Mex17

Thinking about it a little more, if I had to sacrifice one of that haul it would be Cabrera and I would replace him with bringing Johnson back for a lot less $$$. It looks to me that the next items on the agenda are bringing Colon back and netting one out of Span or Parra.

With the Walker trade done, is it unreasonable for an overall net total going forward to be Cabrera/Parra/Colon/Clippard/Blevins? This can be a complete team, and not unreasonable to expect as far as I am concerned. . . Granderson-rf Walker-2b Wright-3b Duda-1b d'Arnaud-c Conforto-lf Parra/Lagares-cf Cabrera-ss Harvey deGrom Syndergaard Matz Colon Familia Clippard Reed Torres Blevins Robles Gilmartin/Goeddel Plawecki Cuddyer Flores Tejada

Even if they do end up with Heyward, Upton, or Cespedes, I think that you still hold on to Lagares, find ways to get him in there (even though that would admittedly be quite a bit harder) and you still have him when Granderson is gone in two years,

Look at the team that just beat us. Didn't it look like Yost was finding ways to get Jarrod Dyson and Paulo Orlando in there? You are basically arguing against having team depth (or, if not you, then Rubin or the front office is).

Frayed Knot wrote: OK, I'll try once more. The Mets currently have three OFs under multi-year deals plus Conforto, which means that if they go out to sign a premier FA OF it's not going to be in addition to what they already have but instead of one or more of them. If you want to argue for that strategy then fine, but a top FA isn't coming here to platoon and the team isn't moving Granderson (their best offensive player this past year) nor LAGARES (a 26 y/o GG CF) to a backup/PH role. If you want to keep those guys and merely reduce their roles then it's going to be for a lesser, more platoon-type of import, not the likes of Heyward or Upton or Adam Jones. Juan Lagares is a nice asset and a good guy to have on the team but his BA dropped 22 points in one year and we still do not know if he can throw. The Mets are the defending National League Champions and need to replace the primary guy who got them to the postseason who, incidentally, put Lagares's ass on the bench in the first place. I am also not even talking about Upton or Heyward in this particular discussion (although I would like to be) but instead Denard Span specifically (because that is one of the three names that Carig has specifically mentioned several times over). If Rubin is right and they do not even go out and get one of the "Carig Three" if an affordable financial deal is in their laps for one of them because they want to gift wrap centerfield for Juan Lagares, then they are morons who are not serious about winning. Lagares will still play a lot if Span or Parra are on the team anyway. Lagares/Parra would be a straight platoon. With Span not quite as much but my guess is that Span will still need time off since he is coming off an injury season and they can use Lagares to hedge against Span breaking down. You can still keep Lagares in the mix as a strong bench player (good teams have Juan Lagares type players on the bench. . .bad ones have Kirk Nieuwenhuis or Darrell Cecilliani) and start prepping him for a few years when his money really starts to kick in. For 2016 though, he is a $2.5 million player.

Edgy MD wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Does anyone understand the nuances of Desmond's struggles this year -- injury? personal turmoil? over the hill? Bad relationship with management? Because he at least once was a good+ player, albeit one who whiffs a little too much. You figure he's the kind of player some team will gamble on fixing with a good hitting coach or something. I dunno, but he peaked in August after having a sit-down with Cal Ripken. He crashed back down in September, but so did his whole demoralized team. Heh-heh. If the Mets wanna go really cheap, of course, it's Tejada and Flores up the middle, with Herrera, Reynolds, and Cecchini pressing from below. Middle infield is just fine with what we have.

Plus, Lagares is not an "incumbent" starter anyway. The outfield at the end of the season (and the one that was in place during the late season run) was Conforto/Cespedes/Granderson.

Adam Rubin dashes Heyward hopes: BOCA RATON, Fla. -- The New York Mets are shopping for a center fielder, but they are not interested in bringing in a free agent who would limit Juan Lagares to a bench role. The Mets made a sizable financial commitment to Lagares on the eve of this past season that guarantees him $2.5 million in 2016, $4.5 million in 2017, $6.5 million in 2018 and $9 million in 2019. The hope is to add a player capable of manning center field who can complement Lagares. Mets don't want to displace Juan Lagares with outfield addition The article also includes this little gem: The Mets would have to weigh at that point whether in-house options such as Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Darrell Ceciliani may be just as attractive. OH GOD FORBID THAT THEY HAVE A STRONG BENCH!!!!! LET'S INSTEAD PURPOSELY MAKE THE TEAM WORSE THAN WHAT IS POSSIBLE SO THAT JUAN LAGARES CAN BE CODDLED!! The point is (as discussed in the other thread) that if you bring in a top FA it would be for the purpose of replacing an incumbent like Lagares not with the idea of platooning with him. No FA at or near his prime is going to sign up for a part-time job or a short-term one, and the Mets aren't going to shelve Lagares to a once a week start/PH status for the next several seasons just a year after committing to a multi-year deal to him. Sorry, but you cannot convince me that this would be a better team with Kirk Nieuwenhuis or Darrell Ceciliani on the roster as opposed to (just as one example) a potentially healthy Denard Span. Lagares has shown potential at times, but can you tell me that he is a lock-down starter on a championship level team? And what is wrong with a solid player who can step in and start having a place on your bench (especially when the 2016 price tab is only $2.5 million)? Perennially successful organizations think in a certain manner, and ones that are not perennially successful think another way. Ask yourself how this organization thinks and be honest.

Adam Rubin dashes Heyward hopes: BOCA RATON, Fla. -- The New York Mets are shopping for a center fielder, but they are not interested in bringing in a free agent who would limit Juan Lagares to a bench role. The Mets made a sizable financial commitment to Lagares on the eve of this past season that guarantees him $2.5 million in 2016, $4.5 million in 2017, $6.5 million in 2018 and $9 million in 2019. The hope is to add a player capable of manning center field who can complement Lagares. Mets don't want to displace Juan Lagares with outfield addition The article also includes this little gem: The Mets would have to weigh at that point whether in-house options such as Kirk Nieuwenhuis and Darrell Ceciliani may be just as attractive. OH GOD FORBID THAT THEY HAVE A STRONG BENCH!!!!! LET'S INSTEAD PURPOSELY MAKE THE TEAM WORSE THAN WHAT IS POSSIBLE SO THAT JUAN LAGARES CAN BE CODDLED!!

Let's start with Rubin's $92 million estimate for starters and add to that. . . . Denard Span: 3 years, $30 million but frontloaded. $12 million in 2016, $10 million in 2017, $8 million in 2018 (when he is 34 and likely to start to have diminished speed). Darren O'Day: Three years, $21 million. $7 million annually each year. Jerry Blevins: One year, $2 million. Kelly Johnson: One year, $2 million. So for 2016. . . $92 million + $12 million + $7 million + $2 million + $2 million = $115 million right on the nuggets! If this or something very similar to it does not occur, then what I am basically being told is that a New York-based franchise that just came off a pennant winning season cannot afford to even be in the middle tier of MLB payrolls. And if that is true, good luck keeping a fan base.

Frayed Knot wrote: A handy-dandy synopsis of the major players for this winter. Forget the predictions, those are just guess-work anyway, but the write-ups can be useful. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=27844 What possible need would the Mets have for Mike Leake?

How does this work? He was taken off the 40-man so now he gets to walk? Otherwise he does not yet have the service time (neither does Black).

Syndergaard throws a gem and hits a dinger in a day game at Citi against Philly.

http://espn.go.com/blog/newyork/mets/post/_/id/113061/mets-payroll-obligation-for-2016-nearly-90m-before-any-winter-activity $92 million to start + $15 million for an outfielder (Heyward, Fowler, Span, Parra, Rasmus) + $6 million to bring Uribe back + $2 million to bring Blevins back = $115 million Totally achievable.

I think that Cespedes and Upton would cost you $20 million plus annually for like seven years. Heyward/Rasmus/Parra/Span/Fowler probably a around $12 to 15-ish for less years, and the rest cheaper than that, agreed? If anything, maybe Parra (and possibly Jackson) is a tweener between the second tier and the really cheaper options.

Looks like Ryan Sweeney did not even play last year, my bad. So get him on a minor league deal as an absolute last resort.

seawolf17 wrote: Put Alex Gordon in the mix? Only when he officially declines his player option (which to my knowledge he has not done, at least not as yet).

Frayed Knot wrote: Mex17 wrote: Fman99 wrote: That's really a rainbow of meh with that group. But would you agree that all of them are an improvement over Kirk Nieuwenhuis? Sure but that's not a real high bar right now. Kirk was essentially a 5th OF much of the season and, with Conforto now ready for prime time, would be 3rd in line just among LH-hitting OFs. But very few FAs who are at or near their prime and capable of playing CF -- even among the "non-superstar" part of your definition -- are going to sign a deal with their eye on snagging Kirk's 150 or so ABs, particularly not the likes of Heyward, Rasmus, Fowler, or Span who are going to command multi-year deals with a commitment that they'll be full-time players and not just platoon w/Juan vs RHPs. That wasn't really what I was trying to say. What I actually stated in my criteria is that we need someone who can platoon with Lagares or make him a bench player. I am under no delusion that Heyward, Rasmus, Fowler, or Span would sign with a team to be a platoon player or a 5th outfielder and I would not dismiss pursuing them because I have penciled in Lagares for 500+ ABs due to him having the starting CF job uncontested (or because Nieuwenhuis has a guaranteed job in the major leagues). In my ideal situation (which includes Herrera taking the 2b job by the horns and a Uribe re-signing to go along with a significant outfield signing), my dream 2016 bench would be Plawecki, Lagares, Cuddyer, Flores, and Uribe.

Centerfield wrote: I'm sorry my observation invokes desperate prayer. I'm responding to a statement from Transmonk, and my response is rooted in reason. I think the idea that answers should only come from the outside and dramatic offseason transacting and not be the result of years of building doesn't hold up. And I think harvesting from the fruits of those years of building isn't "doing dick." OE: Nonetheless, I expect there will be transacting and nothing I wrote should imply advocacy for or a prediction to the contrary. The Mets just played 2 games with their head up their ass. It doesn't take much to invoke desperate prayer from me these days. I agree we can hope to get some improvement over the course of the year from Conforto, d'Arnaud, and hopefully a healthy Wright. And that is fine. But if it's March, and Sandy is using this logic as a justification for why he did not replace the production lost from Murphy and Cespedes I'll fucking lose it. Everyone is entitled to harvest the fruits of your player development. That's good. But it's not going to be enough. We need to replace the thunder that we are likely to lose. Last winter the Mets were a cleanup hitter away from putting a great team on the field. They failed. They signed Michael Cuddyer and hoped to get away with it. That move, not surprisingly, was not enough. It wasn't until they got a real cleanup hitter that they became NL Champions. Now he's likely gone. He needs to be replaced. Or retained.

Fman99 wrote: That's really a rainbow of meh with that group. But would you agree that all of them are an improvement over Kirk Nieuwenhuis?

So the seven guys that I listed plus Cespedes, Upton, Rasmus, and Heyward total 11 options to add to four solid outfielders that we already have. Given that there are 30 teams in MLB, that gives us about a 34-35% chance to land one, no?

It's also possible that I have a bias against Heyward because he did not turn out to be the mega-star that he was advertised as and left him off for that reason. That's my bad. It would be great if he can play center.

Rasmus was not on the list I used (from Cot's). Power but low average tells me he is Duda-esque streaky.

I think that Parra, Fowler, and Span are the top three here.

Shinjo and Kaz Matsui memories make me skeptical.