duan

="Frayed Knot":2yl19znx]Well additional Type A signings will still mean the loss of additional draft picks: round 2, round 3, round 4, whatever. Either way, 3 x $12 sure beats the original estimates of 5 x $15[/quote:2yl19znx] yes, but they're of alot less value then the two picks we'll get for Perez between 16 and 45 (i don't know where along the sandwich they'll be!) Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 10:15 AM Well, it is starting to sound like Frankie is just about wrapped up. That would be good; we can get the closer search behind us and Omar can move on to other stuff. Valadius Dec 09 2008 10:22 AM Sometimes I think that they've replaced Peter Gammons with an android. Edgy DC Dec 09 2008 11:24 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 09 2008 11:35 AM So, seriously, on a scale of one to ten, one being a feeling of imminent doom, and ten being an air of teflon imperturbability, how afraid will you be (assuming the Mets ink him) that this guy's been pitching his arm off? Having just lost a big-ticket closer for a year and a third, and probably a playoff berth with him, I'm a mite wary. metirish Dec 09 2008 11:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 09 2008 11:43 AM I'm not really afraid of that , he has a violent motion but I don't think Wharton will try and change that . I think that's where trouble might come if they try and change him. I will put my level of concern at 4 Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 11:40 AM I'll put my level of concern at a 6. I don't know if this is realistic or not, but I hope that the Mets will be able to groom a successor from within. So maybe, if Rodriguez has an injury-plagued year in 2010 or 2011, a guy like Smith or Parnell can step up and inherit the closer role. soupcan Dec 09 2008 11:47 AM I think if you are a Mets fan and not concerned with your closer then you haven't been paying attention. Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 11:55 AM I'm concerned with the whole damn bullpen. The impression I'm getting is that the Mets want to hang on to Smith, Stokes, and Feliciano and are willing to part with Schoeneweis and Heilman. If it's true that Heilman and Feliciano would have brought back Howston Street, then maybe including Schoeneweis instead would do the trick. (I'm not at all sure, by the way, why Feliciano would be more desirable than Schoeneweis.) Centerfield Dec 09 2008 11:56 AM I'm concerned. That's why I'm willing to drive to Denver to deliver Feliciano and Heilman for Huston Street. Nymr83 Dec 09 2008 12:26 PM ]I'm not at all sure, by the way, why Feliciano would be more desirable than Schoeneweis.) salary difference? Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 12:40 PM That would make sense. Edgy DC Dec 09 2008 12:50 PM There's that dropoff in his K/9 that is intimidating: 9.94 13.17 12.16 12.08 12.03 10.14 I think he's also got a few baby mommas. Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 01:12 PM Is there some kind of an affinity that Venezuelans have for the number 57? Or is it just a coincidence that Johan and Frankie both wear that number? John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2008 01:20 PM He's definitely not going to help the Mets' rep as poor sports. And you gotta wonder with prices down why the Angels aren't hurrying to retain him. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2008 01:39 PM Yeah so reports are saying this is a done deal. And what do you know, vesting option for year 4. Edgy DC Dec 09 2008 01:43 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":30hfafmk]He's definitely not going to help the Mets' rep as poor sports. [/quote:30hfafmk] No, I suspect he won't. I've visited a few Halo discussion boards to read comments like "I'm going to miss him. Even though he's such a douche, he's really good at what he does." Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 01:45 PM ="OlerudOwned":w9avw6n8]I believe nothing unitl it falls from the lips of Peter Gammons Ken Rosenthal. NOTHING! [/quote:w9avw6n8] ="Ken Rosenthal":w9avw6n8]The New York Mets have reached an agreement in principle with All-Star closer Francisco Rodriguez on a three-year, $37 million contract, according to major-league sources. The deal includes a $14 million vesting option for a fourth year that would raise the total value of the contract to $51 million. The deal is contingent upon Rodriguez passing a physical, and the language of the contract still needs to be finalized. That vesting option is within reach as long as Rodriguez pitches his normal number of innings as a closer, either in the third year of the deal or in a combination of years two and three. "Basically, he's just got to be healthy," one source said. The deal also includes performance bonuses that are considered within reasonable reach. News of an imminent deal was first reported by the New York Post. Contract figures were first reported by SI.com.[/quote:w9avw6n8] seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 01:51 PM Bingo bango. Welcome abordick, Senor Rodriguez. Now stand on the table and sing your college fight song. bmfc1 Dec 09 2008 01:53 PM Do we have to call him "F Rod"? How about "Frank", "Frankie"? Valadius Dec 09 2008 01:54 PM Now we need to rebuild the rest of the bullpen. We have the technology. metirish Dec 09 2008 01:55 PM Mr. Rodriguez , Rodriguez but not K-Rod or any variation of it. At least I will try and stick to that. G-Fafif Dec 09 2008 02:10 PM Get some decent setup men in there and they can be Frank(i)e & The Knockouts. Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 02:20 PM I'll never call him K-Rod. "Frankie" sounds better to me. G-Fafif Dec 09 2008 02:25 PM Wasn't there already[/url:2wqvsdkw] a Frankie Rodriguez? sharpie Dec 09 2008 02:28 PM Let's hope our Frankie Rodriguez doesn't start putting up numbers like that Frankie Rodriguez. seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 02:31 PM "Frod" sounds good. Goes well with "Fartinez." Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 02:49 PM What uniform number would you give him? I guess he'll get his choice of all available numbers, but I'd like to see him get a 47. Or maybe 58. That way we can keep our "big splash" Venezuelan pitchers numerically sequenced. Valadius Dec 09 2008 02:51 PM 62. Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 02:55 PM Mets vs. Frankie Centerfield Dec 09 2008 03:06 PM Marlon Anderson owns him. Which means that we now have one reason to retain Marlon Anderson for next year. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2008 03:07 PM ]What uniform number would you give him? Mets by the Numbers is reporting he's going to go for 75. Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2008 03:18 PM ="Centerfield":3oavbtld]Marlon Anderson owns him. Which means that we now have one reason to retain Marlon Anderson for next year.[/quote:3oavbtld] The other way of looking at it is that Marlon will no longer be facing the one guy he can hit against. Gwreck Dec 09 2008 03:23 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3v797aff]Mets vs. Frankie[/quote:3v797aff] I'd forgotten that we got one of his blown saves in 2008. 86-Dreamer Dec 09 2008 03:30 PM I'm pleased. It was a glaring need, he has been among the best at his position for several years, he is 26, and he was signed for less years and dollars than most would have guessed just a few weeks ago. I'd gladly swap Heilman and Feliciano for Howston Street if that really is an option. If not, I'd consider a one year deal to Hoffman to setup. His left/right splits are a concern, but his overall WHIP, K/9 and walk rate are still quite good. No idea if he values another 30 saves more than a chance to pitch for a contending team. OlerudOwned Dec 09 2008 04:30 PM If he went down from 57 to 54, he'd be using the number of now-former teammate and fellow Venezuelan Ervin Santana, who legally changed his name in 2003 to avoid confusion with his namesake at the time, Johan Santana. Kong76 Dec 09 2008 05:17 PM I took love it, love the years compared to all the speculation. Shoulda just started a new thread for the poll imgaho. metirish Dec 09 2008 06:10 PM Couldn't beat this with a big stick , got to like it for the years and if it turns out golden then he gets a few more years , turns out pear shaped he's not here for long. Nymr83 Dec 09 2008 06:15 PM I voted Neutral because I feel that big contracts for relievers fail and much as they succeed, but I'm happy to have Rodriguez on the Mets for 2009. Rockin' Doc Dec 09 2008 06:25 PM Nice start to the off season. Now all Omar has to do is add a starter to the rotation, get an upgrade at either left field, second base, or catcher, and then get 2-3 more reliable arms for the bullpen to get games to senor Rodriguez. There is still a lot of work to do, but this is a great start. I like the deal quite a bit. This free agent market is shaping up to be a good buyers market. Hopoefully, the Mets can fill a few of their other needs while the market is depressed. Fman99 Dec 09 2008 07:28 PM I heart Frankie. This guy was the best closer on the market and it didn't cost any young talent. metirish Dec 09 2008 07:33 PM It will cost the Mets draft picks as you know , with the very easy vesting option this might as well be a four year deal. Kong76 Dec 09 2008 07:34 PM Ny83: I voted Neutral because I feel that big contracts for relievers fail and much as they succeed, but I'm happy to have Rodriguez on the Mets for 2009 <=== He couldn't have been had for '09 without a few more years added on. The thing to be happy with is it wasn't sick six or five years like what might have happened in a better market. The guy is young and it's worth the gamble no matter what your fantasy spreadsheets are telling you. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 09 2008 07:58 PM I think the Mets'll get good value for the money/years. Prospectus' MORP puts Rodriguez at 14.3, 10.5, and 8.3 million over the next three years. So the Mets probably overpaid a little, but they're one of the few teams that can afford to do that, and they got the best available closer. I put down "Love it". Now, Fuentes or Wood for set-up? Frayed Knot Dec 09 2008 08:10 PM Wood & Fuentes are going to get closer money and aren't going to come here for set-up duties. Valadius Dec 09 2008 08:11 PM Wood looks like he's going to Cleveland. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 09 2008 09:09 PM ="Frayed Knot":1b7mjflt]Wood & Fuentes are going to get closer money and aren't going to come here for set-up duties.[/quote:1b7mjflt] I know, I just wonder if they were offered closer money if they would accept a setup role. Fman99 Dec 09 2008 09:29 PM ="metirish":3kn98oo4]It will cost the Mets draft picks as you know , with the very easy vesting option this might as well be a four year deal.[/quote:3kn98oo4] True -- I was thinking more of the guys currently in their system that keep coming up in trade rumors - Evans, Parnell, Martinez, etc. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 07:26 AM Back page of the Daily News: K TO THE CITI. Sign of how things have changed. A year ago it would have probably been "SHEA K" I voted that I like the deal. I know you need good arms in the bullpen, so therefore this will help. But I think the importance of celebrity closers is overrated, so I don't see this as having the kind of impact they got from getting Santana. willpie Dec 10 2008 08:51 AM I went for Like. I'm on the verge of Love, especially for that amount of money. I'm worried about his arm, though. Between his antics and Reyes's, we ought to see some good fights this year. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 08:57 AM His antics really are a bit much. I don't think I've ever seen him pitch, (the Mets games in Anaheim this year were well past my bedtime) but I saw some clips last night in the opening montage of Mets Hot Stove Report. batmagadanleadoff Dec 10 2008 10:12 AM I voted "Love It". The Mets obtained one of baseball's best relievers. I don't see how any Met fan could not love this acquisition. I understand that FR might underperform, or even flop in 2009. But so could Beltran. Or Wright. Today, no one knows for sure, either way. By the way, this Mets pickup is hardly back-page headline worthy any more: Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 11:23 AM Pass the physical! Physical! You gotta pass the physical! Come on pass the physical Let me hear the trainer talk! Trainer talk! Let me hear the trainer talk! Valadius Dec 10 2008 11:39 AM C.C. Sabathia and Mo Vaughn having dinner - how much food would be consumed? Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 11:41 AM All of it metirish Dec 10 2008 01:29 PM Some nuggets here from David Lennon. ] The Mets will the announce the signing of Francisco Rodriguez here at the Bellagio later Wednesday afternoon when GM Omar Minaya steps to the podium. Rodriguez completed his physical in New York earlier Wednesday to clear the way to make the three-year, $37-million deal official. Also, new details emerged Wednesday about the speedy negotiations with the free-agent closer: -- When K-Rod and his agent, Paul Kinzer, had dinner with the Mets on Sunday night, they were pleasantly surprised when the team executives got a call from Johan Santana, who had no idea they were meeting with Rodriguez. K-Rod, a fellow Venezuelan, idolizes Santana and was thrilled that he called. The Mets handed the phone to K-Rod and the two talked. In retrospect, it was a turning point as Santana expressed his excitement that K-Rod could be closing games for him. The Mets blew seven saves for Santana last season. -- After the Mets' initial offer of two years, $24 million, the two sides had marathon negotiating sessions on Monday that stretched until 5 a.m. Tuesday morning in Omar Minaya's suite. The clock was ticking because COO Jeff Wilpon was leaving Las Vegas on his private jet at 7:40 a.m.Tuesday and both sides wanted a deal done before then. Kinzer even brought in K-Rod for the final two hours of those talks just so he could see the urgency and stress involved. -- Just as the Mets badly needed K-Rod, he needed them too, and both sides seemed to realize that. Kinzer stressed that K-Rod is best on the big stage and that's why New York is perfect for him. A few other teams were involved with K-Rod, but not the Cardinals -- as was reported -- or the Angels, despite the bottom falling out of the closer market. -- So what number will K-Rod wear? His first choice is 57, but that's taken by Santana. Next is 37, but that once belonged to Casey Stengel and is retired. So that leaves his next favorite, the No. 17, which Fernando Tatis wore last season and was famously owned by Keith Hernandez. It's safe to say that K-Rod may be able to wrangle the No. 17 from Tatis -- perhaps with a new Rolex or some other token of appreciation. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 01:42 PM So he likes the number seven, but seems to not want an even number in the tens column. 17, 37, 57, 77, 97. 97 would be a cool number. seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 01:49 PM Fucking hell, Frod. 17 is Keith Fucking Hernandez's number. Take 77 and like it. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 01:56 PM ="Adam Rubin":1imbkppa]Las Vegas - Francisco Rodriguez was at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan Wednesday morning, undergoing a physical. There was no official word on K-Rod passing the physical, though the Mets hope to make an announcement within hours that he's cleared the medical hurdle. A press conference is expected to be held next Wednesday in New York. With Citi Field not ready to host press conferences, the location of next week's event is unclear. Rodriguez agreed to a three-year, $37 million deal Tuesday with a fourth-year vesting option based on games finished.[/quote:1imbkppa] They should all put on hardhats and have the press conference at what's left of Shea Stadium. Valadius Dec 10 2008 02:03 PM ="seawolf17":19bv4xds]Fucking hell, Frod. 17 is Keith Fucking Hernandez's number. Take 77 and like it.[/quote:19bv4xds] This is why we retire numbers. Centerfield Dec 10 2008 02:14 PM ="seawolf17":30mm7xcs]Fucking hell, Frod. 17 is Keith Fucking Hernandez's number. Take 77 and like it.[/quote:30mm7xcs] DAE. SUNG. KOO. metirish Dec 10 2008 02:18 PM Mr. Koo did that number proud. Zvon Dec 10 2008 02:59 PM I like this. Can't feel the love for it until I see what he does for us. I learned a long time ago not to throw my heart around like that. Landing a real closer was my number one concern, and its been addressed. The deal is at a nice price and length. So I'm really liking this. G-Fafif Dec 10 2008 04:24 PM E-mail from mets.com says K-Rod goes for No. 75. Fman99 Dec 10 2008 08:04 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":ti8ow5qk]="Adam Rubin":ti8ow5qk]Las Vegas - Francisco Rodriguez was at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan Wednesday morning, undergoing a physical. There was no official word on K-Rod passing the physical, though the Mets hope to make an announcement within hours that he's cleared the medical hurdle. A press conference is expected to be held next Wednesday in New York. With Citi Field not ready to host press conferences, the location of next week's event is unclear. Rodriguez agreed to a three-year, $37 million deal Tuesday with a fourth-year vesting option based on games finished.[/quote:ti8ow5qk] They should all put on hardhats and have the press conference at what's left of Shea Stadium.[/quote:ti8ow5qk] You were close. Frank et al. were at the new park, but donning the Mets hardhats, which are damn foolish looking if you're not welding something. Big "Mets welcome K-Rod" sign at CitiField. They apparently aren't reading this thread. SteveJRogers Dec 10 2008 08:39 PM =Adam Rubin]A press conference is expected to be held next Wednesday in New York. With Citi Field not ready to host press conferences, the location of next week's event is unclear. Interesting. They can not host press conferences, but last September advertisements in the Mets program suggested that starting this winter, i.e. now, Citi Field would ready to be hosting "events" (corporate, weddings, whatever the heck they did at Shea) and were soliciting reservations. batmagadanleadoff Dec 11 2008 09:45 AM It's still Autumn. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 09:50 AM May also have to do with communication-type stuff and broadcasting abilities coming in later than banquet rooms. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 09:53 AM I'm guessing they have to wait until Citi Field is no longer a hard-hat zone. metirish Dec 13 2008 12:46 PM K-Rod jumps right into Mets-Phillies rivalry BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com 12:53 PM EST, December 13, 2008 Francisco Rodriguez didn't even wait for his first save to jump into the war of words between the Mets and Phillies. In a telephone news conference today, K-Rod's first interaction with the New York media, the Mets' new closer proclaimed his confidence in his new teammates. "Of course we're going to be the frontrunner," Rodriguez told reporters. "Of course were going to be the team to beat. "I don't want there to be a controversy. I don't want the other team to take it personally, or take it in a bad way. But I'm a really competitive guy. I like to win. "If they ask me, "Who's going to be the ball club that will win the National League East, it'll be the Mets." "Team to beat" has become a well-known phrase in the Mets-Phillies rivalry. Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins first used the words to describe his team prior to the 2007 season, and Rollins proceeded to win the National League Most Valuable Player award as his team lived up to that proclamation. This past season, during spring training, the Mets' Carlos Beltran, usually soft-spoken, declared his club as the team to beat. The Mets couldn't quite make Beltran look good, giving up a mid-September divisional lead. On Thursday, Phillies ace Cole Hamels upped the ante when, on an interview with WFAN, he referred to the Mets as "choke artists." Rodriguez said that his velocity did drop in 2008, as many scouts and opponents observed, but that it happened because he was working in a new pitch, a changeup that proved effective. In 2009, he said, his velocity should return to the mid-90s now that he's more comfortable with the arm action needed to make his fastball and changeup look identical out of his hand. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:25 PM On Thursday, Phillies ace Cole Hamels upped the ante when, on an interview with WFAN, he referred to the Mets as "choke artists." Well..he's not totally off base But I signed up for phillienation under a bogus ID and sent Chase Utley a less than friendly "get well" email. metirish Dec 17 2008 11:29 AM Looks like Barry Bonds. Mets introduce Rodriguez. metirish Dec 17 2008 01:56 PM > Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 02:03 PM He has "K-ROD" monogrammed into his shirts? Oh, brother. I'm afraid that nickname isn't going to go away any time soon. But, wow, don't Jeff and Jerry seem thrilled? You'd think a faulty bullpen caused them to miss the playoffs last season. metirish Dec 17 2008 02:08 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":1i00hhby]He has "K-ROD" monogrammed into his shirts? Oh, brother. I'm afraid that nickname isn't going to go away any time soon. But, wow, don't Jeff and Jerry seem thrilled? You'd think a faulty bullpen caused them to miss the playoffs last season.[/quote:1i00hhby] That Jeff can smile like that after Dad got taken to the cleaners is admirable. I admire you Jeffy Wilpon , nothing stands in this mans way. Centerfield Dec 17 2008 02:08 PM Meanwhile Omar has a look that seems to say "This shit had better work or I'm gonna end up bantering with Kruk on Baseball Tonight." Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2008 02:12 PM Ain't dat the troof! My concern is that Omar is fixing last year's problem, which is well and good, but not addressing next year's problem. I don't like how he's standing pat on the offense. Sure, they scored a lot of runs last year, but guys like Delgado and Tatis are both one year older (actually, everyone is, but it's more of an issue with the old guys!) and we might also see decline from guys like Church and Castillo. themetfairy Mar 30 2009 10:58 AM I couldn't find the thread where we were discussing possible nicknames for our new closer. However, I was at the Modell's in Herald Square yesterday, and there was a lot of K-Rod 75 merchandise on display. metirish Mar 30 2009 11:01 AM One of the TV guys said that Rodriguez does not like or want to be called K-Rod...I think it was keith who said it....goes by Frankie..

3 years and 37-39 million is the kind of deal that the mets should think about pulling the trigger on. Then they need to sign a few more Type A free agents cause they've already lost the draft picks

how's about i say this. neither of them are hall of famers.

Rickey, Raines & Blyleven. I also think that Tommy John deserves consideration, what he endured has probably had more impact on the pitcher then any other thing, to me, that's Hall of Fame.

ok free agents who just go more attractive to the mets cause they won't cost a first round pick (remember though, if we sign ONE type A free agent who was offered arbitration we lose the first round pick, so if we're signing one we might as well sign plenty as the value on the subsequent picks is substantially lower). Bobby Abreu (the yankees scared of him accepting and getting $16 million) Kerry Wood Pat Burrell Adam Dunn. Jamie Moyer Trevor Hoffman Guys who we've been linked to who now definitely would cost us our first round pick Derek Lowe Manny Ramirez Mark Texiera Francisco Roderiguez Brian Fuentes Orlando Hudson Raul Ibanez ***** In the front offices head, they SHOULD be aware of a domino effect here, If you're going to sign Derek Lowe go ahead and sign Ibanez and Fuentes. We'll still get the pics from Oliver Perez, so the 2nd/3rd type A free agents will just be sandwich picks and our later picks. ****** Kerry Wood and Bobby Abreu are now quite a bit higher up my list.

I don't think there's ever been a finer moment in baseball then koo's triple.

one hunch that if have is there's a real issue with the lack of multiple innings that the managers draw from relievers. if you're leading 4-1 in the 7th inning and pull the starter, I'm up for trying to squeeze 2 1/3 from one guy. Too often we fall into the one inning 12 pitch trap. If a guy has a successful 1st inning I'm wondering how often does he have a successful 2nd one. anyone got any stats out there?

blast from the past. distant past.

="Edgy DC"]If shortstops as a group are out-hitting secondbasemen, they shouldn't be. It suggests Managers shoUld be moRe intrePid about wHo they plaY at second. I think this is very true. One thing that IS worth pointing out though, is that the other perceived wisdom is that 2nd base is a position that is more prone guys getting banged up and that maybe that has an impact on their performance. anyway, for me if Daniel Murphy can turn a double play neatly, I have him playing for us with the strike out/flyball pitchers (Santana & Maine) and have Castillo playing for Pelfrey and/or late inning situations.

="Vic Sage":2mpx20dr]If true, this is pointless for the Mets. Furcal's value is as a SS. He's not worth as much as a 2bman, and not really much more than Castillo, who we are currently overpaying.[/quote:2mpx20dr] Jay Satan Post! Agggh! take issue with that - our assumption is that shortstop is a weaker offensive position, A OBP: .338, SLG: .408, OPS: .746 B OBP: .335, SLG: .441, OPS: .776 C OBP: .337, SLG: .432, OPS: .769 D OBP: .339, SLG: .410, OPS: .749 that's AL & NL SS's and 2b's jumbled up - you tell me which is which, and tell me then is an offensive plus at 2nd a bigger or smaller deal. (hey i've given you the answer in the quesitons that i'm asking) Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 07:49 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 25 2008 08:11 PM If shortstops as a group are out-hitting secondbasemen, they shouldn't be. It suggests Managers shoUld be moRe intrePid about wHo they plaY at second. Nymr83 Nov 25 2008 08:03 PM ="Edgy DC"]If shortstops as a group are out-hitting secondbasemen, they shouldn't be. It suggests Managers shoUld be moRe intrePid about wHo they plaY at second. I agree that Murphy should play given the roster as it stands now. But I don't think theres any reason that Shortstops shouldn't outhit Second Basemen in any given year, the two positions are right next to each other on the "defensive spectrum" right? (You'd expect a position on the easier side of the spectrum to outhit one on the harder side because it should be easier to slot a hitter into those positions.) Since the two positions are next to each other I wouldn't necessarily expect 2B to outhit SS every year, and it could be (i havent looked) that while the mean is higher the median starter at SS vs. 2B isn't, it could be that Rodriguez and others at the top are weighing those stats alot. Gwreck Nov 26 2008 12:18 AM 2008: Better 2B PHI (Utley / Rollins) CHC (DeRosa / Theriot) COL (Barmes / Tulowitzki) CIN (Phillips / Keppinger) SF (Durham / Vizquel) LA (Kent / Berroa+Furcal) Pretty Close ARZ (Hudson / Drew) ATL (Johnson / Escobar) STL (Kennedy / Izturis) PIT (Sanchez / Wilson) SD (Iguchi / Greene) Better SS FLA (Uggla / Ramirez) NYM (Castillo / Reyes) HOU (Matsui / Tejada) MIL (Weeks / Hardy) WAS (Lopez / Guzman) Nymr83 Nov 26 2008 12:28 AM The conclusion I'm drawing from that is that there is no reason to expect more offensive production out of either position, at least not in 2008. duan Nov 26 2008 03:05 AM ="Edgy DC"]If shortstops as a group are out-hitting secondbasemen, they shouldn't be. It suggests Managers shoUld be moRe intrePid about wHo they plaY at second. I think this is very true. One thing that IS worth pointing out though, is that the other perceived wisdom is that 2nd base is a position that is more prone guys getting banged up and that maybe that has an impact on their performance. anyway, for me if Daniel Murphy can turn a double play neatly, I have him playing for us with the strike out/flyball pitchers (Santana & Maine) and have Castillo playing for Pelfrey and/or late inning situations. Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 06:25 AM ="Nymr83":2flrdrj9]The conclusion I'm drawing from that is that there is no reason to expect more offensive production out of either position, at least not in 2008.[/quote:2flrdrj9] I agree you shouldn't expect more out of second. But I think you should demand more. duan's proposal makes too much sense.

is a professional player, though the average earnings wouldn't be enormous. However, the Indian Premier League - a 20/20 competition is changing everything, quite a few players are on over $1 million. The money that indian cricketers make through sponsorship and endorsements is also huge - Sachin Tendulkar would probably be worth $25-40 millon or something like that.

I hated the line of "he's too important to the bullpen" the fact of the matter is a bullpen arm is a lot less expensive to replace then a starting one. Ryan Dempster's getting a $52 million contract on the basis of last seasons starting stats, not on his bullpen performance of the previous 3 years or so. The best 2/3 relievers in the market will be lucky to get in the that range. So if you will, be Aaron Heillman and compare your career arcs to Mr Dempsters and see whether in two years time you'd prefer to have had a decent run at starting to see whether you could be as good a starter as you were a reliever in 06 & 07

kinda guy who's on the bubble might be Jose Sanchez who repeated at binghamton with reasonable success. Jose Coronado is the only hitter at Binghamton who isn't on that maybe should be.

jaysus. that looks like a lot of looking things up to see when people signed. The one that is definite if he needs to go on is Mike Carp. Hopefully they'll find this years Jesus Flores rather then having him snatched away.

yeah i laughed at that one.

="Edgy DC":1aelqa4m]It looks like he invalidated himself by two at-bats this year.[/quote:1aelqa4m] well considering they didn't notice the edinson volquez had pitched y'know 80 innings in two seasons before last I wouldn't think they'll hold that against Murphy. metirish Nov 20 2008 09:01 AM The Mets' Daniel Murphy was batting .397 (25-for-63) with eight doubles, two home runs and 18 RBIs in 15 games in the Arizona Fall League. (Newsday / David L. Pokress) ] The Mets' second-base experiment with Daniel Murphy temporarily has been shelved now that he is scheduled to have an MRI on his right knee today at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Murphy, 23, left the Arizona Fall League after complaining of "discomfort" in the knee during batting practice before a game on Nov. 11. The Mets have refused to categorize the injury as either a sprain or strain until the results of the MRI and it is uncertain whether he will return to finish the AFL season. Murphy was batting .397 (25-for-63) with eight doubles, two home runs and 18 RBIs in 15 games for the Peoria Saguaros. General manager Omar Minaya insists that Murphy was not being groomed as a potential second baseman for next season despite his duties with Peoria. But with the Mets in the market for an everyday leftfielder -- perhaps free agent Raul Iba�ez -- the more positions Murphy can play, the better chance he has of contributing at the major-league level. It is highly unlikely that the Mets would try to get by with another platoon of Murphy and Fernando Tatis in leftfield, despite its success last season. Murphy, a surprise call-up in early August, batted .313 (41-for-131) with nine doubles, two home runs and 17 RBIs in 49 games for the Mets. He also hit .375 (12-for-32) with runners in scoring position and batted .462 as a pinch hitter with one homer, five RBIs and six walks. soupcan Nov 20 2008 10:14 AM New York Post is a bit more dramatic... ]MURPHY'S KNEE WORRIES METS By BART HUBBUCH November 20, 2008 -- This doesn't sound good. Mets left fielder and rising star Daniel Murphy was flown back to New York from the Arizona Fall League last night for an MRI exam this morning on his ailing right knee. Murphy felt discomfort in the knee during pregame batting practice Nov. 11 and hasn't played in the AFL since. Murphy, by far the biggest (and most pleasant) surprise for the Mets this past season, already has missed time in Arizona this fall due to a lacerated forearm suffered during the league's "Rising Stars" game last month. Murphy, who is slated to platoon in left with Fernando Tatis next season, has been tearing up the AFL when healthy. Murphy is hitting .397 with two homers and 18 RBIs in 15 games. The Mets, meanwhile, remain in a holding pattern in their pursuit of a new closer because they are awaiting the medical records of Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes. The Mets also might have to find a new No. 1 target for their rotation after 35-year-old righty Derek Lowe reportedly opened the free-agent bidding yesterday asking for a whopping $16 million per season. bhubbuch@nypost.com Frayed Knot Nov 20 2008 10:46 AM Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem themetfairy Nov 20 2008 10:57 AM ="Frayed Knot":2tmg2xab]Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem[/quote:2tmg2xab] Well, they are connected.... metirish Nov 20 2008 08:01 PM ="Frayed Knot"]Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem Update from Lennon ] Update on Murphy It appears that what the Mets intially believed was a knee issue for Murphy is actually a hamstring strain. Good thing they got him to an MRI machine. Here's the full update from the team below: The Mets Daniel Murphy underwent an MRI this morning at New York�s Hospital for Special Surgery and the test revealed that he has a Grade 2 Strain of the right hamstring. Murphy felt discomfort in the leg in pre-game batting practice of his November 11th Arizona Fall League game. He will skip winter league ball in Puerto Rico so that he can be ready for the opening of Spring Training this February in Port St. Lucie, Fla. smg58 Nov 21 2008 06:30 AM Murph doesn't need to prove anything in winter ball at this point anyway. If you're going to have an injury that sidelines you for a month, November is a good time to have it. soupcan Nov 21 2008 07:22 AM Paging Mackey Shilstone... Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 08:26 AM I never posted the final numbers. Eddie Kunz never did right his ship --- at all --- but there were a lot of positives to walk away with, even as Bowman and Thole regressed toward the mean. If Thole ever gets some sextra base power, he'll be a prospect. You couldn't have reasonably asked for more out of Bobby Parnell. In fact, considering his college profile and his draft slot, you've already gotten more out of Bobby Parnell than you ever deserved. Congratulations to the Mets on that inspired pick. League leaders: Moirphy was thoid in the league in OBP, fifth in average, twelfth in slugging, good for the tenth-best OPS before he checked out. Parnell was third in wins, sixth in ERA, ninth in WHIP. Vargas was fourth in ERA, fourth in WHIP. He also led the league in holds with five. Stoner was tenth in WHIP. Kunz was tied for first in games, and fifth in games finished, and probably tied for first in games fucked up. But he was also tied for fourth in saves with two. Let's just hope Dropkick is healthy in spring. Player�POS�G�AB�R�H�2B�3B�HR�RBI�TB�BB�SO�SB�CS�OBP�SLG�AVG�OPS�E�Daniel Murphy2B15632225802183913610.487.619.3971.1064Josh TholeC19691522102172910610.400.420.319.8202Shawn Bowman3B9376113027202500.333.541.297.8740Totals--43169435812064288251720.428.521.343.9496 Player�W�L�ERA�G�GS�CG�SHO�SV�IP�H�R�ER�HR�HB�BB�SO�WHIP�HLD�GF�Jason Vargas102.109100025.72076105130.9750Bobby Parnell312.257700020.01555019201.2000Tobi Stoner203.6611000019.71788007151.2202Eddie Kunz2210.9314000214.02417173210142.4309Totals834.0841800279.37637364331621.35511 John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 25 2008 08:47 PM Nice article telling like it probably is here: ]Murphy and Co. get hacks in Arizona Plenty of players see autumnal time out west By Michael Salfino / SNY.tv Assessing a team's Arizona Fall League roster gives a good sense of the pizazz of their prospects. Last year, scouts couldn't be blamed for looking past the roster the Mets fielded and toward those soothing desert landscapes. But this year's group has improved along with the Mets Minor League fortunes, highlighted by second baseman in training Daniel Murphy. Here are some observations of Murphy and the rest of the best of the Mets 2008 AFL roster courtesy of a National League scout and our friends at Baseball America, editor John Manuel and AFL reporter Kary Booher. We already knew Murphy can hit. He finished at .397/.487/.619 in an AFL campaign cut short by a hamstring injury that should fully heal by Spring Training. That line is a fair translation of his big league numbers considering the level of competition in the AFL is about Double A-plus. I asked our experts what they thought about Keith Hernandez's anointing Murphy in September as the Mets future No. 3 hitter. "That's getting a little carried away," our National League scout says. "Murphy has good bat speed, is short to the ball and judges the strike zone, which should allow him to hit for average. But I'm not convinced he is much more than a 15-20 homer hitter. I don't think his bat is solid enough to play left field." Baseball America's Manuel agrees. "To me he's more Ryan Church, a corner outfielder who will hit but perhaps not for power and average as a three-hole hitter should. I see him as .300 with 15 homers one year, .270 with 20-25 homers the next." That's sweet for a second baseman, assuming the reviews of his AFL trial are good enough. "He is below average at second base with fringe-average range and stiff hands," says our NL scout. "Third base is his best position." Baseball America's Booher adds, "He showed some signs that he might be able to pull it off, but even his fall league manager said he was pretty raw over there. He just may not have enough range and agility." Scouts generally like Murphy and gave off the impression they were pulling for him to succeed at second. But the skills were lacking. Says Manuel, "The scouts and Minor League managers I've talked to A, believe he'll hit, B, love his grinder mentality and C, doubt his ability to play second effectively in the Majors." On to the rest of the Mets' AFL notables, led by left-handed hitting catcher Josh Thole, who turned 22 last month. Thole finished at .319/.400/.420 after hitting .300/.382/.427 at High A St. Lucie. Our NL scout thinks he has a relatively modest big-league future. "Thole is an extreme contact hitter whose bat plane isn't conducive to power. Defensively, he's average: solid receiving skills and average arm strength. I see him more as a platoon catcher given his left-handed bat." Manuel thinks that defensive assessment is a minority opinion, but agrees with the offensive assessment. "He's got a decent swing with a good approach but is just not a guy scouts think will drive the ball consistently for power. Defensively, he's a backup at best, fringe-average or below-average in most aspects." Jason Vargas was a surprising addition to the AFL roster, given his big-league experience. Says our scout, "In the outing I saw in the AFL, he was pretty solid in mixing his pitches and disrupting timing. I give him an excellent chance to resume his role as a backend starter." Bobby Parnell, who we saw in September as the Mets bullpen imploded, looked good, as well. But he not viewed as having a future in the rotation. He finished the AFL season allowing no homers in 20 innings with 20 Ks and 9 walks (2.25 ERA). "I like Parnell better as a reliever, where he could dominate with his fastball and slider; both of which have outstanding movement," says our scout. "He throws with a bit of effort and doesn't change speeds real well, so the move [to the pen] would probably boost his peripheral numbers." Adds Manuel, "Parnell reached 97 mph with his fastball in the past; one of his problems as a starter is the inconsistency of his velocity, from start to start and even within games, I've had scouts say he'd be 88-92 early and up to 95-96 late." Our scout clocked the 24-year-old righty's fastball this fall from 87 to 95 mph. Tobi Stoner is another righty who will turn 24 next week who had similar peripherals to Parnell: 0 homers in 19-plus innings with 7 walks and 15 Ks (3.66 ERA). "I would rate the fastball/cutter/curveball as average pitches, with the slider being slightly below," our scout says. "Stoner is athletic and has good arm action, but tends to rush through his delivery. He profiles as a long reliever for me." Manuel thinks Stoner has "back-of-the-rotation stuff at best, but has a chance." Eddie Kunz really struggled (three homers, 24 hits and 10 walks in 14-plus innings). "I've never been that high on Kunz," says our scout, who has specialized in rating amateur draft talent. "His velocity is solid and has a solid ground ball/fly ball ratio. But doesn't pitch aggressively and can be predictable late in the count." Manuel agrees, "He's always going to be a volatile guy in terms of his performance because he's not particularly athletic, loses his slot and gets hittable." Manuel spent a lot of time focusing on the Hawaii Winter League, so I asked him about Scott Shaw, a 22-year-old righty with size (6-foot-5, 230) and solid numbers last summer and in Hawaii (32-plus innings, 12 hits, 9 walks, 35 Ks). "Shaw pitches backward a lot -- 87-88 mph fastball, touching 90 with lots of changeups and curves. He had a huge year since signing, including throwing more than 100 innings pitched. I wouldn't read too much into the stats but he had a great debut and will more than likely be fast-tracked next year, probably to St. Lucie, maybe higher because he's shown a 160-inning workload is something he can now handle." Michael Salfino is a nationally syndicated columnist and a regular contributor to SNY.tv. Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 08:56 PM From experience, I assume "pitching backwards" means getting ahead with breaking pitches and then widening the target to get the batter to chase the fastball, rather than the more typical pattern of starting with the heat, but the first time on reading, without explanation, that Shaw "pitches backwards a lot," it can conjure some funny images. Frayed Knot Nov 25 2008 09:56 PM "But I'm not convinced he is much more than a 15-20 homer hitter. I don't think his bat is solid enough to play left field." This is the danger with going overboard with Murphy, that he's going to be a bit of a "tweener" -- not enough glove for 2nd base yet only a mediocre bat if he's in a corner spot. smg58 Nov 26 2008 04:45 AM If Murphy can post an OBP in the .400 area, he doesn't need to hit more than 15-20 homers to be a plus leftfielder. Frayed Knot Nov 26 2008 06:27 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 26 2008 06:42 AM Sure, but that's a level maybe 10 guys reach in a given year (8 MLers at .400+ in '08) Throwing him out there and expecting that is a pretty tall order - especially off <150 ML ABs and a ~.350 minor league OBA Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 06:28 AM Yeah, there's nothing mediocre about that. Tony Gwynn has carved a nice slot in the Hall of Fame for outfielders with less power than that. Tim Raines should be joining him. Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2008 07:05 AM I suspect that Davey Johnson wouldn't hesitate to pencil Murphy in at second base. He always valued the bat over the glove, and was pretty successful with that approach. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 07:15 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11j7l0q0]I suspect that Davey Johnson wouldn't hesitate to pencil Murphy in at second base. He always valued the bat over the glove, and was pretty successful with that approach.[/quote:11j7l0q0] That would explain "Mitchell SS" appearing in the boxscore from time to time. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 09:48 AM Mets land two guys on the Arizona Fall League�s 2008 Top Prospects Team Starting Pitchers Tommy Hanson (Braves --- maybe should have been the league MVP at 5-0, 0.63, 49 Ks and 7 BBs in 28.2 IP) Kevin Pucetas (Giants) Bobby Parnell (Mets) Relief Pitchers Bud Norris (Astros) Joh Bannister (Rangers) Catchers J.P Arencibia (Blue Jays) Matt Wieters (Orioles Firstbasemen Logan Morrison (Marlins) Rhyne Hughes (Rays) Secondbasemen Daniel Murphy (Mets) Kevin Frandsen (Giants) Thirdbasemen Wes Hodges (Indians) Brett Wallace (Cardinals) Shortstops Jason Donald (Phillies) Gordon Beckham (White Sox) Outfielders Eric Young, Jr. (Rockies) Sean Doolittle (Athletics) Chris Pettit (Angels) Austin Jackson (Yankees) Casper Wells (Tigers) Mike Baxter (Padres) Note the lack of Latin American-sounding names. I guess they tend put their offseason work in the Carribbean leagues.

[url:1pd9sh3i]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/opinion/11glanville.html[/url:1pd9sh3i] It may well be an "in his words" rather then him actually scribing it, but he's obviously a genuinely smart guy and it's a really nice insight. worth a read.

i don't like booing full stop. For a bush league slide or something maybe, but other then that I don't like it. I do however find the "lllllaaaaaarrrryyyy" or indeed what was said way back when I saw the Mets and the Padres "Vaaaaaauuuughhhhhhnnnnn" thing funny and not objectionable. it's also good when the opposition players give the little wave like Greg did in the game I saw.

I'm not enthused about Derek Lowe. Although yes Sal/Ira/whatever you now be called it would have been a good idea to have him instead of Tom Glavine whatever time you suggested it.

BP said this in their 2007 book (ie the one before 2007 season) "Give Castillo this much--he`s remarkably consistent, putting up EqAs between .266 and .282 in each of the last five seasons. That said, the .266 mark came last year, and plenty of trends are headed downwards. Castillo has clearly lost a step or two, ankle and knee problems having worn away at this speed. He`s no longer a huge threat on the basepaths, and while he`s a dependable gloveman, his range is slipping as well. PECOTA thinks there`s more good stuff to come with the bat, but, with players such as Castillo, the line between being an offensive positive and being something less than that is exceedingly thin." last years eqa .261

I know he's 'out of jail' but i think putting Burgos in there isn't really realistic. lets put in anyone over him for now.

put any meaning to someone waiting a few days to file for free agency being a nice bit of sentimental posturing by the player. I'm talking specifically about Pedro who the Mets 'sources' have been at pains to poo-poo retaining, yet clearly you have to have some kind of interest in at the right price. by not filing is Pedro sending the message "hey lets work out a deal" i don't know I just think he's got another good season left in him. I don't want to pay him $15 million, but i'd happily pay 7/8 on the hope of the good bounce making him worth double that.

you'd think that'd bump argenis off. tatis backing up 3rd and 1st marlon backing up 3rd, 1st and 2nd (in a stretch) and SS (while doing the splits) castillo and murphy basically doing 2nd.

1 year and below 2 million is fine for that. totally fine.

="Benjamin Grimm":1but6tbs]I'd be happy to see him get about 100 to 120 starts in left field in 2009 and to have them revisit the second base idea for 2010.[/quote:1but6tbs] if he makes 100-120 starts in LF next year he'll never play anywhere else. ="Benjamin Grimm":1but6tbs]True. Their last two high-visibility position changes didn't work out, so maybe they've become gun-shy. Although both of them are now several years in the past. (Reyes to second to make room for Matsui, and Piazza to first.)[/quote:1but6tbs] John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 29 2008 01:05 PM I think the "experts" see Parnell ultimately as a late-inning guy. I suppose this means they think his stuff is good but not good enough to get thru a lineup twice or thrice a night? Or maybe his full complement isn't there but his fastball/sinker are OK? There some kind of backhanded complement to it. smg58 Oct 29 2008 01:07 PM I think the worst-case scenario right now with Murphy is that he can play 2B well enough to fill in there as a reserve, which would enable the Mets to carry an extra outfield bat (i.e., a better hitter than a typical reserve infielder) on their bench. That's encouraging. The Mets have Santana tied up for a while, Maine under control for three more years, Pelfrey for at least four more years, Niese coming up in 09 or 10 and likely hanging around for a while, and presumably a free agent signing for multiple years. In that context, I would be neither surprised nor disappointed if they commit Parnell to the pen. Edgy DC Oct 29 2008 01:13 PM There's the possiblity that Murphy at second is trade bait also --- making his tenure there a chance for someone else to take. Benjamin Grimm Oct 29 2008 01:31 PM Oh, I hope not. I'm rooting for Murphy to be the Wigginton/Keppinger type guy that they actually keep. Edgy DC Oct 29 2008 01:54 PM No doubt. I'm just exploring their possible thinking. I think they should write him in at second, get a righthanded veteran backup ready and tell any grousing fans to suck it. metirish Oct 29 2008 01:58 PM Sherman from the Post had the Mets talking to the Royals about their" headache contract " Jose Guillen and the Royals taking Castillo in return. That was last week IIRC , Metsblog then had this from the Royals version of Marty Noble. �The whole scenario doesn�t sound right because a) Castillo went on the disabled list last July 3, and who wants a player with a strained hip flexor? and Guillen has a no-trade clause in his contract that includes the Mets. Guillen will earn $24 million for the next two seasons, while Castillo is due to make $18 million for the next three. Benjamin Grimm Oct 29 2008 02:01 PM Would you consider Castillo as the veteran backup? Historically he's hit well against lefties, although not in 2008. There's also Easley and Ramon Martinez. MFS62 Oct 29 2008 02:06 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3shu83wl]Would you consider Castillo as the veteran backup? [/quote:3shu83wl] I don't care what he is called in 2009, as long it isn't a Met. Later Edgy DC Oct 29 2008 02:09 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3pfmu0mf]Would you consider Castillo as the veteran backup? Historically he's hit well against lefties, although not in 2008. There's also Easley and Ramon Martinez.[/quote:3pfmu0mf] They're mostly fine for what they are, but I'd like to see some creativity. Castillo isn't really versatile, so he'd force Murphy to be. Vince Coleman Firecracker Oct 30 2008 06:47 AM ="metirish"]Sherman from the Post had the Mets talking to the Royals about their" headache contract " Jose Guillen and the Royals taking Castillo in return. Let's see, a second baseman with a .360 OBP for a corner outfielder with a .300 OBP. Sounds like a great fucking trade to me! Maybe we can throw in some prospects, too! What do you think, Jerry Manuel? ]"You don't see a lot of guys that have statistical numbers play well in these championship series" Absolutely! Let's get the worst "statistical numbers" players we can find! Our batters will make outs all the way to a championship! /getting worried about this offseason Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 07:23 AM I don't think that's particularly fair. Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 07:32 AM 1) Castillo's career OBP may be .367 but his OBP last season was .355. 2) Guillen's OBP last season was .300 but his career OBP is .327. 3) All that is apart from the tremendous differences in their slugging. 4) Castillo's OPS + last season was 77 and Guillen's 96. 5) The Mets could use a righthanded power hitter to give them some lineup balance. 6) Guillen's been healthy the lasst two years, and Castillo hasn't. That said, Guillen gives me pause. He's been a jerk and roid user. The Manuel quote is out of context. He received an unfair beatdown for it at FireJoeMorgan.com, of the kind usually reserved for Ozzie Guillen. metirish Oct 30 2008 02:24 PM From Ken Davidoff , ] Quick thoughts on Yankees and Mets prospects, from a scout who recently spent time in the Arizona Fall League: For the Yankees pitcher Phil Hughes: "He scuffled when I saw him." First baseman Juan Miranda: "He's got a little power. He's no Gold Glove, though, despite what the Yankees say about him." Second baseman Kevin Russo: "He played hard and saw the ball well." Centerfielder Austin Jackson: "He threw well. He's a pretty good athlete." Mets reliever Eddie Kunz: "He's got some ceiling." Daniel Murphy: "Not too pretty at second base." Benjamin Grimm Oct 30 2008 02:30 PM In the last few years, "scuffled" has become a euphemism for "struggled." It doesn't sound as bad, but it means the same thing. Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 02:49 PM Sign me up and I promise you I'll play hard and see the ball well. Nymr83 Oct 30 2008 03:33 PM I'd make the trade: 1. Guillen is a better overall hitter than Castillo 2. Guillen is healthier than Castillo 3. They both have bad contracts, but Guillen's is shorter in duration 4, Guillen plays a position at which the Mets are thinner right now Edgy DC Nov 11 2008 02:57 PM Our men are still hitting, though there's been some errors. PlayerPOSGABRH2B3BHRRBITBBBSOSBCSOBPSLGAVGOPSEDaniel Murphy2B15632225802183913610.487.619.3971.1064Josh TholeC1451141910214267400.429.510.373.9381Shawn Bowman3B9376113027202500.333.541.297.8740 Gotta love them walk rates. Edgy DC Nov 13 2008 08:05 AM I think we may need to formulate a rescue plan for Edddie Kunz. The other pitchers are all holding their own in what appears to be a hitters' league. Player�W�L�ERA�G�GS�CG�SHO�SV�IP�H�R�ER�HR�HB�BB�SO�WHIP�HLD�GF�Jason Vargas102.617100020.21566104110.9230Bobby Parnell312.816600016.01455018171.3800Tobi Stoner202.819000016.01355006121.1901Eddie Kunz1210.9512000212.1211515229112.4308 Benjamin Grimm Nov 13 2008 08:11 AM Prediction: The Mets don't open the 2009 season with Eddie Kunz as their closer. (I'm really going out on a limb on that one.) Edgy DC Nov 13 2008 08:15 AM I think congress needs to bail his ass out. smg58 Nov 13 2008 08:27 AM Nobody pitches more than a few innings per game in Arizona, I've noticed. Vargas appears to be thriving in a mostly relief role. But is it enough to justify tendering him a major-league contract? Stoner appears to be handling an inning or two of relief work as well. That might get him to the bigs sooner. I don't like the walks for Parnell. He'll need to get his control in order if he wants to contribute in Flushing next year. Can we all agree that Eddie Kunz is not next year's closer? John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 13 2008 08:36 AM ="smg58"] Vargas appears to be thriving in a mostly relief role. But is it enough to justify tendering him a major-league contract? Yes. ]Stoner appears to be handling an inning or two of relief work as well. That might get him to the bigs sooner. Good. I looked up "Tobi Stoner" on Facebook and 3 chicks appeared. ]I don't like the walks for Parnell. He'll need to get his control in order if he wants to contribute in Flushing next year. Not a good rate, 1 every 2 innings. But he's not gonna get more than 2 inning stints if he winds up in the pen! Problem solved! OK, not really, but I like the lack of HRs. ]Can we all agree that Eddie Kunz is not next year's closer? His 600-some Facebook friends will be disappointed. Farmer Ted Nov 13 2008 09:03 AM Daniel Murphy, professional hitter. 2009 ROY. Me. Limb. On it. Edgy DC Nov 13 2008 09:12 AM It looks like he invalidated himself by two at-bats this year. duan Nov 13 2008 09:35 AM ="Edgy DC":1aelqa4m]It looks like he invalidated himself by two at-bats this year.[/quote:1aelqa4m] well considering they didn't notice the edinson volquez had pitched y'know 80 innings in two seasons before last I wouldn't think they'll hold that against Murphy. metirish Nov 20 2008 09:01 AM The Mets' Daniel Murphy was batting .397 (25-for-63) with eight doubles, two home runs and 18 RBIs in 15 games in the Arizona Fall League. (Newsday / David L. Pokress) ] The Mets' second-base experiment with Daniel Murphy temporarily has been shelved now that he is scheduled to have an MRI on his right knee today at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Murphy, 23, left the Arizona Fall League after complaining of "discomfort" in the knee during batting practice before a game on Nov. 11. The Mets have refused to categorize the injury as either a sprain or strain until the results of the MRI and it is uncertain whether he will return to finish the AFL season. Murphy was batting .397 (25-for-63) with eight doubles, two home runs and 18 RBIs in 15 games for the Peoria Saguaros. General manager Omar Minaya insists that Murphy was not being groomed as a potential second baseman for next season despite his duties with Peoria. But with the Mets in the market for an everyday leftfielder -- perhaps free agent Raul Iba�ez -- the more positions Murphy can play, the better chance he has of contributing at the major-league level. It is highly unlikely that the Mets would try to get by with another platoon of Murphy and Fernando Tatis in leftfield, despite its success last season. Murphy, a surprise call-up in early August, batted .313 (41-for-131) with nine doubles, two home runs and 17 RBIs in 49 games for the Mets. He also hit .375 (12-for-32) with runners in scoring position and batted .462 as a pinch hitter with one homer, five RBIs and six walks. soupcan Nov 20 2008 10:14 AM New York Post is a bit more dramatic... ]MURPHY'S KNEE WORRIES METS By BART HUBBUCH November 20, 2008 -- This doesn't sound good. Mets left fielder and rising star Daniel Murphy was flown back to New York from the Arizona Fall League last night for an MRI exam this morning on his ailing right knee. Murphy felt discomfort in the knee during pregame batting practice Nov. 11 and hasn't played in the AFL since. Murphy, by far the biggest (and most pleasant) surprise for the Mets this past season, already has missed time in Arizona this fall due to a lacerated forearm suffered during the league's "Rising Stars" game last month. Murphy, who is slated to platoon in left with Fernando Tatis next season, has been tearing up the AFL when healthy. Murphy is hitting .397 with two homers and 18 RBIs in 15 games. The Mets, meanwhile, remain in a holding pattern in their pursuit of a new closer because they are awaiting the medical records of Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes. The Mets also might have to find a new No. 1 target for their rotation after 35-year-old righty Derek Lowe reportedly opened the free-agent bidding yesterday asking for a whopping $16 million per season. bhubbuch@nypost.com Frayed Knot Nov 20 2008 10:46 AM Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem themetfairy Nov 20 2008 10:57 AM ="Frayed Knot":2tmg2xab]Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem[/quote:2tmg2xab] Well, they are connected.... metirish Nov 20 2008 08:01 PM ="Frayed Knot"]Meanwhile, the Daily News was calling it a hamstring problem Update from Lennon ] Update on Murphy It appears that what the Mets intially believed was a knee issue for Murphy is actually a hamstring strain. Good thing they got him to an MRI machine. Here's the full update from the team below: The Mets Daniel Murphy underwent an MRI this morning at New York�s Hospital for Special Surgery and the test revealed that he has a Grade 2 Strain of the right hamstring. Murphy felt discomfort in the leg in pre-game batting practice of his November 11th Arizona Fall League game. He will skip winter league ball in Puerto Rico so that he can be ready for the opening of Spring Training this February in Port St. Lucie, Fla. smg58 Nov 21 2008 06:30 AM Murph doesn't need to prove anything in winter ball at this point anyway. If you're going to have an injury that sidelines you for a month, November is a good time to have it. soupcan Nov 21 2008 07:22 AM Paging Mackey Shilstone... Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 08:26 AM I never posted the final numbers. Eddie Kunz never did right his ship --- at all --- but there were a lot of positives to walk away with, even as Bowman and Thole regressed toward the mean. If Thole ever gets some sextra base power, he'll be a prospect. You couldn't have reasonably asked for more out of Bobby Parnell. In fact, considering his college profile and his draft slot, you've already gotten more out of Bobby Parnell than you ever deserved. Congratulations to the Mets on that inspired pick. League leaders: Moirphy was thoid in the league in OBP, fifth in average, twelfth in slugging, good for the tenth-best OPS before he checked out. Parnell was third in wins, sixth in ERA, ninth in WHIP. Vargas was fourth in ERA, fourth in WHIP. He also led the league in holds with five. Stoner was tenth in WHIP. Kunz was tied for first in games, and fifth in games finished, and probably tied for first in games fucked up. But he was also tied for fourth in saves with two. Let's just hope Dropkick is healthy in spring. Player�POS�G�AB�R�H�2B�3B�HR�RBI�TB�BB�SO�SB�CS�OBP�SLG�AVG�OPS�E�Daniel Murphy2B15632225802183913610.487.619.3971.1064Josh TholeC19691522102172910610.400.420.319.8202Shawn Bowman3B9376113027202500.333.541.297.8740Totals--43169435812064288251720.428.521.343.9496 Player�W�L�ERA�G�GS�CG�SHO�SV�IP�H�R�ER�HR�HB�BB�SO�WHIP�HLD�GF�Jason Vargas102.109100025.72076105130.9750Bobby Parnell312.257700020.01555019201.2000Tobi Stoner203.6611000019.71788007151.2202Eddie Kunz2210.9314000214.02417173210142.4309Totals834.0841800279.37637364331621.35511 John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 25 2008 08:47 PM Nice article telling like it probably is here: ]Murphy and Co. get hacks in Arizona Plenty of players see autumnal time out west By Michael Salfino / SNY.tv Assessing a team's Arizona Fall League roster gives a good sense of the pizazz of their prospects. Last year, scouts couldn't be blamed for looking past the roster the Mets fielded and toward those soothing desert landscapes. But this year's group has improved along with the Mets Minor League fortunes, highlighted by second baseman in training Daniel Murphy. Here are some observations of Murphy and the rest of the best of the Mets 2008 AFL roster courtesy of a National League scout and our friends at Baseball America, editor John Manuel and AFL reporter Kary Booher. We already knew Murphy can hit. He finished at .397/.487/.619 in an AFL campaign cut short by a hamstring injury that should fully heal by Spring Training. That line is a fair translation of his big league numbers considering the level of competition in the AFL is about Double A-plus. I asked our experts what they thought about Keith Hernandez's anointing Murphy in September as the Mets future No. 3 hitter. "That's getting a little carried away," our National League scout says. "Murphy has good bat speed, is short to the ball and judges the strike zone, which should allow him to hit for average. But I'm not convinced he is much more than a 15-20 homer hitter. I don't think his bat is solid enough to play left field." Baseball America's Manuel agrees. "To me he's more Ryan Church, a corner outfielder who will hit but perhaps not for power and average as a three-hole hitter should. I see him as .300 with 15 homers one year, .270 with 20-25 homers the next." That's sweet for a second baseman, assuming the reviews of his AFL trial are good enough. "He is below average at second base with fringe-average range and stiff hands," says our NL scout. "Third base is his best position." Baseball America's Booher adds, "He showed some signs that he might be able to pull it off, but even his fall league manager said he was pretty raw over there. He just may not have enough range and agility." Scouts generally like Murphy and gave off the impression they were pulling for him to succeed at second. But the skills were lacking. Says Manuel, "The scouts and Minor League managers I've talked to A, believe he'll hit, B, love his grinder mentality and C, doubt his ability to play second effectively in the Majors." On to the rest of the Mets' AFL notables, led by left-handed hitting catcher Josh Thole, who turned 22 last month. Thole finished at .319/.400/.420 after hitting .300/.382/.427 at High A St. Lucie. Our NL scout thinks he has a relatively modest big-league future. "Thole is an extreme contact hitter whose bat plane isn't conducive to power. Defensively, he's average: solid receiving skills and average arm strength. I see him more as a platoon catcher given his left-handed bat." Manuel thinks that defensive assessment is a minority opinion, but agrees with the offensive assessment. "He's got a decent swing with a good approach but is just not a guy scouts think will drive the ball consistently for power. Defensively, he's a backup at best, fringe-average or below-average in most aspects." Jason Vargas was a surprising addition to the AFL roster, given his big-league experience. Says our scout, "In the outing I saw in the AFL, he was pretty solid in mixing his pitches and disrupting timing. I give him an excellent chance to resume his role as a backend starter." Bobby Parnell, who we saw in September as the Mets bullpen imploded, looked good, as well. But he not viewed as having a future in the rotation. He finished the AFL season allowing no homers in 20 innings with 20 Ks and 9 walks (2.25 ERA). "I like Parnell better as a reliever, where he could dominate with his fastball and slider; both of which have outstanding movement," says our scout. "He throws with a bit of effort and doesn't change speeds real well, so the move [to the pen] would probably boost his peripheral numbers." Adds Manuel, "Parnell reached 97 mph with his fastball in the past; one of his problems as a starter is the inconsistency of his velocity, from start to start and even within games, I've had scouts say he'd be 88-92 early and up to 95-96 late." Our scout clocked the 24-year-old righty's fastball this fall from 87 to 95 mph. Tobi Stoner is another righty who will turn 24 next week who had similar peripherals to Parnell: 0 homers in 19-plus innings with 7 walks and 15 Ks (3.66 ERA). "I would rate the fastball/cutter/curveball as average pitches, with the slider being slightly below," our scout says. "Stoner is athletic and has good arm action, but tends to rush through his delivery. He profiles as a long reliever for me." Manuel thinks Stoner has "back-of-the-rotation stuff at best, but has a chance." Eddie Kunz really struggled (three homers, 24 hits and 10 walks in 14-plus innings). "I've never been that high on Kunz," says our scout, who has specialized in rating amateur draft talent. "His velocity is solid and has a solid ground ball/fly ball ratio. But doesn't pitch aggressively and can be predictable late in the count." Manuel agrees, "He's always going to be a volatile guy in terms of his performance because he's not particularly athletic, loses his slot and gets hittable." Manuel spent a lot of time focusing on the Hawaii Winter League, so I asked him about Scott Shaw, a 22-year-old righty with size (6-foot-5, 230) and solid numbers last summer and in Hawaii (32-plus innings, 12 hits, 9 walks, 35 Ks). "Shaw pitches backward a lot -- 87-88 mph fastball, touching 90 with lots of changeups and curves. He had a huge year since signing, including throwing more than 100 innings pitched. I wouldn't read too much into the stats but he had a great debut and will more than likely be fast-tracked next year, probably to St. Lucie, maybe higher because he's shown a 160-inning workload is something he can now handle." Michael Salfino is a nationally syndicated columnist and a regular contributor to SNY.tv. Edgy DC Nov 25 2008 08:56 PM From experience, I assume "pitching backwards" means getting ahead with breaking pitches and then widening the target to get the batter to chase the fastball, rather than the more typical pattern of starting with the heat, but the first time on reading, without explanation, that Shaw "pitches backwards a lot," it can conjure some funny images. Frayed Knot Nov 25 2008 09:56 PM "But I'm not convinced he is much more than a 15-20 homer hitter. I don't think his bat is solid enough to play left field." This is the danger with going overboard with Murphy, that he's going to be a bit of a "tweener" -- not enough glove for 2nd base yet only a mediocre bat if he's in a corner spot. smg58 Nov 26 2008 04:45 AM If Murphy can post an OBP in the .400 area, he doesn't need to hit more than 15-20 homers to be a plus leftfielder. Frayed Knot Nov 26 2008 06:27 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 26 2008 06:42 AM Sure, but that's a level maybe 10 guys reach in a given year (8 MLers at .400+ in '08) Throwing him out there and expecting that is a pretty tall order - especially off <150 ML ABs and a ~.350 minor league OBA Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 06:28 AM Yeah, there's nothing mediocre about that. Tony Gwynn has carved a nice slot in the Hall of Fame for outfielders with less power than that. Tim Raines should be joining him. Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2008 07:05 AM I suspect that Davey Johnson wouldn't hesitate to pencil Murphy in at second base. He always valued the bat over the glove, and was pretty successful with that approach. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 07:15 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11j7l0q0]I suspect that Davey Johnson wouldn't hesitate to pencil Murphy in at second base. He always valued the bat over the glove, and was pretty successful with that approach.[/quote:11j7l0q0] That would explain "Mitchell SS" appearing in the boxscore from time to time. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 09:48 AM Mets land two guys on the Arizona Fall League�s 2008 Top Prospects Team Starting Pitchers Tommy Hanson (Braves --- maybe should have been the league MVP at 5-0, 0.63, 49 Ks and 7 BBs in 28.2 IP) Kevin Pucetas (Giants) Bobby Parnell (Mets) Relief Pitchers Bud Norris (Astros) Joh Bannister (Rangers) Catchers J.P Arencibia (Blue Jays) Matt Wieters (Orioles Firstbasemen Logan Morrison (Marlins) Rhyne Hughes (Rays) Secondbasemen Daniel Murphy (Mets) Kevin Frandsen (Giants) Thirdbasemen Wes Hodges (Indians) Brett Wallace (Cardinals) Shortstops Jason Donald (Phillies) Gordon Beckham (White Sox) Outfielders Eric Young, Jr. (Rockies) Sean Doolittle (Athletics) Chris Pettit (Angels) Austin Jackson (Yankees) Casper Wells (Tigers) Mike Baxter (Padres) Note the lack of Latin American-sounding names. I guess they tend put their offseason work in the Carribbean leagues.