Derek Jeter.

[metirish]

Yeah but Trammell never dived into the stands for no reason and he was never called ' Mr November'......

[Guest Rotblatt]

Alan Trammell: 117.6 WARP3 / 4 times with double-digit WARP3

20 seasons, 6-time All-Star, 3-time Silver Slugger, once in the top 3 MVP, 3 times in the top 10. 4-time Gold Glove winner. Led the league in sac hits two times.

2,365 H, 185 HR, 236 SB, lifetime .285 hitter.

Trammell certainly had a better peak than Jeter did, and, IMO has a stronger case than any of the current SS with the exception (of course) of A-Rod.

[Zvon]

Im not saying this is right or wrong, but Jeter will make it.

He'll always be associated with the Yankees most recent run more than any other player.
A talented player on the biggest stage in the game.
He has produced enough individually at the plate while stressing the virtues of team play.
The image of him diving into the stands without regard for personal injury and coming out bloodied with the ball will forever be etched in everyones memory and serves as his best commercial ad.("now thats how you play the game")

If they went with just his numbers alone, as maybe they should, he would be a borderline case who would still have to work to make it.
But they will go by his impact and by that alone, he's already a shoe-in.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Zvon wrote: The image of him diving into the stands without regard for personal injury and coming out bloodied with the ball will forever be etched in everyones memory and serves as his best commercial ad.("now thats how you play the game")

You're right, Zvon, but MAN is that play overrated.

Any competent shortstop who caught a ball IN FAIR TERRITORY should be able to stop themselves before hitting the stands.

I daresay Reyes makes that same catch, but makes it look so easy, it doesn't even make web gems.

[Elster88]

I disagree.

[Guest SwitchHitter]

Okay, I'm coming late to this.

What's a WARP3 Mr. Sulu?

[Guest Rotblatt]

SwitchHitter wrote: Okay, I'm coming late to this. What's a WARP3 Mr. Sulu?

It's Wins Against Replacement Player, Captain. So basically, they look at how many runs over a replacement player Jeter's worth--both offense & defense--then determine how many wins those runs are worth.

Defition:

]Statistics that have been adjusted for all-time have all of the adjustments for a single season, plus two more. One adjustment normalizes the average fielding numbers over time. Historically, the fielding share of total defense has been diminishing with time - more walks, more strikeouts, and more home runs means less work for fielders. In the single-season adjustments, fielders from before WWII have a lot more value than fielders today; the all-time adjustments have attempted to remove that temporal trend. The second adjustment is for league difficulty. League quality has generally increased with time. Each league has been rated for difficulty and compared to a trend line defined by the post-integration National League. In addition to the adjustments for season, an adjustment is made for league difficulty.

[Zvon]

Rotblatt wrote: You're right, Zvon, but MAN is that play overrated.

It is.
We all have seen better catches.
But its the stage on which he made that catch that magnified it to giant sized proportions.
No one catch should have such impact,.......but Jeters does.

And thats the way the ball bounces.
Or pops up......

[Gwreck]

Nobody's mentioned the postseason yet. There's a WS MVP (groan) along with some pretty good numbers. I think that would tip the scale to "in" if it had to be decided today.

"Lock" might be exaggerating, but there hasn't been a lot of evidence to suggest he's not going to continue to perform at a high level for a while to come. A few more typical seasons and it won't be debatable.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]If Jeter gets in the Hall and Trammell doesn't, I will officially be done with the Hall of Fame.

I'd say maybe you should prepare for this possibility.

Maybe the success of borderline cases like Sutter and Sandberg betrays a Chicago media bias.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Jeter just needs to show up for a couple more years and he'll skate on in.

As Clint Eastwood says, "It ain't about deservin'"

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

MFS62 wrote: Everything you said was true. I was just commenting on that comment about "bullshit categories". Jeter has the rings, and has been highup in MVP voting, too. But that was outside the scope of my comment. Later

Also you can make the same argument "anti-Berra" about Piazza.

Then again, I think just Campy, Bench, Pudge Rodriguez and Hundley have been the only primary catchers to lead the league in any major offensive category

[MFS62]

Didn't Ernie Lombardi lead the league in batting one year?

LAter

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

MFS62 wrote: Didn't Ernie Lombardi lead the league in batting one year? LAter

Probably, I was just rattling off the Post-Berra "offensive minded" backstops