batmagadanleadoff

Frayed Knot wrote: Sounds like extra rest on one end is "a line of thinking" while on the other it becomes "distorting nit-picky minutiae" No. The Nats had a plan for Strasburg that was not going to be altered by the team's post-season aspirations. Not so, the Mets. The Mets might've treated Harvey with kid gloves at first, but it's easy to coddle Harvey when the Mets are putting up an offense that is of historical ineptitude and it seems that that Mets are still a year or two away from contention. But when the Mets suddenly transformed themselves in mid-season, their initial plans for Harvey went out the window. They no longer followed "that plan". And again, when you have him pitching intense playoff innings in October, well there is a credible line of medical thought that that new workload is capable of nullifying all of the earlier handling or coddling of Harvey. And the Mets were aware of that.

cooby wrote: I have a question. Are you calling him eff on puppies? OE: purpose not puppies! What do you mean by puppies? I don't get the puppies reference?

Centerfield wrote: But that is a lot of money for David to walk away from. How does the insurance work? Can David just sit on the 60 day DL until 2020 and collect his money while the Mets collect a portion of it from insurance? That depends on whether Wright himself took out insurance on his inability to complete his contract. And if so, we'd then need to know the terms and conditions of the policy to determine whether and when Wright could collect if he's forced to retire from health/injuries before his contract ends. We already know that the Wilpons took out insurance on Wright's contract.

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, relax. With your facts and whatnot. It's just a thread. What does that mean?

[fimg=400:3457rf48]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/2008/Upper-Deck-First-Edition/494/Paul-Lo-Duca.jpg?id=3a6823ad-b6b9-4528-9aab-45067ce4f2a6&size=zoom[/fimg:3457rf48][fimg=400:3457rf48]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7427/27018784532_e5bd0736cd_o.jpg[/fimg:3457rf48] [fimg=600:3457rf48]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/2009/Topps-Heritage/99/Lastings-Milledge.jpg?id=31dc6ada-3473-432b-96e3-ce15e6df7f13&size=zoom[/fimg:3457rf48][fimg=400:3457rf48]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/2006/Topps-Heritage/357/Brian-Schneider.jpg?id=dea92513-c10e-443d-aecf-701978b39464&size=zoom[/fimg:3457rf48] [fimg=400:3457rf48]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/1972-73/DimancheDerniere-Heure/WAGA/Wayne-Garrett.jpg?id=dbabf8bd-850d-40a7-af3a-17d023c2479a&size=zoom[/fimg:3457rf48][fimg=400:3457rf48]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/1977/Topps/417/Wayne-Garrett.jpg?id=b9ef63cd-cd81-4bff-a8b8-1d6d20700d77&size=zoom[/fimg:3457rf48]

Yeah, I know. But let's not over complicate this discussion with nit-picky minutiae that distorts the conversation more than anything else. I'm simply saying that I think the Mets'll compromise Harvey's long-term future for short-term gain. Like last year's end of the year handling of Harvey for a post-season run so that the Mets - a team in financial ruin - might make dozens of millions of dollars.

He's 35 years old. He should be declining. And if you think last year was an outlier, as you write, then he should be worse than he was in 2014.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he retired before the end of his contract... That's what I was starting to think this past week or two. Thoughts amplified after watching Wright these past few games and then reading this Washington Post article yesterday: David Wright’s back is a mess, and the Mets’ captain could be lost at sea By Barry Svrluga May 18 at 10:08 PM NEW YORK — The unimportant steps David Wright took Wednesday night, in the moments before first pitch, are suddenly paramount. He is a 33-year-old man with the back of someone twice his age, a back that is more difficult to manage than toddler triplets. So those idle jogs big leaguers take across the shallow outfield grass as the crowd files in and the lineups are announced? They’re not idle anymore. “This kid, he is extremely proud,” Mets Manager Terry Collins said. “He wants to play. He knows who he is and what he does for this organization, and he wants to be on that field, and he thinks that’s the way for him to lead. And I understand that. I totally get that. But I will tell you when you sit and talk to him, you’ll sense the frustration.” The frustration is here, in May, and it’s almost certainly a summer-long issue for Wright, for the Mets and therefore for the National League East race. Wright was back in the lineup Wednesday night for the second game of an interesting early-season series against the Washington Nationals. To be in the lineup — playing third base, hitting third — Wright had to perform not just the more-important-than-they-used-to-be pregame trots, but undergo a litany of stretches, his body a pretzel. “That’s no fun,” Wright said after he went 0 for 4 in a 7-1 Nationals’ win. This is what spinal stenosis has wrought on Wright, a seven-time all-star who has been the face of this franchise for more than a decade. Last year, the condition — a narrowing of the spinal column — snuck up on Wright after he suffered a strained hamstring, then caused angst all summer as he developed severe back pain. The Mets stayed in the race without their captain, but even as he returned in August and played well as the Mets won the National League pennant, there were no obvious answers about his future. He is owed $87 million from 2016 to 2020, five seasons in which the Mets hardly know what to expect — not just in total, and not just year-to-year, but night-to-night. “It’s tough coming to the ballpark every day and seeing if it’s going to be a good day or a not-so-good day,” Wright said. “That’s the challenging part — mentally and physically.” When Wright arrived at the ballpark for Tuesday’s series opener, he simply was in no physical condition to play. The Mets were coming off a day off. Yet Collins sat him down, and then sat him out. “My star player wanted to play, and he was hurting,” Collins said. “And the discussion was, ‘I know you want to play. I know the situation — big game, big series, the captain. I get it. But I have a responsibility to David Wright, the other 24 guys in the clubhouse and myself.’ And I said, ‘I just can’t let you play. We need you more than just one game.’ ” The Mets’ plan has been to play Wright no more than three games in a row. But even this approach to managing the problem has been fraught. As the Mets wrapped up a West Coast trip in Colorado, with Wright having gone 4 for 26 along the way, Collins sat him for the finale. But the manager needed a pinch hitter, so Wright began his stretching ritual, got as loose as he could, and took an at-bat in the ninth. With two outs and the tying run on first, he grounded out to end the game. Might that single at-bat have had an impact on Wright’s inability to play Tuesday? “I have no idea,” Collins said. But it clearly will impact the Mets going forward. There may well be days when Wright is completely off limits. In a race that could be taut — the Nats led the Mets by 1½ games — regularly playing down a man could be significant. Plus, Collins said that the current plan is little more than guesswork, and it may well have to change. Collins said he told Wright on Tuesday: “ ‘When we talked about managing this, we put this three-and-one thing together because we played you four days in a row and that didn’t work, so we went to three and one.’ And I said, ‘There’s no telling, we may go to two and one. Maybe we need to go three and two. We’ll manage it as it goes.’ ” This is, though, difficult with a player of Wright’s stature — not to mention the years and dollars remaining on his contract. Wright is friends with Nationals stalwart Ryan Zimmerman, the players joined in age and Virginia roots, in abilities and position on the field, in importance to their franchise. In 2014, when his surgically repaired right shoulder severely compromised his ability to make throws from third base, Zimmerman moved to left field, then last year to first base. Zimmerman said he tries not to talk to Wright about his back issues — “a different animal,” he said — but he knows something of managing crippling physical problems but holding the same standards. “You expect certain levels out of yourself,” Zimmerman said. “And part of that is it’s hard to not play every day at this level and be successful. . . . Especially if you’ve been an everyday player your whole career, and then [you’re] forced to take off a lot of days, or maybe just play 120, 125 games. That’s not an easy thing to do.” That is Wright’s current world. The Mets could try to move him to first base, where Lucas Duda is only under club control through next year, to lessen the additional toll that throwing can put on Wright’s back. But the back, it’s a different animal, and Wright’s condition makes his situation an entirely different species. In the eighth inning Wednesday night, Wright swung through a 92-mph fastball from Nationals reliever Shawn Kelley, his third strikeout of the night, his 47th in 139 plate appearances. So the questions come: Was his back bothering him? Does he need another day off? How’s he feeling today, and how will he feel tomorrow and in June and in September? “The back thing is just something that I’m going to have to get used to,” he said, “because it’s not changing.” The Mets, though, may have to change how they deal with it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/david-wrights-back-is-a-mess-and-the-mets-captain-could-be-lost-at-sea/2016/05/18/f3b80b98-1d19-11e6-9c81-4be1c14fb8c8_story.html

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: No, the Mets limited Harvey's workload all season. They just did it piecemeal throughout the year, rather than shut him down at a pre-set limit. They didn't limit Harvey like Strasburg was limited. Harvey's load or limit was re-calibrated or adjusted once it became apparent that the Mets were post-season bound. Yes, I made it abundantly clear that it was different. You left out any information suggesting anything at all was done for Harvey. That just isn't true. The main difference was that the Mets decided all bets were off for the post-season, and the Nats decided otherwise. That's a value judgment, but I certainly supported the Mets decision. And I don't loathe any player that doesn't fall in line like a slave. It's very commendable that the Mets monitored Harvey's workload for much of last season, but there's a line of thinking out there that if you extend a pitcher situated as Harvey was for an extra month or so of pitching, you might be undermining or nullifying all of the earlier coddling.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: You could think what you want, but in my mind, the Wilpons are exploiting the shit out of Harvey, and might have already jeopardized his future for an immediate payday. TBD I don't really believe this. I mean, I believe that Harvey's antics and his agent bother them, and that they are extremely unlikely to sign him again, but it's only fair to consider how they specifically resisted bringing him back 5 minutes after the surgery like Hovvey demanded. They don't intend to injure the guy. I don't think they intend to injure the guy either. That's insanity. But if given the choice of taking a 15 or 20% chance of compromising Harvey's chances of one day signing a nine figure contract so that the Mets might make an extra $40M or $80M in the post-season, I think I know how the Mets are thinking. Especially these Mets.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm not whispering. Harvey's fat! That, too.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: No, the Mets limited Harvey's workload all season. They just did it piecemeal throughout the year, rather than shut him down at a pre-set limit. They didn't limit Harvey like Strasburg was limited. Harvey's load or limit was re-calibrated or adjusted once it became apparent that the Mets were post-season bound. Otherwise, that big Boras/Harvey/Alderson blowout would never have happened. You could think what you want, but in my mind, the Wilpons are exploiting the shit out of Harvey, and might have already jeopardized his future for an immediate payday. TBD

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: No, the Mets limited Harvey's workload all season. They just did it piecemeal throughout the year, rather than shut him down at a pre-set limit. They didn't limit Harvey like Strasburg was limited. Harvey's load or limit was re-calibrated or adjusted once it became apparent that the Mets were post-season bound. Otherwise, that big Boras/Harvey/Alderson blowout would never have happened.

Edgy MD wrote: No, the Mets limited Harvey's workload all season. They just did it piecemeal throughout the year, rather than shut him down at a pre-set limit. They didn't limit Harvey like Strasburg was limited. Harvey's load or limit was re-calibrated or adjusted once it became apparent that the Mets were post-season bound.

Here's another way that Harvey and Strasburg are linked (or contrasted). The Nats shut down Strasburg per a strict innings pitched/workload limit in his comeback from surgery season. The Nats said they would've stuck to that plan even if the Nats went to the WS. By contrast --- well, you know what by contrast means. By contrast, Harvey found himself in the middle of a poorly handled controversy over his workload in his (2015) comeback season. If you ask me, the difference is in the owners. The Wilpons couldn't give a flying fuck about Harvey's long term health because they probably have no intention of giving Harvey that next big contract. The Wilpons probably loath Harvey anyways because they pretty much hate any player who doesn't fall in line like a slave. And Harvey, with his outsized personality, well you could figure that one out. So if eff n jeff couldn't care less about Harvey's long term health, they might as well ride him out and wear him out -- their only goals re Harvey being short term, like last year's playoff run -- which might've given the franchise new financial life. Meanwhile, some people are starting to whisper or imply things or call into question Harvey's health already.

Zvon wrote: Zvon wrote: Put a little shit stain on Ollie's pants. What else? Hmmm. Oh, Ankiel has to be cross eyed. Oh ... you're done with Ollie?

I was trying to point out this: Too small to make out accurately.

Zvon wrote: Put a little shit stain on Ollie's pants. What else?

eff Wilpon asked me to ask the board if youse wanna do a Nationals/Expos thread and could I put Jackie in there? [fimg=380:3mys7bhy]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7486/26478948774_4a8f821368_o.jpg[/fimg:3mys7bhy][fimg=400:3mys7bhy]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/2011/Topps-Heritage/186/Rick-Ankiel.jpg?id=61dfab0c-b47a-47e5-b63a-01da71d27469&size=zoom[/fimg:3mys7bhy] [fimg=380:3mys7bhy]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lm4AAOSw2GlXH1EX/s-l1600.jpg[/fimg:3mys7bhy][fimg=400:3mys7bhy]http://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/1971/Topps/232/John-Strohmayer.jpg?id=fd714a6c-0b43-474a-b3f4-f39b459ad7bf&size=zoom[/fimg:3mys7bhy]

OMG! It's the attack of the 50 foot tall Butterball!

Oh my god! youtube pulled the movie. Copyrights and all. Luckily I found the trailer. [youtube:jqhwkbaw]4p69TvnwTaw[/youtube:jqhwkbaw] And an American youtube reviewer. [youtube:jqhwkbaw]wxEHwIyQEGE[/youtube:jqhwkbaw] Too bad about the missing gone movie. There were some scenes to be seen. I'm so depressed over this, I might buy the movie of the DVD just to post it here.

I like Sunshine of Your Love and While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Doesn't mean I'd wanna hafta hear them played, mandatorily, at the start of every baseball game while I'm required to stand up. And then on top of that, it won't be Cream or the Beatles but someone like Mariah Carey doing the performance.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: His walk rates are a lot higher -- something very often associated with a former star suddenly losing bat speed, and then adjusting. Willie Mays, perhaps the best example. But yeah, Wright's not the same player that he was. Jeez, he used to murder lefties better than anybody else. Nowadays, they can get him out with heat right down the middle of the plate. Jeez, he's had to deal with a lot of adversity ever since the Mets moved into Citi Field -- not coincidentally. Citi Field itself was a horror show to have to hit in in its first few seasons.

His walk rates are a lot higher -- something very often associated with a former star suddenly losing bat speed, and then adjusting. Willie Mays, perhaps the best example. But yeah, Wright's not the same player that he was. Jeez, he used to murder lefties better than anybody else. Nowadays, they can get him out with heat right down the middle of the plate.

I couldn't give a flying fuck about this one. Personally, I'm sick to death about the Anthem and wouldn't miss a beat if they never played it again before sporting events. It's a waste of time, AFAIC, and for my money, Dwayne Wade could take all the practice shots he wants during the playing of. Same goes for those super duper douchy fans who appoint themselves as hat police, butting into business that isn't any of theirs. Oh, my, he's wearing a hat while they're playing the anthem. Now the whole world's gonna come to an end. I never heard of something so stupid.