Catcher - 2006

[Frayed Knot]

A couple of thoughts on one of the potential FA catchers currently filling the thoughts of some Met fans' - and possibly front office - heads.


From an article on Hardball Times entitled;
'Five Untrue Things You'll Learn About the Angels This Week'

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/five-untrue-things-youll-learn-about-the-angels-this-week/

Bengie Molina is a great defensive catcher
I'm not sure Bengie's even a good defensive catcher at this point. His throwing has deteriorated -- from 36 of 81 base-stealers (44%) in 2003, to 18/69 (26%) in 2004, to 20/64 (31%) this year; even while his barely younger brother has been improving from 28% to 49% to 53%. And more noticeable on a day-to-day basis is Bengie's increasingly desperate habit of jabbing with his glove at pitches in the dirt, instead of trying to move his fat body in the way.

He led MLB with 10 passed balls this year to Jose Molina's three, but that doesn't begin to tell the story, since official scorers rarely even call passed balls anymore. The real action is in wild pitches: John Lackey -- he of just 71 BB in 209 innings pitched -- ranked third in all of baseball with 18 wild pitches this year; reliever Scot Shields came in seventh with 12 (and K-Rod had eight, and Esteban "I'm Not Even on the Playoff Roster" Yan uncorked five, etc.).


This actually ran last week prior to the Yanqui series and it was an attempt to educate those who rarely see the west coast teams about how certain pearls of "conventional wisdom" might not be too wise after all.

Having said all that, he's looked OK defensively to me - in a small sample size anyway. But he'll also turn 32 next June with one of those bodies that doesn't strike me as the type that'll "age" particularly well and, as a FA, will likely command a deal for at least 3 years.
He also seems to me to be, oh I dunno ... too similar? to Ramon Castro. Same type of hitter (he's a better hitter than Castro but still sort of the same), same body (maybe even the same helmet size) plus, in a foot race with a pregnant woman, the two would stage a death battle for 3rd and 4th place.
Castro is 2 years younger.


Just thinkin out loud here.

[metirish]

]He also seems to me to be, oh I dunno ... too similar? to Ramon Castro

That's a fair point, in a small sampling this past week Molina has looked great, certainly he carried a big bat against the yankees, but at 32 and no doubt looking for 3 years I don't think he'd be worth it, .

[MFS62]

That may be because Castro was coached by Molina's father in Little League. I heard that tidbit about a week ago, but don't remember which announcer said it.

Later

[smg58]

I don't like the free agent catching options out there. Hernandez is too much of an injury risk for the price he'll command.

Ideally a Jacobs/Castro platoon would be more than adequate offensively, provided Jake can field the position at least passably, while enabling us to spend our money and bargaining chips elsewhere. Otherwise, young guys like Shoppach, Ryan Garko, and Dioner Navarro should be available. I'd rather serve youth at catcher and spend the money for a bat or two and possibly a closer.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You will receive raves for your defense long after it has shrunk as an asset. Catchers are a particular beneficiary of the truism.

You will also be paid for your defense long after it has shrunk as an asset. But I think that is less true than it used to be.

[Guest sharpie]

Not that I'm jonesing for Ramon Hernandez, but up til this year he was pretty healthy. Meanwhile, Jacobs has also had injury issues.

[Valadius]

Watch us trade for a catcher instead.

[Guest rpackrat]

I hear there's this guy named Piazza out there. Not the hitter he once was , but still a pretty good one. Below average, but not horrible, defense. Might be willing to sign a one year incentive-laden deal.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

The Braves have an overstock of catchers. An injury appears to have led to Johnny Estrada losing his starting catching spot to young Brian McCann. Estrada is 29 years old, but if he is recovered from his recent injuries he could be a pretty decent addition. The Braves need pitching, particularly in the bullpen. It might be worth pursuing, though interdivisional trades are often very tricky.

[smg58]

I forgot about Estrada. Watch Schuerholz get more than he's worth for him.

Yes Jacobs is an injury risk too, but he's an in-house option and would cost nothing. I'm guessing that Ramon Hernandez could still command 7 or 8 million a year, and I'm not sure he's worth that cost.

Piazza... he may yet turn out to be the best option, but I would examine several other alternatives before him.

[Frayed Knot]

I doubt the Braves are ready to turn over catching to McCann full time (he isn't even their best minor league catching prospect - they like the guy a year or so behind him even better).
So I suspect they'll go with a combo of McCann and Estrada next year (Eddie Perez is getting a bit old). As far as I know they expect Estrada to fully recover from his injuries by spring - he was never really right after Darrin Erstad steamrolled him at the plate around mid-season.

[nymr83]

remember Estrada for Millwood? god i thought the braves were getting ripped off. whoops.

[Valadius]

There's a scout.com free preview of premium content that just came out that grades the Mets and MFYs catching prospects.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AocLUzlI_ZhafhSLM5s8CJwRvLYF?slug=citadel-2_453590_228&prov=citadel&type=story

Basically what it says is that the Mets are dominating the MFYs in catching prospects. Here's the full text:


The Two Farm Systems : Perhaps the largest disparity position-wise between the Yankees and the Mets is at catcher, where the Yankees are devoid of any legitimate impact players at the catcher's position after Dioner Navarro was traded this past season. The Mets have quite a few catching prospects that not only could, but should, reach the Major Leagues as quality back-ups at minimum.

Two-time Mets' Minor League Hitter of the Year Mike Jacobs made a splash in New York towards the tail end of the season by hitting 11 home runs while adjusting to playing first base. Jacobs came through the Mets' farm system as a quality backstop, with a few questions marks about his ability to throw out runners. Like Mike Piazza , Jacobs is a solid all-around catcher with his arm being the lone drawback defensively.

Hagerstown catcher Jesus Flores is arguably the best all-around catcher, both offensively and defensively, between the two farm systems. He broke his hand in the final exhibition game in Spring Training and after missing the first six weeks of the season, took a bit longer to shake off the rust upon his return to action. Flores, still just 20 years old, has a lot of potential despite the pedestrian offensive numbers he posted in 2005.

Aside from Jacobs and Flores, neither the Yankees nor the Mets have any other catching prospects that project to become starting catchers at the Major League level. However, between the likes of Omir Santos , Jose Gil , and Irwil Rojas of the Yankees, and Joe Hietpas , Aaron Hathaway , and Drew Butera of the Mets, there are some quality catchers that could eventually make their way into the Major Leagues as excellent second catchers.

How Do They Compare In...

Power : With sluggers like Mike Jacobs and Jesus Flores already behind the dish, and with Andrew Wilson making the transition to the catcher's position this past year and in the Arizona Fall League, the Mets clearly have an edge over the Yankees in the power department among the catcher prospects. The Yankees don't really have one catching prospect that projects to hit 20+ home runs at the Major League level. Advantage: Mets

Hitting For Average : Again, the depth of catching prospects for the Mets gives them another edge over their cross-town rivals at the catcher's spot. Mike Jacobs has proven, albeit in a small number of at-bats, that he can hit Major League pitching with regularity. Flores is a much better hitter than his .216 average this past season and Andrew Wilson is a very good hitter as well. The Yankees have underrated Wil Nieves , a very good hitter in his own right, and Irwil Rojas , one of the better contact hitters around , keeps this race a little closer. Advantage: Mets

Defense : You'd be hard-pressed to find four better defensive catching prospects in one farm system than the New York Mets . Joe Hietpas is widely regarded as one of the elite signal callers at the minor league level. While Hietpas has a plus arm, catchers Aaron Hathaway and Drew Butera may have better arms. Throw in the all-around defensive ability of Jesus Flores, the defensive competition at catcher between the two farm systems is not even close.

Omir Santos of the Yankees is also a very good defensive catcher, but the rest of the Yankees' catching prospects are nowhere near as good as the Mets' quartet of catching prospects. Advantage: Mets

Speed : Does it really matter? The catcher's spot is traditionally known to house some of the slowest players on the baseball field and that is certainly the case with the combined catching field from the Mets and Yankees. Athletic players like Andrew Wilson, Aaron Hathaway, and Drew Butera give the Mets a slight edge in the speed department, but it is negligible overall because none project to be a difference maker on the base paths. Advantage: Mets .

Overall Potential : What the Mets decide to do with Mike Jacobs slightly effects the overall landscape of the overall potential between the two sets of catching prospects. Even if Jacobs remains at first base, the depth of quality defensive catching prospects in the Mets' farm system is too good to ignore.

If Jacobs is left behind the plate as Mike Piazza appears done in a Mets' uniform, and if Andrew Wilson can make a smooth transition to catching defensively, the Mets would have the top three catching prospects with the highest ceilings because of their offensive potential.

But the two systems combined do have a few quality catching prospects that could become excellent second catchers for their respective teams.

Highest Ceilings : Mike Jacobs (Mets) , Jesus Flores (Mets) , Andrew Wilson (Mets) , Jose Gil (Yankees) , Irwil Rojas (Yankees)

Best Power : Mike Jacobs (Mets) , Andrew Wilson (Mets) , Jesus Flores (Mets) , Omir Santos (Yankees) , Joan Martinez (Mets)

Best Average : Mike Jacobs (Mets) , Irwil Rojas (Yankees) , Andrew Wilson (Mets) , Jesus Flores (Mets) , Wil Nieves (Yankees)

Best Defense : Joe Hietpas (Mets) , Aaron Hathaway (Mets) , Andrew Butera (Mets) , Jesus Flores (Mets) , Omir Santos (Yankees)

Best Speed : Aaron Hathaway (Mets) , Jose Gil (Yankees) , Andrew Wilson (Mets) , Joan Martinez (Mets) , Andrew Butera (Mets) .


So... Jacobs isn't as bad behind the plate as some people have speculated. He'd essentially be the second coming of Mike Piazza. This Jesus Flores, though, looks like he deserves watching.

[Elster88]

This article essentially says that Jacobs is the best catching prospect in two farm systems. It does not say he is

] essentially be the second coming of Mike Piazza.

A little early for that.

[Valadius]

The article doesn't say it. I'm saying it. What do I mean? He'd be a power-hitting catcher with a below-average arm. Our tools at the position would remain the same.

[metirish]

I thought Jacobs was done as a catcher, I'm not hot for Bengie Molina anymore,not for the money expected and the years.....Castro is the man.

[Elster88]

Valadius wrote: The article doesn't say it. I'm saying it. What do I mean? He'd be a power-hitting catcher with a below-average arm. Our tools at the position would remain the same.

Oh. The way you wrote it, it seemed like you were drawing that conclusion from the article.

I still say it's waaaaay too early to say he's the next Piazza.

[Guest sharpie]

The idea of Jacobs as a catcher is just so intriguing. If we've gotta have Castro come in for late inning defense and the occasional start, I'm down with that. Much easier to fill a hole at first than catcher.

[Guest Edgy DC]

There has been one player like Mike Piazza in history. And that was Mike.

Maybe Josh Gibson. Who knows? But I'd be slow to forecast when the second coming is coming.

[Vic Sage]

WE WANT JAKE!
WE WANT JAKE!

A non-throwing catcher who can play decent defense otherwise and hits .280-.300/20+hrs LHed can start for my team any day.

[Guest sharpie]

He could be the fourth of the Mets' slugging catchers. Zero slugging shortstops, not a whole lot in the way of slugging first basemen, but three and now maybe four slugging catchers.

[Guest Rotblatt]

What Vic said. And if he hits a wall, there's always Castro.

Now that I think about it, it's kind of ideal. Late in close games or against a speedy team, we move Jake to 1B and put Castro in there.

Unless, of course, we get a Konerko or trade for a Delgado.

Speaking of Delgado, he was only paid $4M last year, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Fish try and move him. Otherwise they're on the hook for like an extra $8M, and they're cheap bastards.

[MFS62]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=An50J8LmYHeEqvHHTKuVqqARvLYF?slug=citadel-2_453504_303&prov=citadel&type=story

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

62 - what is the article about?

There are two reasons why it's good to say so, instead of just posting a link without explanation -

1) Sometimes we're in a rush, or our connections are bad, and it's not worth it to open every link; and

2) When this is an archived thread and the link no longer works, people will understand why you provided the link.

Thanks

[MFS62]

Its a comparison of the current catching prospects in the Yankee and Met organizations.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Same piece linked and printed on the previous page.

Not that it says anything useful in the first place.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

OK - thanks.

[MFS62]

Anyone think Benjie Molina has reduced the amount of his FA payday with his performance in the playoffs?

Later

[Elster88]

No

[seawolf17]

Part of me says yes; he's looked a little older, a little slower, and hasn't been so lights-out defensively.

That said, though, there aren't really too many other catchers out there who can do what he can do; so I wouldn't think his price dropped that dramatically.