smg58

="metirish"]davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. Marquis' ERA+ last year (99) was comparable with those of Perez (100) and Maine (101). I might try to be ambitious here, offering Anderson, Feliciano, and a second-tier prospect for Marquis and Mike Fontenot. We'd take on more money, but we'd fill two needs and keep the Cubs from revisting sending DeRosa to the Phillies if the Peavy deal gets resurrected. But Schoeneweis for Marquis would be a perfectly acceptable fallback.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3j9ndsa9]Yeah, Cabrera sucked ass. I'm pretty sure history will eventually reveal that his proven suckiness vs. Gomez' theoretical goodness was the real thing that prevented the MFYs from trading for Santana. They spun it to say they loved Ian Kennedy -- right.[/quote:3j9ndsa9] For some reason, that's still not obvious to everybody. Gomez is better than Cabrera on defense alone, even if he never hits much at this level. So you'd have to think that Hughes or Kennedy alone was worth significantly more than the rest of the Mets' package (the Yankees' offers never included both of them) to think that the Twins passed on the better offer. Then again, while Hughes and Kennedy lost some luster last year, at least their stock didn't plummet to oblivion like Deolis Guerra's seems to have. G-Fafif Dec 11 2008 12:11 PM Re: MFYs trade Cabrera for Kablammeron ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":z7cqzc1i]Also the Phils got C Ronny Paulino from Pittsburgh for a minor leaguer.[/quote:z7cqzc1i] Ronny Paulino hit a long home run off Feliciano in 2006. I extrapolated that to mean he's been a Met-killer on the order of Expo Endy, but no, actually, it's the only one he blasted. It's still going, however. willpie Dec 12 2008 12:33 PM I had the impression that Paulino was good and I wanted him for the Mets, but looking at his stats, I can't remember why. metirish Dec 17 2008 06:56 PM From Kat O'Brien's blog ] Cameron-Cabrera talks off It sounds as though the Yankees will not be getting Mike Cameron to play centerfield next year. That could change, of course, but I just got off the phone with Brewers GM Doug Melvin. He said: "Nothing new. At this point, I don't anticipate it's something that we would (do). ... I haven't talked to Brian (Cashman) since last week." Melvin said they had originally looked at moving Cameron to gain some flexibility on the pitching front but that is no longer such a need. Said Melvin: "I like Mike Cameron a lot. He means a lot in our clubhouse. He's a very positive presence. He's a good player. He's played on a lot of playoff teams -- maybe more than anybody. He's got a lot of intangibles. (A trade is) not something that we're pushing at this time." The Yankees obviously aren't pushing it either, given that Cashman and Melvin haven't spoken since leaving Las Vegas last week. Rockin' Doc Dec 17 2008 07:36 PM I always liked Cameron and still do. I'm glad that it appears he will be spared the indignity of being forced to join the dark side. metirish Dec 18 2008 09:47 AM Apparently this now opens the door for Manny to play the OF , a part of me hopes this circus comes to town. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:48 AM It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow. Fman99 Dec 18 2008 11:13 AM ="metirish":51v3v590]Apparently this now opens the door for Manny to play the OF , a part of me hopes this circus comes to town.[/quote:51v3v590] If, by "town," you mean the Bronx and not Flushing, then sure, bring it on. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 11:16 AM Eff that. I'd bring Manny to Shea for two years and $50 million. Centerfield Dec 18 2008 12:25 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1tuzaza8]It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow.[/quote:1tuzaza8] Nope. That distinction belongs to any outfield featuring Roger Cedeno in centerfield. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 01:18 PM ="Centerfield"]="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow. Nope. That distinction belongs to any outfield featuring Roger Cedeno in centerfield. "Wait... what?"

="Benjamin Grimm":3f8bo9dv]So they lure Sabathia away from Milwaukee, and then ask the Brewers for money? Yeesh![/quote:3f8bo9dv] I second that yeesh! The Yankees really have to be kidding. Especially since they'd be getting a solid major-league centerfielder for a solid AAA one. Edgy DC Dec 11 2008 10:55 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1chrqgc4]This is the first time I've ever cheered for the Brewers in my life, I think.[/quote:1chrqgc4] First time I ever rooted for Ken Rosenthal. smg58 Dec 11 2008 10:58 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3j9ndsa9]Yeah, Cabrera sucked ass. I'm pretty sure history will eventually reveal that his proven suckiness vs. Gomez' theoretical goodness was the real thing that prevented the MFYs from trading for Santana. They spun it to say they loved Ian Kennedy -- right.[/quote:3j9ndsa9] For some reason, that's still not obvious to everybody. Gomez is better than Cabrera on defense alone, even if he never hits much at this level. So you'd have to think that Hughes or Kennedy alone was worth significantly more than the rest of the Mets' package (the Yankees' offers never included both of them) to think that the Twins passed on the better offer. Then again, while Hughes and Kennedy lost some luster last year, at least their stock didn't plummet to oblivion like Deolis Guerra's seems to have. G-Fafif Dec 11 2008 12:11 PM Re: MFYs trade Cabrera for Kablammeron ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":z7cqzc1i]Also the Phils got C Ronny Paulino from Pittsburgh for a minor leaguer.[/quote:z7cqzc1i] Ronny Paulino hit a long home run off Feliciano in 2006. I extrapolated that to mean he's been a Met-killer on the order of Expo Endy, but no, actually, it's the only one he blasted. It's still going, however. willpie Dec 12 2008 12:33 PM I had the impression that Paulino was good and I wanted him for the Mets, but looking at his stats, I can't remember why. metirish Dec 17 2008 06:56 PM From Kat O'Brien's blog ] Cameron-Cabrera talks off It sounds as though the Yankees will not be getting Mike Cameron to play centerfield next year. That could change, of course, but I just got off the phone with Brewers GM Doug Melvin. He said: "Nothing new. At this point, I don't anticipate it's something that we would (do). ... I haven't talked to Brian (Cashman) since last week." Melvin said they had originally looked at moving Cameron to gain some flexibility on the pitching front but that is no longer such a need. Said Melvin: "I like Mike Cameron a lot. He means a lot in our clubhouse. He's a very positive presence. He's a good player. He's played on a lot of playoff teams -- maybe more than anybody. He's got a lot of intangibles. (A trade is) not something that we're pushing at this time." The Yankees obviously aren't pushing it either, given that Cashman and Melvin haven't spoken since leaving Las Vegas last week. Rockin' Doc Dec 17 2008 07:36 PM I always liked Cameron and still do. I'm glad that it appears he will be spared the indignity of being forced to join the dark side. metirish Dec 18 2008 09:47 AM Apparently this now opens the door for Manny to play the OF , a part of me hopes this circus comes to town. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:48 AM It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow. Fman99 Dec 18 2008 11:13 AM ="metirish":51v3v590]Apparently this now opens the door for Manny to play the OF , a part of me hopes this circus comes to town.[/quote:51v3v590] If, by "town," you mean the Bronx and not Flushing, then sure, bring it on. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 11:16 AM Eff that. I'd bring Manny to Shea for two years and $50 million. Centerfield Dec 18 2008 12:25 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1tuzaza8]It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow.[/quote:1tuzaza8] Nope. That distinction belongs to any outfield featuring Roger Cedeno in centerfield. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 01:18 PM ="Centerfield"]="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow. Nope. That distinction belongs to any outfield featuring Roger Cedeno in centerfield. "Wait... what?"

An upgrade on one of our two lefties would be nice. Without Vargas or Collazo, we're short on lefties in the pipeline as well. Otherwise, no complaints.

I'm not sure what Reed and Green do for us. Like I said yesterday, the Mets could use another righty reserve outfielder, and Reed is left-handed. Green can give innings, but he's not that good. I'd have said no dice to those two and either kept Vargas or Smith, or tried to get Seattle to send more players to Cleveland so that we could get Asdrubal Cabrera or one of their catching prospects. But K-Rod and a healthy JJ Putz on top of our pen make for a nice haul. Both are better than Wagner, much less the rest of our sorry staff from last year. Chavez is making $2M, and Heilman would likely get $1.5M in arbitration, so we're not really taking on that much (at least not this year) with Putz.

I'd be worried about trusting workhorse innings to a guy coming off a serious injury, but when he's healthy Putz is as good a reliever as anybody. And the Mets do not appear to be giving up anybody they might miss. The Mets need a righthanded reserve outfielder more than they'd need Chavez. I'd make sure JJ gets a thorough physical, but if he passes, I'm for it.

="Edgy DC":1occaizm]="smg58":1occaizm]I agree with Frayed Knot that the Mets and Heilman would both be better off separated at this point...[/quote:1occaizm] When did he post that?[/quote:1occaizm] I guess I meant Rockin' Doc. So much for posting early in the morning. My apologies, Doc. Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:46 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2008 12:49 PM BP's rumor mill has the Mets (and Cards) inquiring about Pirate reliever/closer Matt Capps[/url:x49legz2] Check out them walk totals! HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 12:48 PM ="themetfairy":1c7rc2k6]I have an iron-clad no-trade clause. You'll have to pay me off big time to get me to renegotiate![/quote:1c7rc2k6] I'm the utility guy nobody wants in a trade. I can be released, waived, or sent to Crane Pool triple A at any time. I'm just happy to be in the big leagues. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 01:07 PM ="Frayed Knot":35lzm99m]BP's rumor mill has the Mets (and Cards) inquiring about Pirate reliever/closer Matt Capps[/url:35lzm99m] Check out them walk totals![/quote:35lzm99m] Often when I have a vision of a guy as a Met killer, I find I'm way off. This time, not. Given up no runs and only 1 hit lifetime vs. em (7.2 IP). For somne reason he didn't pitch vs. us at all last year. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:16 PM Capps is a cool guy to be looking at. One of my goals for 2009 is to avoid the annual Disastrous Heartrending Loss to the Pirates. Gwreck Dec 10 2008 01:35 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":1i8wym47]="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1i8wym47]All them Seavers look alike. Pretty sure he meant Rock N. Dock.[/quote:1i8wym47] That's the main reason I'm not crazy about the forced avatars. I tend to glance to the left side of the screen to see who's posting, and when everyone's avatar looks the same it gets very confusing.[/quote:1i8wym47] That's why I don't believe in avatars. attgig Dec 10 2008 03:13 PM there's talk about smoltz interested with us. I would love to bring him in as a setup guy, but I'm guessing he wouldn't be up to that. I would also like to see pedro back as the spot starter/long reliever, but again. not sure if he'd be up for that. otherwise, it would be great to revisit heilman & someone for Street, or showenstein/jackson, though I'd prefer street because it seems like there are more sure options for the rotation in the free agent market. But yeah, I would love to see the mets putting out one year, close to closer offers for fuentes, smoltz, hoffman, and other closers who are jobless, to see if any of them would be setup guys. I know Minaya loves Cordero, and I'm kinda expecting him to sign, but I hate how he's coming off injury. Also, what's happening with Isringhausen? isn't he a FA? MFS62 Dec 10 2008 08:52 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3cwukcsb]I hope not. If I get traded to Kansas City I'm just going to retire as a fan.[/quote:3cwukcsb] But what if the Mets can get a second baseman for you? Take one for the team, man. Later Gwreck Dec 10 2008 10:04 PM Rodriguez Putz Schoeneweis Feliciano Sanchez Stokes Green smg58 Dec 11 2008 06:01 AM An upgrade on one of our two lefties would be nice. Without Vargas or Collazo, we're short on lefties in the pipeline as well. Otherwise, no complaints.

="Vince Coleman Firecracker":26rmr4vx]Last year, the Yanks reportedly refused to seriously enter the Santana bidding because of a commitment to pitching prospects. Going outside of the organization to sign Sabathia, while not a complete surrender of that commitment, is an admission they don't have the same faith in their prospects they had last year. As a result of this, they now have committed more money to a pitcher that's about equivalent in talent, a little younger and a lot riskier. I guess I'm really saying that I like Santana a lot more than Sabathia, and I'm soooo glad the Mets, rather than the MFYs, wound up with him.[/quote:26rmr4vx] Except that Sabathia was not the one who needed surgery immediately after last season. I don't think I'd have guaranteed CC a seventh year either, but don't assume Santana is a safer bet over the duration of their contracts. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 11:25 AM Hey, just because Sabathia didn't have any surgery done, doesn't mean he couldn't have used some. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 11:26 AM ="smg58":2ksav5fb]Except that Sabathia was not the one who needed surgery immediately after last season. I don't think I'd have guaranteed CC a seventh year either, but don't assume Santana is a safer bet over the duration of their contracts.[/quote:2ksav5fb] I absolutely assume Santana is a safer bet over the duration of their contracts, and I don't think I'm wrong in doing so. Does that mean he'll definitely out-perform Sabathia over their contracts respective durations? No, but if you had to pick which one will out-perform the other, which would you pick? Gwreck Dec 10 2008 11:41 AM ="Edgy DC":2vb3wfno]While I agree, I have to say that, while the Yankees have the classickest looking uniform[/quote:2vb3wfno] Detroit home whites? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 11:56 AM They certainly can land some punches against the champ. metirish Dec 10 2008 11:57 AM ="Edgy DC":2bxdqcr5]Hey, just because Sabathia didn't have any surgery done, doesn't mean he couldn't have used some.[/quote:2bxdqcr5] You thinking gastric surgery for weight loss? Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:01 PM Neither one (Santana or Sabathia) has had any significant injuries to date. CC is a year yonger but also has more mileage on his arm (about 200 IPs) due to Johan's Rule 5 history which kept him on the back of the bench for a while. CC signed thru 2015, Johan thru 2013 w/an option for 2014 -- meaning that if the option kicks in the contracts go through the same age. So any speculation about longevity and injury comes down to usage - Sabathia logging more innings more often and if one wants to draw a conclusion about body type. btw, that "In case I hate NY" opt-out clause for CC after 3 years/$69mil is apparently accurate metsguyinmichigan Dec 10 2008 02:52 PM ="Gwreck":d6umr4hw]="Edgy DC":d6umr4hw]While I agree, I have to say that, while the Yankees have the classickest looking uniform[/quote:d6umr4hw] Detroit home whites?[/quote:d6umr4hw] You're both kidding me, right? Mets home pinstripes with the blue cap. End of discussion, unless you want to point out that BOTH the aforementioned Yankee and Tigers uniforms, the logo on the cap is different than the one on the chest. In the Tigers' case, dramatically so! dgwphotography Dec 10 2008 04:28 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1qa74opt]="Gwreck":1qa74opt]="Edgy DC":1qa74opt]While I agree, I have to say that, while the Yankees have the classickest looking uniform[/quote:1qa74opt] Detroit home whites?[/quote:1qa74opt] You're both kidding me, right? Mets home pinstripes with the blue cap. [/quote:1qa74opt] As long as they lose the orange button. seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 05:16 PM Who let StevieJeets steal Edgy's password? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 09:33 PM Deserved, maybe, but I said "classickest," not "bestest." In my idyllic futureworld everyone wears Mets home pinnies.

I'd like to see at least two more guys brought in. I agree with Frayed Knot that the Mets and Heilman would both be better off separated at this point, and that at least one of their LOOGY's needs to go. Revisiting the Heilman/Feliciano for Street deal is certainly an option, but there might be others too. Like I said yesterday, I wonder if the Red Sox would part with Manny Delcarmen to get Schneider. I also wonder if the Yankees would look at Endy or Ramon Castro as a fair price for Brian Bruney. Either of those moves would actually free payroll if they're doable (although we might wind up needing a catcher). I'd ask the Giants what they'd consider a fair price for Sergio Romo, who's been lowered a few notches in their pen with the signings of Affeldt and Howry, or what the Dodgers would want for Hong Chi Kuo, who was great in long relief last year. Speaking of the Dodgers, there's a real chance that they'll non-tender Takaishi Saito. He'd have to pass a physical, to be sure, but he could be a steal if he's healthy most of the year. The back of the bullpen looks fine to me, especially since we look to have enough talent at AAA this year (Kunz, Parnell, Stoner, Vargas if he doesn't make the team to begin with) to cover our bets.

I wonder if Manny Delcarmen could be had for Schneider. I'd be curious to know which of the Indians' catchers they'd be willing to deal, and for what. I'm not sure there's a good match there, but the Indians have wealth at that position and there's no harm in asking.

[url:s1atm7z6]http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1320852,CST-SPT-cub09.article[/url:s1atm7z6] Apparently, the Peavy-to-Cubs saga is approaching resolution. I can live with the Cubs getting Peavy, but there are rumors that the Phillies might be helping them make the deal in exchange for Mark DeRosa. I don't care how hurt Chase Utley is, the Phillies don't need a second baseman more than we do.

I don't think any closer will agree to come at a discounted price until mid-January, and I have no problem with waiting that long if we get a good guy for the right price. Other needs (two starters, two set-up guys, a second baseman, etc.) might require more urgency, though.

We scored just as many runs as the Phillies did last year, despite the ballpark differences. Our offense didn't beat us, pitching did. We could even afford a slightly worse offense than we had last year, if we make good decisions on the pitching front. The one thing all the available outfielders have in common (Manny, Dunn, Ibanez, Dye, Young) is that they suck defensively. If the Fielding Bible is a reliable measure of defensive worth, our current outfield defense is better than people realize in left, and outstanding in center and right. The only one of those guys I'd consider still a significant upgrade when defense is factored in is Manny. Do we have question marks at the corners and first base? Yes, but there's more unambiguous room for improvement at other positions and the bullpen, a big vacancy in at least one starting rotation spot, and a finite amount of resources. It may be hard to move Castillo, but given his (and Easley's) offensive and defensive output last year, it shouldn't require much of an expense at all to produce a clear improvement at second base. Catcher is trickier. Laird's numbers have been up and down, and were likely enhanced by the ballpark in Texas, so it's not clear that he would have been an improvement over Schneider. The Indians have a glut of catchers both at the top level and in their system, but I'm not sure what we have that they'd want. (They've been looking mainly for relievers.) Plus we'd need to find a taker for Schneider.

Heilman won't be enough, but apparently the Rockies would bite if we threw in Feliciano. That still seems like a good offer to me, but I don't see the harm in waiting for a bit and seeing what our other options are.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Manny and a few other free agents decide to go with the big arbitration amount for a year and then try the market again next year, under hopefully more favorable economic conditions.

I'd vote yes for the pitching equivalent of Manny, because I think the need is greater there.

You can't fault the Giants for being aggressive when everybody else is cautious. Affeldt is a very nice pickup for two years. Howry I'm not so sure about; they already have a deeper pen than people realize, and Sergio Romo is a guy to watch. (PS I wonder what the Giants would want for Romo.) As for Renteria, it depends on which version shows up. But even the 2008 version is an upgrade at the position, so they don't have a whole lot to lose. I certainly wouldn't fault them for going after Sabathia, either. You get the sense he's waiting for somebody to at least try and compete with the Yankees.

I see no point in dealing for a closer if the market is so glutted with options that won't cost players. Keep in mind that Putz is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a significant injury and an off year.

Vazquez is a lot like Ollie -- the talent of an ace, the tendency to alternate between looking really good and really awful, and the numbers of an OK 4th starter. He'll give you more innings, though. From my experience having him on my fantasy team last year, Vazquez seemed to give up hits in bunches -- not unlike certain Mets relievers -- and when he was off, he was OFF.

Mike Hampton appears to be headed back to Houston, for $2M plus incentives. Perhaps he concluded that Houston had the best school system all along.

You could also make a case for 05-06. They got more from Wagner than they did from Pedro, ultimately. Plus Delgado and LoDuca for good prices. Seo for Sanchez worked out really well for four months, and it's not like Seo has done anything since he left here. Benson for Maine and Julio (who ultimately got cashed in for El Duque) worked out better than we had any right to expect. Plus Chad Bradford and Darren Oliver were assets to our pen. For that stretch of time at least, Minaya could do no wrong.

The Mets pen the last two seasons is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Randolph tried hard not to make specialists out of his relievers, and the strategy backfired because that's all that guys like Schoeneweis and Feliciano could really be. Manuel opted to play by the numbers, which worked for a while but not forever. The bottom line: the pen was poorly constructed. You need multiple guys who can give you a significant quantity of innings, and we didn't have them. Heilman's implosion certainly didn't help, but if you buy Edgy's point 3 then a guy can only give you 80+ quality relief innings for so many seasons without some sort of hiccup, and he should not have been taken for granted. The other guy Minaya was counting on for innings going into this year was Jorge Sosa. That's it. Keep in mind that Sosa pitched 20 innings during his first month in the pen (late July to late August) in 07. His arm fell off in September, and he didn't recover for the 08 season. The rest of the Mets pen was too specialized and/or ineffective for anybody to take on a workhorse's role. I understand the appeal of demanding more from the starters, but the fact that Santana had his knee operated on immediately after the season tells me he was asked for more than he could really handle. The Mets don't make a playoff run otherwise, but we really want the luxury of not having to work Santana that hard this year. I agree with Edgy's comment about redundancy, and I think we're in a good position in that regard going into this season. You could have Stokes, Sanchez, Stoner, Parnell, Kunz, Vargas, plus maybe one or two minor-league contract signings competing for spots 5, 6, and 7 in the pen. That looks good to me. I think Vargas could fill Darren Oliver's role if given the chance. And it assures that Buffalo will be well stocked if and when a need comes up. Joe Smith should be fine for another spot. He's still young, and I see no reason why his performance against lefties can't improve. That tells me we have three holes to fill: a closer, obviously, and two workhorse/set-up guys. Heilman could bounce back, but I think it's becoming clear that he won't get the opportunity here even if he wanted it. And I think Feliciano and Schoeneweis need to be moved along. Certainly one of them has to go, at any rate.

Waiting might not be a bad strategy in this market. Other than the Mets and Angels, it's not clear who has both the need for a closer and the money to spend for a high-priced one. So somebody will become available for a really good price eventually.

The Mets can't seriously be equating Heilman with Huston Street. Can they? Honestly, the Rockies' counter-offer looks perfectly fair to me, if not still generous to us. I hope either that the report got a detail or two wrong (possible), or that the Mets know they can get more for Heilman and Feliciano than Street (I'd be very pleasantly surprised).

If Murphy can post an OBP in the .400 area, he doesn't need to hit more than 15-20 homers to be a plus leftfielder.