World Baseball Classic Thread

[metirish]

That would probably make A-Rod very upset, keep this info from him, David will be busy working on his woman skills anyway...

[metirish]

Pedro speaks

] Pedro: A-Rod made an error Mets' ace thinks the Yankees' star should play for 'us,' not U.S. BY KEN DAVIDOFF STAFF WRITER January 27, 2006, 10:08 PM EST Pedro Martinez and Alex Rodriguez are longtime friends, so much so that last winter, during Martinez's free agency, the right-hander met with and confided in the Yankees' third baseman. Yet Martinez, who wound up signing with the Mets, is disappointed that A-Rod has chosen to play for the United States -- instead of the Dominican Republic -- in the upcoming World Baseball Classic. Martinez chose to share this sentiment publicly. "Alex is American because he was born in the United States, but after what Mike Piazza -- a future Hall of Famer -- did, who will be playing for Italy, and Nomar Garciaparra, who will be playing for Mexico, he had an excuse to do the same with the Dominican Republic," said Martinez, who intends to pitch for his native Dominican Republic. Martinez's statements were spoken to the Dominican-based television network Color Vision. ESPN.com first reported of the interview here. "Now Alex must prepare for the nasty comments that will arise in the Bronx, where almost half of the citizens are Latino and purely Dominican," Martinez said. "In fact, when Alex gets [to the Dominican Republic] it's possible that not even the reporters will be here to welcome him." Rodriguez, who couldn't be reached for comment Friday, agonized over his WBC decision, initially hinting he would play for the Dominican, then declining to select a team, then dropping out, then ultimately signing on for the U.S. team. In announcing his (seemingly) final decision, Rodriguez credited a telephone conversation he had with Manny Ramirez, the Dominican native, who told A-Rod he could play for the U.S. club. Ramirez and Martinez are good friends, having played together for the Boston Red Sox. On other topics, Martinez, who didn't attend the Mets' caravan this past week, confirmed that he recently married Carolina Cruz, a Dominican reporter for ESPN. He also spoke extensively about his notoriously ailing right big toe, saying that he is still waiting for the specially designed shoe from Nike that, he hopes, will provide the necessary cushion. "I have faith in God, and I know I'll be ready," Martinez said. "I'm being optimistic that I'll be able to play the World Baseball Classic and the 2006 season." The injury, Martinez said, resulted from "irregular movement" from his pitching delivery, damaging the cartilage of the toe. "The pain became insufferable during the 2004 season, and I had to take a cortisone shot in order to tolerate the pain and be able to help Boston win the World Series," he said. "Last year, the pain returned in June, but the doctors recommended that, rather than ignoring the wound by applying cortisone, I rehabilitate the foot instead, which is what we're doing right now." His friendship with A-Rod might need some rehabilitation, as well, following Martinez's television appearance in the Dominican.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I like how it's not the Dominicans in Santo Domingo that should be upset, but the ones in the Bronx.

Huh?

[nymr83]

Pedro isn't the brightest of ballplayers (as evidenced by his pitching exhibition games in the WBC when he is still hurting)

[metirish]

Pedro strikes me as a very smart person, representing his country obviously means a lot to him.

[Frayed Knot]

="Nymr83"]Pedro isn't the brightest of ballplayers (as evidenced by his pitching exhibition games in the WBC when he is still hurting)

This attitude is silly.
If there were no such thing as the WBC Pedro would be throwing (more or less) the same amount of pitches at roughly the same time of year ... just in Florida against ST Braves & Nationals et al instead of wherever against Venz & maybe the U.S. With pitch limits, 30-man rosters, and a max total of 8 games (and even that's only for the teams that get to the finals) a starter like Pedro will likely pitch (at most) parts of 3 games spread out over 3 weeks. And with Manny Acta as his manager it's not like there's any danger of someone gonna go to the whip over him anyway.
The nay-sayers for this tourney are acting as if the players ** Oh God, they might get hurt!!!!" ** would be sunning themselves on the beach otherwise and have already set-up the scenario to blame the WBC for every injury that occurs. Trachsel & Benson, you may recall, each got hurt last Spring w/o ever leaving the Sunshine State.

If Pedro's toe isn't ready he won't play - but if that occurs I'd treat it as a bad thing not a good. It means that he'd also likely be behind for ST (and maybe the reg season) if that's the case.
As of a day or two ago, Omar was quoted as saying that Pedro in the tourney is still about 50/50 at this point.

[Elster88]

]The nay-sayers for this tourney are acting as if the players ** Oh God, they might get hurt!!!!" ** would be sunning themselves on the beach otherwise and have already set-up the scenario to blame the WBC for every injury that occurs. Trachsel & Benson, you may recall, each got hurt last Spring w/o ever leaving the Sunshine State.

There's a huge difference between pitching to Albert Pujols in a WBC game and the Norfolk Tides in a normal spring training game.

The yay-sayers for this tourney act like the players would put the same effort into a WBC game when they are representing their country as they would if they were just playing against Cleveland's split squad team in a regular spring training game.

[Frayed Knot]

But you'd be pitching to the likes of Albert Pujols in reg ST also.

The only real argument for increased injuries due to the WBC is the notion that these players are going to "try too hard" in March above and beyond what they normally would, a speculative point IMO and something that can be "solved" simply by everyone keeping their collective heads about them.
Again, this is a handful of games (3-8 per team) involving a small pct of the MLers (15%?) that are being played once every couple of years at a time when the players would pretty much be doing the same thing anyway - just in a different format.

And it's not like I'm getting all gung-ho over this, it just seems as if the case is being made in advance from many quarters to blame all potential injuries on the WBC as if they'd be non-existant otherwise because reg ST is nothing but a leisurely day at the park.
Except that there was Mookie's eye injury
- and at least one of Payton's elbow blowouts
- and Trax & Benson last year
- and Ventura's devastating ankle w/the ChiSox
- and when Chipper's ML career was delayed an entire year when he blew out his knee sliding
- or hell, let's throw in Ray Fosse's, Ted Williams' and Harmon Killebrew's AS Game injuries and ban that.

[Elster88]

I think what we Americans don't realize is how much this tournament means to other countries. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that someone like Pedro is going to be pushing himself a lot harder in the WBC then in a split squad game.

Yes, obviously Pujols plays in spring training. But I don't get why people don't believe that competing in the WBC is much different than in ST. Players only play half games, or even a couple of innings in some ST games. Players will take games off all the time. Pujols or another nasty hitter is getting more at-bats in the WBC, and is going to be playing more games. You're going to see him more often, and thus be trying to get him out in tight spots more often.


Everyone is going to be playing harder. I repeat:

Do you really not think that a player, playing for his country, is going to get more revved up then he will for a split squad game in Port St. Lucie? You don't think they're going to care more when it's 2-2 in the ninth? You really think they give a crap if they win or lose ST games? If you don't think there is a difference between WBC and ST and the effort put forth in those two types of games (and thus the increased chance for injury), then I don't know how to argue my point.

But I think the difference between ST and WBC is huge, and obvious. Just one man's opinion.

[nymr83]

not only that, but players who are INJURED (read: pedro) might take the mount when in ST they'd just throw on the side and call it a day.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I do agree with Elster's point that the intensity level of WBC games will be greater than that generally displayed (particularly by veterans) in spring training games. For other countries, the WBC is analogous to the Olympics as far as baseball is concerned. Only now, they truly have their best players representing their country.

Luckily the number of games to be played by each team will be rather minimal as Frayed Knot pointed out previously. I'm glad to see that pitch limits and appearance limits have been installed to protect pitcher's arms.

[Frayed Knot]

I do realize that this tourney means more to the smaller countries than it does here. Essentially, this tourney exists for the benefit of the smaller countries.
I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries. The main chance of that happening is if pitchers were over-extended too early but they've put the rules in to prevent that. Pedro's not going to be pitching to ARod in the late innings because he'll either be long out of the game by then or it will be in the finals in late March when he'll have built up to near full-game strength anyway. These will be squads carrying 4-5 closers on their rosters and I suspect the usage will be closer to that of AS games then it will to late-Sept pennant drive contests. Even a star pitcher will be used in this tourney for at most portions of 3 games. It's not like they're going to undergo a month-long diet of high-tension games.

Again, it's not that I'm all jazzed up over this, I just think that much of the worry about it is overblown.

[nymr83]

]I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries.

my concern is that the "importance" of the games will cause guys to play when they should be taking it easy to rehab an existing injury

[Frayed Knot]

Which is pretty much what started this part of the discussion ... but if Pedro (or anyone for that matter) decides to play through an existing injury then shame on them and let's then blame stupidity for their loss rather than the existance of the WBC.
Besides, his toe is being monitored and Omar has already said he's no better than 50/50 to play at this point. But y'know what, if Pedro's toe is going to be a problem after 5 months off then it's going to be a problem all year long. So rather than feeling grateful that he'll be taking the WBC off I'd be worried that he felt he had to and that he's not going to be ready for the season.

I'm going to trust Petey and the powers at be to make the right call on this one.

[nymr83]

i'm pretty pissed that its an issue at all after he was allowed to pitch winterball, he shouldn't have done that if he wasnt 110%. the Mets (quite properly in my opinion) shut him down in september for his health, he shouldnt have pitched again until spring training.

[Elster88]

Frayed Knot wrote: I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries. The main chance of that happening is if pitchers were over-extended too early but they've put the rules in to prevent that.

Yeah, I'm really only speculating that getting worked up makes it more likely for someone to get hurt. I was just making the conclusion that "playing harder --> increased injury change", which is admittedly somewhat shaky. I get very nervous when it comes to Pedro. I want him to play the whole of the 2006 season.

Frayed Knot wrote: Pedro's not going to be pitching to ARod in the late innings because he'll either be long out of the game by then or it will be in the finals in late March when he'll have built up to near full-game strength anyway.

Your main point is a good one. I hope the managers are careful not to overextend or even just regular-extend these guys. Like I said, I'm just extra nervous about Pedro. And Delgado. And anyone else that is a key to 2006.

Young David isn't going to enter this silly tournament, right?

[A Boy Named Seo]

I'm kinda psyched about this silly tournament and wanna check out an Anaheim game or two.

[Elster88]

="Frayed Knot"]Which is pretty much what started this part of the discussion ... but if Pedro (or anyone for that matter) decides to play through an existing injury then shame on them and let's then blame stupidity for their loss rather than the existance of the WBC. Besides, his toe is being monitored and Omar has already said he's no better than 50/50 to play at this point. But y'know what, if Pedro's toe is going to be a problem after 5 months off then it's going to be a problem all year long. So rather than feeling grateful that he'll be taking the WBC off I'd be worried that he felt he had to and that he's not going to be ready for the season. I'm going to trust Petey and the powers at be to make the right call on this one.

You're probably right. I heard on the FAN today that even though Pedro is so huge in the DR and even though he really wants to play he might call it off because of his Shaqtoe.

I should stop acting like Little Petey is a porcelain doll too. He's a grown man. He just acts like a silly kid.

[nymr83]

see, Delgado i don't care about...there is no pre-existing injury that shut him down at the end of last year and which still lingers, he can participate if he wants, its an injured pitcher that i want to keep out of it

[Elster88]

Pedro is my main concern too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Manny Acta looking to take Reyes.

[Frayed Knot]

]Young David isn't going to enter this silly tournament, right?

He's on the current (50 man?) roster which will eventually be cut down to 30 and DW himself has speculated that the late addition of Sir Alex of Arodia might spell his exit from the final squad.

[metirish]

Decent article on the cup ....

] World Baseball Classic quietly causing concern By Barry Rozner Daily Herald Sports Columnist Posted Monday, January 30, 2006 It wasn’t just that people didn’t want to talk about the World Baseball Classic at SoxFest over the weekend. It was the way they didn’t want to talk about it. “Uh, uh. Don’t ask me,’’ White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said with a smirk. “I’ve already gotten in trouble for it.’’ If Williams and every other GM in baseball could say what they think, it might be that the WBC was a bad idea from the start. It got worse as the tourney was slated for March, when pitchers are easing their arms back into shape, ripping up scar tissue and remembering what it’s like to be in pain every minute of every day from February to October. Now, instead of coasting, Sox pitchers such as Javy Vazquez (Puerto Rico) and Freddy Garcia (Venezuela) have to pitch for their home countries or face harsh words — or worse — at home. Asked whom he would root for, the United States or Venezuela, Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said, “Venezuela. I have to. They might shoot me if I don’t.’’ Who’s to say he wasn’t at least half-serious? While many of the best American players blow it off, Latin players pretty much have to represent their countries if they are extended an invitation. So let’s talk about what no one was talking about this weekend: Someone’s probably going to get hurt in the WBC and cost his team a chance at the postseason in 2006. There will be injured pitchers who don’t even reveal their injuries until June or July. There will be pitchers who suffer wear and tear and stressful innings long before their shoulders are ready for such a burden. And there will be pitchers, perhaps Garcia and Vazquez among them, who haven’t even recovered from last fall yet and will struggle during the season because of the early stress of the WBC. Players and execs alike are rolling their eyes but keeping their mouths shut on orders from above as the tournament approaches. MLB might be able to silence the GMs today, but come the end of the tourney, some are going to be screaming at baseball boss Bud Selig to give them back the 200 innings, Gold Glove or 100 runs scored they just lost to an exhibition game that few in the States seem to have any interest in right now. There’s nothing wrong with the idea of a world tournament. We’re all for it, but baseball hasn’t figured out yet when or how to do it. If it’s that important to Selig, do it in-season and take a couple of weeks out of the schedule when pitchers are ready … and less likely to get hurt. Of course, MLB isn’t going to forfeit tens of millions. Fine, start the season a few days early, go a few days late and shut it down for two weeks in the middle and dump the All-Star Game. You can’t compare this world tourney to the Olympics or any other cup because in no other sport does a player — in this case a pitcher — rely solely on a few strands of tissue for his living. If damaged, a bad shoulder can ruin a season or a career. It’s a terrible risk to take, and there are going to be baseball execs in Florida and Arizona holding their breath until the WBC is over. After that, don’t expect them all to hold their tongues.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=148597

[Frayed Knot]

I hate sounding like I'm beating the same drum over and over here while coming off like some Selig marketing toady -- and I wouldn't if I didn't think some of the arguments against this thing are just so over the top:

From the above piece:

"It got worse as the tourney was slated for March, when pitchers are easing their arms back into shape, ripping up scar tissue and remembering what it’s like to be in pain every minute of every day from February to October."

Hold all new entries! It's only January but the "overstatement of the year award" has already found it's winner.


"There will be injured pitchers who don’t even reveal their injuries until June or July"

As expected, all injuries are to be blamed on this no matter when they show up and regardless of whether cause can be determined. Nothing like starting with the conclusion and then retro-fitting the evidence to support it.



"There will be pitchers who suffer wear and tear and stressful innings long before their shoulders are ready for such a burden."

"All those innings" are going to number less than 10 for almost everyone and are going to occur in place of innings they'd be pitching anyway, not in addition to.


"Players and execs alike are rolling their eyes but keeping their mouths shut on orders from above as the tournament approaches."

The players and execs also signed off on this or it wouldn't be happening.

[Frayed Knot]

Team USA announced their final 30-man roster yesterday.
Only Wagner is on it from our squad. Wright & LoDuca got the boot as they cut down from the initial 50-some roster.


[u:7ed22b1613]Pitchers[/u:7ed22b1613]
Rogers Clemens
Jake Peavy
C.C. Sabathia
Dontrelle Willis
Chad Cordero
Brian Fuentes
Todd Jones
Brad Lidge
Joe Nathan
Scot Shields
Huston Street
Mike Timlin
Billy Wagner
Dan Wheeler

[u:7ed22b1613]Catchers[/u:7ed22b1613]
Michael Barrett
Brian Schneider
Jason Varitek

[u:7ed22b1613]Infielders[/u:7ed22b1613]
Derrek Lee
Mark Teixeira
Chase Utley
Michael Young
Derek Jeter
Chipper Jones
Alex Rodriguez

[u:7ed22b1613]Outfielders[/u:7ed22b1613]
Johnny Damon
Jeff Francoeur
Ken Griffey
Matt Holliday
Vernon Wells
Randy Winn, of Giants


Decent starters, good bullpen, great IF, so-so outfield

[Guest Edgy DC]

Dan Wheeler?

[nymr83]

The Post had Randy Winn mistakenly listed at Catcher.

[Willets Point]

Dominican Republic is so going to school the USA.

When the WBC starts we should have IGT's to get us warmed up for the regular season (and keep this thread from growing into a monster).

[metirish]

Chipper Jones might opt out of the WBC, would that open the door for David Wright?.

Chipper may opt out of World Classic

Get well soon Shea.

sorry, registration required...here it is

] Lake Buena Vista, Fla. --- Chipper Jones was the strongest and fittest that he'd been in years. Then he got sick. The Braves third baseman said he lost eight pounds in eight days during a recent bout with the flu, but that's not the reason Jones might withdraw from the upcoming World Baseball Classic. His 18-month-old son, Shea, had a serious intestinal virus and was in and out of an Atlanta hospital for a month. The toddler's condition has improved and stabilized, but Jones wants to make sure Shea is OK before deciding whether to go to Phoenix March 2 for the start of the United States' team training camp. "I would love to play [in the Classic], but my family's most important," said Jones, who reported to spring training along with Braves pitchers and catchers on Thursday, five days before position players were due. If his son remains stable, Jones still plans to play in the WBC. But if Shea has any more problems, Dad doesn't want to be any further away from home than is absolutely necessary for his job. If he had to get back to Atlanta in a hurry, Jones could do it easier from training camp than Arizona. "If everything stays the way it is now with Shea, I'll play [in the WBC]," Jones said. Outfielder Jeff Francoeur is also on the U.S. team for the inaugural Classic. Braves players set to play for other countries include center fielder Andruw Jones (Netherlands); pitcher Jorge Sosa (Dominican Republic); reliever Chris Reitsma and infielders Pete Orr and Scott Thorman (all Canada), and pitcher Oscar Villarreal (Mexico). Jones said before he got sick a few weeks ago, he was "jacked up" with excitement about the WBC and the Braves' season. After injury-plagued seasons in 2004-05, he decided to hire a personal trainer this winter. Jones followed a schedule of rigorous, supervised workouts in Atlanta and at his Texas ranch (yes, the trainer went with him out west). Teammates who saw him said he was noticeably more muscular. Jones said he was up to 228 pounds last month and in outstanding shape --- similar, he said, to the condition he was in during his 1999 National League MVP season when he hit .319 with 45 homers. Thursday, he was so weak after one round of batting practice, he went back to his rental house to sleep. "It feels like a lot of what I worked for this offseason, I lost," he said. "When you take 10 days off, it's easy to lose it, when a bowl of chicken soup is all you can eat. I had a legitimate 100-plus fever for eight days. "I felt like I had to get down here [to spring training] as soon as I could and get started again." In the next two weeks of Braves camp, he hopes to regain his strength and conditioning. He's worked hard and made sacrifices for the upcoming season, and Jones doesn't want to see the efforts wasted. He agreed in November to restructure his contract, taking a pay cut for this season --- from $17 million to $11 million --- and getting two option years (2007-08) converted to guaranteed years. The restructuring, which was Jones' idea, was done to help the Braves free up some salary to fill other needs, including their attempt to re-sign shortstop Rafael Furcal and get a closer. They failed in both pursuits, though the Braves were able to replace Furcal with a quality shortstop, Edgar Renteria. "I've liked Edgar a long time," Jones said of the former Florida and St. Louis All-Star. "I thought we should have been in the running for him a long time ago. Clutch hitter, situational hitter, Gold Glove-caliber shortstop. You can't ask for anything more." But Jones acknowledged the Braves enter spring training with some questions, notably at closer and the top of the batting order. Second baseman Marcus Giles will probably replace leadoff man Furcal, who served as the spark plug of Atlanta's offense with his combination of switch-hitting power and speed. "I'm sure Gilly will be the first option," Jones said. "He's certainly not the prototypical leadoff hitter. I'm not saying he can't adjust. But it's going to be different than it has been around here."

[Guest abogdan]

Looks like the US's strategy will be 4 innings from their 4 starters and then a steady stream of relievers to finish it out.