too bad for you.

Saying "Booing doesn't help" is not asking to be coddled.

[Centerfield]

Exactly. Not booing doesn't necessarily mean being "coddled". That would imply that fans of all other teams "coddle" their players. All I'm saying is I don't see why we would choose to treat our players in a worse manner than fans of other teams. And I don't buy that garbage about New York being a "tough town". Acting like a jerk is acting like a jerk no matter what your zip code is.

The booing of Beltran and Matsui and Benitez...these cases went beyond simply booing bad play. This sort of booing is mean-spirited and makes me want to disassociate myself with "fans" of this team.

[soupcan]

Centerfield wrote: I don't think it's in question that every fan has the right to boo anyone they want. The question is whether a fan should. I understand the urge to boo when things go badly...I boo and curse all the time when I'm watching at home. And I do this because it makes no difference what I do in my own living room. But when you're at the game, booing has an actual effect. And considering the effects, I can't understand why anyone would boo Beltran. First of all, booing is not going to make him play any better. In fact, it can get in his head and make him play worse. I have no idea why a fan would want to make it harder for a player on his own team. Secondly, it creates a negative atmosphere around the ballpark. Why would you want to create an environment where players think that the next mistake they make will be greeted with a chorus of boos? Let them relax...play loose. Third, as much as a fan can argue that a player has to suck it up because of his contract, this is simply not true. A player doesn't have to suck it up. They can go play somewhere else where they don't have to deal with it. St. Louis...Anaheim...all are great places to play...and those places don't have fans ready to jump down their throats. Someday, some free agent is going to think about how Beltran was booed and have that factor into his decision. Now, if a player is struggling because of lack of effort, I think he should be booed. Why? It sends the message that fans won't stand for that. But if a player is struggling but still playing hard...in that situation, booing accomplishes nothing. I hope that one day, a highly sought after free agent takes less money to sign somewhere else, and when asked why, says "I don't like the way those fans treated Beltran."

Then God Bless those players and let them play somewhere else. This smacks of idol worship and I'm just not about that..

That's probably why I get pissed off about this issue.

'I don't want to play there because they booed Beltran' meanwhile Beltran is retired at age 40 living on the beach in Fiji and sipping Mango-tinis while the Ned Flanders' of the world are walking around still looking for their team's World Series trophy that never came because Beltran never became the player they were counting on.

At this point none of you have to worry because sportsradio and the Mets themselves have successfully forced the boobirds into acquiescing to the 27 year-old multi-millionaires sensitive personality. I'm certain that he's gonna get his monthlong grace period now.

When you see the one guy at Shea booing him and getting plunked with popcorn and hotdogs call your friends to the TV and say 'Hey, I knoew that guy, its soupcan!"

[Guest Edgy DC]

]If I'm an idiot and I choose to boo, too bad for you.

Well, if you're truly an idiot, too bad (worse bad) for you too, and too bad for the team you ostensibly support.

I don't think you are.

[Theoldmole]

I grew up in the "Let us pray for Gil Hodges" days. I don't boo a guy in a slump.