Carlos Beltran and other Hall of Fame candidates

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Carlos Beltran leads the list of newcomers to the Hall of Fame ballot, with lots of other Met connections.



Billy Wagner (eighth year)

Gary Sheffield (ninth year)

Jeff Kent (final year)

Bobby Abreu (fourth year)

R.A. Dickey (first year)

Francisco Rodriguez (first year)



Scott Rolen, in his sixth year, has to climb from 63.2 percent to 75. That's a pretty big jump, but the ballot has opened up a little with some big names dropping off last year. I think he, Todd Helton, and Wagner get within striking distance, but still fall short.



We'll see if Beltran in penalized for the trash cans.



Poll was limited to 25 names, so I took off J.J. Hardy, Bronson Arroyo, and Mike Napoli, thinking they were one-and-done guys.

[Edgy MD]

Lotta Charlie Manuel-era Phils.

[Ceetar]

Of those guys, Beltran is in my hall. Wagner too, and A-Rod, and Helton. Probably Manny. would have to do a little more research in some of the others, but might be a few others.

[kcmets]

Andy Pettitte hahaha...



I just coughed up some undigested cashews from Thursday afternoon

thinking that he's even mentioned in a candidate conversation.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm a "small Hall" kind of guy, so there's no way I would vote for ten players. I'd vote for Beltran. The rest of the players, I don't know. They all started their careers after I dialed back the amount of attention I pay to baseball so I'm not informed enough to know who should be in and who should be out. Maybe Wagner. Not K-Rod or A-Rod or Dickey.

[Frayed Knot]

SCOTT ROLEN !!!!





Todd Helton was 2nd but just a few ticks shy for induction.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: SCOTT ROLEN !!!!

He never led his league in any of the traditional counting stat categories, nor did he get a single vote from the CPF.

Those two things aren't related, but I thought it was interesting.



Later

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Rolen and Fred McGriff going in together!

[roger_that]

Rolen, Rolen, Rolen,

Keep those doggies movin'

Rawhide!

[nymr83]

I'm sad that RA Dickey dropped off the ballot

[Frayed Knot]

=roger_that post_id=117246 time=1674609830 user_id=128]
Rolen, Rolen, Rolen,

Keep those doggies movin'

Rawhide!

[metirish]

I guess I'm curious how Helton didn't get in but Rolen did ? Anyway he's probably a lock next year..

[Frayed Knot]

=metirish post_id=117258 time=1674651347 user_id=72]
I guess I'm curious how Helton didn't get in but Rolen did ? Anyway he's probably a lock next year..

[metirish]

Right, Beltran paying the price , surely a lock before the cheating , biggest question used to be what hat he would wear.

[vtmet7]

=nymr83 post_id=117247 time=1674612049 user_id=54]
I'm sad that RA Dickey dropped off the ballot

[MFS62]

When Rolen was playing, if you had asked me to name the 5 (10?) best active players, I might never have thought of Rolen. Maybe it was because he played for teams I really disliked.

But his career counting stats are very similar to those of Ken Boyer, Ron Santo and even Brooks Robinson.

And, like Robinson, was a multi-time gold glove winner.(yeah, I know)

So I guess if they are in the Hall, why not Rolen?

But I think Kent and Helton should have joined him.



Later

[vtmet7]

except, Brooks Robinson got in for his defense moreso than his offense...plus, the Orioles were in the playoffs 6 years, when only 4 teams made the playoffs & he was a pretty big influence on the team's results...



Rolen wasn't in Brooks' class defensively, and his offense wouldn't have gotten him in as a Left Fielder or a first baseman in a better class of candidates..



While Rolen has better power numbers than Keith, Keith was a better hitter overall and an exceptional defensive player...

When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?

[A Boy Named Seo]

except, Brooks Robinson got in for his defense moreso than his offense...plus, the Orioles were in the playoffs 6 years, when only 4 teams made the playoffs & he was a pretty big influence on the team's results... Rolen wasn't in Brooks' class defensively, and his offense wouldn't have gotten him in as a Left Fielder or a first baseman in a better class of candidates.. While Rolen has better power numbers than Keith, Keith was a better hitter overall and an exceptional defensive player... When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think: 1B: Keith; SS: Ozzie; 3B: Brooks; C: Pudge/Yadier; P: Gregg Maddux; 2B: ?

Damn, Rolen and Keith were surprisingly (to me) https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=rolensc01&player_id2=hernake01&type=btwo great comps, with almost identical games played, PAs and ABs. Rolen earned about 20 more dWAR than Keith, though, proving that being even the very best first defensive first baseman probably needs to come with 300 homers or 3000 hits if you wanna get your Hall pass.

[G-Fafif]

I saw Rolen choke off a rally in late August of 2001 and then hit an 11th-inning home run to altogether foil the Mets as they otherwise rose from their seasonlong doldrums to almost purloin the division title. That game and the two Brian Jordan Games added up to the difference between those Mets' forgotten third-place finish and the potential one-game playoff vs the Braves which would have had America flocking to the Mets' cause, a run that would be praised far and wide to this day for lifting a city and a nation in the wake of its darkest hour had it succeeded.



Instead, Rolen dives and grabs a sure Shinjo double with the bases loaded, throws out Piazza at the plate and we end up hearing about fucking Mr. November for the rest of time.



Congratulations nonetheless, Scott.

[MFS62]

=vtmet7 post_id=117291 time=1674678996 user_id=80]


When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?

[Frayed Knot]

I thought in your lifetime it was Eddie Collins











The very tiny bit I saw of MLBN last night included showing where Rolen's career WAR set him among all 3rd basemen (9th I think it was, or maybe higher) and then show the guys who were at the same level for career WAR at each of the other positions.

Every one of the others was a HoF'er

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, third base has historically something of a shortage in HoF representation, I think. I imagine that Adrian Beltre is going to be a first ballot guy.

[nymr83]

=MFS62 post_id=117299 time=1674682675 user_id=60]
=vtmet7 post_id=117291 time=1674678996 user_id=80]


When you think of the best defensive infielders of your lifetime, I think:

1B: Keith;

SS: Ozzie;

3B: Brooks;

C: Pudge/Yadier;

P: Gregg Maddux;

2B: ?

[Edgy MD]

Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met?



Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers.



As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met? Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers. As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.

Felix Millan was pretty good with a glove, too.

Later

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: I thought in your lifetime it was Eddie Collins

Does the CPF have a Human Resources department?

That's age harassment.

I'm turning your arse IN!

LOL!



Later

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Jose Lind? Doug Flynn? Robbie Alomar when not a Met? Frank White, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker are up there, and those last two should totally be Holla Famers. As much as folks raved about Ryne Sandberg, I really didn't like the way he played.

I have no real memory of Lind or Flynn. I did think of pre met Alomar, but he really stunk the joint up in queens too much for me to name him.



Most of my baseball memory is 1994 to the 2005. Post 2005 is shakier as life has been busier and MLB isn't number one in importance anymore

[vtmet7]

By the way, my name is not Bob... however it looks like Bob wrote an article today saying that Keith belongs in the HOF.



https://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/01/the-six-yankees-and-mets-who-should-be-in-cooperstown-klapisch.htmlhttps://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/01/the-six-yankees-and-mets-who-should-be-in-cooperstown-klapisch.html

[kcmets]

=MFS62 post_id=117314 time=1674690457 user_id=60]Does the CPF have a Human Resources department?

[MFS62]

Jeff Kent isn't happy:



https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/jeff-kent-blames-non-voting-stat-folks-as-hall-of-fame-dream-ends/https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/jeff-kent-blames-non-voting-stat-folks-as-hall-of-fame-dream-ends/

“The voting over the years has been too much of a head-scratching embarrassment,” Kent told he San Francisco Chronicle in a text. “Baseball is losing a couple generations of great players that were the best in their era because a couple non-voting stat folks keep comparing those players to players already voted in from generations past and are influencing the votes.”

Later