Centerfield

Edgy MD wrote: Gwreck wrote: But it is also a fair observation that they did not have a World Series caliber team going into spring training 2015 and it took big in-season acquisitions to get there. It may be fair, but it's certainly debatable. I don't think Gwreck's point is reasonably debatable.

Yikes. .642 OPS. 34 years old. Wilmer please.

The latest buzz is that the Cubs are in on Heyward. They've already had a good winter in picking up Lackey and Zobrist. If they add Heyward to that team that won 97 games....

I'd be happy with any of the three. But my preference order is Heyward, then Upton, then Cespedes.

The QO is the real killer for me. I'd be find with giving Desmond a short-term deal. I think he has good upside, and if he sucks we can move Flores/Reynolds/Cecchini in. But you don't want to give up that draft pick for a short term commitment. It's tough.

FK hits the nail on the head here. This is kind of what I was alluding to in my Ricco post. After years of watching Alderson masterfully speak and say nothing, it's shocking to see how blunt they are in this short Ricco era. I mean, yesterday Terry Collins was talking about where to bat Zobrist in the order. It's shocking that are so open about not having any Plan B. And I can't imagine why on Earth you destroy any leverage you have by speaking openly about how much you want a player. Crazy. I was thinking last night that the Mets must have thought all along that they would be the only team willing to go 4 years for Zobrist, and never expected the Cubs, or any other team, to match their offer.

Edgy MD wrote: I like Walker's general consistency and reliability, as well as his being younger than 34. This. I guess it all depends what they want for 1 year of him. Nimmo? Sure. More than that is tough to commit. I don't know. I'm kind of excited to see what Dilson Herrera can do. I don't know why but I feel like he is going to be a terrific player.

Pivot, regroup, call it what you will. Their initial move did not pan out. Option 2 was a 450 foot bomb into the second deck. Last winter, the Mets pursued Cuddyer. The easy move. The safe move. He signed. It turned into dick. In July, the Mets tried another small-balls move. Gomez is a nice player, under team control. But he doesn't hit for power. Doesn't give you the thunder in the lineup. It didn't work out. They traded for Cespedes instead. And suddenly we absolutely mashed our way to a division title. Now, this winter, the Mets again tried to lay up. Play it "safe" with Zobrist. It didn't happen. What will they do now? Pussy out and try to justify Gerardo Parra? Or go big again. We'll see.

And by the way, if after the Flores trade fell through, Sandy came to the stand and talked about Gerardo Parra and Asdrubal Cabrera, everyone here would have properly rioted. Not Ben Grimm. He might have harumphed and then went to sleep.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, I was making reference to the Gomez-Flores-Cespedes thingy. Exactly. The middling, economic move fell through. So instead, the Mets went for the big guy and rode that all the way to the World Series. Do it again. In fact, go get the same guy. And if not him, Upton. And if not him, Heyward.

Now it's going to be really interesting. I found myself wondering what would have happened had Cuddyer taken the QO and spurned the Mets last year. They would not have been allowed to take the easy option and would have been forced to either spend money, get creative, or admit failure. Now that Zobrist, the easy out, is off the table, I wonder what they will do. Public pressure will be big to make a big move. Do they do it? Do they try to sell us on Cabrera and Parra? We'll see.

Fuck Cabrera. Go get Heyward you assholes.

I think I got it all figured out. Last winter Sandy had a great plan in place. Jeffy wanted Michael Cuddyer. Sandy breathed a sign of relief when Cuddyer received the QO. Made him an offer that was less money per year, thinking Cuddyer would reject it. Cuddyer accepted. Fucked up Sandy's whole plan. Sandy vowed to never make the same mistake again. In July, Jeff similarly handcuffed him. "No rentals" he told Sandy. Sandy made the deal for Gomez, but smart man that he is, saw a problem in his medicals. Set up the deal. Watched it die. Waited for the fallout and panic to set in. May or may not have convinced Familia to groove that pitch to Upton. Despair overtakes Flushing. Jeffy finally caves. Sandy gets Cespedes. The guy he wanted all along. This winter, Jeffy comes in and say "Hey how about Ben Zobrist?" Sandy says, "the guy who is 35 and not a difference maker?" "I like him", says Jeff. Sandy tells Ricco to adore him in public. Kill our leverage. Sandy knows Zobrist will want to reunite with Maddon in Chicago. He tells Ricco to mention names like Asdrubal Cabrera as our plan B, then watches as the deal falls apart and panic sets in. Gets the public outcry he needs to move the Wilpons off their budget constraints. Signs Upton AND Heyward. Drops mic. Wins World Series.

EXACTLY. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME PITCHING STAFF AND WE GET THEM CHEAP FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS. IT IS A FUCKING CRIME IF WE DON'T GET SOME FIRST-TIER OFFENSE AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS WINDOW. (And I realize you are one of the ones that understand this.)

Great work Greg. Bravo!

Let's hope so. If Zobrist gets $20 million per, you'd have to think Cespedes would warrant $30 million. And Heyward will get a billion per season.

Let's add to it: "Sucks at opening giant champagne bottles. To the point it starts to get uncomfortable and even his biggest critics start rooting for him out of pity."

Lefty Specialist wrote: Supposedly 4 years, $80 million (presumably from the Nats) is on the table. If so, I'll take my chances with Dilson Herrera. Holy crap. That is crazy money for a 35 year old.

Better than: ZOBRIST OR DICK. IT WILL MAKE YOU SICK.

Joakim Soria to the Royals to aid a clearly needy bullpen. 3 year deal.

bmfc1 wrote: I'm OK with the Mets making decisions for baseball reasons (obviously). They made lots of good decisions in 2015. I'm not OK with the Mets making decisions for monetary/Madoff-based reasons. After 7 home playoff games, all of the extra tickets sold in August and September, the increase in season ticket holders, merchandise, et al., it's time to put those excuses to bed. We were told "if you show up, we'll spend money." Fans showed up so do what you said. Why don't they want Heyward? Is it because of money or a baseball reason (e.g. they don't need a corner OF'er)? If Todd Frazier is available, then why don't they want him? Is it because they can't find a position for him or they don't want to add a big contract? I hope that they aren't planning on "staying close" again until July and making another big deal because there is not guarantee that they will, in fact, "stay close" and if so, if a Cespedes will be available. Exactly. Not to mention that Michael Fullmer has already been traded, and so further moves like this deplete the farm system more. (Which hurts the philosophy of scouting and development.) Incidentally, Ricco also planted the seed of trading Niese. Who just happens to be our most expensive starting pitcher...

Edgy MD wrote: And folks complained about Alderson's doublespeak and playing close to his vest. Well, this is what plainspeak looks like. Right? I wonder if Sandy is pissed off someplace about how many cards were shown last night.

Ceetar wrote: I don't feel like arguing about these players again, but I will say this I wouldn't take anything a (Mets) official says publicly about their plans. Especially when it's John Ricco acting as a proxy. That's a fair point. And I considered this. Maybe this is Ricco just acting coy. Except that there is no benefit to stating you are out on the outfielders. First off, if you were serious about signing them, you would have had contact with their agents. And so they would know you were full of shit if you said otherwise. Secondly, a statement like this actually hurts your chances with Zobrist. If I am Zobrist's agent, I read this and say: "Hey Ben. You are their only chance to save face this winter. If you don't sign with them, they are stuck trying to justify Asdrubal Cabrera. No way you take less than four years." In fact, saying the exact opposite helps them. John Ricco: "Look, everyone knows we are linked with Zobrist. But we can get that production from Cespedes or Heyward too. We can go a lot of different directions here." And you can say this even if you don't really mean it. Ricco's words are designed to have one effect. Dampen fan expectations. And it's done at the last possible moment, before the winter meetings, as far as possible from the sting of the WS loss.

Anyway, the point is that the owners are fucking us over. John Ricco is telling us before the winter meetings, that the owners have handcuffed them so don't expect dick. Wilpon promised that he would spend money once the fans showed up. Which, by the way, is a dick move to begin with. You don't put the onus on the fans asswipe. You put the product out there first. But in any case, because of the brilliance of his GM, they fielded a winner, went to the World Series, brought in tons of revenue for the club. And now Wilpon is saying "Yeah, about that. See, I was just kidding. Still no money. Sorry." And it's one thing to suspect it. It's another to hear stated so flatly. I guess the rest of you guys knew all along that this would happen. I guess I was the idiot who thought that they might actually make good on their word. I don't know. Fuck these Wilpons. Fuck them with a fucking spoon.

I don't argue with that. Cespedes certainly seems like the type of guy who is likely to see a drop in production because of the way he plays. But Zobrist is a guy who is likely to see a drop in production because he's 35 years old. And while it's not likely that the Cespedes dropoff would happen for the next 3 years, the Zobrist dropoff could just as easily happen tomorrow.