Ceetar

he was examined, just not 'intensively'. Do you then break a guy out of his routine for the sake of some tests? If he then bombed his next start as a result of not running or throwing a side session or whatever? It seems worse because it's the first we are hearing of this, but it's not the first the Mets are hearing of it. I'm not a doctor, and i'm not going to pretend to play one. I'm certainly not going to suggest the Mets should always go the conservative route because of previous PR disasters, some warranted, some not. They sent him to one doctor. they talked to him, they talked to trainers. They discussed it (and I believe some beat writers got all in a fit when the Mets wouldn't immediately release information, instead waiting to get together on it..) and proceeded with everyone on the same page. I'm not sure I can really ask for more than that.

that's weird.

Patrick Flood wrote: It�s gotten to the point that I half expect a coyote to hand Reyes dynamite when he�s on the basepaths, or him to reveal accidentally that he�s discovered how to bend the rules of the Matrix.

TransMonk wrote: I may Ceets is a dreamer, but he's not the only one... I'm still paying attention. I didn't think this team would be within sniffing distance of .500 at the halfway point, but here they are, sniffing away. I see it two ways, you can dream and imagine Johan coming back or just these guys playing good. Maybe Duda took a step towards being the Mets RFer for the next 20 years on Saturday and is going to carry this team Posey-style the rest of the way? Unlikely, but I'd rather daydream bout deciding if I want to go to both tuesday AND Wednesday on 9/13 9/14 because well Santana's pitching on the 14th, but the 13th they may have a chance with a Phillies loss to catch first place. or you can wonder where Reyes will end up next year, read up on all the 'great chemistry' Giants manager Boche and Reyes had at the All-Star Game, and wonder which prospects may or may not pan out and which ho-hum type players the Mets can sign in the offseason. We can read up on lawyer briefs and debate financial investments and really dig deep into analyzing the mental state of various Mets players.

Lance Johnson holds the Mets record for base hits in a season, with 227 in 1996. Let's track Jose Reyes's challenge. METS HITS IN A SEASON Through 78 NYM Games REYES 2011: 113 Johnson 1996: 105 And Reyes had those two days off due to his grandmother. He's one behind Adrian Gonzalez for the major league lead in hits. like 20 points off his AVG lead though, but Gonzo has 40 more points of BABIP too.

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Headed across state to see the Mets play the Tigers -- a rare opportunity for me to see the team in person! Anybody else going to be at any of the games? briefly flirted with the idea of traveling out there, but alas, no. Enjoy them.

Because we're "In it" in late June, are adding David Wright, and have a manager (and FO) that seems like they'll make the team better with their influence, not worse.

I really don't get it in this case, we get a walkoff win AND a free baserunner the next day and he's complaining?

Edgy DC wrote: Talk to your fiance tomorrow. Howie is remarking with astonishment that he saw a guy in the ballpark wearing a Kelvin Chapman jersey. Think that's one of our Chapmans? tomorrow, just not 1-4. Bay on the bench? Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed. Glad to see Duda get going, but after a 3 hit performance these pitchers may have been good for Bay to get going.

leadoff hit for the Rangers. Jerry, errr.. Ron, has the 2 hitter bunt in the first. Hamilton strikes out with blue eyes.

Duda with a double. Doublda?

Beltran drives one in the gap for a RF-assisted triple (he tried to slide to block it and booted it) Murphy Sac Fly for 3-0.

first two on, you kinda get the feeling that this game could hinge right here..will the Mets be the failure to hit with RISP and only stringing singles together, or can Beltran drive one and they cruise to an easy win?

Ashie62 wrote: The FOX over/under on discussing Reyes is 60 seconds.. and Endy's catch is 5 minutes.

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: They're sitting their blue-eyed left fielder, I see. Canadians don't play well in 98-degree heat. Don't hit it either.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: They're sitting their blue-eyed left fielder, I see. Neck stiffness. Turner jammed this thumb again. even the healthy guys aren't so healthy.

Edgy DC wrote: Rodriguez really is a much better pitcher than the other guys the Mets have. I don't believe this. But even if I did, that betterness spread out over seventy innings --- even as 45 of them are important, amounts to far too little. Probably. But I'm not going to scream and yell and predict the Mets to be worse if Sandy decides 2012 is better with him than without him. Even if it's at the 17.5 rate.

metsmarathon wrote: never is the best value a $17M reliever. never. not when the same level of performance at the same position can be had for but a fraction of the price. I tried to make this argument a couple of weeks ago somewhere, stating that _all_ closers were overrated. including Mariano, because he's a closer. I was mostly ridiculed, but I guess it's somewhat inconsistent to claim that, and this, but I'm just not totally convinced. No, the mets are not going to take the cap off at this point. I only mentioned it that way because you brought up the it doesn't matter if the payroll is 20 or 300. And yes, resigning Mariano and Jeter (less so A-Rod, at least originally. the opt out is where it got messy) was not the wise move, but it wasn't an economical/baseball one. But this is where we differ. It's not Never. And the same level of performance will not likely be obtained. Rodriguez really is a much better pitcher than the other guys the Mets have. And likely better than whoever they bring in, especially if we're talking about being economical about it and not paying for a 'name' guy. It's gotta be pretty rare that the random guy another team has given up on suddenly becomes a dominate reliever. Even if you're talking trading Frankie for a reliever that's well under control. How often do you get Heath Bell, versus getting Ambiourix Burgos? I'm just not a GM. I don't know what the other factors are. I imagine the reasons Sandy doesn't appear real worried about it is the same reason Omar wasn't worried about giving it to him. These options, while technically illegal, are easy to work around for the team. It's a way to give an extra year without giving an extra year. The Mets released Cora last year. They can release or trade K-Rod this year. Those are the rules of baseball. And you can make a lot of money in a pennant race, so that in this case, were the Mets to start hitting the ball and be say, 5 games above .500, the revenue created via a pennant race makes the hit taken from a vesting option much easier to swallow. I also believe there is a threshold. The Mets need to be better next year, for attendance to increase. People want to go to the games, but if the team looks like it's in a 3-year rebuilding mode, they're not going to come. If they start improving, they'll start coming, and again payroll can go back up. And a lot of season tickets are sold based on how the team finishes. If they have a fire sale, even a partial one with Beltran and K-Rod and a pitcher and end up tanking and finish down, no one will have faith for next year. Keep those guys, finish strong and suddenly it looks like the step towards a championship. '98, '85, '05 take your pick.

edit: nope, easy routine ball. Fields it going to his left, so it's not even a long throw. throws it in the dirt and gets away from the 1bman.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Hell of a game in Chicago, as: -- Jordan Zimmermann and Edwin Jackson match zeroes and strikeouts for seven scoreless. --The Nats push two across in the 8th (on a Morse homer) and one in the 9th, before handing the game over to closer Drew Storen... --... who promptly gives up two seeing-eye base hits, then a three-run boomer to Mark Teahen. --Sox closer Sergio Santos gives up a go-ahead shot in the top of the 10th to Laynce Nix. --Then, fueled by a one-out double from ex-Nat Adam Dunn, the Sox load the bases, then push the tying run across on a wild pitch. With one out, they proceed to strand all remaining runners. We're on to the 11th, tied at 4. Went to check how this ended. Nat's take a one run lead in the 12th. Brian Bixler doubles (1) on a line drive to right fielder Brent Lillibridge. Laynce Nix scores. Wilson Ramos to 3rd. but A. J. Pierzynski homers (3) on a line drive to right field in the bottom of the inning, with 2 out and 2 strikes, off Tyler Clippard. Top of the 14th, two outs, Ian Desmond reaches on throwing error by shortstop Alexei Ramirez. Brian Bixler scores. Ian Desmond to 2nd. for the go-ahead run. Bixler had stolen second and scored from there on this error, which I presume must've been at best in the hole that Ramirez smothered and wouldn't have scored a run. Nats score three more, Ramirez leads off the bottom of the inning but makes out.

themetfairy wrote: Demoralizing game - we were out of it from the start. Not really. There were a couple of times that the Mets almost knocked a few in and made it closer. Reyes DP for one, and that's an out-lier for sure. Of course, then they put Acosta in. Pick themselves up and get after it today.

metsmarathon wrote: ah hell. one last thing. unless the mets start burning money in a giant copper pot on the old shea stadium home plate, the 17 million they pay frankie will cause some amount of money to unavailable to improve the team in another area. and i contend that the amount of money that would be unavailable to improve other areas of the team will be 9 million dollars. and the only way that having frankie on the roster next year does not end up hurting them is if they win the world series, and if they do, then it will be in spite of the extra 9 million dollars they have wasted on their closer above his actually performance level, and not because of it. I'm grasping what you're saying. But I disagree with comparing value directly to payroll, because it's not directly proportional. First off, the regardless of budget thing, totally not true. if the Mets had money to burn, then they should keep the best possible reliever they can (really the best 7) and Frankie is probably that. This is why the overpaid Rivera (And yes, he's overpaid, as you point out above his highest value year according to WAR was actually a non-closer role and a result of pitching more innings) never hurt the Yankees. I agree it seems likely that 17 million may cause some portion of it not being able to be reinvested that would've been needed otherwise. But I don't know that. The only person that really has any idea is the one that's pretty much allowing him to vest. (or as a plan as to why he won't) So why should I get up in arms about how the Mets _must_ construct their roster, or value a particular role? The idea is to acquire the best players, not the most economical ones. From a purely talent standpoint, Frankie contributes more to winning than say, the next best available reliever on the market next year (Which isn't likely who would end up closing games) And he's mostly a known quantity, as far as any player can be. While I agree every year there are literally dozens of available relievers that put up good years for practically no money, even the smartest guys in the game are often unable to determine who those guys are before hand. The % chance K-Rod gives you 2 WAR is a pretty high number, but the % chance that the guys you invest in to replace him, in a bullpen sense? Buchholz, Byrdak, Carrasco, Beato, Acosta, etc? Or whatever random collection shows up next year? Car analogy doesn't really work, i'm not sure how to compare it. But what's the ultimate purpose of the car? Let's say you use it to do your job. You've got the $40k car. It's decked out with an expensive GPS and turbo boosters or something. Help you do your job. Not much better, but they help. Should you trade that in for a 25K car? Doesn't it depend on if you need a new washer, to refinish your basement and a new roof? And the price of those? What if someone presents you a solution for your roof that's a lot cheaper than you imagined (Let's say Kirk Nieuwenhuis get's called up, and looks really solid and presents confidence that he can play RF next year. One less thing we need to buy right) I just don't think this as black and white an issue as people are making it out to be. There are a lot of things in play. (Including that K-Rod doesn't actually want to be traded and does have a limited no-trade) renegotiations, how much Sandy values K-Rod, the closer role in general, and how much he'd spend on relievers next year to replace K-Rod. I think there are certainly scenarios where him on the Mets next year does make them a better team.

Vic Sage wrote: stop it, marathon. No amount of factual analysis will penetrate the cotton candy world in which Ceetar lives. When this stuff becomes religion to people, and its about faith, and miracles, and BELIEVING, then rational discourse goes out the window. Just like the Republican party. And i believe i'm providing plenty of factual argument to my case. The crux of the disagreement is over opinion on how the front office is going to proceed anyway. Most of us are pretty much in line with how much value K-Rod/Closer has to the game. Republican's helped do the right thing tonight in NY at least, some of them anyway, I'll give them a pass until morning.

how much could be done with 17 million? jason bay is crippling the team no? he's making 16 million. he's worth either 0.1 WAR or 0.5 WAR, according to fangraphs and bbref respectively. would frankie be anything other than equally crippling? he's worth about one win more than jason bay. But this is kind of my point. Frankie is good. Jason Bay is not. Bay's 16 million is a lot more damaging to the Mets, in part because you probably expect more of a 4-5 type WAR out of a guy like that in that position. But also because for every collection of players you add up to 17 million that you point to and say "Look how much value we got for this money from these guys" I can point to another allocation of that money (Say, Jason Bay) that is getting virtually no value. To me it makes more sense to try to replace the players providing no value, regardless of payroll. While nothing is guaranteed, you do kinda trust guys on your team to continue giving you roughly what they've been giving you. I'd expect 2 WAR from K Rod, You could reallocate that 17 million and get more, but you can also get less. If you can, if it's in the budget, if you can work around it, try to replace the 0 WAR guys, not the guys providing value, but are out of proportion to their contracts. Yes, it seems like Sandy could desperately use that 17 in better ways, but then again, he doesn't seem so worried about it either. There are at least four players that the Mets are paying a decent sum of money to that are providing little to no value, and that's not even including David Wright, who hasn't provided very much either. Of those 4, 2 won't be here next year and 1 will be providing value. well, hopefully anyway. I'm just not sure that they're up against the wall and need to get creative to find money to do what needs to be done. I'm not against trading K-Rod, for something worthwhile, but I just don't treat it as a must-dump OMG THE OPTION MIGHT VEST situation. I trust Sandy Alderson, the guy with (hopefully) all the facts about the situation. I trust he's not listening to the fans and saying "eh, let's just mail it in this season, these guys probably aren't that good." I understand the reasoning that since they're not technically players he signed maybe he can get away with that, but he did decide to keep them too. If Frankie's 14, or 17.5, or whatever is the reason the Mets can't sign Reyes, or even the reason they can't sign say a solid RF guy or a veteran backup catcher or fulltime catcher should we decide Thole isn't good, then yeah, ditch him, but it's not a given that that's the case. There is also no reason to do it for salary reasons this year. Trying to save a couple of bucks this year to apply to next year is very much like using one credit card to pay another. It sounds like he does want to try to get the payroll more directly proportional to revenue, and the Wilpons have stated that they do/have tried to budget seasons in that way. (failed lately, for many reasons) So it's not like the Mets are thinking, ooo, we save 4 million by trading him by the deadline.

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I've pretty much decided that Manny Acosta sucks. I'm expecting Buffalo fans, after getting over the helmet color change for the Bills, will remember that they'd already decided this.