MFS62

We didn't have access to the Globe back then, and ESPN was a dream aborning. So I never had a chance to read the Gammons of that vintage. And if this is a typical example, that is a shame.But you are right, Gammons bashing emerged as a national sport when he started issuing "rumors" as though they were gospel. I even read recently that some GMs "leak" weird trade rumors to him, just to relish in the flak he'll get when they don't happen.But my basic impression of him still stands. He knows:The Red Sox very wellThe AL East wellThe AL fairly welland he has no idea of what's going on in the National League.Maybe if the Braves had stayed in Boston...But I have to give him credit if this is a typical example of what he used to be as a writer.Later

Didn't want to open up another thread.Its around 9PM on Friday. (No, I'm not leading into a Billy Joel song, so relax)One met farm team has been rained out.I've seen the scores of every other team in the organization (Mets through Brooklyn).NONE OF THEM has scored more than two runs, and two teams (I forget , maybe three?) are being shut out.This had been an epidemic in the organization for several years. Why can't they fix this problem?I don't care if the have to fire every scout and batting coach in the organization.FIX IT!Later

We don't have to go that high.If Boston gets Looper they can return Curt to the rotation. That strengthens them in two spots. If we give them a starter (not Benson) and maybe Jacobs, we should be able to get Schopach (and maybe OBP machine Youkilis) back.Later

]I don't know when the Astros get or got the pick the Mets owe them.Its my take that draft picks can't be "futires" like in basketball or football. They must be taken/ used in the next draft after the transaction .And, of course we all know, they can't be traded.Later

I have a feeling that Joe will soon be passed on the organization chart by last year's draft pick Aaron Hathaway. He is reportedly a very good - excellent defensive catcher, and is beginning to look good with the bat.(Neither has much power)Later

]Could you imagine a single injury (a bizarre collission) taking out all of Arroyo, Shoppach, and Youkilis? Yes, on a wind-blown infield popup.This should probably be in a separate post)What scares me is Omar's penchant for making BIG deals/ trading name players. Soome have been good, some haven't worked out so well. I'm not nominating him for MENSA just yet.Later

Edgy, You can try to figure it out from here:http://www.thebaseballcube.com/teams/team.asp?Name=BJ&N=DMultiple picks in a round means an acquired (sandwich) pick and missing numbers means they lost a pick. This also shows who they got with the acquired picks.The only thing missing is the names of the players drafted by other teams to whom theylostthe picks.Later

Sorry, Mole, I disagree on Maris. Maybe he belongs in a "special achievement" wing. But he played in an era when if you didn't at least come close to a .300 BA, you had to buy a ticket to get into the Hall. His .270+ BA doesn't cut it for me. He had two excellent years and was otherwise an average player.Later

]Hell, I'd just claim him on waivers and eat the money. Seawolf, that's sorta' what Buster Olney said this morning on ESPN radio. he said that if the Mets ate the money, they wouldn't have to give up much (if anything) back to the Sox for him.Later

Name dropper.Later

You folks are right. This was mental gymnastics to the Nth degree. He must be really trying hard to retain his job with ESPN. Unfortunately, he has not learned from actual experience as a GM. A ten year old could probably come up with more equitable and rational deals. Later

This was a transcription of an interview with Steve Phillips on ESPN yesterday.It actually makes sense in some perverse way.Comments?Later*******************************************************************************As Mets fans choke on their coffee and say, ''Oh no! Not Phillips making Mets trades again! No!'' ... Bear with me, try to follow .... Victor Zambrano to the Giants for Alphonzo. Cliff Floyd to the Cubs for Corey Patterson and Glendon Rush. Then, the Mets spin Patterson to the Devil Rays for Danys Baez. The Mets THEN take Mike Cameron, Edgardo Alfonzo, Danys Baez and Glendon Rush and trade them to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez. The Red Sox get two right handed bats to replace Manny, they improve defensively at 3B and LF, they add pitching depth with Rush and they get a closer with Danys Baez. The Cubs get the bat they are looking for without any substantial impact to the major league team. And, the Devil Rays get a young high ceiling prospect in Patterson -- the kind of player they like. And the Giants get pitching depth and free up 3b for Pedro Feliez once Barry Bonds comes back to play. It works for everybody! http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=8767

Ok, youze forced me to relook at Gwynn's numbers. He gets a strong YES from me. mea cupla.And I said yes to Biggio "in very small letters" I was looking for someone to sway me one way or another.Later

I've posted the way I consider players for the HOF before. Using those criteria, here's how I view the folks on your list.:(Caps for ones I heartily would support or deny)Gil Hodges -I'd say yes if you could do it for player/ manager combined. Unfortunately, you now get voted in based on one category, and Gil doesn't quite measure up in either category.Bruce Sutter - yesGoose Gossage - maybeJim Rice - a close no (he's better than Tony Perez, but I didn't think Tony belonged either)Bert Blyleven - yesAndre Dawson - close no (see Rice)Tony Gwynn - close noMark McGwire - maybe, He was his generation's Harmon Killebrew - a one and a half tool player. They're so similar as players that without the steroids, I'd say if Harmon is in, he goes in, too.Cal Ripken Jr. - YESRickey Henderson - YESEdgar Martinez - NO a one tool playerTim Raines - maybe - I wouldn't get heartburn if he got in.Roberto Alomar - yes (sigh)Mike Piazza - YESIvan Rodriguez - let's wait a few years to see what his expected aging catcher decline does to his overall game and career statsRafael Palmeiro - YES (but five years ago I would have said no.Sammy Sosa - yes, hard to argue his placement on the all time homer listBarry Bonds - yes (but I'd abstain unless I had a gun to my head)Roger Clemens - YESRandy Johnson - yesPedro Martinez - let's wait to see how many career wins he ends up withGreg Maddux - YESTom Glavine - If he gets in, then Jim Kaat should, too.John Smoltz - an Eckersley hybrid. I don't know.Trevor Hoffman - no, unless he's holding hands on the podium with Lee Smith on induction day.Mariano Rivera - yes - he may be the forst reliever who breaks through the glass ceiling.Alex Rodriguez - YES - he gets in on what he's already done, and he just turned 30. And at that age, is way ahead of the current record holders in hits, HR, R and RBI at the same age. He may end up being the greatest player of all time.Ken Griffey Jr. - noLarry Walker - I'd say yes, but the park adjustment police will keep him out.Jeff Bagwell - wait and see. He could go to the AL and add many more numbers to his resume.Manny Ramirez - yes. How can you keep the greatest hitter of his era out?Craig Biggio - yes (in very small letters)Frank Thomas - no - eight great years, and started out his career like a house on fire. But the ast few years have left a bad taste.Jeff Kent - yes

While we're waiting for a real deal to be announced, this is something Joel Sherman of the NY Post wrote a few years ago. I had to re-type it because it was an early edition space filler and the link was gone before I had a chance to copy it. So I didn't include the reasons he gave for each move (rebuilding, salary budget, etc.) and may have gotten some of the players wrong. You might get a kick out of some of the players mentioned.Enjoy.Later*********************************************************New York MetsTrade: Pedro Astacio, Jeromy Burnitz, Roger Cedeno and Aaron HeilmanObtain: Hank Blalock, Ben Grieve and Denny NeagleAtlanta BravesTrade: Vinny CastillaObtain: Todd JonesPhiladelphia PhilliesTrade: Placido Polcano, Joe Roa and Chase UtleyObtain: Luis Rivas and Paul ShueyFlorida MarlinsTrade: Andy Fox, Mike Redmond and Michael TejeraObtain: Terrence Long and John McDonaldMontreal ExposTrade: Michael Barrett, Josh Karp, Fernando Tatis, Jose Vidro and $5 millionObtain: Tony Alvarez, Mark Bellhorn, Kelvim Escobar, Shea Hillenbrand, Mike Redmond and Mike WoodSt Louis CardinalsTrade: Garrett Stephenson and Fernando VinaObtain: Glendon RuschHouston AstrosTrade: Brian Hunter, Henri Stanley and Jose VizcainoObtain:Chicago CubsTrade: Mark Bellhorn, Juan Cruz, Kyle Farnsworth and Corey PattersonObtain: Carlos Beltran, Fernando Tatis and $5 millionCincinnati RedsTrade: Ruben Mateo and Gabe WhiteObtain: Sidney PonsonMilwaukee BrewersTrade: Glendon Rusch and Eric YoungObtain: Michael Barrett, Garret Stephenson, Michael Tejera and Bubba Trammell Pittsburgh PiratesTrade: Tony Alvarez, Tony Bautista and Scott SauerbeckObtain: Carlos Lee and Ruben MateoArizona DiamondbacksTrade: Miguel BatistaObtain: Jason Grimsley and Joe RoaSan FranciscoTrade: Marvin Bernard and Felix RodriguezObtain:Los AngelesTrade: Joey Cora and Paul ShueyObtain: Mike Bynum, Brian Hunter and Jose VizcainoColorado RockiesTrade: Todd Jones and Denny NeagleObtain: Vinny Castilla, Roger Cedeno and Kevin JarvisSan Diego PadresTrade: Mike Bynum, Kevin Jarvis and Bubba TrammellObtain: Jeromy Burnitz And Kyle FarnsworthNew York YankeesTrade: Sterling HitchcockObtain: Melvin Mora and Gabe WhiteBoston Red SoxTrade: Shea HillenbrandObtain: Felix RodriguezToronto Blue JaysTrade: Kelvim Escobar and Orlando HudsonObtain: Juan Cruz and Ted LillyBaltimore OriolesTrade: Melvin Mora, Sidney Ponson and Willis RobertsObtain: Juan GonzalezTampa Bay Devil RaysTrade: Ben GrieveObtain: Jay PowellMinnesota TwinsTrade: Bobby Kielty, Rick Reed and Luis RivasObtain: Miguel Batista, Joey Cora and Fernando VinaChicago White SoxTrade: Tony Graffanino, Carlos Lee and Kelly WunschObtain: Pedro Astacio, Jose Bautista and Josh KarpKansas City RoyalsTrade: Carlos Beltran and Jason GrimsleyObtain: Mark Ellis, Orlando Hudson, Corey Patterson, Brian Tallet and Chase Utley Cleveland IndiansTrade: John McDonald and Brian TalletObtain: Placido PolcanoDetroit TigersTrade: Shane HalterObtain: Tony Graffanino Seattle MarinersTrade: Mike CameronObtain: Rick Reed and Kelly WunschOakland AthleticsTrade: Mark Ellis, Ramon Hernandez, Ted Lilly, Terrence Long and Mike WoodObtain: Marvin Bernard, Bobby Kielty and Jose VidroAnaheim AngelsTrade: Scott Schoenweis and Scot ShieldsObtain: Andy Fox and Scott Sauerbeck Texas RangersTrade: Hank Blalock, Juan Gonzalez and Jay PowellObtain: Mike Cameron, Shane Halter, Aaron Heilman and Sterling Hitchcock

]Flash has started 203 of his 671 gamesBy my math book, that still means that over two-thirds of his appearences were in relief. I guess that qualifies as "mostly". Later

Interesting that Tom Gordon has so many strikeouts, since he has been mostly a reliever during his career.And Smoltz lost a lot of Ks by going to the bullpen for a while.Edit: And I shudder to think of how many pitches it took to those 1877 batters for Leiter to strike them out. Probably a five digit number.Later

]intercostal strainCan one of our medical mavens please explain whatthat is?I've only heard the term intercostal in sentences followed by "waterway".Is it some kind of urulogical problem?Later

Feeling overly sensitive (paranoid?) today.Thanks for the clarification.But I really did laugh at the porcine turn of phrase.Later

Edgy DC wrote:I didn't get nasty.I know. I changed that word with my edit. Colorful metaphor, though.Later

And my point was that there are huge time gaps in the examples you gave. (And reminding you that Kent was the product of another organization and was arguably the most productive hitter of the bunch). As I mentioned, I have been frustrated that there has been no steady stream of players ready to take regular spots in the lineup over the years. And that is something I am not happy about, pig-in-slop or not.You mentioned what has been more frustrating to you. I disagreed. No need to get sarcastic about it.Lateredit: changed one word.

="Edgy DC"]MFS, did you clip that from the Dallas Morning News or another fan site?Since it gave the reference, I clipped it from another site. There was no link provided.Later

From Rotoworld:]Alfonso Soriano - 2B - TEX At one point yesterday Alfonso Soriano got a call from his agent telling him to pack his bags and that he was traded to the Mets. Only moments later did he receive another call telling him that the deal hit a snag. The Rangers want pitcher Aaron Heilman and AA pitcher Yusmeiro Petit, but the Mets want to substitute Victor Zambrano for Heilman. Regardless, it's looking more likely Soriano will be headed to the Mets this weekend. Jul. 28 - 1:21 pm et Source: Dallas Morning News "Later

Edgy DC wrote:Frustrated perhaps less with the Mets inability to produce better rookies than Ty than their historical unwillingness to give many rookies regular jobs out of camp.Edgy, I feel the opposite. I have been very frustrated with the inability of the Mets to scout, sign and develop position players over the years. You know, the kind of players who can step right in and contribute immediately Unfortunately, the types (levels) of players who they have brought up generally had to be slowly integrated into the lineup to get comfortable because of a lack of developed or natural talent. Or, if immediately inserted into the lineup, were unable to meet the challenge of playing every day.LaterLater

I like his bat. But from what I've read about Huff, he is not a good defender at first, and that is why he was moved to the corner outfield spots.But if Cammy gets traded, Huff would be a nice addition to fill Mike's right field spot.Later