Centerfield

It looks like Qbert snakes on his tie.

I remember that. And despite hitting an IPHR somehow LOBin still managed to strand 2 runners.

d'Kong76 wrote: It's not the same without our camp counselor. Agreed. Come on back Edge. I promise to be less douchey.

Probably my fault.

Definitely a concern. But you'd like to think that in this day and age, the Mets would be smart enough to keep smart people in charge. I thought the plan all along was to have either Ricciardi or Depo step in once Sandy retired. Both are good lieutenants from what I hear, but both had underwhelming success when they were in charge with other clubs. So I guess I'm not all that broken up to see Depo walk. Plus, for as famous as he is, the jury is still out on Depo's scouting prowess. Conforto was terrific last year, but we have to wait and see on his other draftees. Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith etc. Not to say they are busts, but we just don't know yet. Plus we have to see if his era delivers 9th and 13th round hidden gems like deGrom and Murphy.

"You know, I spend some time in the hospital, and I come back and find that we've signed Cabrera and De Aza. Clearly I need to not take so many sick days." (Sandy Alderson's office. JP Ricciardi, John Ricco and Paul DePodesta scurry in. Alderson sits at his desk, both hands on his forehead, looking down) Alderson: Someone want to explain this? Ricco: About Cabrera, yeah, that's on us. We read your memo and we um, missed the part about not signing him if we got Walker. Ricciardi: The memo, it was double sided. And usually, they're not double-sided, I mean, why not make it just two pages, then everyone can see... Alderson: What about De Aza? What the fuck guys? Ricco: Well we were just following your orders. That conference call, you said "Sign De Aza". Alderson: (slamming fist) Are you kidding me? I didn't say "Sign De Aza"! I said "Find Piazza". We're supposed to retire his number. Ricco: Right. Got it. That makes more sense. We were wondering, in what circumstance, would De Aza be appropriate... Ricciardi: It was Paul's idea. He made us do it.

Magglio Ordonez is also "linked" to PED's in that rumors say he bought his way out of Canseco's book.

FK called this way back. I didn't want to believe it. Didn't want to believe that a big market team is handcuffed by a $24 million contract spread out over 5 years. But I guess it is what it is. Well it wasn't just the Lagares contract I was talking about. My point was that we ended the season with 3 OFs under contract for 2016 (4 prior to Cuddyer's retirement) whom they intend to play full-time (Granderson), mostly full-time (Conforto), and at least half-time (Lagares). So when the early off-season lists to the great baseball Santa were asking for top-shelf OFs (Hayward, Upton, Cespedes) I was merely shooting down the idea that any of those guys were going to come here as platoon players whether it was as a L/R platoon or as a positional platoon (this spot one day, that spot the other). I said that importing someone like that would need to be instead of one of the incumbents rather than in addition to. I was fine if someone wanted to work out a FA import in conjunction with a trade but those if/then deals get more complicated and less likely, particularly since you'd be importing someone but losing your best 2015 offensive player in Grandy (which would negate much of the benefit); or trading Conforto (not happening); or selling low on Lagares which would, yes, bring his contract into the equation, but then also make the import have to be a CF, something that would eliminate Upton and, from what we heard, also Cespedes. And, yes, all this assumes that such moves were even monetarily possible in the first place. Right. I know it took some time for me to grasp during our initial discussion, but I think I eventually picked it up. Where I disagreed with you was: 1. I thought the Mets would not let the Lagares contract stand in the way. A star FA bat would command full playing time, so Lagares would have stood to lose at-bats. But I figured it would be fine since we all know Lagares will get plenty of chances anyway, with 2 left handed corner OF's, and inevitable injury. And in a worst case scenario, I figured the Mets wouldn't let this relatively small contract prevent them from making a move big move. 2. I thought the Mets would be willing to platoon Granderson and Lagares in some way. Both players are signed long term, but their numbers call for a platoon. 3. I thought Heyward would have no problem switching between CF and RF. You were right on the first two. Which makes the third one irrelevant.

Zvon wrote: Also, De Aza makes even more sense to me in this scenario. Right? If you think about it from this perspective, a De Aza type is the only guy that makes sense. Playing this out a little further, the Mets went into the offseason intending to upgrade at 2B, and downgrade in CF and then try to justify it as a wash. (We know better, but this would have been the party line). That is why it had to be Zobrist. Only Zobrist represented an upgrade over Murphy. But Zobrist doesn't work out. The Mets are, however, able to pull off the Walker trade. It makes a ton of sense. Walker for Niese is a great fit for both clubs and it's a financial wash. The problem is, as far as talent, it's also a wash. (This is part of the reason Murphy was not seriously considered, he's not an upgrade over himself.) So if you stay the same at 2B and downgrade in CF, then it's hard not to admit that you have taken a step back. And so, as crazy as this sounds, the Mets, having solved their 2B dilemma in a cost-efficient way, suddenly found themselves standing there in Nashville with money to spend. But you still need to upgrade the offense. How? The OF is, as we mentioned, set. Catcher is fine. First, second and 3B are all accounted for. The only position left is SS. What can we do? Andrelton Simmons is already off the board. And doesn't give you any offense anyway. Ian Desmond is out there. But he's a big risk, was worse than Flores last year with the bat and costs a draft pick. The only option is Asdrubal Cabrera. He's not much of an upgrade, but he's still an upgrade. We can sell this. $18.5 million? Totally do-able. They sweep up Cabrera that same day. De Aza is signed. He's perfect. Good numbers against righties. Not good enough that the fans will clamor to have him play full-time. Soon they will sign a RH bat to replace Cuddyer. Get some bullpen guys. Sign Bartolo. And that's your offseason folks. Key words to justify the winter? Flexibility. "Raise the floor". There weren't many good fits. It's just good enough that enough fans will buy it.

Part of the justification when Cabrera was signed (I think it was ceetar) was that he added depth and flexibility. One of those "raise the floor" type of guys designed to take away at-bats from the Campbells of the world. So to that end, it is relevant. I speculated then, and have seen confirmed today, that Kelly Johnson can raise the floor in those at-bats (and in fact raise it higher than Cabrera) for a fraction of the price. (1/9 at the end of the day). The other part of the justification was "We needed to upgrade SS." To which I snarkedly reply "Then why didn't we?" Much of the talk this off-season has been "raise the floor" versus "star player". My point here was that if you raise the floor with cost-effective moves like Kelly Johnson, it doesn't have to be an either/or. You can raise the floor, and bring in a star. All for the same money. But whatever. It wasn't going to happen for the reasons cited in the other thread. What's done is done. Maybe Cabrera can find some of the old magic. He's only 4 years removed from hitting .273, with 25 HR's and a .792 OPS. And at only 30, there's no reason he couldn't do that again. So here's to hoping.

The entire off-season plan of the Mets is coming into focus now. The Mets didn't upgrade the outfield because they never had any intent to upgrade the outfield. And the reason for that is the money committed to Juan Lagares. They are intent on giving him his chance. But they knew that it would be foolish to just run him and his .650 OPS out there. So they looked for a platoon partner that is good enough to give them a boost in production, but not good enough to take his position. That's why we have De Aza, and not Cespedes, Span or even Gerardo Parra. We have been handcuffed this entire off-season because of the extension they gave Juan Lagares in the spring. That made second base the only place they could have upgraded, which explains their unabashed pursuit of Zobrist. Had they gotten Zobrist, they would have cited to him as an upgrade over Murphy, and that would have been their justification for the downgrade in CF. But it didn't happen. And that's why they are scrambling and hiding behind rhetoric. FK called this way back. I didn't want to believe it. Didn't want to believe that a big market team is handcuffed by a $24 million contract spread out over 5 years. But I guess it is what it is.

Yes, I'm going backwards. Though I did mention Kelly Johnson way back when. I couldn't definitively state then that the Mets botched it, since there was a possibility that KJ's market value had somehow risen (my theory makes no sense if he signed a 2 year, $20 million deal). But now that we have the numbers, I'm pretty firm in my belief here. And I get why they felt the need to upgrade SS. It's just that if you're going to upgrade, do it better. I mean, if you can't get a great hitter, as JCL said, at least get a guy who can field.

The Giants have a great track record, but this and the Samardzija deal are just head scratchers to me. Was any other team even offering 2 years on Span?

Frayed Knot wrote: With the infield pretty much covered [Wright / Tejada / Flores / Cabrera / Walker / Duda - and possibly even the odd appearance from which of Plawecki/d'Arnaud isn't donning the tools that day] any bat they'd be looking for would be in the OF where Lagares is the only RH among them. Thus, even though K. Johnson can play a corner spot, I think they would been more likely to consider him there if he weren't strictly a LH hitter. The infield is not covered if the Mets didn't sign Cabrera. Which is what Vic and I are trying to say. If there is no Cabrera, there is room for Johnson. Think about this. Asdrubal Cabrera's contract is more than nine times that of Kelly Johnson. But Johnson plays more positions, and is the better hitter. The only thing that Cabrera brings to the table over KJ is the ability to play SS, and he doesn't even do that particularly well. How valuable is that one skill on a team that already has two shortstops, and another guy at AAA (Reynolds) waiting in the wings in case of injury? Is it worth the difference between $2 million and $18.5 million? Not a chance in my book.

Sandy Alderson makes a public appearance. Defends Mets' spending: http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2016/01/sandy_alderson_says_hes_getting_better_disputes_no.html First off, glad he's feeling better and is able to work. All criticism or praise aside, will be wishing him the best. Secondly, I feel like the Wilpons have definitely handcuffed him again. He is trying to justify this winter, marking the return of Sandy DoubleSpeak: "It's not as if we're not looking to improve the team and if possible, in significant ways, but it has to make some sense in terms of how these pieces all fit," Alderson said. "Even if you go back to the trade deadline, we were trying in many ways to fit a square peg in a round hole. We talked to a number of clubs about players who were going to play right field, left field. How do we improve, and even if it's not the perfect fit, does it still make some sense? Well, for two months, three months, it may make some sense. For five years, six years, it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to do that. So if we had the right fit, if we had the right healthy player in the right position, it might be a very different story for us. "The idea that we're not investing in this team, I think, is really misplaced and sort of tied up in the populism involving Cespedes." It's not about Cespedes Sandy. It's about passing up everyone. There was an incredible amount of talent all available in this amazing free agent class. We watched it all go elsewhere while we squandered money on middling players. That's why this part, in particular, just infuriates me. So if we had the right fit, if we had the right healthy player in the right position, it might be a very different story for us. Here are some of the guys who are free agents or were made available via trade: SP: Zack Greinke, David Price, Johnny Cueto RP: Aroldis Chapman, Joakim Soria, Darren O'Day 1B: Chris Davis 2B: Ben Zobrist SS: Andrelton Simmons, Ian Desmond 3B: Todd Frazier LF: Yoenis Cespedes, Carlos Gonzales (rumored) CF: Jason Heyward, Dexter Fowler, Denard Span RF: Justin Upton, Alex Gordon In other words, there was either an elite (or very good) player available at literally every position except for catcher. Makes me want to pull my hair out. At the end of the day, I think the Mets opted not to upgrade the OF because of the money committed to Juan Lagares. Just unbelievable.

All kidding aside, if I owned the Mets*, I would tell MLB and New ERA that we have no interest in wearing their 9/11 design hats. It may work for other clubs, it doesn't work for us. Since they design these hats each year, I'd tell them that the Mets hat should have no Mets content at all. They can design them after the first responders' hats. And they can have the MLB logo or New Era, or whatever, so long as they are primarily, first responder hats. We will cooperate with them to sell these hats on our website, at the ballpark, etc, so long as every cent goes to 9/11 funds or to the city agencies themselves. And I would make this very public every step of the way, so as to force their hand. And if MLB and New Era refused to comply, I'd send my ballplayers out there with the first responder hats and dare them to tag us with a forfeit. *I feel like this topic is worthy of its own thread

Zvon wrote: dgwphotography wrote: So, thanks to Zvon's terrific suggestion, I'm now a bit disappointed that he's going in with a Mets cap ... lol, I hear ya. Damn, I should have thought of that 2 weeks ago and we could have started a campaign. Because it really would have been perfect imo. Yes, I've come to think it would trump a Mets cap and say so much without saying anything. I do suppose there will be a blurb about his post 9/11 homer on the plaque, but a first responders cap would say so much more. The players wearing those caps at that time had such a great impact on me. I thought the impact was huge til Mike hit the homer, then I realized what a HUGE impact really was. The most emotionally charged home run I have ever seen. Perfectly said. Which is why when the CPF raises enough money to buy the Mets, the first thing we are going to do is reinstate this tradition on 9/11 and dare MLB/New Era to pull our players off the field.

Nymr83 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm certain it will happen, particularly because Piazza has been such an ally of the Wilpons all these years, careful to have never said a bad thing about the organization and outspoken in his desire to identify as a Met. Cynical me thinks this is all to some degree calculated or bought and paid for on some level, but at least it gives fans what they want. I think 'calculated' is probably more accurate, he knows and the Wilpons know that staying friendly with each other is in both their best interests as far as good PR and future business opportunities. This is probably right. I think the Wilpons missed an opportunity last summer to retire his number and say "fuck you" to the Hall of Fame. Some may disagree about whether the number should be retired, but most Mets fans want this, and I think it could have been a great way for the Wilpons to endear themselves a bit.

I think someday the team insignia will become a thing of the past. Players move around too much these days. And it looks like that trend will only continue. One thing that irritated me about the coverage was the speculation that with Piazza having gotten in, that the door has been opened to Clemens and Bonds, because "there have always been rumors swirling about Piazza". This is bullshit. There is a huge difference between Piazza (completely unsubstantiated speculation) and Bonds/Clemens (actual evidence that would be admissible in Court). I wish Al Leiter had been more vocal about pointing out this difference. The whole steroid thing being tied to Piazza is completely unfair. You shouldn't be looked at with suspicion simply because you look like you might be on the juice. So much has been exposed these last ten years. That Piazza has been clean each time should count for something. Look, in the end he may have used steroids. I don't know. I think that steroid use was much more rampant than most ever thought. And if he did, then he can deal with it then, but he should not have to defend against those whispers simply because he was really strong.

Nice coverage on MLB Network tonight. Really great to see Mike get the honor. Also cool to see Leiter on the panel that interviewed him. Could do without the "Piazza as a Dodger" highlights though. It's like stumbling upon old pictures of your wife when she was dating someone else.

I don't want to re-hash all the arguments of the past month again. My point in this thread is that KJ would have been a good, cheap "raise the floor" type of move.

I'm mainly advocating Johnson over Asdrubal. But also pointing out that if they wanted to, they could have freed up more money by going economic at second base (cheap, giving their best prospect a shot and "raising the floor"), which would have allowed them to reallocate the limited resources they have to bring in an impact hitter in the OF.

I think the Mets really missed the boat here on Kelly Johnson. If you are going to "raise the floor", this is the guy you need to bring into the fold. His career OPS is .755 (Neil Walker, by comparison, is .769). Consistent hitter, has some pop, can play many positions. At 1 year, $2 million, is exactly the type of deal that can help a ball club. Had some big hits for the Mets, including the aforementioned Strasburg HR. He's a better hitter than Cabrera. The only thing Cabrera does that Johnson does not is play SS (and he doesn't do that particularly well). With Flores, Tejada and Reynolds all available, I don't know that you needed that skill set. When I talked about how limited resources were misallocated, this is what I was talking about. On Edit: He could have platooned with Herrera or been insurance had the Mets chosen to go that route. Then Cabrera's $18 million and Walker's $10 million could have been used for an impact player for the OF.

That's right. Lost both rentals from last year. So they took a hit too.

4 years, $72 million. That means the Royals lost Zobrist, but are otherwise intact no? Plus they fortified their bullpen.