stevejrogers

Kid Carsey wrote: Ya know it's bad when Seo piles on, SJR, and Rockin' Doc chimes in. No its bad when Professor Edgy takes out his red pen...

Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd, injuring a young girl From http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1341703 ]and in the last straw for the Mets, inexplicably threw an M-80 at a group of fans at Dodger Stadium in 1993, injuring two children and one woman. He was sentenced to 200 hours of community service. Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them Ironically Sabes coming clean (no pun intended) is mentioned in this Times article the same day that Coleman was arraigned for the Dodger Stadium incident. I could have sworn one was injured, but I'll own up to that as shoddy research. Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat I'll give you the shoddy edit job, but I did throw in the "may or may not" caveat since Mitchell has denined the incident took place, and Gooden actually denies telling it to Klapish when they were writing the book. There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well. Doc: http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/domesticviolencenb.html ]Sports and Courts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Gooden was arrested in Tampa, FL for allegedly punching his ex-wife in the face, police said. The former All-Star pitcher was charged with domestic violence battery and was being held in jail without bond. Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said the dispute occurred at the home of Monique Moore, Gooden's ex-wife. "She threw a handset from a telephone at him and he punched her in the face," McElroy said. "She called 911. We responded. There was a bruise forming on her face and he was arrested." (Editor: Sounds like they both should be locked up for violent acts towards each other. However, it appears that if you physically attack first, or if you're a woman, you get to go free to provoke again.) Straw: http://www.mitchellmoss.com/oped/96-10-21-nyobserver.html ]Mr. Strawberry, who hit three home runs in the recent series against the Baltimore Orioles, has been lost for most of the 90's. He was treated for substance abuse, charged with spousal abuse and convicted of tax evasion for failing to disclose income from autographing baseballs and appearing at baseball card shows. And books have been written chronicling both of their battles with substance abuses. A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States, and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection. I only said a case can be made by those who have a certain polticial agenda with his getting an American paycheck being the basis for it, nothing factual about this one. Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets This is a fact, Mota was suspended first, then the Mets signed him. The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo More conjecture based on the same conjecture that Met fans use against Jeff Bagwell, Luis Gonzalez, ect, ect, ect. I mention that because that is the way fans tend to rationalize things, "oh our guys don't do those things." There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch" Do you want me to go through the fight in the Houston night club? The destruction of the charter after the NLCS? And all the rest of the incidents in that book that are well documented? Milledge: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/422389p-356546c.html ]When the Mets drafted Milledge in 2003, they knew he had some problem at school, something about getting in trouble for having sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend. Milledge was expelled from Northside Christian School in St.Petersburg, Fla., and agreed to enroll in a juvenile arbitration program to avoid prosecution. The baggage was enough to scare off several teams, and Milledge, projected as one of the top three picks in the draft, fell to No. 12. Soon after Milledge was drafted, the Daily News reported that he had been accused of having sex not only with his girlfriend, but with 12- and 13-year-old girls as well. For that reportedly consensual sex, he and the girls were expelled from Northside. Milledge and his parents, who met with a Daily News reporter three years ago to discuss the allegations, denied he had sex with the younger girls. But a source with the Pinellas County State's Attorney's office, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The News at the time that if Milledge had not agreed to the arbitration program - with the approval of the girls' parents - he would have been prosecuted as a juvenile for molestation. "Our crimes against children detectives unit was very serious about pursuing this case, and they referred charges to the state's attorney's office," Pinellas County Sheriff's spokeswoman Marianne Pasha told The News at the time. 'They felt strongly there was some victimization involved.' " Consensual or not, and the fact that it appears to be the only legal trouble Milledge has on his record, it is still a statutory rape charge on his record. Church: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/20/AR2005092002093.html Seems like his comments were inflamatory enough to warrant an apology (which was needed even if it wasn't inflamatory enough of course) and a strong reaction from the DC Jewish leaders ]Tavares acted following complaints from Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld, leader of an Orthodox Jewish congregation in Washington, who said it appeared that "the locker room of the Nationals is being used to preach hatred" and urged the club to distance itself from Church's remarks. Yes Rocker spouted off venomous words about people of sexual orientation and ethnicity, but at the same time you could say they are both rather simplistic people who made the mistake of showing their ignorance and black & white view of others. Rocker's mistake also was in that he just didn't know when to shut up. So where exactly are all the other mistakes and distortions that I made?

Edgy DC wrote: Threatening to murder his wife, Steve. A woman has every right to place that beyond the pale of her tolerance. You equate that with Alfonzo maybe taking steroids, based on your speculation. No, the point I was making is that all franchises, heck all forms of entertainment, have people who you root for that have skeletons of various degrees. I didn't even say any of the stuff I mentioned was on the same level, what I was saying is that the Mets have plenty of examples where non-fans can point to you as a Met fan and say "How can you root for..." My response to her, lost in what I got wrong with the specific cases, is that you root for the uniform if you truely are a passionate fan. Billy Martin once said he'd play Hitler and Mussolini if they could help his team win. Fans feel the same way. And you know how to reply to "How can you root for..." questions? Simple, you say that you don't root for that particular player. You root for the laundry. You root harder for the players who fit your particular image of what a player should be as a person. Perhaps you root hard for the day the POS is finally off the roster, or perhaps you root for that POS in terms of maybe, just maybe the setting that your team has may be the right setting to turn his life around for the better (maybe Bowden knows something here, maybe a Manny Acta type would be just the influence Dukes needs, who knows). To me its a superficial reason for dumping a team for another, even if you rooted for that team in the past. Or maybe her like for the Nats wasn't that strong to begin with, I don't know, I don't know her so obviously I can't say. But to me just because the Nats brought in a poor excuse for a human being, is not a strong enough reason to dump the Nats completely.

Which reminds me, he, Milledge, has been traded for someone who essentially has the same feelings about people who are different than he is as John Rocker, only he had the good sense not to ramble on and on, and on to someone doing a profile on him. No one here would ever want Rocker on the Mets right? Well the only reason he is in the indies is because his arm was too shot and his skills eroded, not because he is an ignorant POS.

Fair point MGIM, but no doubt Met fans have had the same "How could you root for..." questions about the players listed, and pretty much the majority of people listed that got booted were booted more so for baseball reasons (diminishing talent, salery dump, ect) as opposed to their off the field transgressions. Also I failed to list Roberto Alomar who is vilified by many because of the spitting incident years before he became a Met, never mind his horrid play as a Met. Earlier this year you essentially knocked Yankee fans for rooting for a POS over a decade after Mel Hall played his last game for the MFY when his transgressions were revealed. (to say nothing of Luis Polonia of the same MFY era, and to say nothing of MFY fans dislike of Hall because the way he treated Bernie Williams when Williams was coming up) So just because you can give answers to examples of Met transgressions, doesn't mean they are fair game for other fans to hate on the franchise, and therefore always see the acquisition of such players in the same way this woman is seeing the Dukes acquisition. Just so happens that she is a Nats fan. So would you do the same in this situation?

OlerudOwned wrote: Yeah, remember that time Milledge threatened to kill his girlfriend? That was nuts! Yeah I know murder threats and statutory rapes are quite different and it was one incident as opposed to a full rap sheet, but Milledge did rape an underage girl and one would suspect that the author of the letter would hold that against rooting for Milledge, even with it being the only known actual crime on his record.

Peter LaMotte, 78 Mets Physician 1962-1972

Come to think of it, I'm surprised she didn't reference Lastings Milledge's transgressions as another member of the "element" that she puts Dukes in. Hey, perhaps THATS the underlying reason for her conversion and she didn't want to put Milledge's name in because that would show how transparent her reason for switching to the Nats was!

Okay Audrey lets see; Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd, injuring a young girl Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well. A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States, and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection. Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch" ect, ect, ect... Granted one can make a case that Dukes' transgressions are worse than the ones listed, but she can't just drop a team because of one bad apple when you can look at any franchise's history and find players and employees worthy of scorn and can make non-fans ask you "How can you root for (insert Player X)?" Course the answer is to that is simple. Root for players (or singular player if you must) who to you represents what you think a player should be as a person. Not drop your loyalty at the drop of the hat because your team brought in a POS. Another way of putting it is, you root for the laundry, even if its dirty. So quite frankly, no you are not allowed back on the bandwagon! Oh I agree its hard to root for a POS, and it would be better once the POS is no longer on the team you root for, but can you say you really were much of a fan of the aforementioned franchise if you are just going to chance your fandom based on who the team acquires? Because, like I said, you are going to find it awfully hard, and it just may be impossible to find a team that doesn't have a single skeleton in their closet. That is just plain human nature.

WELCOME BACK HAIL!

Ironically, didn't Klapish admit to being a fan in The Worst Team Money Can Buy or was that just "Hey those 80s Mets were a great team to like" sort of thing.

I was about to say about that guy with the cell phone camera! Also the piping is incorrect, it was blue in the center with orange sides, like the text on the uniform.

I think that site either has a "war" with the MOFO or one of their members is a MOFO guy and most likely that person put the spoof up with intentions of posting it on the MOFO. OE: MacMets.com shows nothing, so probably it is more someone spoofing for internet fun. Question is, how did Seawolf find it? OE II: Another tell tale sign of its fakedom, there is no Scott Beck on MLB.com's staff apparently.

Untill the 2000 WS, omiT had the scrappy tag. After that it was crappy all the way. Jason Phillips probably belongs on this list.

="Vic Sage"](s)crappy = feisty, little guys who can't play but run and slide hard, hustle and are very "competitive". Were backman and dykstra too good to be scrappy? Then Ron Hunt was probably too good to be scrappy, too. so, lets see... who was that utility player from St.Louis we carried for a few seasons? He was definitely scrappy. I seem to recall a certain amount of scrappiness attached to Tim Bogar and Marco Scutaro. Bobby Valentine was a scrappy player. So was Billy Almond, as i recall. Who else? I seem to recall tons of promotional material (programs, yearbooks, videos, ect) extoling the scrappiness of Backman and "...the man they call 'Nails' on the Mets ballclub..." (quote Bob Murphy just before Lenny won Game 3 1986 NLCS) The Cardinal in question is "Super" Joe McEwing who was the Met who callers on WFAN and 1050 ESPN would call up and say "I LOVE THIS GUY, why don't the Mets play him more, he's the only guy that PLAYS HARD on this team" And there is the point when it comes to (s)crappy players, and probably why you can't recall the label on Dykstra and Backman. When things are going well for the team, the scrappy card isn't played as much by those who don't follow things closely or are too overeactional to short bursts of "hard nosed" play by bench players. In a bad season, the "(s)crappy" players get into a game, maybe do something that either helps cause a win or gets the Mets close to a win, that player is elevated in the eyes of that segment of fandom who is sick and tired of seeing the Mets play their "over-paid lazy fat cat" regulars and would prefer seeing the "scrappy" bench guys, even though there is a reason they are bench guys.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Selling scorebooks online is a lousy way to make cash. I don;t even want the scorebooks but if you'd like the scan and email the scorecards that would be cool. Yup it is, especially on ebay where for the most part its people looking for that bargain. Think that 1962 program is going to sell for whatever the actual book value is? While I've seen it listed for book value prices, I doubt it would get any bids other than professional dealers. I know, I've had several "cheap" postseason programs snipped from me from a dealer who sells them at actual book value. The value you would see at a memoriabilla show. Actually, that might not be a bad approach next time a show goes to the county center... I'll see about scanning the scorecards at some point

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Rogers you gotta donate that stuff to the Crane Pool Lending Library Or the MBTN Library? Dude I do need some cash though.

Kid Carsey wrote: Steve, unless you owe a bookie's strong-arm named Knuckles some dough -- I think you need to re-think your strategy. The description is vague, there's no mention of shipping costs (unless I missed it -- and just how do you plan on shipping 200 programs), you're going to pay through the ass if someone is dumb enough to bid on that in ebay sellers charges and in paypal charges if they send that -- you need to break things up and sell it little by little or find a dealer who may give you a bulk price (unlikely unless the stuff is pristine). Just sayin', good luck with it. Good point, plus breaking it up (years/decades) would be easier to get some photos in there

217 Mets programs from 1970 through 2007 Can be yours for a little over a grand! Uhhhh...maybe I ought to break it up between decades/years... Just getting out of the hobby, and yes the MFY s**t is going as well.

Frayed Knot wrote: ]Then my question is why? I've seen a lot of Schneider and I don't He keeps preaching the whole 'defense and will make the staff better' angle. And I keep thinking that he better be one helluvagood defensive catcher. Mark Healy suggests that he could be Grote good!

I want my MTV? I want my Maypo?

Patch will be a nice addition to the collection I wonder how much the 64-65 Worlds Fair patch goes for, I've yet to really see them on the market.

G-Fafif wrote: I like the confidence that September 28 is merely the final "regular season" game at Shea. Then again, after a whole year of "Your Season Has Arrived" as well has the incessant "Your Postseason Has Arrived" ads while the Mets were in midst of the biggest collapse in baseball history, I think the Mets marketing guys should tread VERY lightly on statements such as that.

Jeff Weaver Probably an AL version of Kris Benson, only with less overall success. Drafted in the first round by the Tigers in 1998, came up in 1999 and pitched with some degree of sucess with some dreadfull Detroit teams. He was part of a massive three team trade in July of 2002 that, at the time, seemed to be one of those "the rich GET RICHER" type of deals as Weaver was sent to the Yankees, although the Tigers eventually ended up with Jeremy Bonderman in the deal. Weaver's run with the Yankees though is a major con for the Mets to even consider him. The guy was yet another name to add to the Ed Whitsons, and Steve Trouts of the world. Do I even have to mention his implosion during the 2003 World Series? In what has to be more evidence that maybe there is such a thing as "The Curse Of The Metellenium" against the Yankees, Weaver wound up being traded for Kevin Brown! Even after moving to the NL, Weaver never quite regained whatever it was that made him a desirable talent in 2002, and has become essentially yet another mediocre starter just trying to keep the career going. While his brother Jered, in just two seasons, has seemingly surpased him in every way possible! Interestingly enough though, Weaver does own a World Championship ring, at the expense of the city that scourned him, and the city that drafted him and then sent him to the aforementioned city. Should the Mets get him? HELL NO! Not good enough to be considered a decent retread pickup, not to mention his failures in 2002 and 2003 are so fresh in the media's mind that even though he won't be in Yankee pinstripes, it would be hard for him to escape that past. Not to mention that the Mets have gone down this road quite frequently, and even if they want to still go down the road, there are more attractive hurlers out there than Jeff Weaver.

Yup, and again I swear Ben is really Reed Richards! Since the Brewers, Rangers and Nationals tend to be considered seperate than teams that just relocate but keep the name (Braves, Dodgers, Giants) I included them in the list.