IGT, 09/06 Mets @ Braves

[Guest Rotblatt]

Elster88 wrote: Pedro will be 13-7 if the Mets don't come back. He looks discomfited to be coming out of the game. I'm shocked that he could get that many losses, the way he has pitched, on a team that is fifth in the league in RS. Grr, gumble, grouch. Wow I was off on his record _____________________________ This post had the designation 162) Mike Phillips

Ah, but a pitcher's wins and losses are meaningless, grasshopper--merely a product of circumstance.

Pedro hasn't been Pedro for a while now. That's the fewest number of K's he's had this year, and against a pretty free-swinging team. Once we're mathematically out of it, I hope we shut him down for the rest of the season.

It'll look bad, but who gives a shit?

Either way, we should go with a six-man rotation the rest of the way. Petey needs his rest.

This game bit, by the way. My argument yesterday was that we didn't hit enough XBH, so today we provide that but still can't score. Pretty damn frustrating. We still played pretty solidly, though.

Any answer on what Matsui was thinking with the "shoulda been" double play?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Looked like he had trouble getting the ball out of his glove to me.

His one weakness as compared to Cairo is turning the DP and of course it comes back to kill us.

[Guest Edgy DC]

My game feed was breaking up, but I think FX was saying that Anderson was on deck with Diaz up, so I'd like to call Randolph out for something he didn't get a chance to do.

Mr. Randolph, batting .370 with your pinch hitters isn't helping if we keep gunning for singles when we need homers. They're going to toss it over the plate and play the lines and accept a single. We should be pumping out Jacobs and looking for the big fly there.

[Zvon]

Edgy DC wrote: My game feed was breaking up, but I think FX was saying that Anderson was on deck with Diaz up, so I'd like to call Randolph out for something he didn't get a chance to do. Mr. Randolph, batting .370 with your pinch hitters isn't helping if we keep gunning for singles when we need homers. They're going to toss it over the plate and play the lines and accept a single. We should be pumping out Jacobs and looking for the big fly there.

I agree that we should have seen Jacobs bat in this game at some point.

[Zvon]

I was waiting for the Met highlights on ESPN. I missed the game recap but did catch the play I was confused about earlier.
(I really wasnt paying attention during the 2nd half of the game, trying to keep abreast by reading CBSsl while handling some thinks AFK.)

Do I got this right?

a check swing grounder to Pedro and Giles scores from 2nd?

I remember just looking and reading ground out to pitcher, runner scores. Figured the guy was on 3rd.

Damn............thats nasty.

I didnt understand how that went down at the time.
The runners were going, so he wasnt gonna get a conventional 2 there.
No play at 3rd, I guess.
And Pedros back was to Giles.
Could Wright or the bench have yelled 3rd or home?
I know it was bang-bang but......
Thats just beyond heads up running by Giles.
I mean, that kind of thing just cannot be allowed to happen.

Id like to see a more complete look at this play.

[Guest Rotblatt]

a check swing grounder to Pedro and Giles scores from 2nd?

According to one of the daily rags, Ramon yelled something but Petey didn't hear him over the noise. Dougie was also pointing home, but Petey missed it.

On the replay this morning, it looked to me like Petey really didn't expect it and was taking his time throwing over to first since Old Man River is so slow.

Can't really blame him. That was a heads-up, ballsy play. If anyone's at fault, it's Ramon, whose job is to get Petey to go home there. Ramon also dropped the ball, so to speak, on the potential DP ball during Trach's game the other day--he should have been yelling at Trachs to let it drop.

I don't mean to bust on Castro here, but he could probably be a little more take-charge.

[Centerfield]

The Mets make me sad.

[Frayed Knot]

What I'm not sure about on that play is whether Reyes was covering 3rd (as he should have been). If not then there would have been little for Pedro to do even if he did realize that Giles was coming except maybe freeze him and lose the out at 1st. Because Wright was charging the slow roller and had his back to the play, there was nothing stopping Giles from not makng his huge turn.
If Reyes covers 3rd then a warning would have hung Giles out to dry but it's unclear whether Castro said anything. One of the announcers mentioned the other day that Willie (talking about some unrelated topic)thinks Castro isn't assertive enough at times and Trax claims that no word came from him on that bunt/pop-up the previous night.

[Zvon]

got a better look at this.

And it was pretty much just a ballsy heads up play by Giles.

Wright did come in have his back to the play.
If casrto did yell, well, thats one of the advantages of a home crowd. They make noise and I could understand him not being heard.

Im reading nothing about this in the NY papers---
more about the DP blotched by Matsui when he didnt even make the throw.

these excerpts are from CBSsl:

ATLANTA -- John Smoltz knew the Atlanta Braves had the hit-and-run on when Marcus Giles took a big lead and broke from second base in the sixth inning.

Staying out of a double play was important, so Smoltz figured his teammate would reach third easily when New York pitcher Pedro Martinez fielded Julio Franco's soft grounder.

Instead, Smoltz was ecstatic to see Giles keep running and score standing up, the final run in the Braves' 3-1 victory over the Mets on Tuesday night.

"That's a huge run for a pitcher," Smoltz said of the game's final run. "When you're battling, that run makes you feel like -- I wish hitters could appreciate what a pitcher feels like because that run's huge. He had it all the way. It was such a great play."

With Giles on second and Chipper Jones on first in the sixth, Martinez (13-7) fielded Franco's grounder near the third base line and seemed to forget about Giles, who was running toward third.

Giles had already rounded third when Martinez, who had his back turned to the runner, turned to throw out Franco. As soon as the ball left Martinez's hand, Giles scored easily.

"Obviously a double play is not in order with the runners going, so as a defender you're thinking, 'Get the runner out,'" Giles said. "When the swinging bunt happened, I had it my mind that I was going home, hoping that Pedro didn't get alerted that I was going."

Franco, who was credited with an RBI groundout, is slow enough that Martinez could have held Giles at third and still gotten the 47-year-old Atlanta first baseman out.

"That really never happened to me before," Martinez said. "I learned something different. Franco was running, and I knew I had to try to get him. I looked at the replay and the coach never sent (Giles). He just ran like somebody was chasing him."

Martinez pitched six innings, allowing five hits and three runs for New York, which has lost six of seven.

"I never expected Giles to score like that," Martinez said. "We are facing a smart team. Obviously, they are on top of their game."

[Frayed Knot]

From what I gathered from various print & radio snippets:

- Giles suprised even his coach by blowing around 3rd, it's not like that was a set play
- Reyes, as I suspected, did NOT rotate toward 3rd (acc to wwsb). That means all Pedro could have done is looked his way and hope that the glance would stop his charge because they was no way to throw behind him
- Willie reiterated that Castro is sometimes not as assertive as he could be ... maybe from still having a backup's mentality

Willie also said that Kaz claimed to have lost the handle on the ball on that potential GiDP

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: - Willie reiterated that Castro is sometimes not as assertive as he could be ... maybe from still having a backup's mentality Willie also said that Kaz claimed to have lost the handle on the ball on that potential GiDP

did Willie really say this about Castro to the media?
Why dont managers consider talking directly to a player anymore and keep stuff like that private and in the clubhouse?

Did he literally use the word 'claim' in re: to Matsui?

[Frayed Knot]

]did Willie really say this about Castro to the media? Why dont managers consider talking directly to a player anymore and keep stuff like that private and in the clubhouse?

Not really a big deal as far as I'm concerned. It's a minor tweak and he said he's talked to Castro about it in the past (as I mentioned in an earlier post this is not the first time I've heard it). Sometimes younger, less-established players are reluctant to act as if giving orders to older more-established types, even when it's called for.

]Did he literally use the word 'claim' in re: to Matsui?

I'm paraphrasing. Willie didn't give any hint that he didn't believe Kazuo.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: ]did Willie really say this about Castro to the media? Why dont managers consider talking directly to a player anymore and keep stuff like that private and in the clubhouse? Not really a big deal as far as I'm concerned. It's a minor tweak and he said he's talked to Castro about it in the past (as I mentioned in an earlier post this is not the first time I've heard it). Sometimes younger, less-established players are reluctant to act as if giving orders to older more-established types, even when it's called for.

yea, I can see this.
I just cant STAND a manager who plays the media before the team, and I get snappy when I think Willie might have don that.
Cripes, its a tuff gig to manage the Mets. Whoever you are.
Any big market team these days.
All those mics in your face, all lookin for a story or a way to spin one.

[Elster88]

]I just cant STAND a manager who plays the media before the team,

Bill Parcells did this all the time, to great effect, with two different New York teams, if I'm understanding what you mean by "plays the media". I'm interpereting that as, being critical of a player in front of the media.

Different sports, I realize, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if done correctly.
_____________________________
This post had the designation 161) Johnny Lewis

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: Mets are losing this game on defense. Not even bad defense, just defense not good enough to win, particularly for a bat-slumping team.

On the pregame show, Willie lamented about the recent lack of offense, and said that the team would have to win with pitching and defense.
But last night's starter is a sinkerball/ breaking ball pitcher. And we have seen that is the kind of pitcher against whom Jacobs has had good at bats. (He has had trouble with hard stuff up in the zone)
I'm wondering why Willie didn't give Jake the start. It would have put him in a situation where he might succeed.

Later