TransMonk

I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with.

Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets.

="Centerfield":3iehvx6z]This team needs to come out next year showing some sack with a "Fuck the World" attitude.[/quote:3iehvx6z] Yup! (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Edgy DC Dec 23 2008 10:00 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 23 2008 10:14 AM Bobby says Marianito hates Frankie. Why? ANTICS! Mets' image won't be helped by K-Rod By Bob Klapisch Special to ESPN.com In the days before the All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium, Mariano Rivera asked Yankees clubhouse employees for a small but important favor: keep Francisco Rodriguez's temporary locker as far away from his as possible. It was a stunning request from the mild-mannered Yankee, but given how different the two closers are, perhaps not so surprising. By signing with the Mets, K-Rod will bring to Citi Field all the qualities that Rivera finds distasteful, not the least of which are Rodriguez's self-congratulations after each of his saves. If Rivera took exception to K-Rod's two-handed point to the skies, imagine how the rest of the National League will feel about it in 2009. The Mets already have an image problem with the Phillies, and their new bullpen savior isn't likely to improve matters. In fact, K-Rod has been a Met for a little more than a week, and is already immersed in the division's war of words. He declared the Mets, not the Phillies, were the team to beat. The world champs have other ideas: Cole Hamels made the back pages of the New York tabloids recently after calling the Mets "choke artists" on a local radio show. Of course, K-Rod was lured to Flushing to heal that very wound. The Mets' bullpen blew 29 saves last season, which is why K-Rod's lack of restraint made no difference to Omar Minaya during negotiations with the free agent. The Mets' general manager reckons that, if Rodriguez can secure the ninth inning, he's free to act as if he's brought down the Berlin Wall. The Mets certainly are beyond caring what the National League -- and, specifically, the Phillies -- think of them. And Rodriguez isn't about to temper his behavior now that he believes he's been validated by a three-year, $37 million contract. "Of course, I'm never going to change the way I do my job. Never going to change," Rodriguez told reporters. "There might be a little more adrenaline � the New York fans, they make a lot of noise. I try to rob that energy from the crowd. For me, all the noise they're going to make excites me more." K-Rod's celebrating profile will be layered atop Jose Reyes' customized high-fiving after scoring an important run in a big game -- outside the dugout. Such gloating, which has been part of the Mets' legacy since the '80s, has been steadily irritating opponents for the past four years. But unlike the 1986 club, as arrogant as it was successful, the latter-day Mets have collapsed in the past two Septembers -- choked, just as Hamels says. They've yet to win a pennant since the miniature renaissance began in 2006, despite an influx of marquee talent and the ballooning of the payroll over $130 million. That's the fine line Jerry Manuel must navigate in his first full season as the Mets' manager: He wants his players to emote, but without looking foolish. Without citing Reyes in particular, Manuel copped to the Mets' immaturity. Indeed, one baseball executive said, "If you don't think [the celebrating] has any consequence, then why does a team like the Marlins always love to stick it to the Mets?" The implied answer, of course, is that the Marlins -- who, despite being out of the playoff race, denied the Mets a playoff berth in the final weekends of the 2007 and 2008 seasons -- were paying the Mets back for their showboating sins. "I think there were times when we were out of rhythm with what was going on," Manuel admitted, before adding, "if you can back it up, that's fine with me. And you have to do it in a way that's somewhat respectful to the game." Manuel will certainly clamp down on open-air celebrating in a one-sided blowout. No argument there. But it's those one-run games with the Phillies that will test the manager's authority. What happens, say, the first time K-Rod strikes out Ryan Howard to nail down a Mets victory at Citizens Bank Park? You don't have to ask -- "Of course, I'm never going to change the way I do my job. Never going to change." -- Francisco RodriguezRodriguez will have his guns (OK, index fingers) blazing toward the heavens. It'll certainly light the fuse, which, sooner or later in the summer, figures to ignite a fire. Hamels' remark was one of the topics of conversation during the Mets' annual Christmas party for children Wednesday. "Words aren't going to do anything in December," pitcher Mike Pelfrey told The New York Times. "I could not care less about what Cole Hamels said or anybody else on that team said. We've gotten a lot better this offseason, and we need to continue to make some more moves." For now, the Mets are focusing on finding at least two more starting pitchers; they're hopeful of re-signing free agent Oliver Perez, and they have an eye on Randy Wolf. And it's not impossible for Pedro Martinez to return on a one-year contract. But whoever takes the mound for the Mets will eventually hand the ball to J.J. Putz in the eighth inning, followed by K-Rod in the ninth. Love him or loathe him, Rodriguez has made this much clear: He refuses to be ignored. The world (and the Phillies) will be watching. Bob Klapisch is a sports columnist for The Record (N.J.) and a regular contributor to ESPN.com. metirish Dec 23 2008 10:13 AM Happy fuckin Christmas to you too Bob.. ] If Rivera took exception to K-Rod's two-handed point to the skies, imagine how the rest of the National League will feel about it in 2009. The Mets already have an image problem with the Phillies, Rivera of course is not in the NL... themetfairy Dec 23 2008 10:27 AM Barf seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 10:49 AM It's 1986, baby. FIGHT! Centerfield Dec 23 2008 10:55 AM What seawolf said. G-Fafif Dec 23 2008 12:33 PM No game can be said to be truly official unless it is started by Mariano Rivera and the applause washes over him like soft rain. metsguyinmichigan Dec 23 2008 12:40 PM The Klap, ALWAYS looking for something bad to write about the Mets. And with a little Yankee love, thrown in like a cherry on top. Note, again, the unnamed source to throw a pretty mild brick. Klap, you can't get someone to go on the record saying the Marlins got all bent out of shape and delighted in beating the Mets? Maybe talk to, I don't know, one of the Marlins, maybe? They're a pretty chatty bunch. Made no bones about the joy they took and why. Lazy, lazy, lazy. Then again, we have no proof the unanmed person actually exists, and boy, that quote fits perfectly with very point Klapisch was trying to make. Funny how that happens. And, if I remember correctly, Reyes toned down his schtick last year, and people told him to loosen up and have fun again. As for the scenario he describes in the story, with Met-Rod striking out Ryan Howard in a big at-bat, if he doesn't show some kind of emotion in that situation, he's a freaking cyborg ... like Rivera. If I'm paying $47 for a seat in the boonies and paying $5 for a Diet Coke, I kinda like seeing that the guys on the field are a little excited. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 01:13 PM Jeez, you'd think Rivera farts cinnamon and shits gold coins. "Don't put his locker near mine, he might contaminate it!" Douche. And of course ol' stupid Mets-hating MFY-loving Bob Klapisch is there to wear Mo's jock like a surgical mask. Fuck these people. This palaver is activating my brain vein. G-Fafif Dec 23 2008 01:25 PM ="Fman99":2j726juf]Jeez, you'd think Rivera farts cinnamon and shits gold coins.[/quote:2j726juf] Actually, they run an infomercial on just such a contraption on YES. Benjamin Grimm Dec 23 2008 01:29 PM I bet everyone else in the Yankee bullpen finds themselves strangely craving Cin-A-Bon whenever they sit next to Rivera.

="Benjamin Grimm":3rsmur6s]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:3rsmur6s] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:05 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Apparently his contract contains an option for 2010 at over $9 million. $8.6 Million club option. The buyout is $1 Million. ]The Mets probably won't want to pay that much for a setup guy. Probably not, but I think they wait and see how 2009 goes first. Centerfield Dec 11 2008 11:08 AM ="TransMonk":1ajjkucg]="Benjamin Grimm":1ajjkucg]Putz is likely a one-year Met.[/quote:1ajjkucg] Agreed, although factoring the money going to Wagner in 2009, the 8th and 9th innings will still be cheaper for them in 2010 if they kept Putz. Wagner + KRod + Putz = $24 million in 2009. Prolly more than the Marlins payroll will be.[/quote:1ajjkucg] The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place. I wish they could find some use for him in 2009 and save money somewhere else. Can he make copies? File papers? Maybe he could work a ticket booth or something. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 11:17 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2008 11:51 AM ="Centerfield":7x6t2mcj]The Wagner money really gets under my skin. I really wonder if they had to go four years to get him in the first place.[/quote:7x6t2mcj] It's a little late to get too animated about that, but the Wagner deal came shortly after the O's gobbled up B.J. Ryan for five years and $47 million. It's not a cheap game to play. Just be happy that the money dropped on him in this fourth year didn't prevent the Mets from reloading with Rodriguez and Putz. Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2008 11:19 AM Well, obviously they'll see how 2009 goes first. As for Wagner, there was a report out the other day that his recovery is going well and he may actually be able to pitch in September of 2009. Vic Sage Dec 11 2008 11:42 AM I'm sure he'll want to, to prove he can and set the stage for a new contract ... from somebody. However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done. Gwreck Dec 11 2008 11:48 AM ="Vic Sage":3roqbbwa]However, if the mets actually need him to pitch in September, that may be a bad sign as to how the new pen had done.[/quote:3roqbbwa] You wouldn't want Wagner as your situational lefty pitcher instead of Feliciano or Schoeneweis? 86-Dreamer Dec 11 2008 03:19 PM I like the trade. But I am a bit scared by the fact that Putz actually had worse WHIP in 2008 (1.597) than the man he is replacing (1.592). But then I look at his 2006 & 2007 seasons and get excited again. Lets hope he is healthy. metsmarathon Dec 11 2008 04:10 PM of course, how was heilman's '06 and '07? i'm just sayin... but overall i like the trade. and i'm surprised we don't yet have a poll asking me that question. metirish Dec 11 2008 06:27 PM ] "It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz told the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen." Willets Point Dec 11 2008 06:58 PM Putz is perhaps the first Mets relief pitcher to come with a built-in derogatory nickname for when he blows a save. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:17 PM Ah, but you're too young to recall Alain LeDouche. Those were ze days, mon ami. metirish Dec 14 2008 11:25 AM ] Mets now have terrific twosome in 'pen By Jayson Stark ESPN.com LAS VEGAS -- The New York Mets of 2008 didn't just have a closer problem. They had a bullpen problem. The Mets of 2008 didn't just have a ninth-inning problem. They had a how-the-heck-do-we-get-to-the-ninth-inning problem. Well, not anymore. Now, after a stunning 12-player, three-team, winter meetings megadeal Wednesday night, the Mets have transformed their bullpen and transformed themselves. J.J. Putz and Francisco Rodriguez aren't merely an upgrade on Luis Ayala and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman/Scott Schoeneweis/insert your favorite other Mets setup villain here. J.J. Putz and K-Rod are an upgrade on everybody's eighth-and-ninth-inning bullpen-assassin combo. Who beats that tag team? "Nobody," said one longtime talent evaluator Wednesday night. "To me, they're the best. And they're not just a great duo. They're a strikeout duo, too. There won't be many balls in play when those two guys are out there. As big as strikeouts are in the ninth inning, sometimes they're even bigger in the eighth." True facts: K-Rod averaged 10.14 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Putz, even in a down year, averaged 10.88 whiffs per nine innings. And that was in the American League, where the lineups run nine deep. Only two National League teams had a closer-setup combo in which each pitcher racked up that high a punch-out rate in 2008 -- the Cubs (Kerry Wood/Carlos Marmol) and the Dodgers (Takashi Saito/Jonathan Broxton/Hong-Chih Kuo). Not coincidentally, those staffs ranked third and first, respectively, in the league in bullpen ERA. But now Wood is gone in Chicago. Saito is hurt in L.A. And it's the Mets who have assumed the throne. We asked around Wednesday night in a lobby packed with baseball people. Nobody could come up with an eighth-inning/ninth-inning combo as formidable as the Mets' new twosome. The reason is simple. As long as these two are healthy, there isn't a better tandem. "They can play a 21-out game now," the same evaluator said of the Mets. "I give them a lot of credit. They just made a $13 million investment [in K-Rod], and now they've bolstered it with a character guy whose character is so good, he'll be willing to pitch the eighth inning." Putz, of course, will have to be healthier than he was in 2008, when his 3.88 ERA was nearly triple his 1.38 mark in '07. But if he is, he changes the Mets' whole persona. Just consider the bullpen disaster that did in this team this season: The Mets were 13th in the league in ERA from the seventh inning on and 13th in bullpen ERA overall. They blew 29 saves -- second most in the National League, behind St. Louis. They gave up 61 home runs from the seventh inning on, tied with the Giants for the most in the league. And those aren't even the most devastating numbers that defined the Mets' season. Consider these numbers: If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies. But the rules are the rules. And the rules say they had to play all nine. And it was those final innings that crushed the Mets. The Phillies lost no games they led after eight innings. The Mets lost seven of them -- and lost 13 games they led after seven innings. That's how seasons slip away. That's how one fatal flaw can undermine everyone and everything. That was the story of the 2008 Mets. So one miraculous trade later, this doesn't just look like a whole new bullpen. It looks like a whole new team. Rockin' Doc Dec 14 2008 11:38 AM "If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies." Wow, those are pretty telling stats. I knew the bullpen was costly last season, but those facts really point out just how costly the bullpen actually was. Valadius Dec 14 2008 02:28 PM I warned about the bullpen all last offseason. I figured it would happen again. Frayed Knot Dec 14 2008 02:37 PM ="Rockin' Doc":2m19qgyh]"If all games had ended after six innings this season, the Mets would have finished the year 11 games ahead of the Phillies (aka, the team that won the World Series). If all games had ended after seven innings, the Mets would have finished six games ahead of the Phillies. And if all games had even been just eight innings long instead of nine, the Mets would have finished five games ahead of the Phillies."[/quote:2m19qgyh] The pen was obviously the biggest culprit in those above scenarios although the offense's habit of scoring more early than late contributed as well. The net effect was to make the pen look even worse than it really was by removing any margin of error and turning every run given up into a disaster. metirish Dec 14 2008 02:51 PM Yet Miniya thinks the offense was fine last season From the Hot Stove December 11th ] Minaya on getting more offense. Quote: "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 05:13 PM In general, it was fine. It was just disproportionately better in the front end of games, contributing to some of those numbers. Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:27 PM I remeber several years ago the Mets were dumoing on the Rockies Mike DeJean and McCarver said "well this inning is in De Jean" TransMonk Dec 18 2008 12:40 PM I have to say, the more I hear from J.J., the more I like him. And, I was pretty impressed to begin with. Frayed Knot Dec 19 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 19 2008 12:30 PM How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' metirish Dec 19 2008 12:24 PM Putz said yesterday that he might ask Hojo for #20. metirish Dec 19 2008 12:59 PM ="Frayed Knot"]How do you solve a problem like Putz? John Branch (never heard of him) at the NYTimes looks into the origin, Hungarian; proper pronunciation, 'Puts'; and the potential pitfalls for headline writers concerning the new set-up man. The Mets solved the problem of his introduction by boldly printing on the scoreboard: 'Mets Welcome J.J.' Interesting that Bill Sweeney the headline writer over at the Snooze is not looking at Putz as a headline opportunity. metsguyinmichigan Dec 19 2008 01:17 PM They're probably not going to sell too many t-shirts with "Putz" on the back. And I don't like the wide soul patch. But I have to tell you, dude is saying all the right things. This might up being Omar's best move of the off-season. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 01:31 PM What's encouraging is to hear some good things about Sean Green who came along with Putzy in the deal. Putz in the Snooze today called Green "a machine" and sincerely sounded like a strong endorsement, and Keith Law of ESPN called him the 4th most important acquisition of the winter in all of bb (behind CC, K-Rod and JJ, saying he'd be to the Mets as valuable as Bradford in 06. Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2008 02:06 PM That would be good if Sean Green ends up being a solid bullpenner. I am glad the Mets got Putz, but I do regret losing Joe Smith for one year of Putz. So I do hope Green can contribute in 2010 and beyond. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 02:38 PM That 70/30 talk seemed kind of unecessary. Like a bone that didn't need to be thrown Putz's way. But now it's out there and expectations are kind of attached to it. Hope it doesn't bite Jerry's arse down the road. smg58 Dec 19 2008 03:02 PM If the Mets get 100 save opportunities, a 70/30 split will work out to everybody's satisfaction. Green was terrific for the first four months last year, but 58 innings in four months was more than he could handle and he imploded in August and September. If his arm has recovered and they pace him for 65 or so innings, he could have a really good year. A Boy Named Seo Dec 19 2008 03:33 PM If we get 100 save opps, we're winning like 115 games anyway, so none of this will matter.

I've always thought it was like PUTS, as in "It puts the lotion in the basket."

Outside Feliciano and Reyes, he had been the longest tenured Met, IIRC. I always wanted him to be successful...even if I did end up swearing at him a lot.

Best defensive OF replacement...ever!

Went searching for some Mariner boards to gauge their reaction. Most boards don't have any posts since October...but the few I did find had posters that thought any trade where you were getting 7 players couldn't be all that bad. More than a few posts talked about Putz not being the same last year while injured, but they all seemed to agree that if September of 2008 where any indication of his future health that he would be pretty awesome. More than one poster on separate boards said that if healthy, Putz is better than Rodriguez. They both enter to Thunderstruck.

Jeremy Reed and Sean Green now rumored to come along with Putz to the Mets while Smith would go to Cleveland. http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/reedje03.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/greense01.shtml

SNY Blog has Joe Smith also rumored to be involved in the deal. Losing Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Smith would be a bit much for a setup guy.

="attgig":1mcf7f8o] baseball is the only sport that this is discouraged, and I find that somewhat elitist. heck, even tiger shows emotion on a golf course, and McEnroe introduced it in tennis a LONG time ago. if you're not playing with emotion, then you're not playing with your all. some people happen to hide their emotions, and others wear their emotions on their sleeve. it's not a question of maturity or sportsmanship, but rather, just their personality.[/quote:1mcf7f8o] I tend to agree with this post. The fact that it seems to piss off the Phillies fanbase and announcers most makes me even more pro-antics. Now if we could just get one of our guys to emphatically say that we're the team to beat this spring... ON EDIT: Ugh, I'm Lastings Milledge. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 03:53 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]I disagree the athletes should necessarily be striving to entertain me: The athletes -- understanding going in they're all self-absorbed fucks -- should strive to excel so that the game entertains me. That can easily be achieved within the admittedly subjective and sometimes murky framework of sportsmanship. But, setting aside behavior, their performance is part of the entertainment. By performing well, they entertain their fans, who want to see their team win. And, for people who enjoy watching a stoic ballplayer briskly and unemotionally trot around the bags after a home run, that's their entertainment preference. A player who behaves that way is making a decision, whether he realizes it or not, to entertain his audience with his stoicism. You enjoy watching players who, in addition to performing, behave they way you want them to behave. That's your preferred entertainment. I also enjoy watching those players, in addition to enjoying watching Lastings Milledge give out high fives to the crowd. That's my preference. I don't see how one preference can be considered more ethical than the other. Vic Sage Dec 10 2008 03:59 PM what Firecracker said? ditto. Kong76 Dec 10 2008 04:02 PM I'm in the everything in moderation and if you over do it and then you don't back it up with winning divisions then you should tone it down until you do camp. I think Jose will show even more maturity this year. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 06:27 PM ="attgig":1rao6nna]bring back lastings. I wanna see a citifield leap into the stands after they cross home plate. baseball is the only sport that this is discouraged, and I find that somewhat elitist.[/quote:1rao6nna] What are you talking about? There is no penalty for dancing in baseball. In football it's 15 yards after the kickoff, or something. TransMonk Dec 10 2008 07:57 PM Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 09:43 PM Where the line is regarding sportsmanship is subjective, but we figure it out as a reasonable consensus builds the further one goes over it. When (without hopefully flames being fanned by a dopey columnist) a large group of your teammates, your hometown fans, or your country (in international sports) are declaring themselves embarassed by you, you've gone over the line. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 07:11 AM So, you should conform your behavior to what a "large group" expects it to be? There are a "large group" of people that want to see more celebrating. Should the non-celebraters feel they've "gone over the line" with their non-celebration? I don't think this is an issue that you can pin any sort of intrinsic value to. Is it unethical to celebrate? Ethical? Evil? Good? Of course it isn't any of those. If you prefer not to see it, that's fine, but you have no grounds to declare it wrong. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 07:59 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":n8sa80tk]So, you should conform your behavior to what a "large group" expects it to be?[/quote:n8sa80tk] If they matter to you. We all do. Social norms exist everywhere. They're challenged daily. Sometimes the norm yields, sometimes the challenger. And sometimes the challenger is rejected outright. ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":n8sa80tk]I don't think this is an issue that you can pin any sort of intrinsic value to. Is it unethical to celebrate? Ethical? Evil? Good? Of course it isn't any of those.[/quote:n8sa80tk] This isn't about celebrating. It's about all sorts of behavior under the heading of "antics." ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":n8sa80tk]If you prefer not to see it, that's fine, but you have no grounds to declare it wrong.[/quote:n8sa80tk] I haven't declared anything to be anything. I don't know what "if you prefer not to see it" is supposed to mean. Some insult, I guess. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 08:22 AM ="Edgy DC"]="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]If you prefer not to see it, that's fine, but you have no grounds to declare it wrong. I haven't declared anything to be anything. I don't know what "if you prefer not to see it" is supposed to mean. Some insult, I guess. Not at all. I'm just saying that's what you (well, not necessarily you, but a theoretical someone who doesn't like antics) prefer to watch. In this case, neither side (people who like to watch the type of celebrating we're talking about or people who don't) can claim they're a majority, nor can they claim they're somehow right in preferring what their preference is, and neither side should expect all players to behave exactly as they want them. There's nothing intrinsically right or wrong with Jose Reyes' handshake things, just as there's nothing intrinsically right or wrong with players who don't celebrate as wildly. It's a matter of preference whether a fan wants to see one or the other. And I apologize that my post said "you" declare it wrong, I didn't mean that. I meant it's not right for anyone (including Larry Anderson) to declare any non-antagonistic celebration wrong. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 08:29 AM This relativism is silly. I have a right to declare what's embarassing to me as a fan. I have a right to vote with my dollars and to shun him. We can talk about it, discuss it, and --- if my ignorant views spread --- lead society to reject him and his kinfolk. I can even come up with social science and psychological support --- non-subjective ones --- for why a particular behavior is damanging to the the team's interests or society's. These may well be nonsense. Or very supporable. But if a man pees on the plate every time he hits a homer and makes a motion to cut the ump's throat, you'll hear from me. And that's what we're talking about. But no, I haven't rejected anybody, and I think the case against Reyes is greatly exaggerated, but they've used it to get in his head. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 08:32 AM I shoulda known that this would careen into various defenses of "playing with fire and emotion" and ethics and so forth. My point was that the Mets have just acquired another guy whose behavior on the field is demonstrative with respect to his peers and can be construed as unsportsmanlike or disrepectful to the game and opponents. I wondered aloud whether the obliviousness and self-satisfaction that kinda behavior broadcasts reveals itself in other ways. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 09:16 AM ="Edgy DC"]This relativism is silly. I have a right to declare what's embarassing to me as a fan. I have a right to vote with my dollars and to shun him. We can talk about it, discuss it, and --- if my ignorant views spread --- lead society to reject him and his kinfolk. I can even come up with social science and psychological support --- non-subjective ones --- for why a particular behavior is damanging to the the team's interests or society's. These may well be nonsense. Or very supporable. But if a man pees on the plate every time he hits a homer and makes a motion to cut the ump's throat, you'll hear from me. And that's what we're talking about. But no, I haven't rejected anybody, and I think the case against Reyes is greatly exaggerated, but they've used it to get in his head. You absolutely have I right to declare something embarrassing to you, but when people claim celebrations are embarrassing to "the sport," they're using their own entertainment preference to mean something larger and more authoritative than what it is. And, as a customer, you absolutely can take your money elsewhere, just like how people with the opposite feelings on the "antics" issue can choose to support the most flamboyant teams. As for shunning the kinfolk, etc, well, that's an unethical response to something (if we're still talking about fist-pumps and the like) that is ethically neutral. Even if a person could show social scientific and psychological support that that a type of behavior, while not wrong on its own, is damaging to a society, that is only part of a debate about personal freedom versus the greater social good that we see manifested to varying degrees in nearly every aspect of our lives. And I'm not talking about threatening to slash an ump's neck, I'm talking about holding your arms over your head or pointing a finger to the sky after you succeed at something. As for getting into Reyes' head, I'm honestly not sure if you're referring to a particular incident, but Jose Reyes just finished a season in which he faced his harshest criticism for on-field antics and performed better than almost everyone else in the sport. THT ranked him tied for 7th in Win Shares, and Prospectus had him 7th in VORP. If someone's in his head, they can stay in there as far as I'm concerned. And, JCL, yes, this topic is pretty far afield from your original question. The Mets missed the playoffs the last two years primarily (I'd contend, anyway) because of problems with the bullpen. Had their bullpen (on the whole, not a very demonstrative group) been a wee bit better the last two seasons, would we be talking about how Jose Reyes' "antics" inspire his team and encourage espirit de corps? Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 09:30 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":1zwlsdu2]And I'm not talking about threatening to slash an ump's neck, I'm talking about holding your arms over your head or pointing a finger to the sky after you succeed at something.[/quote:1zwlsdu2] We're talking broadly about antics. ="Vince Coleman Firecracker":1zwlsdu2]As for getting into Reyes' head, I'm honestly not sure if you're referring to a particular incident...[/quote:1zwlsdu2] I'm referring to my first post. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":2630r3db]We're talking broadly about antics.[/quote:2630r3db] Okay, then put me down as being against singling out an opponent or threatening others, but for all celebratory behavior. ="Edgy DC":2630r3db]I'm referring to my first post.[/quote:2630r3db] I agree that Jose's been put in a lose-lose spot, but his performance doesn't reflect that. He's everything short of an MVP, and he might even get that, as well. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2008 09:47 AM ]And, JCL, yes, this topic is pretty far afield from your original question. The Mets missed the playoffs the last two years primarily (I'd contend, anyway) because of problems with the bullpen. Had their bullpen (on the whole, not a very demonstrative group) been a wee bit better the last two seasons, would we be talking about how Jose Reyes' "antics" inspire his team and encourage espirit de corps? Perhaps then he'd have "more to show for it," though that's not a defense I'd advoacte personally. And I think the entire organization is to blame for their failures, since it (maybe like certain demonstrative ballplayers) appeared entirely too satisfied with itself despite having so little to actually "show." Maybe that's what I'm getting at, the whole idea of the arrogance in the marketing of the team as some kind of dynasty based on a pretty good run two years ago. I dunno. attgig Dec 11 2008 10:33 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":236dg64d]="attgig":236dg64d]bring back lastings. I wanna see a citifield leap into the stands after they cross home plate. baseball is the only sport that this is discouraged, and I find that somewhat elitist.[/quote:236dg64d] What are you talking about? There is no penalty for dancing in baseball. In football it's 15 yards after the kickoff, or something.[/quote:236dg64d] right, and baseball is the only thing that sportswriters will completely go after the player if they do something like that. where in football, it's only the retards like 81, and TO that get that hype. anyone else... it's just passed over. i guess another way to think about it is in football, you get -15 yards where in baseball you get a free base off a hit by pitch.... Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 06:38 AM Antics, Part II Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2008 07:09 AM Cole Hamels talks antics, and labels the Metsies on the Benigno Show Phillies ace Hamels takes bait, labels Mets as "choke artists" By DAVID MURPHY Philadelphia Daily News dmurphy@phillynews.com SAY THIS: Cole Hamels knew it. After ripping Jose Reyes and labeling the Mets "choke artists" and taking the bait on every leading question thrown his way - and they were all leading - the Phillies' ace lefthander laughed into the mouthpiece of his phone and uttered something obvious. "You guys are going to kill me," Hamels said to a pair of hosts on New York's WFAN radio station yesterday. "I know." Two years after Jimmy Rollins labeled the Phillies the team to beat and a year after Carlos Beltran instructed the media to tell Rollins otherwise, Hamels dipped his toe into the already well-populated waters of Phillies-Mets lore, using a 10-minute appearance to both promote DVDs and take umbrage with Reyes' home-run pimpage. The headline-maker was an exchange Hamels had with hosts Joe Benigno and Evan Roberts in which one asks Hamels if he thinks the Mets are choke artists. This is the exchange: Question: "Do you think the Mets are choke artists? A lot of Mets fans think they are. Do you look at it from afar and say, honestly, we know they are going to find a way to lose this thing?" Hamels: "Last year and this year, I think we did believe that. Three years ago, we didn't, because they smoked everybody. I really thought that was the year they were going to the World Series. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. That's kind of what we believe and I think we will always believe it until they prove us wrong." Q: "Wow. It's worth repeating. You say the Mets are choke artists?" Hamels: "Yeah, for the past 2 years they've been choke artists." Perhaps the most interesting portion of the interview, conducted ostensibly so Hamels could hawk a set of DVDs commemorating the Phillies' World Series run, came earlier, when Hamels told a story about Shane Victorino's grand slam off CC Sabathia in Game 2 of the National League Division Series. Throughout the season, the Phillies fancied themselves a team of ballplayers who played the game the "right way." Never was this more evident than after a late-July game in which Reyes hit a three-run home run that eventually proved to be the difference in a 6-3 Mets win. After the game, several Phillies were steamed about the way Reyes conducted himself, rounding the bases, holding one finger in the air. So when Victorino raised his finger in the air while circling the bases after his slam off Sabathia, a few enterprising teammates hung a sign in his locker that said something to the effect of "J-Reyes?" "When Jose Reyes hits home runs, he puts his finger up like he won the game, and he might have only hit it in the first inning or the third inning," Hamels said in the interview. "When Shane did it, he did the same, exact thing. So we said, 'Shane, this doesn't win the game, we still have a lot of game to play. Why are you trying to be like Jose Reyes?' That was kind of where it came from. Even though you hit the big home run, you don't need to pimp it. You just need to run around the bases and kind of get the game started. That's kind of where it came from." The man who gave up that home run to Reyes, Ryan Madson, happened to be making a public appearance last night at the Phillies-hosted premiere of "The Perfect Season," a DVD edited and produced by team videographer Dan Stephenson. Madson shrugged off Hamels' remarks. "All that stuff, that happens all the time," Madson said. "Jimmy did it a few years ago. It's good. It's good for the game. It's good for us two teams. It makes it interesting." (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) metirish Dec 12 2008 06:45 AM It doesn't bother me what he says about choking , the whole thing with Reyes though is getting old, like Jimmy Rollins never raises his finger and points to the sky after hitting a home run. I don't think Reyes can shake this label now anyway. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 07:42 AM Too bad Hamels cannot act with the dignity afforded a WS champion but as mentioned before their using Reyes' "antics" as a rallying point has been all to their advantage. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:55 AM Would he have used the term "choke artists" of Joe hadn't used it first? Later (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:55 AM Not that Hamels has ever showed himself to be the smart one, but doesn't he see that playing that choke card is another way of saying his team didn't deserve it*? *which I don't think is true. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM As 62 points out, Beningo fed him the term "choke artists" and Hamels simply agreed to it. But yeah, it's not to your advantage to say the other team choked. Your position ought to be that your team outplayed them. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:09 AM Well, the author points it out too. I think worms can figure out what Beningo is up to. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Fman99 Dec 12 2008 08:13 AM Ugh. I'd trade 100 years of this pablum for one inning of actual baseball. Stupid winter. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:16 AM ]"All that stuff, that happens all the time," Madson said. "Jimmy did it a few years ago. It's good. It's good for the game. It's good for us two teams. It makes it interesting." Yes, it makes it interesting to deliberately rile the mooks. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) metirish Dec 12 2008 08:19 AM Getting played by Benigno , not a good thing. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:50 AM This team needs to come out next year showing some sack with a "Fuck the World" attitude. I'd like to see the Mets play up their celebrations when they're playing the Phils. I would like to see a full marching band waiting in the bullpen that will come out and perform a Sousa march after every home run. Even if it costs us 15 yards. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 09:53 AM They'll be out for blood after Jerry's Gangster camp. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Frayed Knot Dec 12 2008 10:11 AM It was actually Evan Roberts serving up the poison question, not Baddabingo. But this is a non-story in search of a controversy anyway; The Mets? Yeah, they were chokers over the last two years when they lost but not in the before that when they won, and I'll let you know about the future as soon as I see the results Wow, thems fightin' words.. (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) TransMonk Dec 12 2008 10:20 AM ="Centerfield":3iehvx6z]This team needs to come out next year showing some sack with a "Fuck the World" attitude.[/quote:3iehvx6z] Yup! (Merged from Antics, Part II, 12/23/2008) Edgy DC Dec 23 2008 10:00 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 23 2008 10:14 AM Bobby says Marianito hates Frankie. Why? ANTICS! Mets' image won't be helped by K-Rod By Bob Klapisch Special to ESPN.com In the days before the All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium, Mariano Rivera asked Yankees clubhouse employees for a small but important favor: keep Francisco Rodriguez's temporary locker as far away from his as possible. It was a stunning request from the mild-mannered Yankee, but given how different the two closers are, perhaps not so surprising. By signing with the Mets, K-Rod will bring to Citi Field all the qualities that Rivera finds distasteful, not the least of which are Rodriguez's self-congratulations after each of his saves. If Rivera took exception to K-Rod's two-handed point to the skies, imagine how the rest of the National League will feel about it in 2009. The Mets already have an image problem with the Phillies, and their new bullpen savior isn't likely to improve matters. In fact, K-Rod has been a Met for a little more than a week, and is already immersed in the division's war of words. He declared the Mets, not the Phillies, were the team to beat. The world champs have other ideas: Cole Hamels made the back pages of the New York tabloids recently after calling the Mets "choke artists" on a local radio show. Of course, K-Rod was lured to Flushing to heal that very wound. The Mets' bullpen blew 29 saves last season, which is why K-Rod's lack of restraint made no difference to Omar Minaya during negotiations with the free agent. The Mets' general manager reckons that, if Rodriguez can secure the ninth inning, he's free to act as if he's brought down the Berlin Wall. The Mets certainly are beyond caring what the National League -- and, specifically, the Phillies -- think of them. And Rodriguez isn't about to temper his behavior now that he believes he's been validated by a three-year, $37 million contract. "Of course, I'm never going to change the way I do my job. Never going to change," Rodriguez told reporters. "There might be a little more adrenaline � the New York fans, they make a lot of noise. I try to rob that energy from the crowd. For me, all the noise they're going to make excites me more." K-Rod's celebrating profile will be layered atop Jose Reyes' customized high-fiving after scoring an important run in a big game -- outside the dugout. Such gloating, which has been part of the Mets' legacy since the '80s, has been steadily irritating opponents for the past four years. But unlike the 1986 club, as arrogant as it was successful, the latter-day Mets have collapsed in the past two Septembers -- choked, just as Hamels says. They've yet to win a pennant since the miniature renaissance began in 2006, despite an influx of marquee talent and the ballooning of the payroll over $130 million. That's the fine line Jerry Manuel must navigate in his first full season as the Mets' manager: He wants his players to emote, but without looking foolish. Without citing Reyes in particular, Manuel copped to the Mets' immaturity. Indeed, one baseball executive said, "If you don't think [the celebrating] has any consequence, then why does a team like the Marlins always love to stick it to the Mets?" The implied answer, of course, is that the Marlins -- who, despite being out of the playoff race, denied the Mets a playoff berth in the final weekends of the 2007 and 2008 seasons -- were paying the Mets back for their showboating sins. "I think there were times when we were out of rhythm with what was going on," Manuel admitted, before adding, "if you can back it up, that's fine with me. And you have to do it in a way that's somewhat respectful to the game." Manuel will certainly clamp down on open-air celebrating in a one-sided blowout. No argument there. But it's those one-run games with the Phillies that will test the manager's authority. What happens, say, the first time K-Rod strikes out Ryan Howard to nail down a Mets victory at Citizens Bank Park? You don't have to ask -- "Of course, I'm never going to change the way I do my job. Never going to change." -- Francisco RodriguezRodriguez will have his guns (OK, index fingers) blazing toward the heavens. It'll certainly light the fuse, which, sooner or later in the summer, figures to ignite a fire. Hamels' remark was one of the topics of conversation during the Mets' annual Christmas party for children Wednesday. "Words aren't going to do anything in December," pitcher Mike Pelfrey told The New York Times. "I could not care less about what Cole Hamels said or anybody else on that team said. We've gotten a lot better this offseason, and we need to continue to make some more moves." For now, the Mets are focusing on finding at least two more starting pitchers; they're hopeful of re-signing free agent Oliver Perez, and they have an eye on Randy Wolf. And it's not impossible for Pedro Martinez to return on a one-year contract. But whoever takes the mound for the Mets will eventually hand the ball to J.J. Putz in the eighth inning, followed by K-Rod in the ninth. Love him or loathe him, Rodriguez has made this much clear: He refuses to be ignored. The world (and the Phillies) will be watching. Bob Klapisch is a sports columnist for The Record (N.J.) and a regular contributor to ESPN.com. metirish Dec 23 2008 10:13 AM Happy fuckin Christmas to you too Bob.. ] If Rivera took exception to K-Rod's two-handed point to the skies, imagine how the rest of the National League will feel about it in 2009. The Mets already have an image problem with the Phillies, Rivera of course is not in the NL... themetfairy Dec 23 2008 10:27 AM Barf seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 10:49 AM It's 1986, baby. FIGHT! Centerfield Dec 23 2008 10:55 AM What seawolf said. G-Fafif Dec 23 2008 12:33 PM No game can be said to be truly official unless it is started by Mariano Rivera and the applause washes over him like soft rain. metsguyinmichigan Dec 23 2008 12:40 PM The Klap, ALWAYS looking for something bad to write about the Mets. And with a little Yankee love, thrown in like a cherry on top. Note, again, the unnamed source to throw a pretty mild brick. Klap, you can't get someone to go on the record saying the Marlins got all bent out of shape and delighted in beating the Mets? Maybe talk to, I don't know, one of the Marlins, maybe? They're a pretty chatty bunch. Made no bones about the joy they took and why. Lazy, lazy, lazy. Then again, we have no proof the unanmed person actually exists, and boy, that quote fits perfectly with very point Klapisch was trying to make. Funny how that happens. And, if I remember correctly, Reyes toned down his schtick last year, and people told him to loosen up and have fun again. As for the scenario he describes in the story, with Met-Rod striking out Ryan Howard in a big at-bat, if he doesn't show some kind of emotion in that situation, he's a freaking cyborg ... like Rivera. If I'm paying $47 for a seat in the boonies and paying $5 for a Diet Coke, I kinda like seeing that the guys on the field are a little excited. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 01:13 PM Jeez, you'd think Rivera farts cinnamon and shits gold coins. "Don't put his locker near mine, he might contaminate it!" Douche. And of course ol' stupid Mets-hating MFY-loving Bob Klapisch is there to wear Mo's jock like a surgical mask. Fuck these people. This palaver is activating my brain vein. G-Fafif Dec 23 2008 01:25 PM ="Fman99":2j726juf]Jeez, you'd think Rivera farts cinnamon and shits gold coins.[/quote:2j726juf] Actually, they run an infomercial on just such a contraption on YES. Benjamin Grimm Dec 23 2008 01:29 PM I bet everyone else in the Yankee bullpen finds themselves strangely craving Cin-A-Bon whenever they sit next to Rivera.

Wish we could get in on that Dye action.

I apologize, I was thinking of Let's Rock Again! The Future Is Unwritten is now on my list.

Willets Point wrote: Have you seen The Clash: Westway to the World. Westway is a great rock doc. Does the Joe Strummer flick that the poll is about have a scene where he is trying to get into a radio station to do an interview and he has to explain who he is through the intercom? If so, I enjoyed that one too, though not as much as Westway.

The 2008 postseason player shares have been announced. The Mets were awarded 40 full shares of $9,186, 9.5 partial shares and 23 cash awards.[/url:1swidpac] I never knew that the 2nd place teams from each division get postseason shares even if they don't win the wildcard. The Mets got 'em last year[/url:1swidpac] too. This seems ridiculous to me. The Mets players deserve a swift kick in the arse for missing the playoffs by one game for two years in a row, not a share of the playoff dough.

Which one would Rob Reiner pick? I went with Tap.

="Gwreck":1dstpth6]="TransMonk":1dstpth6]I don't recall any mood-swings, tardiness or rule bending from Pedro, but he was right on the third and fourth year of the contract prediction. One out of four is pretty crappy.[/quote:1dstpth6] Don't forget that Pedro had a fantastic first half (or at least first two months) in 2006. It's more like 1.65/4.[/quote:1dstpth6] Oh, I agree. I was counting Klapisch's predictions for Pedro as a Met as crappy. Edgy DC Dec 01 2008 05:18 PM The Mets got more bang for their buck out of Pedro than ESPN will ever got out of Klapisch. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 01 2008 05:35 PM ="Edgy DC":41as8xke]The Mets got more bang for their buck out of Pedro than ESPN will ever got out of Klapisch.[/quote:41as8xke] That's pretty feint praise and probably accurate too. Pedro was not a help on the team this year, he wasn't much of one last and couldn't answer the bell when we needed him in 06. We could have gotten fractions of good seasons out of a lot of bums. Edgy DC Dec 01 2008 06:36 PM Yeah, I don't come to praise Pedro, but to flatten Klapish, who loads that argument with cheap un-necessary embellishments. You think the sidebar showing only Martinez's 2008 numbers was him or the editor's. metsguyinmichigan Dec 01 2008 07:20 PM I'd just like to see an article from Klap that didn't hate on the Mets. He just seems to have created a niche where he's the dark cloud looking for the negative and nothing else. We all get accused of that -- if I had a dime for every time someone says "You need to write more positive stories about the schools" -- but you don't see these level of negativity from Adam Rubin, who seems to do a fine job and still tells it like it is.

="G-Fafif"]Wonder what Klap wrote four years ago. Klapisch from 12/14/04 More of the same: ]Not only are the Mets getting an ace and a marketable star, Martinez's presence represents a personal triumph for Minaya, who'd spent the first two months of his administration chasing anyone and everyone -- from Shawn Green to Carlos Beltran to Sammy Sosa to Carlos Delgado to Pedro. Interesting that other than Sosa, Omar got all of the others on that list at one time or another. ]It's true, the Sox will miss Pedro and his 16 wins, but they're simultaneously relieved. Now Pedro and his mood-swings and his tardiness and his constant rule-bending will be the Mets' problem, not theirs. And the Mets, not the Sox, will have to deal with Martinez in the third and fourth years of his contract, when he'll be closing in on his 37th birthday. I don't recall any mood-swings, tardiness or rule bending from Pedro, but he was right on the third and fourth year of the contract prediction. One out of four is pretty crappy.

I've got no problems with Pedro's time with the Mets. Was he worth the money? It's not mine, so it's not for me to say. He did give the Mets respectability at a time when they had much less. ]...the Mets would prefer a more realistic re-enlistment -- say one year for $2 million, with performance incentives that could net Martinez $8 million to $10 million. If Pedro agreed to the above, I'd be happy to have him back in '09 as the 5th starter.

I'm over Heilman at this point. There are teams out there that seem to want him as a starter that would probably give up a decent reliever (at least an upgrade from his 2008 numbers) for him and a mediocre prospect. See ya, Aaron.

Franky? The Cicso Kid? Excitable Boy?

K-Rod would be the best start. We need more than just a closer, though.

Edgy DC wrote: ...some of the best music of the twentieth century there... Fman99 wrote: ...but I am a music fan first... Johnny B Goode, Earth Angel, The POWER OF (FREAKING) LOVE! Poor Huey.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1jn4n2h7]I think I speak for everyone ever by saying it would be nice to mix a 73er or 99-00er in there.[/quote:1jn4n2h7] Didn't Zeile get a shot once? Benjamin Grimm Nov 13 2008 01:44 PM I was thinking a 69er: Ron Swoboda. Edgy DC Nov 13 2008 05:02 PM Sam Perlozzo joins the Phils. Bang. metsguyinmichigan Nov 13 2008 11:01 PM ="Edgy DC":828l4i24]Rick Sweet returning as manager of the Louisville Bats. Local favorite Roger Mason joins the Traverse City Beach Bums as pitching coach.[/quote:828l4i24] Traverse City is a beautiful resort area about two hours north of me. The team is fairly new, and plays in an independent league. We used to play in an all-newspaper softball tournament in Traverse, and it was fun until the Detroit News took it over and started stacking its team with ringers who didn't work for the paper. Cads! I'll have to head up this summer and see a game and talk to Mason! Edgy DC Nov 14 2008 10:19 AM Holy Foli, Batman, it's Sammy Drake! In a Mets hat! An old friendship, forged 50 years ago, is rekindled AUGUSTA -- It was the New York Mets cap on his head. This being Red Sox country, people had to stop the athletic, older man this week and ask. "What's up with the hat?" That's when C. Wayne Mitchell glanced at his guest and stepped in. "This is Sammy Drake. Don't you know who he is?" No one did, to the amusement of both men. "He's an original member of the Mets," Mitchell would tell them. "He's my friend." It's a friendship forged nearly 50 years ago, interrupted by decades of separation and searching by Mitchell and resumed about four years ago. Mitchell's family, aware of his wish to reconnect, trolled the Internet, finding Drake at a Mets reunion in New Jersey. Sunday, Drake came to Mitchell's home in Sidney for a four-day visit. They laughed and joked and marveled again at the strength of a relationship neither fully understood when it began on a hot U.S. Army base in the deep south at a time when full integration was still a dream. Drake was a draftee from Little Rock, Ark. trying to keep alive his dream of playing major league baseball while he was serving his country. Mitchell was the 7-year-old son of a career soldier returned from duty in Germany and new to the Georgia base. That summer, the young boy discovered the Fort Gordon Rams and a young, talented infielder who asked Mitchell if he wanted to be the bat boy. "I could see he was interested in baseball," said Drake during lunch at a local restaurant Wednesday. Drake remembered when he fell in love with the game. The two played catch. Sometimes, Mitchell would go the base recreation center where Drake worked. They were so different in age and in race. Then, Mitchell was too young to understand what it meant to be a young black adult in Georgia. Drake, of course, did. A year or two after meeting, Mitchell's father was transferred to Taiwan. Mitchell got a baseball glove, a bat, a handshake, and much later, when he could fully understand, an outlook on life. "Of all the hello's and good-bye's, his was the one I remember most," said Mitchell, while Drake nodded. "I knew a thank-you would be in order." Mitchell's story to this point became a column I wrote four years ago. Then, I couldn't reach Drake who had returned to his home in Los Angeles. Wednesday, at lunch, I introduced myself. Meeting Mitchell wasn't a coincidence, Drake said. There was a reason that maybe still isn't clear 50 years later. Drake was surprised, but not stunned when Mitchell walked up to his table at the hotel where the Mets reunion and autograph session took place. He's met a lot of people in his 74 years and has usually found the goodness in them, even under trying circumstances. "At first I thought he as a typical fan," Drake said. "When he started talking about Fort Gordon I knew right away." Drake can't say he thought about Mitchell much over the years. Neither did he forget the young bat boy who would go to the gym to fold towels and stay out of the way of the soldiers.� "He would get picked on by the ballplayers a little bit. It was all in fun, but I could see it bothered him. I'd say, come with me. Let's play catch." Drake signed with the Chicago Cubs for $1,500 and was later assigned to Macon, Ga. to play for Pepper Martin in the so-called Sally League. He was the first African-American to play in the league he says. The most hurtful part of that season? "Not being able to sleep in the same hotels with my teammates. Not being able to eat with them. I could get carry-out or go across the river to a (black-owned restaurant.)" In the next breath, Drake tells of Martin's effort to get him seated with the team at a restaurant in Indiana. Martin, nicknamed the Wild Horse of the Osage, was a third baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals' "Gashouse Gang" in the 1930s and colorblind. Drake remembers one of his first trips to spring training with the Cubs after his two years in the Army. He was one of three black ballplayers in a group of 50 minor leaguers were assigned to a barracks-style building. "Every night I would pray. They must have thought I was from another planet. "But I had a good spring training. When camp broke, everyone was on their knees praying but two." Monday, Mitchell and Drake had breakfast with Roger Katz, the mayor of Augusta and a baseball fan. Katz invited Drake to speak to the city council that night. He told the story of a Cubs tryout he attended in Winnipeg, Manitoba and the sore arm he had. He couldn't throw across the infield. Discouraged, he called the grandmother who raised him. Don't worry, he was told. She would pray for him. "We had a big snowstorm," said Drake smiling. "We couldn't use the field for two weeks. I soaked my arm in the bath tub every day. I was ready." The Mets drafted him off the Cubs roster. His two-year, major league career was the proverbial cup of coffee. In 53 games he hit .153. His older brother, Solly, played parts of three seasons with the Cubs, Phillies and Dodgers. Together, they were the first African-American brothers to play major league baseball. Early Thursday morning, Drake said good-bye to Mitchell and his wife, Bonnie, and began his trip back to Los Angeles. A graduate of Philander Smith College in Little Rock, he's a retired investigator for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. He teaches Sunday School at the Greater Ebenezer Missionary Baptist Church, where his brother, the Rev. Dr. Solomon Drake, is pastor to a 6,000-member congregation. They've listened to the story of how a young white boy and a young black adult became lasting friends. It shouldn't be forgotten. Edgy DC Nov 19 2008 10:38 AM Jack Aker, out of work and vulnerable like the rest of us. This old ballplayer understands life better than most by Rabbi Ben Kamin, Spiritual Life Examiner Jack Aker, a name known to aficionados of the national pastime, is something of a legend. But if his baseball card could talk, you�d hear a lot more than breezy play-by-play. Here�s a guy who made more appearances (495) as a relief pitcher than anybody in his time, but found himself taken out of the game quite before he expected. Like anybody suddenly not doing the thing we�ve been doing forever, Jack found himself looking down the abyss�he was tearful, anxious, and despondent. Baseball players are real people, in spite of the hype we impose on them, and their souls hurt, their spirits droop, just like all hard-working Americans. Jack won the Sporting News �Fireman of the Year� award in 1966 and played for the Kansas City and then Oakland Athletics, the Seattle Pilots, New York Yankees, Chicago Cubs, Atlanta Braves, and New York Mets. When I met him some years ago, he was pitching coach of the Cleveland Indians; I caught my breath short, extending and receiving hands of friendship with a living and breathing major leaguer who was on a first-name basis with such stars as Phil Niekro and Tom Seaver. I saw him at his tallest. Arriving on the green natural field before game time, Jack came for me, in full regalia�snappy cap and shimmering team jacket. He walked across fresh, chalky baselines with a certain, lanky royalty. There were the first faint smells of popcorn and beer from the bowels from the bowels of the old stadium as the coach escorted me into the clubhouse. Jack took me into a comfortably large room filled with open booths that served as repositories for the players. �Here,� he declared, �we meet and discuss the game plan.� Like a knothole sentry, he walked past the colognes and hair dryers of the bath area towards a large bin containing thick, polished baseball bats. He said, somberly: �Nobody can touch a man�s bat. You see, Ben, they are numbered according to his uniform number. The bat is a very personal matter to a guy. Nobody can touch it.� I understood what a sacrilege was and I shook my head in awe of power and success. A little over a year later, following a season of fallen expectations and profits, Jack (and the team manager) were both summarily dismissed from their positions. Now, this same Jack, record-holder, my invincible hero, sat in the front of my automobile, shoulders slumped, his head in his hands. We were taking a ride in the country as the venerable coach tried to sort things out. His prestige, his income, and his self-image were suddenly as powdery as the faded chalk lines of that emerald ball field he had once ruled. Jack was gone, the manager was gone, as well as a number of the muscular, sleek, swaggering players I had met that shining afternoon�in a different season. A person is so much more than his baseball card, her resume, his cellular list of �contacts.� Jack is doing okay, taking in his children and grandchildren, knowing well what it means to be laid off, discarded, discontinued. Maybe this old ballplayer understands America right now better than most. MFS62 Nov 19 2008 11:00 AM Thank you, Edgy. Anyone who ever lost a job knows that you didn't have to bold that portion. We would have noticed it and commiserated(sp?) with Jack. But the way it was said was an unexpected pleasure in a piece like that, wasn't it? Later Edgy DC Nov 19 2008 11:03 AM I was just imitating the original publishing, which set it as a pullquote. Farmer Ted Nov 19 2008 12:07 PM Tim Foli will return to manage Washington's Class AAA affiliate in 2009. Met Hunter Nov 19 2008 10:37 PM John Stearns will be back managing the Nats AA team in Harrisburg as well. Benjamin Grimm Nov 20 2008 06:14 AM Tim Bogar was among three who interviewed for a spot on the Phillies coaching staff. The problem is, they thought they were interviewing Doug Flynn. Edgy DC Nov 21 2008 10:06 AM John Nunnaly, batting coach with the Columbus Clippers. Edgy DC Nov 23 2008 08:56 PM Jeff Innis, Cape Cod League Hall-of-Famer. Edgy DC Nov 28 2008 11:45 AM Tim Bogar formally accepts the Red Sox offer to coach first. John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 28 2008 12:37 PM The last 5 or 6 messages belong in that other thread. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:34 AM I consider coaching jobs part of retirement. Rico's was a coaching job. I hear you, though. Nonetheless, I'm sticking with it for one more thread, as Joe McEwing takes over the Winston-Salem Former Warthogs. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 10:43 AM Just for that it's my duty to report that Jason Hardtke has been named hitting coach of the Missoula Osprey (Dbaggs -Pioneer League). The Baggs also named Brett Butler manager of the Reno Aces (PCL). G-Fafif Dec 04 2008 01:04 PM I once received a letter letting me know Brett Butler would come and speak to my employees and motivate them with his life experiences and faith in Christ for only $20,000. How much is each Ace going to have to ante up for the privilege? Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:38 AM West Michigan Whitecaps going with Met pedigree this year, adding Benny Distefano to Joe DePastino's staff. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 09:56 AM You must have overlooked Jerry Cram in your Google subscription: ="Our Sports Central":3gap6pnt] SAN JOSE, CALIF December 15, 2008- The San Jose Giants announced their 2009 coaching staff today with Andy Skeels joining the club as manager, Jerry Cram as pitching coach and Gary Davenport returning as hitting coach. Yukiya Oba also returns as the team's athletic trainer. ... Jerry Cram is familiar with San Jose after spending three years as the Giants pitching coach from 2001-2003. The former major leaguer is now entering his ninth season in the San Francisco organization after working the last five years (2004-2008) as pitching coach of the Salem- Keizer Volcanoes (Short-Season). During his time in the Giants farm system, Cram's teams have won three league championships: San Jose in 2001 and Salem-Keizer in 2006 and 2007. Cram spent parts of four seasons in the major leagues with the Kansas City Royals (1969, 1976) and New York Mets (1974-1975), compiling a 0-3 record and 2.98 ERA over 23 career appearances. Cram has devoted 28 years to the Kansas City organization, the last 14 as a pitching instructor, in a tenure that ended in 1997. Cram then spent three seasons as a pitching coach in the Colorado Rockies minor league system before joining the San Francisco organization prior to the 2001 campaign. ... The San Jose Giants open their 2009 season on Thursday, April 9th at Municipal Stadium vs. the Stockton Ports. The Opening Night Extravaganza will include a post-game fireworks display, 2009 magnet schedule giveaway, the return of Gigante and much more. [/quote:3gap6pnt] metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 12:29 PM ="Edgy DC":3l94882y]West Michigan Whitecaps going with Met pedigree this year, adding Benny Distefano to Joe DePastino's staff.[/quote:3l94882y] The Whitecaps have a thing on Sunday afternoons where you can either go on the field to play catch, or go near the dugout where all the players stand in a line and sign autographs. (kids get a free soda and hot dog, too. We got to a lot of Sunday games.) So last year I brought my treasured Mets book, sought out DePastino to sign it and tried to talk to him about his short Mets tenure. Even though there was no one else around and nothing going on, he had absolutely nothing to say. Was disappointed. Maybe I'll have better luck with Benny. G-Fafif Dec 16 2008 12:37 PM ="Edgy DC":1sfgljfz]West Michigan Whitecaps going with Met pedigree this year, adding Benny Distefano to Joe DePastino's staff.[/quote:1sfgljfz] What's Distefano's Met pedigree (other than breaking up David Cone's no-hitter?) At least this will give Distefano and DePastino a chance to exchange each other's misdirected mail. Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2008 12:49 PM He was a replacement player with the Mets in spring training 1995. G-Fafif Dec 16 2008 12:59 PM Now that you say it, it sounds remotely familiar though I have to confess I might have missed it on a multiple choice. Any other ex-big leaguers in that camp? metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 02:07 PM Stan Jefferson, I think. I saw a couple of those spring games. HahnSolo Dec 16 2008 02:25 PM ="G-Fafif":1lmhw7l1]="Edgy DC":1lmhw7l1]West Michigan Whitecaps going with Met pedigree this year, adding Benny Distefano to Joe DePastino's staff.[/quote:1lmhw7l1] What's Distefano's Met pedigree (other than breaking up David Cone's no-hitter?) At least this will give Distefano and DePastino a chance to exchange each other's misdirected mail.[/quote:1lmhw7l1] Italian restaurants in West Michigan are scurrying to bid for the postgame spread. HahnSolo Dec 16 2008 02:26 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":2a90z7f9]Stan Jefferson, I think. I saw a couple of those spring games.[/quote:2a90z7f9] Two guys I went to high school with, Cliff Gonzalez (8th round pick of the Mets in '85) and Chris Walpole, were in that camp. Gonzalez and Jefferson knew each other having both been from Co-op City. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 09:11 AM ] DYKSTRA DROPS THE BALL By KEITH J. KELLY December 17, 2008 -- FORMER New York Mets out fielder Lenny Dykstra appears to be striking out with his magazine, Players Club. Dykstra, who helped the 1986 Mets capture the World Series before landing with the Philadelphia Phillies, is leaving behind a string of unpaid bills and a constant parade of shifting editors and office addresses. In the latest upheaval, Chris Frankie, the acting editor, resigned Dec. 4 along with two other staffers. Now Loren Feldman, former editor-in-chief of Philadelphia magazine, is said to be ready to join as the new chief editor. "Loren Feldman is the new editor," said Dykstra. Meanwhile, Frankie says he's owed back pay. But Dykstra sees things differently: "That's not true. Frankie owes me money. Whatever he's talking about is delusional." Counters Frankie, "That's beyond ridiculous. How could an employee owe an employer money?" Beyond three months' back pay, Frankie said he's also owed for business expenses. Frankie, who had originally helped Dykstra write the TheStreet.com's "Nails on the Numbers" column, got the editor job in August after Dykstra's talks with Neil Amdur, a former sports editor at The New York Times, collapsed at the last minute after a fight over Amdur's ability to hire deputies. "I did fly out there for a meeting with Dykstra about the editor's job," Amdur confirmed. "I spent a couple of days with him. He did offer me the job." The last issue of Players Club was published in October, and the November issue will now be combined into a year-end double issue that has yet to appear. His aim with the magazine was to help professional athletes make sensible investments with the money they earn from sports to ensure they don't go broke when their pro careers end. But present and former staffers say that Dykstra, who during his days with Major League Baseball had the nickname "Nails," is tough as nails when it comes to paying his staff or vendors. Frequently, sources said, he got staff to use their own credit cards to pay for ex penses related to the maga zine, and took months to re imburse the employees. Although the magazine is less than a year old, it has al ready had four different printers and three different editors. Several vendors have also stopped doing business with the magazine. The latest vendor to suspend business is Getty Images, which sources say is owed around $40,000. Dykstra claims that's not true. "I have a great relationship with them," he said of Getty. One source who's worked closely with Dykstra said he "has a haphazard way of paying - he just wires you money." "It's always that the money is just about to come in and everyone will be paid," this person said, adding that if someone demands payment, then Dykstra turns on them. "If you demand payment, then you are the enemy. "He always feels abandoned by people, but he doesn't seem to realize that he's the reason people abandon him." Frayed Knot Dec 17 2008 09:24 AM This surprises me not. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2008 09:26 AM Gotta love the irony in this venture being all about athletes spending wisely. Edgy DC Dec 17 2008 09:26 AM Another day, another house of cards. Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 03:04 PM Aaron Ledesma, infield coach for the Scranton-Wilkes Barre Yankees. The Yankees get a AAA infield coach? What a ripoff! Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:36 PM Mike Bordick, head baseball coach at Boys' Latin School in Baltimore. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 08:28 AM DJ has no regrets. Of course he doesn't. He got to be a Met. D.J. Dozier had a Bo Jackson-like versatility Posted to: 50 Greatest Sports By Ed Miller The Virginian-Pilot As William, Bill, or even Billy, it just would not have worked as well. William Henry "D.J." Dozier would have been no less the athlete without that alliterative name, smooth as one of his touchdown runs or fielding gems at shortstop. That name - "D.J. Dozier" - was the shiny bow on top of the package of prep stardom. And Dozier was the complete package: a three-sport standout at Kempsville High, wooed by virtually every major football program in the country, coveted by virtually every pro baseball scout. Virginia Tech coach Bill Dooley came to the Norfolk Sports Club in December 1982 and made a public pitch for Dozier, something that would not be allowed under recruiting rules today, when coaches can't woo prospects through the media. Major league teams waved dollar signs in front of him, trying to convince him to skip football and play baseball. Dozier, No. 12 on the list of greatest athletes from South Hampton Roads, chose football - and Penn State. Later, after several years in the NFL, he reversed course and picked up a bat and glove. Good enough to briefly make it to the majors, he was, in an era of two-sport dabblers, a local, lower-wattage version of guys such as Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders. "Obviously, when you look at the statistics, the numbers are certainly not what I hoped they would have been," said Dozier, now 43 and back in Virginia Beach working as a business consultant. "But the fact that I had the opportunity to go that far with what I would call God-given ability is a tremendous blessing." A dynamo at Penn State, Dozier forever will be a made man among Nittany Lion greats after leading the team in rushing four straight years, earning All-America honors twice and scoring the winning touchdown in a national championship victory over Miami. Things never clicked for him in the NFL, though. A first-round pick, Dozier missed time with injuries and didn't like the way the Vikings were using him - which was not too often. After three years, he signed with the Mets and began the climb through the minors in 1990. Meanwhile, contract talks with the Vikings stalled. Dozier finally re-signed with them halfway through the 1990 season. Dozier finished out that season and played six games with Detroit in 1991. With his baseball career seemingly blossoming, he left football behind. He would play just 25 games for the Mets, though, in 1992. In 1994, at 28, he moved on with his life, retiring from baseball. Dozier has coached, traveled the world doing missionary work, worked as a financial planner and investment banker. He moved back to Virginia recently from Allentown, Pa. He brought with him no regrets. Dozier said he remembered a former Kempsville teammate who played at Lock Haven University. Dozier knew he was good enough to play at Penn State and told his coaches. They offered him a chance to come to Happy Valley. In the end, though, the friend chose the security of staying at Lock Haven, later second-guessing his decision not to take his shot. "I never forgot what he told me about the regret part of it," Dozier said. "That's what it was for me with baseball. I look at it as something that was a bit nuts, but I really felt that I could do it. "The biggest thing about it is I didn't want to look back and regret not trying." He'll never have to. Ed Miller, (757) 446-2372 ed.miller@pilotonline.com metsguyinmichigan Dec 26 2008 11:17 AM That's a nice story! Plus, I'd forgotten how nasty those old Tides caps were. G-Fafif Dec 26 2008 01:32 PM ="Frayed Knot":34ueq9bz]Mike Bordick, head baseball coach at Boys' Latin School in Baltimore.[/quote:34ueq9bz] How do you suppose he'll greet his new players...or monstrously huge batboy? themetfairy Dec 26 2008 02:12 PM ="G-Fafif":1emwxaju]="Frayed Knot":1emwxaju]Mike Bordick, head baseball coach at Boys' Latin School in Baltimore.[/quote:1emwxaju] How do you suppose he'll greet his new players...or monstrously huge batboy?[/quote:1emwxaju] No - just with a simple, "Welcome Abordick," of course! Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 07:42 AM Felix Mantilla, spreading the good chromosomes around. Mantilla earning court time at Yale December 30, 2008 NEWS-SUN STAFF REPORT Mundelein High grad Raffi Mantilla has worked his way into the playing rotation for the Yale University men's basketball team. The sophomore guard has played in all eight Bulldog games (2-6 record), and is averaging nearly 10 minutes of action each game. He's scored a total of 18 points in those eight contests. Mantilla is the grandson of former major-league baseball player Felix Mantilla, who played with the Milwaukee Braves, New York Mets and Boston Red Sox in a long pro career. MFS62 Jan 03 2009 02:29 PM In keeping with the three name thread in the non-baseball forum, I'll always remember him as Felix Lamela Mantilla. (I dunno why, but his middle name always stuck in my mind) Later Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 02:31 PM Yup, and time to retire Brogna 2008.