I Ain't Really Sweating This Nobody-Is-Pitching-Beyond-the-Fifth Thing

[Edgy MD]

I mean, it isn't good. Of course it isn't. But it really is more symptom than disease. More than a few times during this alleged streak, a pitcher has been pitching reasonably effectively — or maybe better than that — through five, with a perfectly reasonable amount of pitches thrown, and he still gets pulled. Holmes got pulled today after 75.

If this is the Mets crashing, it is the Mets crashing by design. This is a team that is engineering the game into the pen's hands.

[The Hot Corner]

Well, it certainly isn't translating to winning.

[Edgy MD]

No, I just do not think it is really the issue. It is disguising itself as such.

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, it's not helping. You can't use 4 or 5 relievers night after night after night and expect good results. If this is by design, then that's a big problem.

If you have starters who lose effectiveness after 75 pitches, maybe it's time to find new starters.

[Edgy MD]

Yes, and I agree, but the using four or five relievers is as much what they want as it is something that is thrust upon them.

I cannot conclude that somebody loses effectiveness after 75 pitches simply because that is when he is pulled.

I think, also, industry-wide, way too much is made of third-time-through-the-order figures.

[ashie62]

I mean, it isn't good. Of course it isn't. But it really is more symptom than disease. More than a few times during this alleged streak, a pitcher has been pitching reasonably effectively — or maybe better than that — through five, with a perfectly reasonable amount of pitches thrown, and he still gets pulled. Holmes got pulled today after 75.

If this is the Mets crashing, it is the Mets crashing by design. This is a team that is engineering the game into the pen's hands.

 

I'm more at the this isn't good point. Darling suggested Holmes got pulled to have a decent outing under his belt

Manaea is Manaea no worries

I don't know what to make of Senga. His numbers are very good but he doesn't look like himself

Peterson, nuff said

It doesn't help when the Mets don't hit much in support of these outings

So that brings up the number five starter and that is problematic. I'm not buying Blackburn can get it done on any level and I don't know how far away Megill is

I can see a path for Nolan McLane to get a shot. He went seven very good innings last outing. I watched it on TV and he looked like an MLB pitcher

So it isn't good but what can you really do?

Hit more? Sure

You've got Raley Rogers Reed Stanek Helsley and Diaz. Use them early and often

Edited August 6, 2025 by ashie62

[Edgy MD]

Well, one thing you can do is send Holmes back out in the sixth yesterday. Even one more out matters a bunch.

[ashie62]

Well, one thing you can do is send Holmes back out in the sixth yesterday. Even one more out matters a bunch.

 

They likely thought Holmes would blow up in the sixth, so they yanked him

I was ok to see him pulled.Holmes did look ripe for the taking

Don't know if it's Hefner, Mendoza or both but them seem committed to short hooks aside from Peterson and Holmes wasn't for long. They've done it to Manaea and Senga also

All the analytics aside you don't know what will happen on that third time through the order etc until you try

[Edgy MD]

Well, one thing you can do is send Holmes back out in the sixth yesterday. Even one more out matters a bunch.

 

They likely thought Holmes would blow up in the sixth, so they yanked him

 

What they think is what I question. If you think a guy who is succeeding will fail, so you pull him, then the narrative should not be that pitchers have failed to pitch into the sixth. The narrative should be that the manager will not allow pitchers to pitch into the sixth.

[MFS62]

Can you imagine what would have happened if a manager had yanked Bob Gibson or Randy Johnson after six innings?

They would be changing the manager (for medical reasons), not the pitcher.

Some of those pitchers should grow a pair and tell the manager, "Let me show you I can".

Later

[Edgy MD]

I think the scenes in the dugout suggest pitchers do push back against being yanked, pretty frequently. But now they are not just pushing back against the manager, but against the culture.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And the front office.

[Edgy MD]

Big-shot prospect (and filthy Canadian) Jonah Tong gave up no runs on three hits and two walks yesterday, striking out eight in five innings, to extend his all-minor-league-baseball-leading strikeout total. Rumble Ponies manager Reid Brigniac then pulled him from the game after 87 pitches and watched his team lose 3-2 after turning the game over to the bullpen.

Should the headline there be how Binghamton lost as another starter failed to pitch beyond the fifth?

[MFS62]

The Mets have had eight games in the last fifty in which the starting pitcher has pitched six or more innings.

And David Peterson was all eight.

Later