Gwreck

This article (from Newsday) says that they are laying off three sports columnists[/url:2xiyol5c], but not "all." According to http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ , these are their sports columnists: Barbara Barker Jim Baumbach Neil Best Erik Boland Roderick Boone Ken Davidoff Bob Glauber Mark Herrmann Bob Herzog Johnette Howard John Jeansonne Greg Logan Wallace Matthews Steven Marcus Shaun Powell Anthony Rieber Tom Rock Gregg Sarra Tom Schlichter Arthur Staple Steve Zipay

Manny? Sure... ...if it's a one-year deal only ...if it doesn't limit our ability to spend on Texeria ...if it doesn't limit our ability to spend on pitching etc. In the middle of the lineup, he'd be tremendous... Reyes Murphy Beltran Ramirez Wright Delgado Church/Tatis Catcher

="Edgy DC":1kf4rwd2]Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir?[/quote:1kf4rwd2] All of their success was elsewhere, but I suppose that doesn't really matter when evaluating the quality of the pick. Those ones weren't too bad. HahnSolo Dec 04 2008 10:20 AM Boston Globe reporting that the Phillies have made an offer to Derek Lowe. No details of the offer, but apparently another team has also made an offer. [url:27icv0p0]http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/12/04/teams_starting_to_make_pitches/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Red+Sox+news[/url:27icv0p0] Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:24 AM Lowe may be the free agent I unwant the most this offseason. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:31 AM I read today that the Giants are mulling an offer to C.C. in the $100 million plus for five years range , he is from an area close to San Francisco. smg58 Dec 04 2008 10:33 AM I see no point in dealing for a closer if the market is so glutted with options that won't cost players. Keep in mind that Putz is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a significant injury and an off year. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:37 AM I hear you. But, as a trade-hater myself, I'm sure the Mets see the advantages of dealing as (a) not giving up draft picks, ( getting a guy at yesterday's salary rather than tomorrow's, and (c) getting a guy who is closer to the expiration of his deal, protecting them from having to pay for nothing in year four, like they are with Wagner. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:39 AM Numbers from Newsday regarding Fernando Martinez ] Martinez, who turned 20 in October, is looking impressive again in the Dominican Winter League after another injury-plagued season at Double-A Binghamton. Martinez was batting .323 with four home runs, 19 RBIs and a .382 on-base percentage in 28 games for Leones del Escogido. Compared with his .282 average for the B-Mets, along with eight homers in 86 games, Martinez appears ready for a breakthrough season DocTee Dec 04 2008 02:04 PM SF finally gets their man: Edgar Renteria, 2 years, $18.5 million Busy off-season for the G-men: Renteria, Howry and Affeldt and now, apparently, maybe Sabathia Frayed Knot Dec 04 2008 02:23 PM House-cleaning Pads deal rapidly-declining Khalil Green to the Cards Russel Branyan signs with Seattle John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:27 PM Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Tough couple of minutes for talented but enigmatic white shortstops. smg58 Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You can't fault the Giants for being aggressive when everybody else is cautious. Affeldt is a very nice pickup for two years. Howry I'm not so sure about; they already have a deeper pen than people realize, and Sergio Romo is a guy to watch. (PS I wonder what the Giants would want for Romo.) As for Renteria, it depends on which version shows up. But even the 2008 version is an upgrade at the position, so they don't have a whole lot to lose. I certainly wouldn't fault them for going after Sabathia, either. You get the sense he's waiting for somebody to at least try and compete with the Yankees. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You're really into Jack Wilson, aren't you. metirish Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":30uw5ppo]Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit[/quote:30uw5ppo] Don't go posting "Jackie Wilson Said " now. Valadius Dec 04 2008 02:49 PM Jack Wilson is the single ugliest player in professional baseball. soupcan Dec 04 2008 02:58 PM 'What you talkin' 'bout, Vlad?' Valadius Dec 04 2008 03:59 PM seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 05:15 PM Currently, yes. All-time, he's not even in the Top Ten. Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 05:30 PM Aren't you forgetting someone? Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 05:58 PM Johnny Dickshot is the only guy in the BB-r.com database with the nickname "Ugly." seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 06:42 PM ="Nymr83"]Aren't you forgetting someone? Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 08:06 PM theres no need to post a second picture of the guy... metirish Dec 05 2008 06:58 AM From the Snooze ] The Braves made their first proposal to Burnett Thursday, according to sources, offering him a four-year deal worth roughly $64 million with a vesting option for a fifth year based on the number of innings pitched. The Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles are still interested in Burnett, but the fifth-year option may be enough to put the Braves over the top. Good luck to them with that. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:19 AM How far away are the Braves from being a contender? From what I recall of last year, they have some doin' to do before I'm going to start worrying about them. In other Hot Stove news, SNY's Mets Hot Stove Report is going to air four (count 'em, four!) live shows next week from the winter meetings. Apparently they're expecting a lot of fast-breaking news, but it's possible that this might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again. Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:28 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":e413zzsl]This might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again.[/quote:e413zzsl] I think I missed that one. What happened there? Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:29 AM Sometimes I forget how old I am. The Al Capone thing was from before you were born, Val. Here's Wiki's article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone%27s_Vault Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:35 AM Wow. How did Geraldo Rivera maintain any credibility whatsoever after that? Not like Fox News has any credibility, but still. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 07:37 AM "The Mystery of Al Capone's Vault was a one-time live American television special broadcast in syndication in April 1986 hosted by Geraldo Rivera." One time? Somebody's forgetting Rivera's opening of the Andrea Doria vault. soupcan Dec 05 2008 08:01 AM I remember that - all the hype about the vault. Then, the vault is opened and Geraldo's looking inside and...... There's nothing there! Too funny. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 08:07 AM I remember a quote from Geraldo, years later, that went something like, "If only there was SOMETHING in that damn vault!" I was hoping the Wiki article would include that quote, but it didn't. He had major egg on his face for quite a while after that. It was, as soupcan said, very funny. metirish Dec 06 2008 05:54 PM Olney reports that Furcal turned down a take it or leave four year deal from Oakland worth $35 million-$40 million. What market does he think is out there for him? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:23 PM Last year's economy? seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 07:16 PM One of my favorite players on the move, as Ryan Freel and two prospects go to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez. metirish Dec 09 2008 07:18 PM My sources are telling me that the MFY's will better the Braves money for Burrnett and go the extra year. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:03 AM This, from esspin: ]Minaya: Mets interested in re-signing Pedro, plan to meet with agent The New York Mets are interested in retaining Pedro Martinez and plan to meet with the Dominican pitcher's agent, GM Omar Minaya informed ESPNdeportes.com. "We have interest in him. We're going to talk to his agent when we have the opportunity," Minaya said Tuesday, the second day of the winter meetings. Minaya said that he has not yet scheduled a formal meeting with Fernando Cuza, Martinez's agent, or Martinez. Martinez, however, said he isn't ready to start thinking about where he wants to play next season. "I've said it previously and I have said to my agents that they do not speak to me of contracts until January," Martinez said Tuesday. Martinez, 37, also likely won't decide whether to pitch for the Dominican Republic in next year's World Baseball Classic until he reaches a contract agreement with a major league team. The three-time Cy Young winner endured the worst season of his 16-year career in 2008. Martinez went 5-6 and 5.61 ERA in 20 outings and was affected by various injuries and personal problems. Why? Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 08:08 AM Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. If he's cheap (which I doubt) and if you could bench him if he stunk (which would be tricky), it's not a bad insurance plan. I don't think the answer to either of those ifs will work in the team's interest, though. DocTee Dec 10 2008 11:23 AM Alan Embree to Colorado, lessening their need for a LOOGY and kiboshing the proposed Heiman/Feliciano for Street swap. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 11:44 AM Well that's good for us in the sense that Omah was holding back on including Feliciano in the first place. Now he can throw in Duaner Sanchez instead and call it a dealeeeo. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 12:56 PM Rumor has it that the Mets and Dodgers are discussing Juan Pierre. (Seems to be coming from Fox Sports.) Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him. The Mets have a guy like that... Would the Dodgers have any use at all for Castillo? If so, then maybe the two teams could trade headaches. Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:58 PM I'd rather have Castillo than Pierre sharpie Dec 10 2008 01:04 PM Agreed. I'd hate to waste an outfield spot on a speed-only guy. Valadius Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM What the hell do we need Pierre for? We have a center fielder. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM Good lord, Juan Pierre and Pedro? Haven't they already met their quota of guys who suck? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:14 PM Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package. Other than that, he can revitatlize our long-since-interrupted Outfielders from Mobile, tradition, and maybe cancel some of the kharmic dept for trading Amos Otis. He puts the bat on the ball witout GiDPing. But he's looking a lot like a pinch-runner on the wrong side of 30. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:16 PM ="Edgy DC":1vw8dz0f]Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package.[/quote:1vw8dz0f] But if reports are true that the Mets don't want to venture too far over last year's payroll, I wouldn't want to add on his contract. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:17 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":g0bx2ilm]Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him.[/quote:g0bx2ilm] HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 02:36 PM I'm still on the negative side of meh with him. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 02:55 PM Well, you sure don't see me tossing my pom-poms in the air. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 02:58 PM Me neither. Pierre and Castillo made a nice pair on the 2002 Marlins, but that was a long time ago. Remember how they used to abuse Piazza? Almost unfair. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 03:00 PM What I wonder, though, is if trading Castillo for Pierre would make the Mets more willing to spend to upgrade at second base. It doesn't really make any sense, but it's possible that they might see it that way. (They'd still be increasing the payroll, but at least they wouldn't be paying Castillo to sit on the bench. And maybe they'd get something out of Pierre. Or at least, more than they expect from Castillo.) Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 03:40 PM Luis Castillo is a useful major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Juan Pierre is a useless major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Castillo is a below average second baseman who can't slug. Pierre's a terrible center fielder (or an average left fielder) who can't hit. Endy Chavez is a better player than Juan Pierre. Almost all major leaguers are better players than Juan Pierre. The one thing he can do is steal bases, and he's not very good at that. Here are his CS% numbers, per year, for his career: 01 27% 02 20% 03 24% 04 38% 05 23% 06 26% 07 19% 08 23% For is career, that's 25%, the break-even point. If he's even a little bit off his career average, he's a liability on the base paths. Pierre is exactly the kind of player you can't hand to a manager. He has a reputation as a good defender, a leadoff type hitter and, perhaps, a "winner." Managers give these kind of players way too many plate appearances and innings in the field based on reputation while the team's performance suffers. bmfc1 Dec 10 2008 07:37 PM From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez. metirish Dec 10 2008 07:38 PM Can I get a WOW? metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM From KR 9:32 p.m. � Source: Tigers to aqcuire Edwin Jackson The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. Tampa Bay, with David Price on the way, had a surplus of starting pitching. Jackson, 25, was 14-11 this year with a 4.25 ERA. In exchange the Rays get a 24-year-old, left-handed-hitting corner outfielder who hit 12 homers in 242 at-bats. -- Ed Price metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM ="bmfc1":3tnm13me]From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.[/quote:3tnm13me] Just so this is not lost on the last page. Gwreck Dec 10 2008 07:55 PM Putz is extremely valuable but won't come cheap: $5 million for '09 and $8.6 million club option for '10 (with a $1M buyout). The other 3 players combined make less than $4 million. I think we'd miss Chavez a lot. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 07:56 PM I'd love to know how he would feel about going from a closer to a setup guy. Would hate to bring him in only to have him griping about his role. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 08:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2008 08:12 PM Chavez isn't going to help us if he hits like he did last year. I love him and all. Meantime I think three guys are all you wanna surrender for a single reliever, especially one coming off a poor season like Putz (edit - poor for him). seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 08:09 PM Heilman, Chavez, Carp for Putz? Yes. Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Joe Smith for Putz? No. smg58 Dec 10 2008 08:36 PM I'd be worried about trusting workhorse innings to a guy coming off a serious injury, but when he's healthy Putz is as good a reliever as anybody. And the Mets do not appear to be giving up anybody they might miss. The Mets need a righthanded reserve outfielder more than they'd need Chavez. I'd make sure JJ gets a thorough physical, but if he passes, I'm for it. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:30 PM davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. One thing about these meetings I find interesting is that every year various baseball types go there looking for a gig , from prominent free agents to former players, I read that Bobby Meacham is there selling himself as is Lee Mazzilli. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:57 PM Minaya on getting more offense. ] "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." smg58 Dec 12 2008 04:49 AM ="metirish"]davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. Marquis' ERA+ last year (99) was comparable with those of Perez (100) and Maine (101). I might try to be ambitious here, offering Anderson, Feliciano, and a second-tier prospect for Marquis and Mike Fontenot. We'd take on more money, but we'd fill two needs and keep the Cubs from revisting sending DeRosa to the Phillies if the Peavy deal gets resurrected. But Schoeneweis for Marquis would be a perfectly acceptable fallback. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 05:07 AM I'm not that enamored with Marquis. MFY fan, you know. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 06:26 AM All this talk about Marquis and Pierre makes me think Omar loves Frenchies. bmfc1 Dec 12 2008 07:06 AM Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 07:33 AM ="bmfc1":2vohih50]Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere.[/quote:2vohih50] See now right there's a reason to not part with Shoeneweis, if you needed one. Phils are going to be even more loaded with LH hitting than last year. I think maybe the Mets go get Burrell, what do you say? He's streaky and a bit of a dumb jock but he hits, he's righty and it sticks it the Phils (he's definitely better than Ibanez). I suppose Marquis would be alright near the end of the rotation but I'd hate for them to be fighting to get their money's worth with him. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 07:45 AM I don't have a problem with Marquis being a four or five pitcher; that's pretty much what the Mets are looking for anyway. It would be nice to get someone who would be number 2, and bump Maine and Pelfrey each down a slot, but that's not all that realistic. I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:47 AM Ryan Howard, who Marty Noble insists was the MVP last year, went a m odest .219 / .313 / .479 // .792 vs the Mets last year. If you've got to decide which lefty to keep, consider that he didn't reach base once against Feliciano in seven plate appearances (four Ks), while Schoeneweis was perfect against him in five confrontations, with two Ks. Wait, that doesn't help at all. Um, Schoenewess came out on top in his one matchup with Ibanez last year, while Feliciano didn't see and Raul action. But that only makes them more even. Eeny, meeny, miny, mo. seawolf17 Dec 12 2008 07:56 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11ubw6yw]I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots.[/quote:11ubw6yw] I'd still rather have Dunn than Burrell, but I'd take Burrell in a second. I'm concerned about Murphy getting overexposed; give him 250 ABs in a part-time role and let him earn his stripes again. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM Speaking of Ibanez, the Phillies just signed him to a three year, $30 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=376426 8 Too bad. I think he would have been a great pickup for the Mets. Later Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:07 AM Head, slammed through wall. Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2008 08:28 AM If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo). Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:32 AM Marlon, I think, is not long for this town. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 08:33 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2d4wl6of]If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo).[/quote:2d4wl6of] Yes. Right now the fifth outfielder spot appears to be a competition between Evans and Reed. If a Burrell or Dunn were signed, the competition would be over and both of those outfielders would end up in Buffalo. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:37 AM Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 08:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3pbxjx7s]Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it.[/quote:3pbxjx7s] Well, Dmitri Young wasn't tendered and is a free agent. He certainly fills the "big fat" parts of that slot. Later Gwreck Dec 12 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":1wn8w6gz]Head, slammed through wall.[/quote:1wn8w6gz] Rollins Ibanez Utley Howard Werth Victorino Dobbs/Feliz Ruiz Ouch. Only consolation is that it's a left-heavy lineup. Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Ibanez basically replaces Burrell's production. Meaning the Phils will return a very similar lineup to last year's. Mark Texiera still available. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM I'm slamming my head through a wall because of the proliferation of posting without reading. smg58 Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Evans belongs at Buffalo playing first base. With Carp gone and Delgado in his walk year, he should be getting full-time AB's at his best position. The Mets need more lefthanded pitching. Burrell might not be better than Ibanez when you factor in ballparks. But both might hurt (might have hurt, in Ibanez' case) the Mets defensively more than they'd help offensively. The Mets absolutely need another righthanded bat in the outfield, but not at a cost that's disproportionate to the benefit. sharpie Dec 12 2008 10:24 AM Ibanez is a pretty good fielder, certainly not a guy you have to take out in the late innings. TransMonk Dec 12 2008 03:13 PM Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets. Valadius Dec 12 2008 03:47 PM Good. Burnett breaks down virtually every year. metirish Dec 12 2008 04:33 PM Of all the crazy things , I guess they won the bidding war again. Frayed Knot Dec 13 2008 06:50 AM So the Yanx had themselves a 1/4 Billion dollar week. Or, as they say in the Bronx, a good starting point. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2008 06:58 AM Here's hoping Burnett is even a bigger bust than Pavano. He's apparently a bigger idiot, and already a bigger injury risk. smg58 Dec 13 2008 08:27 AM The non-tenders are headed rather shockingly by ex-Met Ty Wigginton, after a very strong year with the bat. He's not that good defensively in the infield, but I have to think it had more to do with money. I also can't imagine that none of the teams in the market for a third baseman (the Twins, the Indians, the Giants) wouldn't have given him a look. I've always thought Ty could be the 10th man on a good team, and the Mets have room for him (as primarily an outfielder), but somebody might still pay him a starter's salary. Other noteworthy non-tenders include Chris Capuano (still recovering from TJS but might be worth a long-term look) and Takaishi Saito (his worth depends entirely on the status of his elbow). The only Met I saw was Argenis Reyes. If that's it, that would mean that Stokes (a good move) and Robinson Cancel (a bit surprising, unless they know they can move one of the other catchers) are staying on the 40. Nymr83 Dec 13 2008 12:59 PM i would LOVE to bring Wiggy back as a bench player, he has the pop that this bench needs and can play 2B/3B when needed (though not necessarily well) Valadius Dec 13 2008 01:20 PM I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat. OlerudOwned Dec 13 2008 02:47 PM I'm a lot happier with Ibanez in Philly than as a Met, especially at 3 years. Keith Law calls it "absurd[/url:20pumd9t]." Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:30 PM What about Burrell for an everyday LF and Jon Garland as an SP? Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2008 07:48 PM ="Valadius":2u4mpb0q]I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat.[/quote:2u4mpb0q] We'll be competing to buy him as a super-sub against teams looking for a starting thirdbaseman. You'd probably have to be thinking of him as your starting secondbaseman when you sign him. Aaron Miles, meanwhile got non-tendered. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2008 07:47 PM Besides Easley's role also included backing up Reyes at SS and Wiggy is an unrealistic option there. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:56 PM Miles plays everywhere, shortstop (and mopup pitcher) included. He's pretty similar from both sides of the plate. He can take lefties away from Castillo (against whom Luis is historically weaker), pressing him for the full-time job, backup at shortstop, and fill in elsewhere as needed. He's pretty analogous to Super Joe, with a little more average and a little less power, but has more starting experience and is less likely to be over-exposed by over-use. Ashie62 Dec 15 2008 04:19 AM Miles would come cheap and would be a rich mans superjoe I'd prefer Wiggy cause he can play anything..maybe even left or RF when Murphy or Church have problems Don't we need to focus on a full-time outfielder? Relying on Church & Murphy for 150 games seems a stretch. I'd love Burrell..surly as he is and as far as a SP goes..wait til Most of The A pitchers go and go after Sheets or Garland. metirish Dec 15 2008 06:55 AM Alex Cora was again mentioned in a report today. smg58 Dec 15 2008 07:24 AM Miles is another player who would be an upgrade over Castillo. He has similar hitting numbers to Castillo from a few years ago. He's also at least average with the glove, which Castillo can no longer say. He'd be worth bringing in for something like two years and $5M, although I might go higher than that if there are no other viable 2B options. He's not Orlando Hudson, but he could present significant value. I'd be willing to go 2 years and $6M for Wigginton's services, even if I could only guarantee him starts against lefties (in the outfield). Somebody like him or Juan Rivera would boost our bench, enable us to platoon Ryan Church, and provide cover if something goes wrong with Murphy, Church, or Delgado. I'm not sure that would be enough, but nobody jumped at the chance to trade for him. Edgy DC Dec 15 2008 07:35 AM Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder. MFS62 Dec 15 2008 07:45 AM ="Edgy DC":1omuczeq]Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder.[/quote:1omuczeq] I agree. B'sides, if the Mets sign Cora, we might be subjected to pictures of him with his brother. I'd get flashbacks of images of Joe Torre and his sister. Hide the eyes of the chill'uns. Miles gets my vote. Later MFS62 Dec 15 2008 08:54 AM Righthander Chan Ho Park said in a press conference in Seoul today that he has agreed to a 1-year contract with the Phillies. According to the Korea Times, Park, 35, will have a base salary of $2.5 million with incentives that could push the total package to $5 million. There had been reports that the Phillies were close to coming to terms with Park to improve their bullpen. However, the pitcher said he opted for the Phillies in part because they viewed him as a starter. �I was a little worried about the Citizens Bank Park, the home of the Phillies, which is hitter-friendly,� he said. "But as they considered me a starter, I signed with Philadelphia.� http://www.philly.com/philly/b...l_for_Park.html Later Frayed Knot Dec 15 2008 05:29 PM The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either. Centerfield Dec 15 2008 07:32 PM It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell." themetfairy Dec 15 2008 07:37 PM ="Centerfield":38yhgguz]It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell."[/quote:38yhgguz] I love you, Man. Your posts always make me laugh. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2008 08:19 PM ="Frayed Knot":uz2je510]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:uz2je510] Go, Theo, go. Frayed Knot Dec 16 2008 06:36 AM Phils re-up 95 y/o Jamie Moyer for 2 years. OK, he's really only 46. Fman99 Dec 16 2008 06:40 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2wijd3xl]="Frayed Knot":2wijd3xl]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:2wijd3xl] Go, Theo, go.[/quote:2wijd3xl] I would not be surprised if Houston was the team not being mentioned. He pitched well down there for them and they don't have a whole lot of starting pitching depth after Oswalt. Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 06:46 AM I'm OK with Pedro. I said it. Just, you know, sign a bunch of other guys also. Farmer Ted Dec 16 2008 08:51 AM I have no problem with Petey in the #5 slot to start the season. I'm more worried with the durability of Maine and whether the other teams catch up with Pelfry's stuff. metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 09:28 AM Any day the Phils resign Jamie Moyer and add Chan Ho Park is a good day for us! Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:31 AM The Phils trying to get two more years out of an ancient lefty strikes me as one more good reason for us to Burrell up. DocTee Dec 19 2008 09:14 AM Knucksie in Dixie: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/18/SPMQ14QQMI.DTL John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 09:31 AM Never made any sense to me that Lance Neikro wasn't a knuckleballer to begin with. IIRC, he had a big hit vs. the Mets (was it a game-winning HR or something?) when he first came up with the Giants and I naturally assumed he was on his way to major stardom. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Fireballer Daniel Cabrera goes to the Nats, 1 year, 2.6 million. Valadius Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:57 AM ="Valadius":2pz740g9]Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case.[/quote:2pz740g9] I think people were saying that about Ollie Perez before the Pirates sent him to us. Talented, strikeout pitcher, control issues, high ERA, etc. metsguyinmichigan Dec 21 2008 10:29 PM OK, now both the Angels and the Red Sox say they're not going after Texiera anymore. Has Boras finall pushed people over the edge, or is this all just negotiating ploys? Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:05 AM The Angels are claiming that their offer is "off the table" and that there'll be no further negotiating - which at least doesn't sound like a ploy. Boston, for its part, isn't claiming that, only that they think they're not going to be his choice due to other teams raising their offers beyond where they're willing to go. That leaves Teixeira in the position of either taking Boston's "low" offer or going the Baltimore/Washington route which kind of flies in the face of his 'I wanna be a contendah' pledge. Supposedly this was going to be wrapped up by Xmas but it wouldn't be the first time Boras has over-played his hand. Benjamin Grimm Dec 22 2008 07:07 AM There's still Baltimore and Washington. Boras isn't quite out of options yet. metsguyinmichigan Dec 22 2008 07:19 AM Speaking of Boras... Murray Chass MurrayChass.com Now that CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have signed, other pitchers on the free-agent list are expected to follow. Derek Lowe is probably next on the list in terms of interest, but the interest has been all talk and no offers. His agent's asking price is said to be the reason. Scott Boras has told clubs he wants Barry Zito money for the 35-year-old Lowe, which means $18 million a year. Clubs interested in Lowe have not rushed forward with such offers. The slow-moving market may be just what the Mets want. ...Barry Zito isn't worth Barry Zito money. But Derek Lowe? Is he nuts? Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 01:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 22 2008 02:20 PM I'm not sure I'd support the Mets spending $18 million a year for two Derek Lowes. Valadius Dec 22 2008 02:04 PM The MOST I'd spend on Derek Lowe is $8 million a year. $18 million is beyond rationality. Willets Point Dec 22 2008 03:01 PM Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone. MFS62 Dec 23 2008 07:36 AM ="Willets Point":2bf2t6s1]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:2bf2t6s1] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later smg58 Dec 23 2008 11:23 AM Guys who can consistently give you 200+ IP with 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA are worth plenty more than 8 million. I wouldn't go four years with Lowe, on account of his age, but I'd much rather have him than Ollie. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 03:04 PM ="MFS62":3rvs0psj]="Willets Point":3rvs0psj]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:3rvs0psj] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later[/quote:3rvs0psj] Just a joke about Lowe's rumored love of the drink. Valadius Dec 26 2008 09:01 PM Randy Johnson will pursue his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant. Nymr83 Dec 27 2008 01:15 AM he could it be cutting it close with the type of run support the giants give their starters. he needs 5 wins, it took Matt Cain all year to get 8 wins for the Giants with an ERA+ the same as Johnson's last year. Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 05:08 AM 'Randy Johnson is a Giant' is somewhat of a redundant headline. He's probably been called that since he was in the 4th grade. On the other hand, there must have been plenty in in the Castro district of SF who were excited to hear that someone called 'The Big Unit' was coming to their city. DocTee Dec 27 2008 09:16 AM FK with a late entry for post o' the year. The Giants have had a nice offseason (Renteria, Affeldt, Howry, Johnson) and if local rumors of them adding Adam Dunn are correct, they could be players in a weak West. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 27 2008 09:19 AM I agree. You can definitely quibble with the wisdom of a team's particular moves but I like to see franchises who've had bad years making a bunch of moves in the offseason, whether they are effective or not. Like the Giants... and the MFYs... Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 03:49 PM X-Rockie, X-Astro OFer Wily Tavarez signs a two-year deal with Cincy. He's good at stealing bases and also .... ummmm, I'll think of something. And Kevin Mensch heads for Japan. The Japanese just might get a look at his monsterously huge head and add a second rising sun to their flag. I think that thing has its own gravitational pull. Frayed Knot Dec 29 2008 07:20 AM Penny for your Sox ... Brad Penny to Boston for 1 yr/$5mil -- pending a physical which could yet throw a wrench into the works. As mentioned elsewhere, this could keep them from chasing the likes of Lowe, Wolf, Ollie, etc. thus reducing the demand pool by one more team. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 11:20 AM This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:29 PM The Cubs sign Aaron Miles for two years, then trade DeRosa to the Indians for three low level (not even top 20) prospects. At least it's not the Phillies, but that's one mild upgrade over Castillo and one significant upgrade who found takers at prices we could have afforded. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:30 PM Cubs 2B Mark DeRosa - long rumored as part of a Jake Peavy trade - dealt to Cleveland for a trio of minor league pitchers. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:36 PM Fuentes got two years at $17.5M, plus a club option. Rotoworld says "Fuentes almost certainly took less money to play close to home," but I'm not sure who was competing with the Angels. Frayed Knot Jan 02 2009 05:47 AM Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day! Nymr83 Jan 02 2009 06:41 AM ="Frayed Knot":1xejc7ja]Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day![/quote:1xejc7ja] Better news- nobody really cares about him anymore, including it seems the GMs of all 30 teams. DocTee Jan 02 2009 04:46 PM Tony Clark returns to D-Baggs: 1 year, 800K. metirish Jan 02 2009 05:34 PM Watching MLB Network Hot Stove and they are reporting that San Francisco have offered Manny Ramirez a four year deal. Dodgers and A Jones have agreed to defer most of his money owed likely leading to him playing elsewhere. Scott Proctor to the Marlins for one year. Ashie62 Jan 03 2009 12:33 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2ytj1poh]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels.[/quote:2ytj1poh] This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker metsmarathon Jan 03 2009 12:40 PM ="Ashie62":hblnrkgs]Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker[/quote:hblnrkgs] i don't believe that for a second. Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 12:58 PM ="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. Kong76 Jan 03 2009 01:36 PM Maybe the three closer thing is the way to go after the last two seasons. Ashie62 Jan 05 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC"]="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. True..my impatience caused me to jump over Krod & Putz KP DOOTY...I'm just frustrated that the odds of landing a power corner and a decent SP , Sheets, Garland, Lowe..are diminishing and pray the Mets are not newly cash short Burrell has a rep for being a prick but if the Rays can land him at 16 million for 2 years I then wonder why the Mets wouldn't top that and not have to expect 150 games from Murphy and even let Murphy learn 2B at AAA as an experiment. smg58 Jan 05 2009 03:15 PM The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one. MFS62 Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM ="smg58":1gnuo0ct]The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one.[/quote:1gnuo0ct] Can't wait to see him go head-to-head with Pinella. Later smg58 Jan 07 2009 05:51 AM And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 06:20 AM ="smg58":162h2ehz]And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price.[/quote:162h2ehz] Makes ya crazy. Geez. I mean, about Hairston. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 07:18 AM Maybe Hairston gets a chance to start in Cincy and couldn't be sure of that here. Never did even hear a rumor of them looking at him though. Also: - Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:42 AM Andy Pettitte turns down one year and $10 million from the Yanks in a declining market. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 10:10 AM Yomiuri Giant Koji Uehara signs with Bal'more for two years. Reports say that he's the team's first Japanese player, but they forget Nippo-Hawaiian Len Sakata. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 10:41 AM Len was American. smg58 Jan 07 2009 10:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":2gsb44fr]- Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino[/quote:2gsb44fr] I'll laugh if Pavano gives the Indians 27 starts (i.e., more starts than he gave the MFY's in four years). The Marquis deal appears to leave Jorge de la Rosa out of the rotation in Colorado. I'd see what the asking price for him is; he finished very strongly last year, and he's at least as good as Tim Redding. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 11:01 AM ="Centerfield":biqnwx39]Len was American.[/quote:biqnwx39] As I said. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 12:00 PM From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly MFS62 Jan 07 2009 12:14 PM ="Frayed Knot":3hnipcdi]From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly[/quote:3hnipcdi] Pure insurance with Utley out for the early part of the year due to surgery. Later metirish Jan 07 2009 08:04 PM From MetsBlog Mike Fitzpatrick of the Associated Press believes the Mets have made an offer to free-agent RHP Tim Redding, who was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 08:56 PM I'll give Redding this: with one inning and six runs, he may be the worst performing Yankee ever. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 09:06 PM Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox. Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2009 10:03 PM If Rocco Baldelli can be reasonably healthy, he could be a great pick up for the Red Sox. I hope he is healthy and has a great season for the Sox. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gx2svou]Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox.[/quote:3gx2svou] And quite possibly Smoltz too! Not official yet but several outlets are reporting it's 'bout a done deal. I guess they're promising him a starting job - don't think he would have jumped otherwise. Other reports have Trevor Hoffman going to the Brews ... although this is only one day after others had him headed to the Dodgers. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 07:46 AM Sort of a homecoming for Smoltz. Didn't he start his career with the Braves when they were still playing in Boston? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM No, the Tigers. Anywhoo, oughta soitenly remove Boston from the list of potential Lowe suitors (and cause me some concern too: Why don't any of Lowe's former employers want him back?) smg58 Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM The additions of Smoltz and Brad Penny probably take the Sox out of the discussions for Derek Lowe. Assuming Baldelli gets something like what Hairston got, I'd be a little annoyed that we didn't give him a look. We do need another righthanded bat. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:57 AM Yeah, I was half-hoping for Baldelli too. He's not a great player and has played fewer games in the last two seasons than Alou had in the two before we got him. But if this problem of his has finally been diagnosed correctly he could be a useful guy to have around. But Omar seems to be on this 'one problem at a time' schedule where nothing can even be talked about until the starter question is answered. metirish Jan 08 2009 08:01 AM Did bucket mis-read Ben's post? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 08:02 AM Yes. Yes I did. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 08:14 AM I almost did too because I sometimes confuse the Smoltz trade with the Bagwell one from Boston. The Smoltz from Detroit for Denny Alexander trade happened around the same era as Bagwell for Larry Anderson. Both were done for pennant push help and in each case the minor leaguers were home-town guys (Smoltz is from Mich, Bags from Conn) who turned into HoF possibilities. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 08:17 AM Doyle Alexander. Now Denny McLain or somebody is getting into the conflation. metirish Jan 08 2009 10:25 AM Looking at a potential nightmare with outfield defense the MFY's are apparently looking to trade Swisher and Nady. Yankees fielding offers for Nady, Swisher Posted by: Jon Heyman The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There's been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there's really no way to trade him. A logjam at the corners was created when the Yankees surprised a lot of folks and signed Mark Teixeira to an eight-year, $180 million contract. Swisher previously had been penciled in as the Yankees' first baseman but now becomes part of a crowded mix of accomplished corner outfielders. Swisher is a versatile player and can play some center field, as well. Some National League teams may be interested. However, Nady's trade value is higher after a better offensive season, so he may be just as likely to be dealt. Nady, acquired by the Yankees in a midseason trade with the Pirates, combined to hit .305 with 25 home runs and 97 RBIs for the year, while Swisher finished at .219 with 24 home runs and 69 RBIs for the White Sox before being dealt to the Yankees after the season Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 02:09 PM i'd sure take Nady back, to split time with Church, Murphy and Delgado. But no way the Yanx trade him cross town. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:30 PM You leave Tatis out of that mix. Nady gives you what Tatis gives you, only more and probably better and definitely younger. Tatis' only advantage is playing third. I'd love a Nady around because I think the best way to get something like last year's productivity out of Tatis is to make him earn every at-bat. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 02:43 PM Maybe Murphy will do that, but I'm not counting on it. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:46 PM What's going down, and I think a lot of us feel it, is that a lot of things went kind of right in Omar's offense that could have easily gone wronger, and he's kind of seeming to kind of be counting on a lot of those same thingies to go right again. Fans be pessemistic creatures, of course. Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 03:21 PM Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard. attgig Jan 08 2009 03:29 PM ="Vic Sage":37m9y64n]Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard.[/quote:37m9y64n] and you have a wild card at 1b, so it's not even half a lineup. nobody has faith in schnied to produce offensively, and while castro COULD provide some pop, he just gets hurt too often (he must be the worst backup catcher in the league). 2b, nobody has faith in castillo, except he's saying all the right things. and Church... will his head be screwed on straight? it'll be an interesting few more weeks before spring training. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 03:35 PM I agree with Vic, including about left field, but I'd be okay with giving Murphy/Tatis a chance to shine again. But in doing that, you have to protect yourself by beefing up some of the other positions. And as yet, the Mets haven't done anything towards that end. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 07:12 PM Ramon Castro, not the worst backup catcher in the league. DocTee Jan 09 2009 09:42 AM John Smoltz, Red Sock. metirish Jan 09 2009 12:35 PM Swisher the Yanks' preferred candidate over Nady BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com January 9, 2009 In their current roster logjam, the Yankees would strongly prefer to trade Xavier Nady and retain Nick Swisher, a person familiar with the club's thinking said yesterday. General manager Brian Cashman has received more requests for Swisher than for Nady. With spring training more than a month away and the season opener just about three months away, however, there is no imperative to execute a quick trade. The Mets enjoyed having Nady on their club for the first four months of the 2006 season, and they inquired about him last July, when the Yankees wound up getting him from Pittsburgh. For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 01:54 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 09 2009 02:02 PM Swisher switch-hits, and is better and more versatile defensively. He's also signed for the next few years which could be either good or bad depending on whether he regains his hitting from last season's off year. Nady is more likely to hit better (though walk less) and would only be for one year at a price to be determined by arbitration then would be a FA after that. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 09 2009 01:59 PM If we weren't already loaded with lefthanded hitting outfielders, I'd take Godzilla as a LH bench masher in the Franco/Staub mold. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 02:04 PM As long as the Cranks would pay 90% of the freight and expect nothing back in return, sure. (OK, maybe 70% with a throw-in going the other way would do) Ashie62 Jan 09 2009 05:10 PM I feel safe to say Tatis has had his middle aged career year..I wouldn't put too high a ceiling there. Daniel Murphy needs more seasoning and I still advocate a year at AAA to learn 2B Mr. Nady..wasn't he a Met who know has Yankee cooties? metirish Jan 11 2009 03:46 PM Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Fman99 Jan 11 2009 07:52 PM ="metirish"]Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Pedro really looked spent in 2008, after having a respectable September prior. I don't think he has much in the tank and I would not miss all the drama. Rockin' Doc Jan 11 2009 09:29 PM Marlins not interested in signing Pedro By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- Don't look for Pedro Martinez to wind up with the Marlins. A day after a report stated the Marlins were in the mix for the 37-year-old right-hander, a league source confirmed to MLB.com on Sunday that Florida has zero interest. Reports in the Miami Herald, Palm Beach Post and SunSentinel also ruled out the possibility of Martinez joining the club. On Saturday night, a report on ESPNdeportes.com stated the Marlins had discussions with agent Fernando Cuza regarding Martinez. The report added Florida may have begun preliminary contract talks, and that the two sides were expected to continue talking this week. As of late Sunday afternoon, the Marlins were not considered a possible fit. Martinez has a home in Miami, and he has expressed privately a desire to pitch for the Marlins. On Monday, Cuza is expected to have discussions with the Mets about a possible return to New York. The right-hander also is expected to test the free-agent market. Hampered by injuries last year, Martinez was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts. He threw 109 innings. Working with minimal financial resources, the Marlins are looking for affordable free agents. The team did explore adding veteran Carl Pavano, who signed with the Indians. The Marlins are prepared to head into Spring Training with a rotation that includes Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller and Anibal Sanchez. Nolasco, eliglbe for arbitration, still has not signed. Florida continues to explore depth at catcher. The team is looking for low-priced options there. A free agent that could be a fit is Ivan Rodriguez, but only if his price tag continues to drop this month. Frayed Knot Jan 12 2009 07:01 AM IOW, the earlier story was an agent plant. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 08:20 AM Yeah, use the threat of the Daddy Warbucks Marlins to trigger a false bidding war. That's the ticket. Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:09 AM I think that Pedro had far more interest in the Marlins than they had in him. I believe that Pedro is desperate to play another season, but I don't think teams throughout the league are very interested in signing him. Pedro was once a dominant, HOF caliber pitcher, but he seems to be the one person that doesn't see how far removed from his former greatness he now is. metirish Jan 12 2009 11:17 AM If Pedro Martinez retired tomorrow he would surely be in the HOF at first ballot , wouldn't he? Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:21 AM I was not inferring that Pedro Martinez was not worthy of enshrinement in Coopperstown. He has had a tremendous career and was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in MLB for several seasons. I would vote for him (if I had a vote) when his name comes up on the HOF ballot. I was simply stating that he is not nearly the dominant pitcher he once was. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 11:22 AM I think he's pretty aware of what happened last year. If he didn't still believe he could turn it around, he wouldn't be the great pitcher he is. What's more, I believe he could turn it around. In his prime, he had an unprecedented four killer pitches, so it's not like he was fastball-reliant. It's a matter of finding what he can do with what's left of his fastball and using it to complement the rest of his arsenal. That's a far ways from saying he will return to a productive level, but I'm certain he can. Glavine continued to pitch effectively with a powder puff fastball and a change. While his control was still very good, Pedro's has always been even better. And if I'm the Mets, I'm willing to spend some change to find out. Giving him Redding's money with an automatically vesting bonus year of $9 million if he gets 180 innings? Yeah, go for it. I'm certain he can do as well as Redding in 2009, and a damn fine bet to do better. The only thing Redding has over him is a better doctor's report. metirish Jan 12 2009 05:05 PM Michael Young wants out of Texas , can play 2nd base. I should add that Heyman just said on the Hot stove that he has %62 million left on his big contract. smg58 Jan 12 2009 05:22 PM Young's expensive, and the dropoff in his numbers over the past three years has been precipitous. Even if they took Castillo it would still be a $10M payroll hit, and he's just not that good anymore. Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 01:14 PM Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 01:52 PM Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year? Someone will be able to pick him up for minimum wage, and they may get a hell of a bargain at the Dodgers expense. metirish Jan 15 2009 01:56 PM Jones was on MLB Network the other night talking about how he would love to go back to the Braves. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 02:01 PM No doubt. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 02:28 PM i'd give andruw a shot, for minimum wage... Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 05:45 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

="Edgy DC":1qe4vw0z]5) They turned away Tampa who tried to deal them Chad Bradford, because, like Tampa, they don't want to pay a ROOGy $3.5 mils.[/quote:1qe4vw0z] In 2009, Bradford would be in year 3 of that contract (the 3 year deal that the Mets refused to give him but gave to Schoeneweis). I'd have to believe that not getting Bradford would be more of a function of his potential role already filled by Joe Smith than just a few million bucks. Gwreck Dec 04 2008 08:34 AM ="Edgy DC":1kf4rwd2]Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir?[/quote:1kf4rwd2] All of their success was elsewhere, but I suppose that doesn't really matter when evaluating the quality of the pick. Those ones weren't too bad. HahnSolo Dec 04 2008 10:20 AM Boston Globe reporting that the Phillies have made an offer to Derek Lowe. No details of the offer, but apparently another team has also made an offer. [url:27icv0p0]http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/12/04/teams_starting_to_make_pitches/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Red+Sox+news[/url:27icv0p0] Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:24 AM Lowe may be the free agent I unwant the most this offseason. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:31 AM I read today that the Giants are mulling an offer to C.C. in the $100 million plus for five years range , he is from an area close to San Francisco. smg58 Dec 04 2008 10:33 AM I see no point in dealing for a closer if the market is so glutted with options that won't cost players. Keep in mind that Putz is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a significant injury and an off year. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:37 AM I hear you. But, as a trade-hater myself, I'm sure the Mets see the advantages of dealing as (a) not giving up draft picks, ( getting a guy at yesterday's salary rather than tomorrow's, and (c) getting a guy who is closer to the expiration of his deal, protecting them from having to pay for nothing in year four, like they are with Wagner. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:39 AM Numbers from Newsday regarding Fernando Martinez ] Martinez, who turned 20 in October, is looking impressive again in the Dominican Winter League after another injury-plagued season at Double-A Binghamton. Martinez was batting .323 with four home runs, 19 RBIs and a .382 on-base percentage in 28 games for Leones del Escogido. Compared with his .282 average for the B-Mets, along with eight homers in 86 games, Martinez appears ready for a breakthrough season DocTee Dec 04 2008 02:04 PM SF finally gets their man: Edgar Renteria, 2 years, $18.5 million Busy off-season for the G-men: Renteria, Howry and Affeldt and now, apparently, maybe Sabathia Frayed Knot Dec 04 2008 02:23 PM House-cleaning Pads deal rapidly-declining Khalil Green to the Cards Russel Branyan signs with Seattle John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:27 PM Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Tough couple of minutes for talented but enigmatic white shortstops. smg58 Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You can't fault the Giants for being aggressive when everybody else is cautious. Affeldt is a very nice pickup for two years. Howry I'm not so sure about; they already have a deeper pen than people realize, and Sergio Romo is a guy to watch. (PS I wonder what the Giants would want for Romo.) As for Renteria, it depends on which version shows up. But even the 2008 version is an upgrade at the position, so they don't have a whole lot to lose. I certainly wouldn't fault them for going after Sabathia, either. You get the sense he's waiting for somebody to at least try and compete with the Yankees. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You're really into Jack Wilson, aren't you. metirish Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":30uw5ppo]Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit[/quote:30uw5ppo] Don't go posting "Jackie Wilson Said " now. Valadius Dec 04 2008 02:49 PM Jack Wilson is the single ugliest player in professional baseball. soupcan Dec 04 2008 02:58 PM 'What you talkin' 'bout, Vlad?' Valadius Dec 04 2008 03:59 PM seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 05:15 PM Currently, yes. All-time, he's not even in the Top Ten. Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 05:30 PM Aren't you forgetting someone? Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 05:58 PM Johnny Dickshot is the only guy in the BB-r.com database with the nickname "Ugly." seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 06:42 PM ="Nymr83"]Aren't you forgetting someone? Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 08:06 PM theres no need to post a second picture of the guy... metirish Dec 05 2008 06:58 AM From the Snooze ] The Braves made their first proposal to Burnett Thursday, according to sources, offering him a four-year deal worth roughly $64 million with a vesting option for a fifth year based on the number of innings pitched. The Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles are still interested in Burnett, but the fifth-year option may be enough to put the Braves over the top. Good luck to them with that. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:19 AM How far away are the Braves from being a contender? From what I recall of last year, they have some doin' to do before I'm going to start worrying about them. In other Hot Stove news, SNY's Mets Hot Stove Report is going to air four (count 'em, four!) live shows next week from the winter meetings. Apparently they're expecting a lot of fast-breaking news, but it's possible that this might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again. Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:28 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":e413zzsl]This might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again.[/quote:e413zzsl] I think I missed that one. What happened there? Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:29 AM Sometimes I forget how old I am. The Al Capone thing was from before you were born, Val. Here's Wiki's article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone%27s_Vault Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:35 AM Wow. How did Geraldo Rivera maintain any credibility whatsoever after that? Not like Fox News has any credibility, but still. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 07:37 AM "The Mystery of Al Capone's Vault was a one-time live American television special broadcast in syndication in April 1986 hosted by Geraldo Rivera." One time? Somebody's forgetting Rivera's opening of the Andrea Doria vault. soupcan Dec 05 2008 08:01 AM I remember that - all the hype about the vault. Then, the vault is opened and Geraldo's looking inside and...... There's nothing there! Too funny. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 08:07 AM I remember a quote from Geraldo, years later, that went something like, "If only there was SOMETHING in that damn vault!" I was hoping the Wiki article would include that quote, but it didn't. He had major egg on his face for quite a while after that. It was, as soupcan said, very funny. metirish Dec 06 2008 05:54 PM Olney reports that Furcal turned down a take it or leave four year deal from Oakland worth $35 million-$40 million. What market does he think is out there for him? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:23 PM Last year's economy? seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 07:16 PM One of my favorite players on the move, as Ryan Freel and two prospects go to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez. metirish Dec 09 2008 07:18 PM My sources are telling me that the MFY's will better the Braves money for Burrnett and go the extra year. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:03 AM This, from esspin: ]Minaya: Mets interested in re-signing Pedro, plan to meet with agent The New York Mets are interested in retaining Pedro Martinez and plan to meet with the Dominican pitcher's agent, GM Omar Minaya informed ESPNdeportes.com. "We have interest in him. We're going to talk to his agent when we have the opportunity," Minaya said Tuesday, the second day of the winter meetings. Minaya said that he has not yet scheduled a formal meeting with Fernando Cuza, Martinez's agent, or Martinez. Martinez, however, said he isn't ready to start thinking about where he wants to play next season. "I've said it previously and I have said to my agents that they do not speak to me of contracts until January," Martinez said Tuesday. Martinez, 37, also likely won't decide whether to pitch for the Dominican Republic in next year's World Baseball Classic until he reaches a contract agreement with a major league team. The three-time Cy Young winner endured the worst season of his 16-year career in 2008. Martinez went 5-6 and 5.61 ERA in 20 outings and was affected by various injuries and personal problems. Why? Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 08:08 AM Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. If he's cheap (which I doubt) and if you could bench him if he stunk (which would be tricky), it's not a bad insurance plan. I don't think the answer to either of those ifs will work in the team's interest, though. DocTee Dec 10 2008 11:23 AM Alan Embree to Colorado, lessening their need for a LOOGY and kiboshing the proposed Heiman/Feliciano for Street swap. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 11:44 AM Well that's good for us in the sense that Omah was holding back on including Feliciano in the first place. Now he can throw in Duaner Sanchez instead and call it a dealeeeo. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 12:56 PM Rumor has it that the Mets and Dodgers are discussing Juan Pierre. (Seems to be coming from Fox Sports.) Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him. The Mets have a guy like that... Would the Dodgers have any use at all for Castillo? If so, then maybe the two teams could trade headaches. Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:58 PM I'd rather have Castillo than Pierre sharpie Dec 10 2008 01:04 PM Agreed. I'd hate to waste an outfield spot on a speed-only guy. Valadius Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM What the hell do we need Pierre for? We have a center fielder. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM Good lord, Juan Pierre and Pedro? Haven't they already met their quota of guys who suck? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:14 PM Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package. Other than that, he can revitatlize our long-since-interrupted Outfielders from Mobile, tradition, and maybe cancel some of the kharmic dept for trading Amos Otis. He puts the bat on the ball witout GiDPing. But he's looking a lot like a pinch-runner on the wrong side of 30. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:16 PM ="Edgy DC":1vw8dz0f]Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package.[/quote:1vw8dz0f] But if reports are true that the Mets don't want to venture too far over last year's payroll, I wouldn't want to add on his contract. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:17 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":g0bx2ilm]Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him.[/quote:g0bx2ilm] HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 02:36 PM I'm still on the negative side of meh with him. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 02:55 PM Well, you sure don't see me tossing my pom-poms in the air. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 02:58 PM Me neither. Pierre and Castillo made a nice pair on the 2002 Marlins, but that was a long time ago. Remember how they used to abuse Piazza? Almost unfair. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 03:00 PM What I wonder, though, is if trading Castillo for Pierre would make the Mets more willing to spend to upgrade at second base. It doesn't really make any sense, but it's possible that they might see it that way. (They'd still be increasing the payroll, but at least they wouldn't be paying Castillo to sit on the bench. And maybe they'd get something out of Pierre. Or at least, more than they expect from Castillo.) Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 03:40 PM Luis Castillo is a useful major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Juan Pierre is a useless major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Castillo is a below average second baseman who can't slug. Pierre's a terrible center fielder (or an average left fielder) who can't hit. Endy Chavez is a better player than Juan Pierre. Almost all major leaguers are better players than Juan Pierre. The one thing he can do is steal bases, and he's not very good at that. Here are his CS% numbers, per year, for his career: 01 27% 02 20% 03 24% 04 38% 05 23% 06 26% 07 19% 08 23% For is career, that's 25%, the break-even point. If he's even a little bit off his career average, he's a liability on the base paths. Pierre is exactly the kind of player you can't hand to a manager. He has a reputation as a good defender, a leadoff type hitter and, perhaps, a "winner." Managers give these kind of players way too many plate appearances and innings in the field based on reputation while the team's performance suffers. bmfc1 Dec 10 2008 07:37 PM From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez. metirish Dec 10 2008 07:38 PM Can I get a WOW? metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM From KR 9:32 p.m. � Source: Tigers to aqcuire Edwin Jackson The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. Tampa Bay, with David Price on the way, had a surplus of starting pitching. Jackson, 25, was 14-11 this year with a 4.25 ERA. In exchange the Rays get a 24-year-old, left-handed-hitting corner outfielder who hit 12 homers in 242 at-bats. -- Ed Price metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM ="bmfc1":3tnm13me]From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.[/quote:3tnm13me] Just so this is not lost on the last page. Gwreck Dec 10 2008 07:55 PM Putz is extremely valuable but won't come cheap: $5 million for '09 and $8.6 million club option for '10 (with a $1M buyout). The other 3 players combined make less than $4 million. I think we'd miss Chavez a lot. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 07:56 PM I'd love to know how he would feel about going from a closer to a setup guy. Would hate to bring him in only to have him griping about his role. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 08:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2008 08:12 PM Chavez isn't going to help us if he hits like he did last year. I love him and all. Meantime I think three guys are all you wanna surrender for a single reliever, especially one coming off a poor season like Putz (edit - poor for him). seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 08:09 PM Heilman, Chavez, Carp for Putz? Yes. Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Joe Smith for Putz? No. smg58 Dec 10 2008 08:36 PM I'd be worried about trusting workhorse innings to a guy coming off a serious injury, but when he's healthy Putz is as good a reliever as anybody. And the Mets do not appear to be giving up anybody they might miss. The Mets need a righthanded reserve outfielder more than they'd need Chavez. I'd make sure JJ gets a thorough physical, but if he passes, I'm for it. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:30 PM davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. One thing about these meetings I find interesting is that every year various baseball types go there looking for a gig , from prominent free agents to former players, I read that Bobby Meacham is there selling himself as is Lee Mazzilli. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:57 PM Minaya on getting more offense. ] "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." smg58 Dec 12 2008 04:49 AM ="metirish"]davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. Marquis' ERA+ last year (99) was comparable with those of Perez (100) and Maine (101). I might try to be ambitious here, offering Anderson, Feliciano, and a second-tier prospect for Marquis and Mike Fontenot. We'd take on more money, but we'd fill two needs and keep the Cubs from revisting sending DeRosa to the Phillies if the Peavy deal gets resurrected. But Schoeneweis for Marquis would be a perfectly acceptable fallback. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 05:07 AM I'm not that enamored with Marquis. MFY fan, you know. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 06:26 AM All this talk about Marquis and Pierre makes me think Omar loves Frenchies. bmfc1 Dec 12 2008 07:06 AM Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 07:33 AM ="bmfc1":2vohih50]Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere.[/quote:2vohih50] See now right there's a reason to not part with Shoeneweis, if you needed one. Phils are going to be even more loaded with LH hitting than last year. I think maybe the Mets go get Burrell, what do you say? He's streaky and a bit of a dumb jock but he hits, he's righty and it sticks it the Phils (he's definitely better than Ibanez). I suppose Marquis would be alright near the end of the rotation but I'd hate for them to be fighting to get their money's worth with him. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 07:45 AM I don't have a problem with Marquis being a four or five pitcher; that's pretty much what the Mets are looking for anyway. It would be nice to get someone who would be number 2, and bump Maine and Pelfrey each down a slot, but that's not all that realistic. I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:47 AM Ryan Howard, who Marty Noble insists was the MVP last year, went a m odest .219 / .313 / .479 // .792 vs the Mets last year. If you've got to decide which lefty to keep, consider that he didn't reach base once against Feliciano in seven plate appearances (four Ks), while Schoeneweis was perfect against him in five confrontations, with two Ks. Wait, that doesn't help at all. Um, Schoenewess came out on top in his one matchup with Ibanez last year, while Feliciano didn't see and Raul action. But that only makes them more even. Eeny, meeny, miny, mo. seawolf17 Dec 12 2008 07:56 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11ubw6yw]I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots.[/quote:11ubw6yw] I'd still rather have Dunn than Burrell, but I'd take Burrell in a second. I'm concerned about Murphy getting overexposed; give him 250 ABs in a part-time role and let him earn his stripes again. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM Speaking of Ibanez, the Phillies just signed him to a three year, $30 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=376426 8 Too bad. I think he would have been a great pickup for the Mets. Later Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:07 AM Head, slammed through wall. Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2008 08:28 AM If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo). Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:32 AM Marlon, I think, is not long for this town. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 08:33 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2d4wl6of]If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo).[/quote:2d4wl6of] Yes. Right now the fifth outfielder spot appears to be a competition between Evans and Reed. If a Burrell or Dunn were signed, the competition would be over and both of those outfielders would end up in Buffalo. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:37 AM Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 08:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3pbxjx7s]Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it.[/quote:3pbxjx7s] Well, Dmitri Young wasn't tendered and is a free agent. He certainly fills the "big fat" parts of that slot. Later Gwreck Dec 12 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":1wn8w6gz]Head, slammed through wall.[/quote:1wn8w6gz] Rollins Ibanez Utley Howard Werth Victorino Dobbs/Feliz Ruiz Ouch. Only consolation is that it's a left-heavy lineup. Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Ibanez basically replaces Burrell's production. Meaning the Phils will return a very similar lineup to last year's. Mark Texiera still available. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM I'm slamming my head through a wall because of the proliferation of posting without reading. smg58 Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Evans belongs at Buffalo playing first base. With Carp gone and Delgado in his walk year, he should be getting full-time AB's at his best position. The Mets need more lefthanded pitching. Burrell might not be better than Ibanez when you factor in ballparks. But both might hurt (might have hurt, in Ibanez' case) the Mets defensively more than they'd help offensively. The Mets absolutely need another righthanded bat in the outfield, but not at a cost that's disproportionate to the benefit. sharpie Dec 12 2008 10:24 AM Ibanez is a pretty good fielder, certainly not a guy you have to take out in the late innings. TransMonk Dec 12 2008 03:13 PM Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets. Valadius Dec 12 2008 03:47 PM Good. Burnett breaks down virtually every year. metirish Dec 12 2008 04:33 PM Of all the crazy things , I guess they won the bidding war again. Frayed Knot Dec 13 2008 06:50 AM So the Yanx had themselves a 1/4 Billion dollar week. Or, as they say in the Bronx, a good starting point. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2008 06:58 AM Here's hoping Burnett is even a bigger bust than Pavano. He's apparently a bigger idiot, and already a bigger injury risk. smg58 Dec 13 2008 08:27 AM The non-tenders are headed rather shockingly by ex-Met Ty Wigginton, after a very strong year with the bat. He's not that good defensively in the infield, but I have to think it had more to do with money. I also can't imagine that none of the teams in the market for a third baseman (the Twins, the Indians, the Giants) wouldn't have given him a look. I've always thought Ty could be the 10th man on a good team, and the Mets have room for him (as primarily an outfielder), but somebody might still pay him a starter's salary. Other noteworthy non-tenders include Chris Capuano (still recovering from TJS but might be worth a long-term look) and Takaishi Saito (his worth depends entirely on the status of his elbow). The only Met I saw was Argenis Reyes. If that's it, that would mean that Stokes (a good move) and Robinson Cancel (a bit surprising, unless they know they can move one of the other catchers) are staying on the 40. Nymr83 Dec 13 2008 12:59 PM i would LOVE to bring Wiggy back as a bench player, he has the pop that this bench needs and can play 2B/3B when needed (though not necessarily well) Valadius Dec 13 2008 01:20 PM I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat. OlerudOwned Dec 13 2008 02:47 PM I'm a lot happier with Ibanez in Philly than as a Met, especially at 3 years. Keith Law calls it "absurd[/url:20pumd9t]." Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:30 PM What about Burrell for an everyday LF and Jon Garland as an SP? Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2008 07:48 PM ="Valadius":2u4mpb0q]I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat.[/quote:2u4mpb0q] We'll be competing to buy him as a super-sub against teams looking for a starting thirdbaseman. You'd probably have to be thinking of him as your starting secondbaseman when you sign him. Aaron Miles, meanwhile got non-tendered. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2008 07:47 PM Besides Easley's role also included backing up Reyes at SS and Wiggy is an unrealistic option there. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:56 PM Miles plays everywhere, shortstop (and mopup pitcher) included. He's pretty similar from both sides of the plate. He can take lefties away from Castillo (against whom Luis is historically weaker), pressing him for the full-time job, backup at shortstop, and fill in elsewhere as needed. He's pretty analogous to Super Joe, with a little more average and a little less power, but has more starting experience and is less likely to be over-exposed by over-use. Ashie62 Dec 15 2008 04:19 AM Miles would come cheap and would be a rich mans superjoe I'd prefer Wiggy cause he can play anything..maybe even left or RF when Murphy or Church have problems Don't we need to focus on a full-time outfielder? Relying on Church & Murphy for 150 games seems a stretch. I'd love Burrell..surly as he is and as far as a SP goes..wait til Most of The A pitchers go and go after Sheets or Garland. metirish Dec 15 2008 06:55 AM Alex Cora was again mentioned in a report today. smg58 Dec 15 2008 07:24 AM Miles is another player who would be an upgrade over Castillo. He has similar hitting numbers to Castillo from a few years ago. He's also at least average with the glove, which Castillo can no longer say. He'd be worth bringing in for something like two years and $5M, although I might go higher than that if there are no other viable 2B options. He's not Orlando Hudson, but he could present significant value. I'd be willing to go 2 years and $6M for Wigginton's services, even if I could only guarantee him starts against lefties (in the outfield). Somebody like him or Juan Rivera would boost our bench, enable us to platoon Ryan Church, and provide cover if something goes wrong with Murphy, Church, or Delgado. I'm not sure that would be enough, but nobody jumped at the chance to trade for him. Edgy DC Dec 15 2008 07:35 AM Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder. MFS62 Dec 15 2008 07:45 AM ="Edgy DC":1omuczeq]Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder.[/quote:1omuczeq] I agree. B'sides, if the Mets sign Cora, we might be subjected to pictures of him with his brother. I'd get flashbacks of images of Joe Torre and his sister. Hide the eyes of the chill'uns. Miles gets my vote. Later MFS62 Dec 15 2008 08:54 AM Righthander Chan Ho Park said in a press conference in Seoul today that he has agreed to a 1-year contract with the Phillies. According to the Korea Times, Park, 35, will have a base salary of $2.5 million with incentives that could push the total package to $5 million. There had been reports that the Phillies were close to coming to terms with Park to improve their bullpen. However, the pitcher said he opted for the Phillies in part because they viewed him as a starter. �I was a little worried about the Citizens Bank Park, the home of the Phillies, which is hitter-friendly,� he said. "But as they considered me a starter, I signed with Philadelphia.� http://www.philly.com/philly/b...l_for_Park.html Later Frayed Knot Dec 15 2008 05:29 PM The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either. Centerfield Dec 15 2008 07:32 PM It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell." themetfairy Dec 15 2008 07:37 PM ="Centerfield":38yhgguz]It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell."[/quote:38yhgguz] I love you, Man. Your posts always make me laugh. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2008 08:19 PM ="Frayed Knot":uz2je510]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:uz2je510] Go, Theo, go. Frayed Knot Dec 16 2008 06:36 AM Phils re-up 95 y/o Jamie Moyer for 2 years. OK, he's really only 46. Fman99 Dec 16 2008 06:40 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2wijd3xl]="Frayed Knot":2wijd3xl]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:2wijd3xl] Go, Theo, go.[/quote:2wijd3xl] I would not be surprised if Houston was the team not being mentioned. He pitched well down there for them and they don't have a whole lot of starting pitching depth after Oswalt. Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 06:46 AM I'm OK with Pedro. I said it. Just, you know, sign a bunch of other guys also. Farmer Ted Dec 16 2008 08:51 AM I have no problem with Petey in the #5 slot to start the season. I'm more worried with the durability of Maine and whether the other teams catch up with Pelfry's stuff. metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 09:28 AM Any day the Phils resign Jamie Moyer and add Chan Ho Park is a good day for us! Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:31 AM The Phils trying to get two more years out of an ancient lefty strikes me as one more good reason for us to Burrell up. DocTee Dec 19 2008 09:14 AM Knucksie in Dixie: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/18/SPMQ14QQMI.DTL John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 09:31 AM Never made any sense to me that Lance Neikro wasn't a knuckleballer to begin with. IIRC, he had a big hit vs. the Mets (was it a game-winning HR or something?) when he first came up with the Giants and I naturally assumed he was on his way to major stardom. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Fireballer Daniel Cabrera goes to the Nats, 1 year, 2.6 million. Valadius Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:57 AM ="Valadius":2pz740g9]Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case.[/quote:2pz740g9] I think people were saying that about Ollie Perez before the Pirates sent him to us. Talented, strikeout pitcher, control issues, high ERA, etc. metsguyinmichigan Dec 21 2008 10:29 PM OK, now both the Angels and the Red Sox say they're not going after Texiera anymore. Has Boras finall pushed people over the edge, or is this all just negotiating ploys? Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:05 AM The Angels are claiming that their offer is "off the table" and that there'll be no further negotiating - which at least doesn't sound like a ploy. Boston, for its part, isn't claiming that, only that they think they're not going to be his choice due to other teams raising their offers beyond where they're willing to go. That leaves Teixeira in the position of either taking Boston's "low" offer or going the Baltimore/Washington route which kind of flies in the face of his 'I wanna be a contendah' pledge. Supposedly this was going to be wrapped up by Xmas but it wouldn't be the first time Boras has over-played his hand. Benjamin Grimm Dec 22 2008 07:07 AM There's still Baltimore and Washington. Boras isn't quite out of options yet. metsguyinmichigan Dec 22 2008 07:19 AM Speaking of Boras... Murray Chass MurrayChass.com Now that CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have signed, other pitchers on the free-agent list are expected to follow. Derek Lowe is probably next on the list in terms of interest, but the interest has been all talk and no offers. His agent's asking price is said to be the reason. Scott Boras has told clubs he wants Barry Zito money for the 35-year-old Lowe, which means $18 million a year. Clubs interested in Lowe have not rushed forward with such offers. The slow-moving market may be just what the Mets want. ...Barry Zito isn't worth Barry Zito money. But Derek Lowe? Is he nuts? Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 01:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 22 2008 02:20 PM I'm not sure I'd support the Mets spending $18 million a year for two Derek Lowes. Valadius Dec 22 2008 02:04 PM The MOST I'd spend on Derek Lowe is $8 million a year. $18 million is beyond rationality. Willets Point Dec 22 2008 03:01 PM Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone. MFS62 Dec 23 2008 07:36 AM ="Willets Point":2bf2t6s1]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:2bf2t6s1] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later smg58 Dec 23 2008 11:23 AM Guys who can consistently give you 200+ IP with 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA are worth plenty more than 8 million. I wouldn't go four years with Lowe, on account of his age, but I'd much rather have him than Ollie. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 03:04 PM ="MFS62":3rvs0psj]="Willets Point":3rvs0psj]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:3rvs0psj] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later[/quote:3rvs0psj] Just a joke about Lowe's rumored love of the drink. Valadius Dec 26 2008 09:01 PM Randy Johnson will pursue his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant. Nymr83 Dec 27 2008 01:15 AM he could it be cutting it close with the type of run support the giants give their starters. he needs 5 wins, it took Matt Cain all year to get 8 wins for the Giants with an ERA+ the same as Johnson's last year. Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 05:08 AM 'Randy Johnson is a Giant' is somewhat of a redundant headline. He's probably been called that since he was in the 4th grade. On the other hand, there must have been plenty in in the Castro district of SF who were excited to hear that someone called 'The Big Unit' was coming to their city. DocTee Dec 27 2008 09:16 AM FK with a late entry for post o' the year. The Giants have had a nice offseason (Renteria, Affeldt, Howry, Johnson) and if local rumors of them adding Adam Dunn are correct, they could be players in a weak West. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 27 2008 09:19 AM I agree. You can definitely quibble with the wisdom of a team's particular moves but I like to see franchises who've had bad years making a bunch of moves in the offseason, whether they are effective or not. Like the Giants... and the MFYs... Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 03:49 PM X-Rockie, X-Astro OFer Wily Tavarez signs a two-year deal with Cincy. He's good at stealing bases and also .... ummmm, I'll think of something. And Kevin Mensch heads for Japan. The Japanese just might get a look at his monsterously huge head and add a second rising sun to their flag. I think that thing has its own gravitational pull. Frayed Knot Dec 29 2008 07:20 AM Penny for your Sox ... Brad Penny to Boston for 1 yr/$5mil -- pending a physical which could yet throw a wrench into the works. As mentioned elsewhere, this could keep them from chasing the likes of Lowe, Wolf, Ollie, etc. thus reducing the demand pool by one more team. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 11:20 AM This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:29 PM The Cubs sign Aaron Miles for two years, then trade DeRosa to the Indians for three low level (not even top 20) prospects. At least it's not the Phillies, but that's one mild upgrade over Castillo and one significant upgrade who found takers at prices we could have afforded. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:30 PM Cubs 2B Mark DeRosa - long rumored as part of a Jake Peavy trade - dealt to Cleveland for a trio of minor league pitchers. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:36 PM Fuentes got two years at $17.5M, plus a club option. Rotoworld says "Fuentes almost certainly took less money to play close to home," but I'm not sure who was competing with the Angels. Frayed Knot Jan 02 2009 05:47 AM Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day! Nymr83 Jan 02 2009 06:41 AM ="Frayed Knot":1xejc7ja]Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day![/quote:1xejc7ja] Better news- nobody really cares about him anymore, including it seems the GMs of all 30 teams. DocTee Jan 02 2009 04:46 PM Tony Clark returns to D-Baggs: 1 year, 800K. metirish Jan 02 2009 05:34 PM Watching MLB Network Hot Stove and they are reporting that San Francisco have offered Manny Ramirez a four year deal. Dodgers and A Jones have agreed to defer most of his money owed likely leading to him playing elsewhere. Scott Proctor to the Marlins for one year. Ashie62 Jan 03 2009 12:33 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2ytj1poh]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels.[/quote:2ytj1poh] This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker metsmarathon Jan 03 2009 12:40 PM ="Ashie62":hblnrkgs]Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker[/quote:hblnrkgs] i don't believe that for a second. Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 12:58 PM ="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. Kong76 Jan 03 2009 01:36 PM Maybe the three closer thing is the way to go after the last two seasons. Ashie62 Jan 05 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC"]="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. True..my impatience caused me to jump over Krod & Putz KP DOOTY...I'm just frustrated that the odds of landing a power corner and a decent SP , Sheets, Garland, Lowe..are diminishing and pray the Mets are not newly cash short Burrell has a rep for being a prick but if the Rays can land him at 16 million for 2 years I then wonder why the Mets wouldn't top that and not have to expect 150 games from Murphy and even let Murphy learn 2B at AAA as an experiment. smg58 Jan 05 2009 03:15 PM The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one. MFS62 Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM ="smg58":1gnuo0ct]The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one.[/quote:1gnuo0ct] Can't wait to see him go head-to-head with Pinella. Later smg58 Jan 07 2009 05:51 AM And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 06:20 AM ="smg58":162h2ehz]And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price.[/quote:162h2ehz] Makes ya crazy. Geez. I mean, about Hairston. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 07:18 AM Maybe Hairston gets a chance to start in Cincy and couldn't be sure of that here. Never did even hear a rumor of them looking at him though. Also: - Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:42 AM Andy Pettitte turns down one year and $10 million from the Yanks in a declining market. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 10:10 AM Yomiuri Giant Koji Uehara signs with Bal'more for two years. Reports say that he's the team's first Japanese player, but they forget Nippo-Hawaiian Len Sakata. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 10:41 AM Len was American. smg58 Jan 07 2009 10:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":2gsb44fr]- Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino[/quote:2gsb44fr] I'll laugh if Pavano gives the Indians 27 starts (i.e., more starts than he gave the MFY's in four years). The Marquis deal appears to leave Jorge de la Rosa out of the rotation in Colorado. I'd see what the asking price for him is; he finished very strongly last year, and he's at least as good as Tim Redding. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 11:01 AM ="Centerfield":biqnwx39]Len was American.[/quote:biqnwx39] As I said. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 12:00 PM From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly MFS62 Jan 07 2009 12:14 PM ="Frayed Knot":3hnipcdi]From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly[/quote:3hnipcdi] Pure insurance with Utley out for the early part of the year due to surgery. Later metirish Jan 07 2009 08:04 PM From MetsBlog Mike Fitzpatrick of the Associated Press believes the Mets have made an offer to free-agent RHP Tim Redding, who was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 08:56 PM I'll give Redding this: with one inning and six runs, he may be the worst performing Yankee ever. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 09:06 PM Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox. Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2009 10:03 PM If Rocco Baldelli can be reasonably healthy, he could be a great pick up for the Red Sox. I hope he is healthy and has a great season for the Sox. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gx2svou]Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox.[/quote:3gx2svou] And quite possibly Smoltz too! Not official yet but several outlets are reporting it's 'bout a done deal. I guess they're promising him a starting job - don't think he would have jumped otherwise. Other reports have Trevor Hoffman going to the Brews ... although this is only one day after others had him headed to the Dodgers. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 07:46 AM Sort of a homecoming for Smoltz. Didn't he start his career with the Braves when they were still playing in Boston? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM No, the Tigers. Anywhoo, oughta soitenly remove Boston from the list of potential Lowe suitors (and cause me some concern too: Why don't any of Lowe's former employers want him back?) smg58 Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM The additions of Smoltz and Brad Penny probably take the Sox out of the discussions for Derek Lowe. Assuming Baldelli gets something like what Hairston got, I'd be a little annoyed that we didn't give him a look. We do need another righthanded bat. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:57 AM Yeah, I was half-hoping for Baldelli too. He's not a great player and has played fewer games in the last two seasons than Alou had in the two before we got him. But if this problem of his has finally been diagnosed correctly he could be a useful guy to have around. But Omar seems to be on this 'one problem at a time' schedule where nothing can even be talked about until the starter question is answered. metirish Jan 08 2009 08:01 AM Did bucket mis-read Ben's post? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 08:02 AM Yes. Yes I did. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 08:14 AM I almost did too because I sometimes confuse the Smoltz trade with the Bagwell one from Boston. The Smoltz from Detroit for Denny Alexander trade happened around the same era as Bagwell for Larry Anderson. Both were done for pennant push help and in each case the minor leaguers were home-town guys (Smoltz is from Mich, Bags from Conn) who turned into HoF possibilities. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 08:17 AM Doyle Alexander. Now Denny McLain or somebody is getting into the conflation. metirish Jan 08 2009 10:25 AM Looking at a potential nightmare with outfield defense the MFY's are apparently looking to trade Swisher and Nady. Yankees fielding offers for Nady, Swisher Posted by: Jon Heyman The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There's been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there's really no way to trade him. A logjam at the corners was created when the Yankees surprised a lot of folks and signed Mark Teixeira to an eight-year, $180 million contract. Swisher previously had been penciled in as the Yankees' first baseman but now becomes part of a crowded mix of accomplished corner outfielders. Swisher is a versatile player and can play some center field, as well. Some National League teams may be interested. However, Nady's trade value is higher after a better offensive season, so he may be just as likely to be dealt. Nady, acquired by the Yankees in a midseason trade with the Pirates, combined to hit .305 with 25 home runs and 97 RBIs for the year, while Swisher finished at .219 with 24 home runs and 69 RBIs for the White Sox before being dealt to the Yankees after the season Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 02:09 PM i'd sure take Nady back, to split time with Church, Murphy and Delgado. But no way the Yanx trade him cross town. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:30 PM You leave Tatis out of that mix. Nady gives you what Tatis gives you, only more and probably better and definitely younger. Tatis' only advantage is playing third. I'd love a Nady around because I think the best way to get something like last year's productivity out of Tatis is to make him earn every at-bat. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 02:43 PM Maybe Murphy will do that, but I'm not counting on it. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:46 PM What's going down, and I think a lot of us feel it, is that a lot of things went kind of right in Omar's offense that could have easily gone wronger, and he's kind of seeming to kind of be counting on a lot of those same thingies to go right again. Fans be pessemistic creatures, of course. Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 03:21 PM Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard. attgig Jan 08 2009 03:29 PM ="Vic Sage":37m9y64n]Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard.[/quote:37m9y64n] and you have a wild card at 1b, so it's not even half a lineup. nobody has faith in schnied to produce offensively, and while castro COULD provide some pop, he just gets hurt too often (he must be the worst backup catcher in the league). 2b, nobody has faith in castillo, except he's saying all the right things. and Church... will his head be screwed on straight? it'll be an interesting few more weeks before spring training. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 03:35 PM I agree with Vic, including about left field, but I'd be okay with giving Murphy/Tatis a chance to shine again. But in doing that, you have to protect yourself by beefing up some of the other positions. And as yet, the Mets haven't done anything towards that end. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 07:12 PM Ramon Castro, not the worst backup catcher in the league. DocTee Jan 09 2009 09:42 AM John Smoltz, Red Sock. metirish Jan 09 2009 12:35 PM Swisher the Yanks' preferred candidate over Nady BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com January 9, 2009 In their current roster logjam, the Yankees would strongly prefer to trade Xavier Nady and retain Nick Swisher, a person familiar with the club's thinking said yesterday. General manager Brian Cashman has received more requests for Swisher than for Nady. With spring training more than a month away and the season opener just about three months away, however, there is no imperative to execute a quick trade. The Mets enjoyed having Nady on their club for the first four months of the 2006 season, and they inquired about him last July, when the Yankees wound up getting him from Pittsburgh. For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 01:54 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 09 2009 02:02 PM Swisher switch-hits, and is better and more versatile defensively. He's also signed for the next few years which could be either good or bad depending on whether he regains his hitting from last season's off year. Nady is more likely to hit better (though walk less) and would only be for one year at a price to be determined by arbitration then would be a FA after that. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 09 2009 01:59 PM If we weren't already loaded with lefthanded hitting outfielders, I'd take Godzilla as a LH bench masher in the Franco/Staub mold. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 02:04 PM As long as the Cranks would pay 90% of the freight and expect nothing back in return, sure. (OK, maybe 70% with a throw-in going the other way would do) Ashie62 Jan 09 2009 05:10 PM I feel safe to say Tatis has had his middle aged career year..I wouldn't put too high a ceiling there. Daniel Murphy needs more seasoning and I still advocate a year at AAA to learn 2B Mr. Nady..wasn't he a Met who know has Yankee cooties? metirish Jan 11 2009 03:46 PM Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Fman99 Jan 11 2009 07:52 PM ="metirish"]Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Pedro really looked spent in 2008, after having a respectable September prior. I don't think he has much in the tank and I would not miss all the drama. Rockin' Doc Jan 11 2009 09:29 PM Marlins not interested in signing Pedro By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- Don't look for Pedro Martinez to wind up with the Marlins. A day after a report stated the Marlins were in the mix for the 37-year-old right-hander, a league source confirmed to MLB.com on Sunday that Florida has zero interest. Reports in the Miami Herald, Palm Beach Post and SunSentinel also ruled out the possibility of Martinez joining the club. On Saturday night, a report on ESPNdeportes.com stated the Marlins had discussions with agent Fernando Cuza regarding Martinez. The report added Florida may have begun preliminary contract talks, and that the two sides were expected to continue talking this week. As of late Sunday afternoon, the Marlins were not considered a possible fit. Martinez has a home in Miami, and he has expressed privately a desire to pitch for the Marlins. On Monday, Cuza is expected to have discussions with the Mets about a possible return to New York. The right-hander also is expected to test the free-agent market. Hampered by injuries last year, Martinez was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts. He threw 109 innings. Working with minimal financial resources, the Marlins are looking for affordable free agents. The team did explore adding veteran Carl Pavano, who signed with the Indians. The Marlins are prepared to head into Spring Training with a rotation that includes Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller and Anibal Sanchez. Nolasco, eliglbe for arbitration, still has not signed. Florida continues to explore depth at catcher. The team is looking for low-priced options there. A free agent that could be a fit is Ivan Rodriguez, but only if his price tag continues to drop this month. Frayed Knot Jan 12 2009 07:01 AM IOW, the earlier story was an agent plant. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 08:20 AM Yeah, use the threat of the Daddy Warbucks Marlins to trigger a false bidding war. That's the ticket. Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:09 AM I think that Pedro had far more interest in the Marlins than they had in him. I believe that Pedro is desperate to play another season, but I don't think teams throughout the league are very interested in signing him. Pedro was once a dominant, HOF caliber pitcher, but he seems to be the one person that doesn't see how far removed from his former greatness he now is. metirish Jan 12 2009 11:17 AM If Pedro Martinez retired tomorrow he would surely be in the HOF at first ballot , wouldn't he? Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:21 AM I was not inferring that Pedro Martinez was not worthy of enshrinement in Coopperstown. He has had a tremendous career and was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in MLB for several seasons. I would vote for him (if I had a vote) when his name comes up on the HOF ballot. I was simply stating that he is not nearly the dominant pitcher he once was. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 11:22 AM I think he's pretty aware of what happened last year. If he didn't still believe he could turn it around, he wouldn't be the great pitcher he is. What's more, I believe he could turn it around. In his prime, he had an unprecedented four killer pitches, so it's not like he was fastball-reliant. It's a matter of finding what he can do with what's left of his fastball and using it to complement the rest of his arsenal. That's a far ways from saying he will return to a productive level, but I'm certain he can. Glavine continued to pitch effectively with a powder puff fastball and a change. While his control was still very good, Pedro's has always been even better. And if I'm the Mets, I'm willing to spend some change to find out. Giving him Redding's money with an automatically vesting bonus year of $9 million if he gets 180 innings? Yeah, go for it. I'm certain he can do as well as Redding in 2009, and a damn fine bet to do better. The only thing Redding has over him is a better doctor's report. metirish Jan 12 2009 05:05 PM Michael Young wants out of Texas , can play 2nd base. I should add that Heyman just said on the Hot stove that he has %62 million left on his big contract. smg58 Jan 12 2009 05:22 PM Young's expensive, and the dropoff in his numbers over the past three years has been precipitous. Even if they took Castillo it would still be a $10M payroll hit, and he's just not that good anymore. Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 01:14 PM Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 01:52 PM Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year? Someone will be able to pick him up for minimum wage, and they may get a hell of a bargain at the Dodgers expense. metirish Jan 15 2009 01:56 PM Jones was on MLB Network the other night talking about how he would love to go back to the Braves. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 02:01 PM No doubt. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 02:28 PM i'd give andruw a shot, for minimum wage... Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 05:45 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

The postseason shares are funded by the "Player's Pool," which is made up of 60% of gross ticket revenue from the first three games of each division series, and the first 4 games of each LCS and World Series. The player's pool is then allocated as follows: WS Winner (1 team) - 36% WS Loser (1 team) - 24% LCS Losers (2 teams) - 12% each Division Series Losers (4 teams) - 3% each Non-Wild Card Second Place Teams (4 teams) - 1% each Source for much of this info: http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/faq.jsp#playoff Back when there were only 2 playoff teams, instead of LCS losers and Division Series losers getting the money, the pool was split to include second, third, fourth place, etc. -- such that the top half of the teams in the league got money and the bottom half didn't. Such is the origin of the now-antiquated terms "first division" and "second division." Keith Hernandez is one of the few people who still uses the term, often referring to a bad team as a "second division ballclub." Anyway, the distribution of money from the players' pool is a players-only vote, chaired by the team's union player rep. I believe the manager can be invited, at the player's discretion, to provide recommendations. Often the voting is based strictly on service time with the club that year. Players generally vote full, half, or quarter shares, and can also vote cash awards in lieu of a percentage share. When player salaries were much lower, a "playoff share" was a big deal and a huge supplement to their income -- it could, for example, be the difference between needing to work an offseason job or not. In present-day times, a $9,000 playoff share is going to mean peanuts to players with a minimum salary of $400,000. It *is* however going to be very significant to the trainers, clubhouse staff, etc. whose salaries are much lower. Their "playoff shares" still mean a lot. --- My recollection is that in 2004, the Red Sox players voted Nomar a three-quarters share.

Probably not until late February/early March. They'll first do the "lottery" for the opening night and games vs. MFYs, then the public sale a week or two later. I think ticket demand is not going to be too bad (economy; 2nd straight year of barely missing playoffs, etc).

]I gotta say, as long as I can get to a few games, I'm excited over a new park. As a function of schedule or a function of price? We had some long and hard discussions about what to do with this new stadium. Once you get past the fact that it's a minimum of $100/seat to be anywhere on the infield (aside from the upper level)... Still, in the end, I found myself a lot more excited than I thought I would to be buying tickets today. My impression is that after being accustomed to Shea for so long it will take a very long time for the novelty of the new park to wear off.

You have to land in the field of play. If the player landed on the other side of the wall, it's a home run.

Avoiding Hampton's failures and injuries certainly turned out well but I don't think it can be said with any certainty that those same failures (or even injuries) would have happened had he remained with the Mets. As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck.

="Frayed Knot":2s8gnkll]NYers (and others) have to get over this, particularly since it was the best (non) move of the decade for us.[/quote:2s8gnkll] Because of Wright and Heilman, or because Hampton bombed out in Colorado? Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 11:30 AM You don't have to choose. Throw in also that Hampton's failures and injuries came at a very dear price. Gwreck Dec 02 2008 11:43 AM Avoiding Hampton's failures and injuries certainly turned out well but I don't think it can be said with any certainty that those same failures (or even injuries) would have happened had he remained with the Mets. As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 11:52 AM ="Gwreck":3mh1lucm]As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck.[/quote:3mh1lucm] Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir? These guys haven't outpaced Aaron Heilman? Really, whether you consider the actual outcome or the average of all the hosts of possible outcomes, the Mets made the right move there every time. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 12:13 PM ="Gwreck"]Avoiding Hampton's failures and injuries certainly turned out well but I don't think it can be said with any certainty that those same failures (or even injuries) would have happened had he remained with the Mets. Certainly couldn't have been predicted his troubles to the degree that they occured; Hampton was still young, athletic and without any kind of unreasonable injury history. But he was also a guy with only 2 or 3 good years getting a lengthy contract at superstar money during a bubble market all of which made it an almost impossible standard to live up to. One of the best lessons from 'Moneyball' was that it's usually easier to recover from the player you fail to sign than it is to recover from the one you sign at the wrong price. ]As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck. I was strictly thinking about not being stuck with his contract when I talked about 'best non-move' even though that part involved more "luck" than the picks IMO. Even though high picks are no guarantee, the more good ones you have the better your chances and eventually you'll find gold under one of those rocks you overturn. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 07:25 AM Joel Shoiman sez: 1) Mets "officials" are denying a hot rumor about a blockbuster deal bringing both Bobby Jenks and Jermaine Dye from the White Sox, with Fernando Martinez going to Chicago. He describes Martinez as "all but untouchable." I think he's about as untouchable as Lastings Milledge, that is, he's untouchable up until the point where describing him as untouchable won't increase his value. Newsday pretty much sums it up the same way. 2) Mets like Putz as much as if not more than Rodriguez or Fuentes, but other teams want a little Putz of their own. 3) They won't go over three years guaranteed for either of the big ticket closers. (Nothing new there, I think.) 4) They're willing to go for Kerry Wood for two years (first I heard about Wood). 5) They turned away Tampa who tried to deal them Chad Bradford, because, like Tampa, they don't want to pay a ROOGy $3.5 mils. Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2008 08:00 AM That Jenks/Dye for Fernando Martinez deal, if there's any truth to it, must involve additional players from the Mets, right? If it's a straight two-for-one I can't see the Mets not doing it. metirish Dec 04 2008 08:07 AM Omar would be a putz to do that deal. Gwreck Dec 04 2008 08:23 AM ="Edgy DC":1qe4vw0z]5) They turned away Tampa who tried to deal them Chad Bradford, because, like Tampa, they don't want to pay a ROOGy $3.5 mils.[/quote:1qe4vw0z] In 2009, Bradford would be in year 3 of that contract (the 3 year deal that the Mets refused to give him but gave to Schoeneweis). I'd have to believe that not getting Bradford would be more of a function of his potential role already filled by Joe Smith than just a few million bucks. Gwreck Dec 04 2008 08:34 AM ="Edgy DC":1kf4rwd2]Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir?[/quote:1kf4rwd2] All of their success was elsewhere, but I suppose that doesn't really matter when evaluating the quality of the pick. Those ones weren't too bad. HahnSolo Dec 04 2008 10:20 AM Boston Globe reporting that the Phillies have made an offer to Derek Lowe. No details of the offer, but apparently another team has also made an offer. [url:27icv0p0]http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/12/04/teams_starting_to_make_pitches/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Red+Sox+news[/url:27icv0p0] Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:24 AM Lowe may be the free agent I unwant the most this offseason. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:31 AM I read today that the Giants are mulling an offer to C.C. in the $100 million plus for five years range , he is from an area close to San Francisco. smg58 Dec 04 2008 10:33 AM I see no point in dealing for a closer if the market is so glutted with options that won't cost players. Keep in mind that Putz is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a significant injury and an off year. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:37 AM I hear you. But, as a trade-hater myself, I'm sure the Mets see the advantages of dealing as (a) not giving up draft picks, ( getting a guy at yesterday's salary rather than tomorrow's, and (c) getting a guy who is closer to the expiration of his deal, protecting them from having to pay for nothing in year four, like they are with Wagner. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:39 AM Numbers from Newsday regarding Fernando Martinez ] Martinez, who turned 20 in October, is looking impressive again in the Dominican Winter League after another injury-plagued season at Double-A Binghamton. Martinez was batting .323 with four home runs, 19 RBIs and a .382 on-base percentage in 28 games for Leones del Escogido. Compared with his .282 average for the B-Mets, along with eight homers in 86 games, Martinez appears ready for a breakthrough season DocTee Dec 04 2008 02:04 PM SF finally gets their man: Edgar Renteria, 2 years, $18.5 million Busy off-season for the G-men: Renteria, Howry and Affeldt and now, apparently, maybe Sabathia Frayed Knot Dec 04 2008 02:23 PM House-cleaning Pads deal rapidly-declining Khalil Green to the Cards Russel Branyan signs with Seattle John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:27 PM Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Tough couple of minutes for talented but enigmatic white shortstops. smg58 Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You can't fault the Giants for being aggressive when everybody else is cautious. Affeldt is a very nice pickup for two years. Howry I'm not so sure about; they already have a deeper pen than people realize, and Sergio Romo is a guy to watch. (PS I wonder what the Giants would want for Romo.) As for Renteria, it depends on which version shows up. But even the 2008 version is an upgrade at the position, so they don't have a whole lot to lose. I certainly wouldn't fault them for going after Sabathia, either. You get the sense he's waiting for somebody to at least try and compete with the Yankees. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You're really into Jack Wilson, aren't you. metirish Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":30uw5ppo]Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit[/quote:30uw5ppo] Don't go posting "Jackie Wilson Said " now. Valadius Dec 04 2008 02:49 PM Jack Wilson is the single ugliest player in professional baseball. soupcan Dec 04 2008 02:58 PM 'What you talkin' 'bout, Vlad?' Valadius Dec 04 2008 03:59 PM seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 05:15 PM Currently, yes. All-time, he's not even in the Top Ten. Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 05:30 PM Aren't you forgetting someone? Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 05:58 PM Johnny Dickshot is the only guy in the BB-r.com database with the nickname "Ugly." seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 06:42 PM ="Nymr83"]Aren't you forgetting someone? Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 08:06 PM theres no need to post a second picture of the guy... metirish Dec 05 2008 06:58 AM From the Snooze ] The Braves made their first proposal to Burnett Thursday, according to sources, offering him a four-year deal worth roughly $64 million with a vesting option for a fifth year based on the number of innings pitched. The Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles are still interested in Burnett, but the fifth-year option may be enough to put the Braves over the top. Good luck to them with that. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:19 AM How far away are the Braves from being a contender? From what I recall of last year, they have some doin' to do before I'm going to start worrying about them. In other Hot Stove news, SNY's Mets Hot Stove Report is going to air four (count 'em, four!) live shows next week from the winter meetings. Apparently they're expecting a lot of fast-breaking news, but it's possible that this might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again. Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:28 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":e413zzsl]This might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again.[/quote:e413zzsl] I think I missed that one. What happened there? Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:29 AM Sometimes I forget how old I am. The Al Capone thing was from before you were born, Val. Here's Wiki's article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone%27s_Vault Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:35 AM Wow. How did Geraldo Rivera maintain any credibility whatsoever after that? Not like Fox News has any credibility, but still. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 07:37 AM "The Mystery of Al Capone's Vault was a one-time live American television special broadcast in syndication in April 1986 hosted by Geraldo Rivera." One time? Somebody's forgetting Rivera's opening of the Andrea Doria vault. soupcan Dec 05 2008 08:01 AM I remember that - all the hype about the vault. Then, the vault is opened and Geraldo's looking inside and...... There's nothing there! Too funny. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 08:07 AM I remember a quote from Geraldo, years later, that went something like, "If only there was SOMETHING in that damn vault!" I was hoping the Wiki article would include that quote, but it didn't. He had major egg on his face for quite a while after that. It was, as soupcan said, very funny. metirish Dec 06 2008 05:54 PM Olney reports that Furcal turned down a take it or leave four year deal from Oakland worth $35 million-$40 million. What market does he think is out there for him? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:23 PM Last year's economy? seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 07:16 PM One of my favorite players on the move, as Ryan Freel and two prospects go to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez. metirish Dec 09 2008 07:18 PM My sources are telling me that the MFY's will better the Braves money for Burrnett and go the extra year. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:03 AM This, from esspin: ]Minaya: Mets interested in re-signing Pedro, plan to meet with agent The New York Mets are interested in retaining Pedro Martinez and plan to meet with the Dominican pitcher's agent, GM Omar Minaya informed ESPNdeportes.com. "We have interest in him. We're going to talk to his agent when we have the opportunity," Minaya said Tuesday, the second day of the winter meetings. Minaya said that he has not yet scheduled a formal meeting with Fernando Cuza, Martinez's agent, or Martinez. Martinez, however, said he isn't ready to start thinking about where he wants to play next season. "I've said it previously and I have said to my agents that they do not speak to me of contracts until January," Martinez said Tuesday. Martinez, 37, also likely won't decide whether to pitch for the Dominican Republic in next year's World Baseball Classic until he reaches a contract agreement with a major league team. The three-time Cy Young winner endured the worst season of his 16-year career in 2008. Martinez went 5-6 and 5.61 ERA in 20 outings and was affected by various injuries and personal problems. Why? Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 08:08 AM Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. If he's cheap (which I doubt) and if you could bench him if he stunk (which would be tricky), it's not a bad insurance plan. I don't think the answer to either of those ifs will work in the team's interest, though. DocTee Dec 10 2008 11:23 AM Alan Embree to Colorado, lessening their need for a LOOGY and kiboshing the proposed Heiman/Feliciano for Street swap. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 11:44 AM Well that's good for us in the sense that Omah was holding back on including Feliciano in the first place. Now he can throw in Duaner Sanchez instead and call it a dealeeeo. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 12:56 PM Rumor has it that the Mets and Dodgers are discussing Juan Pierre. (Seems to be coming from Fox Sports.) Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him. The Mets have a guy like that... Would the Dodgers have any use at all for Castillo? If so, then maybe the two teams could trade headaches. Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:58 PM I'd rather have Castillo than Pierre sharpie Dec 10 2008 01:04 PM Agreed. I'd hate to waste an outfield spot on a speed-only guy. Valadius Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM What the hell do we need Pierre for? We have a center fielder. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM Good lord, Juan Pierre and Pedro? Haven't they already met their quota of guys who suck? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:14 PM Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package. Other than that, he can revitatlize our long-since-interrupted Outfielders from Mobile, tradition, and maybe cancel some of the kharmic dept for trading Amos Otis. He puts the bat on the ball witout GiDPing. But he's looking a lot like a pinch-runner on the wrong side of 30. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:16 PM ="Edgy DC":1vw8dz0f]Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package.[/quote:1vw8dz0f] But if reports are true that the Mets don't want to venture too far over last year's payroll, I wouldn't want to add on his contract. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:17 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":g0bx2ilm]Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him.[/quote:g0bx2ilm] HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 02:36 PM I'm still on the negative side of meh with him. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 02:55 PM Well, you sure don't see me tossing my pom-poms in the air. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 02:58 PM Me neither. Pierre and Castillo made a nice pair on the 2002 Marlins, but that was a long time ago. Remember how they used to abuse Piazza? Almost unfair. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 03:00 PM What I wonder, though, is if trading Castillo for Pierre would make the Mets more willing to spend to upgrade at second base. It doesn't really make any sense, but it's possible that they might see it that way. (They'd still be increasing the payroll, but at least they wouldn't be paying Castillo to sit on the bench. And maybe they'd get something out of Pierre. Or at least, more than they expect from Castillo.) Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 03:40 PM Luis Castillo is a useful major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Juan Pierre is a useless major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Castillo is a below average second baseman who can't slug. Pierre's a terrible center fielder (or an average left fielder) who can't hit. Endy Chavez is a better player than Juan Pierre. Almost all major leaguers are better players than Juan Pierre. The one thing he can do is steal bases, and he's not very good at that. Here are his CS% numbers, per year, for his career: 01 27% 02 20% 03 24% 04 38% 05 23% 06 26% 07 19% 08 23% For is career, that's 25%, the break-even point. If he's even a little bit off his career average, he's a liability on the base paths. Pierre is exactly the kind of player you can't hand to a manager. He has a reputation as a good defender, a leadoff type hitter and, perhaps, a "winner." Managers give these kind of players way too many plate appearances and innings in the field based on reputation while the team's performance suffers. bmfc1 Dec 10 2008 07:37 PM From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez. metirish Dec 10 2008 07:38 PM Can I get a WOW? metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM From KR 9:32 p.m. � Source: Tigers to aqcuire Edwin Jackson The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. Tampa Bay, with David Price on the way, had a surplus of starting pitching. Jackson, 25, was 14-11 this year with a 4.25 ERA. In exchange the Rays get a 24-year-old, left-handed-hitting corner outfielder who hit 12 homers in 242 at-bats. -- Ed Price metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM ="bmfc1":3tnm13me]From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.[/quote:3tnm13me] Just so this is not lost on the last page. Gwreck Dec 10 2008 07:55 PM Putz is extremely valuable but won't come cheap: $5 million for '09 and $8.6 million club option for '10 (with a $1M buyout). The other 3 players combined make less than $4 million. I think we'd miss Chavez a lot. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 07:56 PM I'd love to know how he would feel about going from a closer to a setup guy. Would hate to bring him in only to have him griping about his role. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 08:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2008 08:12 PM Chavez isn't going to help us if he hits like he did last year. I love him and all. Meantime I think three guys are all you wanna surrender for a single reliever, especially one coming off a poor season like Putz (edit - poor for him). seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 08:09 PM Heilman, Chavez, Carp for Putz? Yes. Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Joe Smith for Putz? No. smg58 Dec 10 2008 08:36 PM I'd be worried about trusting workhorse innings to a guy coming off a serious injury, but when he's healthy Putz is as good a reliever as anybody. And the Mets do not appear to be giving up anybody they might miss. The Mets need a righthanded reserve outfielder more than they'd need Chavez. I'd make sure JJ gets a thorough physical, but if he passes, I'm for it. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:30 PM davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. One thing about these meetings I find interesting is that every year various baseball types go there looking for a gig , from prominent free agents to former players, I read that Bobby Meacham is there selling himself as is Lee Mazzilli. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:57 PM Minaya on getting more offense. ] "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." smg58 Dec 12 2008 04:49 AM ="metirish"]davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. Marquis' ERA+ last year (99) was comparable with those of Perez (100) and Maine (101). I might try to be ambitious here, offering Anderson, Feliciano, and a second-tier prospect for Marquis and Mike Fontenot. We'd take on more money, but we'd fill two needs and keep the Cubs from revisting sending DeRosa to the Phillies if the Peavy deal gets resurrected. But Schoeneweis for Marquis would be a perfectly acceptable fallback. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 05:07 AM I'm not that enamored with Marquis. MFY fan, you know. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 06:26 AM All this talk about Marquis and Pierre makes me think Omar loves Frenchies. bmfc1 Dec 12 2008 07:06 AM Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 07:33 AM ="bmfc1":2vohih50]Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere.[/quote:2vohih50] See now right there's a reason to not part with Shoeneweis, if you needed one. Phils are going to be even more loaded with LH hitting than last year. I think maybe the Mets go get Burrell, what do you say? He's streaky and a bit of a dumb jock but he hits, he's righty and it sticks it the Phils (he's definitely better than Ibanez). I suppose Marquis would be alright near the end of the rotation but I'd hate for them to be fighting to get their money's worth with him. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 07:45 AM I don't have a problem with Marquis being a four or five pitcher; that's pretty much what the Mets are looking for anyway. It would be nice to get someone who would be number 2, and bump Maine and Pelfrey each down a slot, but that's not all that realistic. I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:47 AM Ryan Howard, who Marty Noble insists was the MVP last year, went a m odest .219 / .313 / .479 // .792 vs the Mets last year. If you've got to decide which lefty to keep, consider that he didn't reach base once against Feliciano in seven plate appearances (four Ks), while Schoeneweis was perfect against him in five confrontations, with two Ks. Wait, that doesn't help at all. Um, Schoenewess came out on top in his one matchup with Ibanez last year, while Feliciano didn't see and Raul action. But that only makes them more even. Eeny, meeny, miny, mo. seawolf17 Dec 12 2008 07:56 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11ubw6yw]I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots.[/quote:11ubw6yw] I'd still rather have Dunn than Burrell, but I'd take Burrell in a second. I'm concerned about Murphy getting overexposed; give him 250 ABs in a part-time role and let him earn his stripes again. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM Speaking of Ibanez, the Phillies just signed him to a three year, $30 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=376426 8 Too bad. I think he would have been a great pickup for the Mets. Later Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:07 AM Head, slammed through wall. Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2008 08:28 AM If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo). Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:32 AM Marlon, I think, is not long for this town. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 08:33 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2d4wl6of]If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo).[/quote:2d4wl6of] Yes. Right now the fifth outfielder spot appears to be a competition between Evans and Reed. If a Burrell or Dunn were signed, the competition would be over and both of those outfielders would end up in Buffalo. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:37 AM Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 08:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3pbxjx7s]Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it.[/quote:3pbxjx7s] Well, Dmitri Young wasn't tendered and is a free agent. He certainly fills the "big fat" parts of that slot. Later Gwreck Dec 12 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":1wn8w6gz]Head, slammed through wall.[/quote:1wn8w6gz] Rollins Ibanez Utley Howard Werth Victorino Dobbs/Feliz Ruiz Ouch. Only consolation is that it's a left-heavy lineup. Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Ibanez basically replaces Burrell's production. Meaning the Phils will return a very similar lineup to last year's. Mark Texiera still available. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM I'm slamming my head through a wall because of the proliferation of posting without reading. smg58 Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Evans belongs at Buffalo playing first base. With Carp gone and Delgado in his walk year, he should be getting full-time AB's at his best position. The Mets need more lefthanded pitching. Burrell might not be better than Ibanez when you factor in ballparks. But both might hurt (might have hurt, in Ibanez' case) the Mets defensively more than they'd help offensively. The Mets absolutely need another righthanded bat in the outfield, but not at a cost that's disproportionate to the benefit. sharpie Dec 12 2008 10:24 AM Ibanez is a pretty good fielder, certainly not a guy you have to take out in the late innings. TransMonk Dec 12 2008 03:13 PM Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets. Valadius Dec 12 2008 03:47 PM Good. Burnett breaks down virtually every year. metirish Dec 12 2008 04:33 PM Of all the crazy things , I guess they won the bidding war again. Frayed Knot Dec 13 2008 06:50 AM So the Yanx had themselves a 1/4 Billion dollar week. Or, as they say in the Bronx, a good starting point. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2008 06:58 AM Here's hoping Burnett is even a bigger bust than Pavano. He's apparently a bigger idiot, and already a bigger injury risk. smg58 Dec 13 2008 08:27 AM The non-tenders are headed rather shockingly by ex-Met Ty Wigginton, after a very strong year with the bat. He's not that good defensively in the infield, but I have to think it had more to do with money. I also can't imagine that none of the teams in the market for a third baseman (the Twins, the Indians, the Giants) wouldn't have given him a look. I've always thought Ty could be the 10th man on a good team, and the Mets have room for him (as primarily an outfielder), but somebody might still pay him a starter's salary. Other noteworthy non-tenders include Chris Capuano (still recovering from TJS but might be worth a long-term look) and Takaishi Saito (his worth depends entirely on the status of his elbow). The only Met I saw was Argenis Reyes. If that's it, that would mean that Stokes (a good move) and Robinson Cancel (a bit surprising, unless they know they can move one of the other catchers) are staying on the 40. Nymr83 Dec 13 2008 12:59 PM i would LOVE to bring Wiggy back as a bench player, he has the pop that this bench needs and can play 2B/3B when needed (though not necessarily well) Valadius Dec 13 2008 01:20 PM I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat. OlerudOwned Dec 13 2008 02:47 PM I'm a lot happier with Ibanez in Philly than as a Met, especially at 3 years. Keith Law calls it "absurd[/url:20pumd9t]." Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:30 PM What about Burrell for an everyday LF and Jon Garland as an SP? Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2008 07:48 PM ="Valadius":2u4mpb0q]I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat.[/quote:2u4mpb0q] We'll be competing to buy him as a super-sub against teams looking for a starting thirdbaseman. You'd probably have to be thinking of him as your starting secondbaseman when you sign him. Aaron Miles, meanwhile got non-tendered. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2008 07:47 PM Besides Easley's role also included backing up Reyes at SS and Wiggy is an unrealistic option there. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:56 PM Miles plays everywhere, shortstop (and mopup pitcher) included. He's pretty similar from both sides of the plate. He can take lefties away from Castillo (against whom Luis is historically weaker), pressing him for the full-time job, backup at shortstop, and fill in elsewhere as needed. He's pretty analogous to Super Joe, with a little more average and a little less power, but has more starting experience and is less likely to be over-exposed by over-use. Ashie62 Dec 15 2008 04:19 AM Miles would come cheap and would be a rich mans superjoe I'd prefer Wiggy cause he can play anything..maybe even left or RF when Murphy or Church have problems Don't we need to focus on a full-time outfielder? Relying on Church & Murphy for 150 games seems a stretch. I'd love Burrell..surly as he is and as far as a SP goes..wait til Most of The A pitchers go and go after Sheets or Garland. metirish Dec 15 2008 06:55 AM Alex Cora was again mentioned in a report today. smg58 Dec 15 2008 07:24 AM Miles is another player who would be an upgrade over Castillo. He has similar hitting numbers to Castillo from a few years ago. He's also at least average with the glove, which Castillo can no longer say. He'd be worth bringing in for something like two years and $5M, although I might go higher than that if there are no other viable 2B options. He's not Orlando Hudson, but he could present significant value. I'd be willing to go 2 years and $6M for Wigginton's services, even if I could only guarantee him starts against lefties (in the outfield). Somebody like him or Juan Rivera would boost our bench, enable us to platoon Ryan Church, and provide cover if something goes wrong with Murphy, Church, or Delgado. I'm not sure that would be enough, but nobody jumped at the chance to trade for him. Edgy DC Dec 15 2008 07:35 AM Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder. MFS62 Dec 15 2008 07:45 AM ="Edgy DC":1omuczeq]Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder.[/quote:1omuczeq] I agree. B'sides, if the Mets sign Cora, we might be subjected to pictures of him with his brother. I'd get flashbacks of images of Joe Torre and his sister. Hide the eyes of the chill'uns. Miles gets my vote. Later MFS62 Dec 15 2008 08:54 AM Righthander Chan Ho Park said in a press conference in Seoul today that he has agreed to a 1-year contract with the Phillies. According to the Korea Times, Park, 35, will have a base salary of $2.5 million with incentives that could push the total package to $5 million. There had been reports that the Phillies were close to coming to terms with Park to improve their bullpen. However, the pitcher said he opted for the Phillies in part because they viewed him as a starter. �I was a little worried about the Citizens Bank Park, the home of the Phillies, which is hitter-friendly,� he said. "But as they considered me a starter, I signed with Philadelphia.� http://www.philly.com/philly/b...l_for_Park.html Later Frayed Knot Dec 15 2008 05:29 PM The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either. Centerfield Dec 15 2008 07:32 PM It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell." themetfairy Dec 15 2008 07:37 PM ="Centerfield":38yhgguz]It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell."[/quote:38yhgguz] I love you, Man. Your posts always make me laugh. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2008 08:19 PM ="Frayed Knot":uz2je510]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:uz2je510] Go, Theo, go. Frayed Knot Dec 16 2008 06:36 AM Phils re-up 95 y/o Jamie Moyer for 2 years. OK, he's really only 46. Fman99 Dec 16 2008 06:40 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2wijd3xl]="Frayed Knot":2wijd3xl]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:2wijd3xl] Go, Theo, go.[/quote:2wijd3xl] I would not be surprised if Houston was the team not being mentioned. He pitched well down there for them and they don't have a whole lot of starting pitching depth after Oswalt. Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 06:46 AM I'm OK with Pedro. I said it. Just, you know, sign a bunch of other guys also. Farmer Ted Dec 16 2008 08:51 AM I have no problem with Petey in the #5 slot to start the season. I'm more worried with the durability of Maine and whether the other teams catch up with Pelfry's stuff. metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 09:28 AM Any day the Phils resign Jamie Moyer and add Chan Ho Park is a good day for us! Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:31 AM The Phils trying to get two more years out of an ancient lefty strikes me as one more good reason for us to Burrell up. DocTee Dec 19 2008 09:14 AM Knucksie in Dixie: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/18/SPMQ14QQMI.DTL John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 09:31 AM Never made any sense to me that Lance Neikro wasn't a knuckleballer to begin with. IIRC, he had a big hit vs. the Mets (was it a game-winning HR or something?) when he first came up with the Giants and I naturally assumed he was on his way to major stardom. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Fireballer Daniel Cabrera goes to the Nats, 1 year, 2.6 million. Valadius Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:57 AM ="Valadius":2pz740g9]Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case.[/quote:2pz740g9] I think people were saying that about Ollie Perez before the Pirates sent him to us. Talented, strikeout pitcher, control issues, high ERA, etc. metsguyinmichigan Dec 21 2008 10:29 PM OK, now both the Angels and the Red Sox say they're not going after Texiera anymore. Has Boras finall pushed people over the edge, or is this all just negotiating ploys? Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:05 AM The Angels are claiming that their offer is "off the table" and that there'll be no further negotiating - which at least doesn't sound like a ploy. Boston, for its part, isn't claiming that, only that they think they're not going to be his choice due to other teams raising their offers beyond where they're willing to go. That leaves Teixeira in the position of either taking Boston's "low" offer or going the Baltimore/Washington route which kind of flies in the face of his 'I wanna be a contendah' pledge. Supposedly this was going to be wrapped up by Xmas but it wouldn't be the first time Boras has over-played his hand. Benjamin Grimm Dec 22 2008 07:07 AM There's still Baltimore and Washington. Boras isn't quite out of options yet. metsguyinmichigan Dec 22 2008 07:19 AM Speaking of Boras... Murray Chass MurrayChass.com Now that CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have signed, other pitchers on the free-agent list are expected to follow. Derek Lowe is probably next on the list in terms of interest, but the interest has been all talk and no offers. His agent's asking price is said to be the reason. Scott Boras has told clubs he wants Barry Zito money for the 35-year-old Lowe, which means $18 million a year. Clubs interested in Lowe have not rushed forward with such offers. The slow-moving market may be just what the Mets want. ...Barry Zito isn't worth Barry Zito money. But Derek Lowe? Is he nuts? Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 01:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 22 2008 02:20 PM I'm not sure I'd support the Mets spending $18 million a year for two Derek Lowes. Valadius Dec 22 2008 02:04 PM The MOST I'd spend on Derek Lowe is $8 million a year. $18 million is beyond rationality. Willets Point Dec 22 2008 03:01 PM Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone. MFS62 Dec 23 2008 07:36 AM ="Willets Point":2bf2t6s1]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:2bf2t6s1] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later smg58 Dec 23 2008 11:23 AM Guys who can consistently give you 200+ IP with 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA are worth plenty more than 8 million. I wouldn't go four years with Lowe, on account of his age, but I'd much rather have him than Ollie. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 03:04 PM ="MFS62":3rvs0psj]="Willets Point":3rvs0psj]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:3rvs0psj] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later[/quote:3rvs0psj] Just a joke about Lowe's rumored love of the drink. Valadius Dec 26 2008 09:01 PM Randy Johnson will pursue his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant. Nymr83 Dec 27 2008 01:15 AM he could it be cutting it close with the type of run support the giants give their starters. he needs 5 wins, it took Matt Cain all year to get 8 wins for the Giants with an ERA+ the same as Johnson's last year. Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 05:08 AM 'Randy Johnson is a Giant' is somewhat of a redundant headline. He's probably been called that since he was in the 4th grade. On the other hand, there must have been plenty in in the Castro district of SF who were excited to hear that someone called 'The Big Unit' was coming to their city. DocTee Dec 27 2008 09:16 AM FK with a late entry for post o' the year. The Giants have had a nice offseason (Renteria, Affeldt, Howry, Johnson) and if local rumors of them adding Adam Dunn are correct, they could be players in a weak West. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 27 2008 09:19 AM I agree. You can definitely quibble with the wisdom of a team's particular moves but I like to see franchises who've had bad years making a bunch of moves in the offseason, whether they are effective or not. Like the Giants... and the MFYs... Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 03:49 PM X-Rockie, X-Astro OFer Wily Tavarez signs a two-year deal with Cincy. He's good at stealing bases and also .... ummmm, I'll think of something. And Kevin Mensch heads for Japan. The Japanese just might get a look at his monsterously huge head and add a second rising sun to their flag. I think that thing has its own gravitational pull. Frayed Knot Dec 29 2008 07:20 AM Penny for your Sox ... Brad Penny to Boston for 1 yr/$5mil -- pending a physical which could yet throw a wrench into the works. As mentioned elsewhere, this could keep them from chasing the likes of Lowe, Wolf, Ollie, etc. thus reducing the demand pool by one more team. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 11:20 AM This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:29 PM The Cubs sign Aaron Miles for two years, then trade DeRosa to the Indians for three low level (not even top 20) prospects. At least it's not the Phillies, but that's one mild upgrade over Castillo and one significant upgrade who found takers at prices we could have afforded. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:30 PM Cubs 2B Mark DeRosa - long rumored as part of a Jake Peavy trade - dealt to Cleveland for a trio of minor league pitchers. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:36 PM Fuentes got two years at $17.5M, plus a club option. Rotoworld says "Fuentes almost certainly took less money to play close to home," but I'm not sure who was competing with the Angels. Frayed Knot Jan 02 2009 05:47 AM Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day! Nymr83 Jan 02 2009 06:41 AM ="Frayed Knot":1xejc7ja]Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day![/quote:1xejc7ja] Better news- nobody really cares about him anymore, including it seems the GMs of all 30 teams. DocTee Jan 02 2009 04:46 PM Tony Clark returns to D-Baggs: 1 year, 800K. metirish Jan 02 2009 05:34 PM Watching MLB Network Hot Stove and they are reporting that San Francisco have offered Manny Ramirez a four year deal. Dodgers and A Jones have agreed to defer most of his money owed likely leading to him playing elsewhere. Scott Proctor to the Marlins for one year. Ashie62 Jan 03 2009 12:33 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2ytj1poh]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels.[/quote:2ytj1poh] This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker metsmarathon Jan 03 2009 12:40 PM ="Ashie62":hblnrkgs]Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker[/quote:hblnrkgs] i don't believe that for a second. Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 12:58 PM ="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. Kong76 Jan 03 2009 01:36 PM Maybe the three closer thing is the way to go after the last two seasons. Ashie62 Jan 05 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC"]="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. True..my impatience caused me to jump over Krod & Putz KP DOOTY...I'm just frustrated that the odds of landing a power corner and a decent SP , Sheets, Garland, Lowe..are diminishing and pray the Mets are not newly cash short Burrell has a rep for being a prick but if the Rays can land him at 16 million for 2 years I then wonder why the Mets wouldn't top that and not have to expect 150 games from Murphy and even let Murphy learn 2B at AAA as an experiment. smg58 Jan 05 2009 03:15 PM The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one. MFS62 Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM ="smg58":1gnuo0ct]The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one.[/quote:1gnuo0ct] Can't wait to see him go head-to-head with Pinella. Later smg58 Jan 07 2009 05:51 AM And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 06:20 AM ="smg58":162h2ehz]And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price.[/quote:162h2ehz] Makes ya crazy. Geez. I mean, about Hairston. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 07:18 AM Maybe Hairston gets a chance to start in Cincy and couldn't be sure of that here. Never did even hear a rumor of them looking at him though. Also: - Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:42 AM Andy Pettitte turns down one year and $10 million from the Yanks in a declining market. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 10:10 AM Yomiuri Giant Koji Uehara signs with Bal'more for two years. Reports say that he's the team's first Japanese player, but they forget Nippo-Hawaiian Len Sakata. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 10:41 AM Len was American. smg58 Jan 07 2009 10:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":2gsb44fr]- Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino[/quote:2gsb44fr] I'll laugh if Pavano gives the Indians 27 starts (i.e., more starts than he gave the MFY's in four years). The Marquis deal appears to leave Jorge de la Rosa out of the rotation in Colorado. I'd see what the asking price for him is; he finished very strongly last year, and he's at least as good as Tim Redding. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 11:01 AM ="Centerfield":biqnwx39]Len was American.[/quote:biqnwx39] As I said. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 12:00 PM From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly MFS62 Jan 07 2009 12:14 PM ="Frayed Knot":3hnipcdi]From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly[/quote:3hnipcdi] Pure insurance with Utley out for the early part of the year due to surgery. Later metirish Jan 07 2009 08:04 PM From MetsBlog Mike Fitzpatrick of the Associated Press believes the Mets have made an offer to free-agent RHP Tim Redding, who was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 08:56 PM I'll give Redding this: with one inning and six runs, he may be the worst performing Yankee ever. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 09:06 PM Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox. Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2009 10:03 PM If Rocco Baldelli can be reasonably healthy, he could be a great pick up for the Red Sox. I hope he is healthy and has a great season for the Sox. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gx2svou]Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox.[/quote:3gx2svou] And quite possibly Smoltz too! Not official yet but several outlets are reporting it's 'bout a done deal. I guess they're promising him a starting job - don't think he would have jumped otherwise. Other reports have Trevor Hoffman going to the Brews ... although this is only one day after others had him headed to the Dodgers. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 07:46 AM Sort of a homecoming for Smoltz. Didn't he start his career with the Braves when they were still playing in Boston? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM No, the Tigers. Anywhoo, oughta soitenly remove Boston from the list of potential Lowe suitors (and cause me some concern too: Why don't any of Lowe's former employers want him back?) smg58 Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM The additions of Smoltz and Brad Penny probably take the Sox out of the discussions for Derek Lowe. Assuming Baldelli gets something like what Hairston got, I'd be a little annoyed that we didn't give him a look. We do need another righthanded bat. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:57 AM Yeah, I was half-hoping for Baldelli too. He's not a great player and has played fewer games in the last two seasons than Alou had in the two before we got him. But if this problem of his has finally been diagnosed correctly he could be a useful guy to have around. But Omar seems to be on this 'one problem at a time' schedule where nothing can even be talked about until the starter question is answered. metirish Jan 08 2009 08:01 AM Did bucket mis-read Ben's post? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 08:02 AM Yes. Yes I did. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 08:14 AM I almost did too because I sometimes confuse the Smoltz trade with the Bagwell one from Boston. The Smoltz from Detroit for Denny Alexander trade happened around the same era as Bagwell for Larry Anderson. Both were done for pennant push help and in each case the minor leaguers were home-town guys (Smoltz is from Mich, Bags from Conn) who turned into HoF possibilities. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 08:17 AM Doyle Alexander. Now Denny McLain or somebody is getting into the conflation. metirish Jan 08 2009 10:25 AM Looking at a potential nightmare with outfield defense the MFY's are apparently looking to trade Swisher and Nady. Yankees fielding offers for Nady, Swisher Posted by: Jon Heyman The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There's been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there's really no way to trade him. A logjam at the corners was created when the Yankees surprised a lot of folks and signed Mark Teixeira to an eight-year, $180 million contract. Swisher previously had been penciled in as the Yankees' first baseman but now becomes part of a crowded mix of accomplished corner outfielders. Swisher is a versatile player and can play some center field, as well. Some National League teams may be interested. However, Nady's trade value is higher after a better offensive season, so he may be just as likely to be dealt. Nady, acquired by the Yankees in a midseason trade with the Pirates, combined to hit .305 with 25 home runs and 97 RBIs for the year, while Swisher finished at .219 with 24 home runs and 69 RBIs for the White Sox before being dealt to the Yankees after the season Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 02:09 PM i'd sure take Nady back, to split time with Church, Murphy and Delgado. But no way the Yanx trade him cross town. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:30 PM You leave Tatis out of that mix. Nady gives you what Tatis gives you, only more and probably better and definitely younger. Tatis' only advantage is playing third. I'd love a Nady around because I think the best way to get something like last year's productivity out of Tatis is to make him earn every at-bat. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 02:43 PM Maybe Murphy will do that, but I'm not counting on it. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:46 PM What's going down, and I think a lot of us feel it, is that a lot of things went kind of right in Omar's offense that could have easily gone wronger, and he's kind of seeming to kind of be counting on a lot of those same thingies to go right again. Fans be pessemistic creatures, of course. Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 03:21 PM Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard. attgig Jan 08 2009 03:29 PM ="Vic Sage":37m9y64n]Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard.[/quote:37m9y64n] and you have a wild card at 1b, so it's not even half a lineup. nobody has faith in schnied to produce offensively, and while castro COULD provide some pop, he just gets hurt too often (he must be the worst backup catcher in the league). 2b, nobody has faith in castillo, except he's saying all the right things. and Church... will his head be screwed on straight? it'll be an interesting few more weeks before spring training. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 03:35 PM I agree with Vic, including about left field, but I'd be okay with giving Murphy/Tatis a chance to shine again. But in doing that, you have to protect yourself by beefing up some of the other positions. And as yet, the Mets haven't done anything towards that end. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 07:12 PM Ramon Castro, not the worst backup catcher in the league. DocTee Jan 09 2009 09:42 AM John Smoltz, Red Sock. metirish Jan 09 2009 12:35 PM Swisher the Yanks' preferred candidate over Nady BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com January 9, 2009 In their current roster logjam, the Yankees would strongly prefer to trade Xavier Nady and retain Nick Swisher, a person familiar with the club's thinking said yesterday. General manager Brian Cashman has received more requests for Swisher than for Nady. With spring training more than a month away and the season opener just about three months away, however, there is no imperative to execute a quick trade. The Mets enjoyed having Nady on their club for the first four months of the 2006 season, and they inquired about him last July, when the Yankees wound up getting him from Pittsburgh. For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 01:54 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 09 2009 02:02 PM Swisher switch-hits, and is better and more versatile defensively. He's also signed for the next few years which could be either good or bad depending on whether he regains his hitting from last season's off year. Nady is more likely to hit better (though walk less) and would only be for one year at a price to be determined by arbitration then would be a FA after that. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 09 2009 01:59 PM If we weren't already loaded with lefthanded hitting outfielders, I'd take Godzilla as a LH bench masher in the Franco/Staub mold. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 02:04 PM As long as the Cranks would pay 90% of the freight and expect nothing back in return, sure. (OK, maybe 70% with a throw-in going the other way would do) Ashie62 Jan 09 2009 05:10 PM I feel safe to say Tatis has had his middle aged career year..I wouldn't put too high a ceiling there. Daniel Murphy needs more seasoning and I still advocate a year at AAA to learn 2B Mr. Nady..wasn't he a Met who know has Yankee cooties? metirish Jan 11 2009 03:46 PM Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Fman99 Jan 11 2009 07:52 PM ="metirish"]Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Pedro really looked spent in 2008, after having a respectable September prior. I don't think he has much in the tank and I would not miss all the drama. Rockin' Doc Jan 11 2009 09:29 PM Marlins not interested in signing Pedro By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- Don't look for Pedro Martinez to wind up with the Marlins. A day after a report stated the Marlins were in the mix for the 37-year-old right-hander, a league source confirmed to MLB.com on Sunday that Florida has zero interest. Reports in the Miami Herald, Palm Beach Post and SunSentinel also ruled out the possibility of Martinez joining the club. On Saturday night, a report on ESPNdeportes.com stated the Marlins had discussions with agent Fernando Cuza regarding Martinez. The report added Florida may have begun preliminary contract talks, and that the two sides were expected to continue talking this week. As of late Sunday afternoon, the Marlins were not considered a possible fit. Martinez has a home in Miami, and he has expressed privately a desire to pitch for the Marlins. On Monday, Cuza is expected to have discussions with the Mets about a possible return to New York. The right-hander also is expected to test the free-agent market. Hampered by injuries last year, Martinez was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts. He threw 109 innings. Working with minimal financial resources, the Marlins are looking for affordable free agents. The team did explore adding veteran Carl Pavano, who signed with the Indians. The Marlins are prepared to head into Spring Training with a rotation that includes Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller and Anibal Sanchez. Nolasco, eliglbe for arbitration, still has not signed. Florida continues to explore depth at catcher. The team is looking for low-priced options there. A free agent that could be a fit is Ivan Rodriguez, but only if his price tag continues to drop this month. Frayed Knot Jan 12 2009 07:01 AM IOW, the earlier story was an agent plant. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 08:20 AM Yeah, use the threat of the Daddy Warbucks Marlins to trigger a false bidding war. That's the ticket. Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:09 AM I think that Pedro had far more interest in the Marlins than they had in him. I believe that Pedro is desperate to play another season, but I don't think teams throughout the league are very interested in signing him. Pedro was once a dominant, HOF caliber pitcher, but he seems to be the one person that doesn't see how far removed from his former greatness he now is. metirish Jan 12 2009 11:17 AM If Pedro Martinez retired tomorrow he would surely be in the HOF at first ballot , wouldn't he? Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:21 AM I was not inferring that Pedro Martinez was not worthy of enshrinement in Coopperstown. He has had a tremendous career and was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in MLB for several seasons. I would vote for him (if I had a vote) when his name comes up on the HOF ballot. I was simply stating that he is not nearly the dominant pitcher he once was. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 11:22 AM I think he's pretty aware of what happened last year. If he didn't still believe he could turn it around, he wouldn't be the great pitcher he is. What's more, I believe he could turn it around. In his prime, he had an unprecedented four killer pitches, so it's not like he was fastball-reliant. It's a matter of finding what he can do with what's left of his fastball and using it to complement the rest of his arsenal. That's a far ways from saying he will return to a productive level, but I'm certain he can. Glavine continued to pitch effectively with a powder puff fastball and a change. While his control was still very good, Pedro's has always been even better. And if I'm the Mets, I'm willing to spend some change to find out. Giving him Redding's money with an automatically vesting bonus year of $9 million if he gets 180 innings? Yeah, go for it. I'm certain he can do as well as Redding in 2009, and a damn fine bet to do better. The only thing Redding has over him is a better doctor's report. metirish Jan 12 2009 05:05 PM Michael Young wants out of Texas , can play 2nd base. I should add that Heyman just said on the Hot stove that he has %62 million left on his big contract. smg58 Jan 12 2009 05:22 PM Young's expensive, and the dropoff in his numbers over the past three years has been precipitous. Even if they took Castillo it would still be a $10M payroll hit, and he's just not that good anymore. Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 01:14 PM Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 01:52 PM Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year? Someone will be able to pick him up for minimum wage, and they may get a hell of a bargain at the Dodgers expense. metirish Jan 15 2009 01:56 PM Jones was on MLB Network the other night talking about how he would love to go back to the Braves. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 02:01 PM No doubt. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 02:28 PM i'd give andruw a shot, for minimum wage... Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 05:45 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

Both of whom were initially signed as amateur free agents. The last player whom the Mets drafted, signed, and made it to free agency was....Bobby Jones?

="TransMonk":2q9cmtlu]I don't recall any mood-swings, tardiness or rule bending from Pedro, but he was right on the third and fourth year of the contract prediction. One out of four is pretty crappy.[/quote:2q9cmtlu] Don't forget that Pedro had a fantastic first half (or at least first two months) in 2006. It's more like 1.65/4. themetfairy Dec 01 2008 03:39 PM Pedro was much better behaved during his Mets tenure than he was as a Red Sock. TransMonk Dec 01 2008 03:42 PM ="Gwreck":1dstpth6]="TransMonk":1dstpth6]I don't recall any mood-swings, tardiness or rule bending from Pedro, but he was right on the third and fourth year of the contract prediction. One out of four is pretty crappy.[/quote:1dstpth6] Don't forget that Pedro had a fantastic first half (or at least first two months) in 2006. It's more like 1.65/4.[/quote:1dstpth6] Oh, I agree. I was counting Klapisch's predictions for Pedro as a Met as crappy. Edgy DC Dec 01 2008 05:18 PM The Mets got more bang for their buck out of Pedro than ESPN will ever got out of Klapisch. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 01 2008 05:35 PM ="Edgy DC":41as8xke]The Mets got more bang for their buck out of Pedro than ESPN will ever got out of Klapisch.[/quote:41as8xke] That's pretty feint praise and probably accurate too. Pedro was not a help on the team this year, he wasn't much of one last and couldn't answer the bell when we needed him in 06. We could have gotten fractions of good seasons out of a lot of bums. Edgy DC Dec 01 2008 06:36 PM Yeah, I don't come to praise Pedro, but to flatten Klapish, who loads that argument with cheap un-necessary embellishments. You think the sidebar showing only Martinez's 2008 numbers was him or the editor's. metsguyinmichigan Dec 01 2008 07:20 PM I'd just like to see an article from Klap that didn't hate on the Mets. He just seems to have created a niche where he's the dark cloud looking for the negative and nothing else. We all get accused of that -- if I had a dime for every time someone says "You need to write more positive stories about the schools" -- but you don't see these level of negativity from Adam Rubin, who seems to do a fine job and still tells it like it is.

It seems like we go through this every year. Exclude Rafael Palmeiro, fine. McGwire? Nope. --- The only positive side is that if the writers aren't willing to put McGwire in the hall, it should mean that they won't be willing to put Clemens in, either.

Henderson McGwire Nobody else.

Some extra stuff that didn't make the article here: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2008/11/matlack-it-was-one-whale-of-a.html

="Edgy DC"] The M's take the theme-song thingie a little further than usual with him, playing a bit o' the song after each out. Ah-AH-a-ah-ah-a-AH-ah. Thun-Dah! Ah-AH-a-ah-ah-a-AH-ah. Thun-Dah! In fairness, the Mets were doing something similar, playing part of Enter Sandman after every Wagner K.

="themetfairy":2gwrrk6t]If Kase can log in on 12/5, then seniority does matter.[/quote:2gwrrk6t] Indeed. Can't believe the Mets managed to get that one right (!). SI Metman Nov 26 2008 11:26 PM yep, I've only been a Sunday plan holder for 2 1/2 years and got the 10th on my letter. Fortunately they are sparing us from going to the last Sunday game in '09. Kong76 Dec 05 2008 08:15 AM Scored two seats, Sun+ plan, front row of the highest level, in the outfield. mezzman is now promresman Vic Sage Dec 05 2008 09:53 AM my friend can't buy tix till the 12th. shoot. themetfairy Dec 05 2008 09:56 AM ="Vic Sage":f2arzhqv]my friend can't buy tix till the 12th. shoot.[/quote:f2arzhqv] It's nice to know that I have priority over somebody.

I don't think seniority has anything to do with it -- I think it's based on what you had in 2008. Order is: 1. Full Season Holders from 2008 who did not renew for a Full Season 2009 2. Weekday Plan Holders from 2008 3. Mini and Tuesday/Friday plan holders from 2008 4. Saturday and Sunday plan holders from 2008

="Benjamin Grimm":1yacqado]When I was a partial season ticket holder back in the 80's, I didn't have to "scrape" to be able to afford it.[/quote:1yacqado] Speaking as someone who *does* have to "scrape" (so to speak -- it's not like I'm foregoing food to go the game) I wind up agreeing with much of what Matthews says. The 6 paragraphs starting with "All last season..." are 100% accurate, dead-on-the-money. Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 09:51 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 26 2008 10:38 AM But those are bleeding with demagoguery as well. Is the world really just fat cats and working stiffs? Are the Mets really so perverse as to be doing anything like "playing footsie" or are they doing business the way virtually everybody else did it? My cousin was VP of personnel with a securities firm. They made her fire a ton of people and then they fired her. I know what's going on. There's a good chance I'm going to be posing in my pajamas soon. I don't blame the Mets. G-Fafif Nov 26 2008 10:19 AM The Mets sucked at dealing with their fans on tickets for the long term, but the equivalency -- they suck therefore they and Citi are essentially the same -- is what weighs Wally down. Ticket policy mishandling and naming rights hijinks are not the same issue and they're not necessarily symptomatic of a mindset, which is Matthews' implication. "The Mets waited two hours to call the game -- and they traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano: what a bunch of losers." That's what Matthews' column feels like. This is the wrong week to be promoting a stadium named Citi Field, that's for sure. The Mets will have to decide (if market forces don't do it for them) whether it will always be the wrong week for promoting a stadium with that name. The City Bank of New York was founded in 1812. Over the years, it became known as the First National City Bank of New York, First National City Bank and, eventually, Citibank, en route to becoming part of something called Citigroup. Might all remnants of that name be eradicated after 196 years? Could be. Might all the goodwill, whatever goodwill there was, associated with that name be gone in the wake of recent developments? Could be. Do we know the forever answer to either question? Not just yet. Citi looks very bad right now. This ballpark deal feels uncomfortable right now, to say the least. The Mets, by being in this naming venture with Citi, don't look good right now. Is "right now" what's always going to be? Hard to tell. I can't blame the Mets for trying to figure out how to maintain a deal that looked pretty lucrative and airtight (in the context of these things) two years ago. If the uproar continues as the season approaches, I imagine they won't want the name on their building. But even if, as a couple of business writers put it, $20 million a year for twenty years is a "drop in the bucket" to Citi (making this a worthwhile long-term investment in their view, assuming they stick around as Citi), it's pretty significant to a baseball team. Remember what Darren Rovell wrote on CNBC's site: they'd be lucky to get $12 million a year now from anybody. The Mets want the money. They'll always want the money. What entity in their spot wouldn't be looking for a way to get the money they signed for? If/when it becomes untenable (if the PR aspects of this do not blow over), the Mets will suddenly realize they don't want to play in Citi Field. Even if they do suck at ticket plans. Even if they wait too long to call rainouts. Even if they traded Kazmir for Zambrano. And this is coming from someone who has loathed almost everything about Citi Field, name included, from the day it was announced. Edgy DC Nov 26 2008 10:41 AM What he said. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 10:47 AM While they're at it, can Citi cancel my credit card debt? That'd make my life a lot easier. G-Fafif Nov 26 2008 10:50 AM ="seawolf17":1jq5wyqz]While they're at it, can Citi cancel my credit card debt? That'd make my life a lot easier.[/quote:1jq5wyqz] You'd figure in all this there'd be some Mets Fan Interest Forgiveness Clause, wouldn't you? Vince Coleman Firecracker Nov 26 2008 10:57 AM ="seawolf17":2jtn576x]While they're at it, can Citi cancel my credit card debt? That'd make my life a lot easier.[/quote:2jtn576x] I'll change my name to "Citi" if they'll negate my student loans. HahnSolo Nov 26 2008 11:32 AM Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later. Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2008 11:33 AM That settles it then. soupcan Nov 26 2008 11:35 AM I'm going to go out on a limb and say that by this time next year nobody's going to care. metirish Nov 26 2008 11:52 AM Found this in the comments section responding to Wally. ] Ron Darling Hey Moron, the mets likely have a contract with Citi for the naming rights. If Citi doesn't want to back out, there's probably little the mets can do. Aside from that, the company looks at citifield as an extension of their advertising, which is required to attract attention and bring in new business. So, as they try to avoid going under, it's really not stupid to keep the naming rights if they estimate that the Return On Investment will be higher with this advertising than with other ads they may cut. Nice job rewriting your colleague's article just to get a few jabs in at the mets. you're a worthless piece of trash, you no talent hack. seawolf17 Nov 26 2008 12:33 PM ="metirish"]Found this in the comments section responding to Wally. ] Ron Darling Hey Moron, the mets likely have a contract with Citi for the naming rights. If Citi doesn't want to back out, there's probably little the mets can do. Aside from that, the company looks at citifield as an extension of their advertising, which is required to attract attention and bring in new business. So, as they try to avoid going under, it's really not stupid to keep the naming rights if they estimate that the Return On Investment will be higher with this advertising than with other ads they may cut. Nice job rewriting your colleague's article just to get a few jabs in at the mets. you're a worthless piece of trash, you no talent hack. That's why I like Ronnie... he pulls no punches. MadDog Nov 26 2008 12:34 PM ="HahnSolo":7y9z3mzz]Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later.[/quote:7y9z3mzz] AH, COME ON, MIKE! YOU CAN'T JUST BE GIVING BACK THAT MONEY! THAT'S JEFF WILPON'S MONEY, MIKE! THAT WAS NEGOTIATED! FAIR AND SQUARE! Willets Point Nov 26 2008 01:14 PM ="soupcan":1wa54pzc]I'm going to go out on a limb and say that by this time next year nobody's going to care.[/quote:1wa54pzc] I already don't care. metsmarathon Nov 26 2008 01:34 PM honestly, with all the buckets of taxpayer money, both given to or not collected from the mets (and nearly every other major pro sports team), why is this spectre of $20 million/year so terribly abhorrent? i mean, its not like the bailout is going, specifically, to fund these dollars which were fairly agreed to prior to federal involvement. the mets are right to expect their money. i mean, i'd really like to see them not sell the naming rights to their building, personally, but given their choice to use it as a revenue stream, and citigroup's choice to use it as an advertisement, i see no problems. will the federal government look into all of citi's contractual obligations and force them to break those fairly negotiated contracts that have arguable ROI? ... if i were the mets, i think i would have to consider offering a buyout, though. enough to cover the expected $20 million this year, plus the cost of replacing the voluminous signage, plus a few million on top, for the trouble. but the wally mathews and mike francessas out there will only complain, unless hte mets give up the name for no cost whatsoever to citi, and then those same voices will criticize the mets for getting nothing in return. holychicken Nov 26 2008 01:51 PM ="MadDog":2lvkg2so]AH, COME ON, MIKE! YOU CAN'T JUST BE GIVING BACK THAT MONEY! THAT'S JEFF WILPON'S MONEY, MIKE! THAT WAS NEGOTIATED! FAIR AND SQUARE![/quote:2lvkg2so] You always crack me up. I love you maddog! But seriously, the show was much less terrible with Maddog. I used to listen to it on my commute home and now I just can't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Nov 26 2008 02:02 PM The last time I tuned into Francessa (I'd put the (sp?) here, but I don't really care to learn to spell his name correctly) was a few months back, after the story came out that the Yankees had been getting favorable assesments on their property so they could pay less taxes. Francesca dismissed a caller who brought this up, saying that no one cares about the relationship between the government, the taxpayers and the team. Now, (big surprise) he's up in arms because of the Mets' relationship to a third party's relationship to the government and taxpayers. Can't he catch that disease the guy from the Spin Doctors was rumored to have? The one where you can't speak for several years? Frayed Knot Nov 26 2008 06:21 PM ="HahnSolo":1fcl1b69]Mike Francesa has spoken. The Mets "must" return Citibank's money. He will elaborate later.[/quote:1fcl1b69] Only caught a minute or two of his reasoning, but the logic was along the lines of CitiGroup is now a forever tainted brand and therfore the Mets need to disassociate themselves from it. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but this isn't exactly an Enron situation where the bulprit was blatantly criminal activities by the heads of the company leading to complete destruction of the business. This was bad mgmt which may or may not be fixable but, otherwise, I don't get the parallel here. Chrysler, after all, was on the receiving end of gov't assistance several decades ago (late '70s?) and yet managed to rebound and go on to sponsor sports tourneys and other stuff without leaving a scarlet letter on everything they were attached to. metirish Nov 26 2008 06:24 PM Francesa just hung up on you. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2008 06:29 PM ="metirish":1lbnh8b8]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:1lbnh8b8] Irish, come on, The Great Francesa would never hang up on a caller! NO! He might give a big wave of his hand to let his board op know to cut the call off, but hang up? NEVAH! In fact, this thread deserves a giant handwave! Ashie62 Nov 26 2008 06:51 PM ="metirish":27odyq9t]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:27odyq9t] I wish I had that luck Irish...nice Ireland addition to the Avatar! soupcan Nov 26 2008 09:52 PM ="metirish":1hzpv5si]Francesa just hung up on you.[/quote:1hzpv5si] Made me laugh irish. metirish Nov 30 2008 07:00 PM Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" . SteveJRogers Nov 30 2008 07:19 PM ="metirish":1xy3j2m8]Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" .[/quote:1xy3j2m8] Better that the lights go out now then during the season! Ashie62 Dec 01 2008 10:09 PM They say root for the hat..but I think at this point I would be embarrased to sit in a structure named after Citigroup.. Then again my sorry ass can't afford to go anyway.. Omar..now go sign somebody!! metirish Dec 02 2008 01:42 PM Jeff speaks. ] THE ASSOCIATED PRESS 3:25 PM EST, December 2, 2008 The New York Mets say the name Citi Field will remain on their new ballpark and believe the struggling bank will survive its current economic crisis following a government bailout. Citigroup is paying the Mets $400 million over 20 years for naming rights to the stadium, scheduled to open next year. Two New York City councilmen said last week that the ballpark's name should be changed to Citi/Taxpayer Field. "We think we can bring the right people to help them market their product so that they can be a going concern," Mets chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon said Tuesday. "It's not really Citi's fault that they're in this problem. They're a lot of other banks in the same situation." metsguyinmichigan Dec 02 2008 03:06 PM I can see the point about the taxpayers. It seems stange to me when utilities who have monopolies spend money on naming rights. Why does DTE Energry here in Michigan and Keyspan need to advertise like that when eveyone gets their bill each month? We know who they are. (Naturally the Citi isn't a utility and didn't have the public money until this fall) Kong76 Dec 02 2008 03:31 PM AP: Mets chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon said Tuesday. "It's not really Citi's fault that they're in this problem. <=== Oh jeez. Valadius Dec 02 2008 04:29 PM Well Jeff Wilpon is a moron. That's not news. Nymr83 Dec 02 2008 05:04 PM Repeat after me idiot Wilpon: "it's not our fault that they are in this mess, we signed a contract and we'd be expected to perform our end of it even if it became a bad deal for us." Kong76 Dec 02 2008 05:04 PM I wasn't reporting anything, I quoted from a previous post, and oh jeezin' instead of commenting that the guy is a walking mic magnet for oh jeezable quotes and should avoid speaking at all. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 05:20 PM You know --- in the names of Bobby Bonilla, Vince Coleman, Mel Rojas, Jeromy Burnitz, and Mo Vaughn --- it's kind of nice to see the Mets finally the one who collect on a long-term, big-dollar contract signed before the market shifted. SteveJRogers Dec 02 2008 06:51 PM ="metirish"]Driving back from JFK tonight I saw the sign on that side of the stadium reading as " I FI LD" . Not sure if this is from today, but here is a neat image of what Irish saw: metirish Dec 02 2008 07:01 PM That's exactly it , good find Steve. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 07:10 PM Irish drives a dirigible. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2008 09:39 AM Photo gallery from the snooze: [url:1ahhortv]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/galleries/citi_field__inside__out/citi_field__inside__out.html[/url:1ahhortv] I gotta say, as long as I can get to a few games, I'm excited over a new park. metirish Dec 03 2008 09:52 AM Me too , can't wait really , started saving recently for a game I hope to go to in the summer. More pictures here http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-citifield-pg,0,3740511.photogallery Gwreck Dec 03 2008 10:41 AM ]I gotta say, as long as I can get to a few games, I'm excited over a new park. As a function of schedule or a function of price? We had some long and hard discussions about what to do with this new stadium. Once you get past the fact that it's a minimum of $100/seat to be anywhere on the infield (aside from the upper level)... Still, in the end, I found myself a lot more excited than I thought I would to be buying tickets today. My impression is that after being accustomed to Shea for so long it will take a very long time for the novelty of the new park to wear off. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2008 10:47 AM I'd only go to a small handful of games in either park. I was worried that demand for tixx would be too great to assure even that but I think I got a hookup for the small slate of games I will attend. Willets Point Dec 03 2008 10:52 AM When are they going to sell single-game tickets? Gwreck Dec 03 2008 11:19 AM Probably not until late February/early March. They'll first do the "lottery" for the opening night and games vs. MFYs, then the public sale a week or two later. I think ticket demand is not going to be too bad (economy; 2nd straight year of barely missing playoffs, etc). Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2008 05:44 AM A clever suggestion from the New York Times: ] Citi Field by Any Other Name, Part II By Andrew Das With a column and a blog post, George Vecsey started a lively debate this week by proposing new names for the Mets� new ballpark, which will for now keep the name of its faltering financial sugar daddy, Citigroup. Some of George�s suggestions � Jackie Robinson Stadium, Gil Hodges Stadium � included homages to the city�s baseball past. Readers tossed out other ideas: Bailout Ballpark, Strawberry Field. WNYC�s Brian Lehrer weighed in when he took reader questions on our City Room blog this week. The name Citi Field is fast becoming a joke. Shall we rename it Taxpayer Field? Federal Reserve Park? Cover the infield with the Henry Paulson TARP? But Lehrer wasn�t done. He continued the discussion when he went on the air at WNYC (Chez Stadium has a nice expense-account flair to it), and that back and forth produced a name that I think appeals to everything from baseball history to the city�s history to fans� shared Citi anger. For now at least, the leader in the clubhouse has to be �. Debits Field. Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2009 05:23 PM ="Cleveland Plain Dealer":3i00ad19]Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich teamed up with Texas GOP Rep. Ted Poe on Thursday to demand that the Treasury Department force Citigroup to give up its $400 million stadium naming deal with the New York Mets baseball team. The congressmen wrote a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner that observed the bank's finanical situation has worsened dramatically since it signed the Mets deal in 2006. Citigroup recently accepted billions of dollars in taxpayer bailout money and announced it's eliminating 50,000 jobs. "The Treasury Department, which forced Citigroup corporate executives to give up their private jet, should also demand that Citigroup cancel its $400 million advertisement at the Mets field and instead being to repay their debt to the taxpayers," Kucinich said in a press statement.[/quote:3i00ad19] John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 29 2009 05:47 PM thwack. metsmarathon Jan 29 2009 05:49 PM where else will they be forced to retract advertising? Nymr83 Jan 29 2009 06:41 PM ="metsmarathon":48x4xa6v]where else will they be forced to retract advertising?[/quote:48x4xa6v] nowhere, they'd rather just use a pro sports team as a scapegoat and ignore that it is advertising like any other. Kong76 Jan 29 2009 07:02 PM Not in response to anything said here, and I'm not big on the whole tortured Mets fan ideology that some fans carry around and like to wound lick about, but jeez on some level I can't help but grin to myself and think, "this could only happen to the freakin' Mets." We get a brand spankin' new park and watch Shea get torn down and the whole country is going to the crapper and the new stadium was going to be named (I'm certain it won't be Citi Field come opening day) by one of the biggest iconic reasons that things are so bad and now it will be fodder for every news outlet until it's named something else and it will be a trivia ques- tion twenty-five years from now and this has become a run-on so I'll stop. batmagadanleadoff Jan 29 2009 07:28 PM ="Kong76":1gdgi6hg] and the new stadium was going to be named (I'm certain it won't be Citi Field come opening day)....[/quote:1gdgi6hg] I'll probably refer to the new park as Shea Stadium. For years, I bet. To me, the 49ers play in Candlestick. And so do the baseball Giants. MFS62 Jan 29 2009 07:49 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":zgx7tsoo] To me, the 49ers play in Candlestick. And so do the baseball Giants.[/quote:zgx7tsoo] Gee, I remember the football team playing in Kezar Stadium (with sea gulls flying in front of the tv cameras) and the baseball team playing in Seals Stadium. Later Frayed Knot Jan 29 2009 08:18 PM ] ... jeez on some level I can't help but grin to myself and think, "this could only happen to the freakin' Mets." Astros fans forced to deal with 'Enron Field' might disagree there. Kong76 Jan 30 2009 04:47 AM Uey, they can't even get that right. Edgy DC Jan 30 2009 07:25 AM ]Cleveland Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich teamed up with Texas GOP Rep. Ted Poe This isn't exaclty Chris Van Hollen and John Boehner. It wouldn't be the first time I've been caught with my head in the sand, but I'm not sure this is anything more than a symbolic statment. I mean, that's what Kucinich's presidential run was. Under any circumstances, I'm highly distrustful of scapegoating maneuvers. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 30 2009 07:26 AM President Kucinich would move the Mets to Havana, prolly. Ashie62 Feb 03 2009 07:06 AM This mornings Wall Street Journal has an article the Citi is reconsidering the 400 million dollar naming rights deal. I don't have the online link but its in the Journal. Citi is being "directed" by the Treasury not to spend taxpayer dollars on this. It may not be fair but the Mets have no say on the contract and at best will receive some money as a walk away fee. Good thing the Patch is bare...Probably best to take the TARP stink off our new stadium...Lotta remodeling to do if Citi is knocked out. Royal Crown Cola field anyone? Ashie62 Feb 03 2009 07:07 AM Ooh! George Thomas Seaver! Do I get a bottle o Wine for this? I don't mean Wild Irish Rose Peach. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:10 AM Get a New Patch While You're At It The wheels are reportedly in motion to deCitify Citi Field. From WSJ: ]Citi Explores Breaking Mets Deal Bank That Got Bailout Cash Revisits $400 Million Pact to Put Name on Stadium By DAVID ENRICH, MATTHEW FUTTERMAN and DAMIAN PALETTA Citigroup Inc., eager to quell the controversy over how lenders are using government bailout money, is exploring the possibility of backing out of a nearly $400 million marketing deal with the New York Mets, say people familiar with the matter. Officials at Citigroup have made no final decision about whether to try to void the 20-year agreement, which includes naming the Mets' new baseball stadium after the bank, say these people. In a statement Monday, Citigroup said that "no TARP capital will be used" for the stadium -- referring to government funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But as it revisits the pact, Citigroup is essentially acknowledging that the volatile political climate could make it untenable for the bank to proceed with the deal. Citigroup, which has had total net losses of $28.5 billion since 2007, received $45 billion in bailout aid from the federal TARP program last fall. The government also agreed to shoulder most losses on a $301 billion pool of Citigroup's loans and other assets. Next week, Citigroup Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other bank CEOs are scheduled to appear before a House committee, where they are likely to be pressed for answers about their use of taxpayer-funded capital through TARP. The Mets deal was attacked last week as an example of misplaced spending by financial institutions that needed bailout funds. Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D., Ohio) and Ted Poe (R., Texas) wrote to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday, asking him to push Citigroup to dissolve the Mets deal. "Citigroup is now dependent on the support of the federal government for its survival as an institution," the letter said. "As such, we do not believe Citigroup ought to spend $400 million to name a stadium at the same time that they accept over $350 billion in taxpayer support and guarantees." A re-examination of the Mets deal comes just days after President Barack Obama called it "shameful" that Wall Street firms doled out billions of dollars in bonuses even as Washington was spending taxpayer dollars to help bail them out. The Treasury Department hasn't been pushing the bank to break the contract, according to people with knowledge of the government's stance. Anger also is rising over signs that the massive capital infusion to U.S. banks hasn't resulted in a surge in lending. In a survey of banks released Monday, the Federal Reserve said about two-thirds of banks' loan officers reported that they tightened terms for business loans over the past three months. Under terms of the Mets deal, Citigroup has the right to plaster its name and logo around the arena, dubbed Citi Field, which is largely built and set to open in April in the New York City borough of Queens. Citigroup's contract with the Mets calls for the bank to pay the team roughly $20 million a year over two decades. The arrangement helped cover the costs of building Citi Field because it served as an asset the Mets could tout as they tried to lure private capital. While the Mets didn't receive direct taxpayer financing for the ballpark, the team did benefit from free land, infrastructure investments and tax-free bonds from the city government. Citigroup underwrote more than $600 million in bonds for the stadium. The bank's name and logo already adorn the stadium's walls. Citi Field is adjacent to Shea Stadium, the former home of the Mets, now being torn down. If Citigroup backs out of its agreement with the Mets, it likely wouldn't happen immediately and could involve the bank paying a breakup penalty to the Mets, people familiar with the situation said. "The Mets are fully committed to our contract with Citi," said Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz. A Citigroup spokesman said the bank "signed a legally binding agreement with the New York Mets in 2006." Within Citigroup, some officials believe the company should try to void the Mets pact in order to distance itself from unnecessary controversy. But other executives argue that trying to wiggle out of the contract will set a bad precedent. "If we cave for political reasons, it will have enormous implications for our ability to contract with third parties," said an executive who has been briefed on the discussions. When Citigroup and the Mets unveiled their pact in 2006, it was the richest naming-rights deal in baseball. Top executives including then-Chief Executive Charles Prince and Lewis Kaden, the Citigroup vice chairman who negotiated the deal, attended a groundbreaking ceremony with Mets players and officials. Citigroup has a number of other sports-marketing arrangements. Last month, it was the main sponsor of college football's Rose Bowl game. The company is sponsoring the 2010 national championship game. Citibank Park, which opened in 2000 in Central Islip, N.Y., is home to the Long Island Ducks minor-league baseball team. While some Citigroup executives are urging the company to scale back its advertising expenses to avoid public controversy, the company recently has been buying full-page ads in some major newspapers, touting its stability and lending. Last week, Citigroup stirred more controversy when the New York Post reported that the bank was planning to buy an expensive new luxury jet. The implication was that Citigroup was using a portion of its TARP funds to pay for the new jet. In response, Citigroup initially defended its plans, arguing that it placed the jet order in 2005 and that canceling the purchase would result in millions of dollars of penalties. The new jet also was supposed to replace two aging planes that Citigroup had put up for sale. Citigroup ultimately nixed the order under pressure from Treasury officials. By then, though, the bank had been publicly lashed by President Obama. "We shouldn't have to do that," he said, referring to the administration's suggestion that Citigroup not go through with the corporate-jet order, "because they should know better." If Citigroup parts ways with the Mets, other financial institutions may find themselves under pressure to reconsider sports-marketing deals. Bank of America Corp., which got $45 billion in government capital, signed a deal in 2004 for naming rights for the Carolina Panthers football stadium in Charlotte, N.C. Bank of America's 20-year deal calls for the bank to pay the Panthers $7.5 million a year, making it one of the National Football League's most expensive naming-rights deals. The Houston Texans receive $10 million a year from Reliant Energy Inc. Bank of America has been in talks with the New York Yankees about a major sponsorship deal for the new Yankee Stadium, though the company's name wouldn't be on the building. That deal appeared near complete in the fall, but neither side has discussed the matter since then. Larry DiRita, a Bank of America spokesman, declined to comment on the company's specific marketing arrangements. "These are normal banking relationships," he said, noting that they are profitable for the bank. Frayed Knot Feb 03 2009 07:11 AM Citigroup Inc. is considering the possibility of backing out of its $400 million naming-rights deal for the New York Mets' new stadium, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal. The report cited "people familiar with the matter." Ahh yes, the always popular "people familiar" source. What it sounds like is that Citi is feeling outside pressure and is at least looking into what it might take to break thinking that maybe this would stem the tide of criticism. Never mind that they still sponsor a host of other sports stuff, this deal seems to be the center of the bullseye right now. The team has every intention of continuing with the deal (of course, because they'd never get another nearly as large) and I'm thinking they'd probably put up a legal fight to keep it. oe: cross-post G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:18 AM If my thread on the WSJ story gets folded in or deleted, the essentials: ]Citigroup Inc., eager to quell the controversy over how lenders are using government bailout money, is exploring the possibility of backing out of a nearly $400 million marketing deal with the New York Mets, say people familiar with the matter. Officials at Citigroup have made no final decision about whether to try to void the 20-year agreement, which includes naming the Mets' new baseball stadium after the bank, say these people. In a statement Monday, Citigroup said that "no TARP capital will be used" for the stadium -- referring to government funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But as it revisits the pact, Citigroup is essentially acknowledging that the volatile political climate could make it untenable for the bank to proceed with the deal. Citigroup, which has had total net losses of $28.5 billion since 2007, received $45 billion in bailout aid from the federal TARP program last fall. The government also agreed to shoulder most losses on a $301 billion pool of Citigroup's loans and other assets. Next week, Citigroup Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other bank CEOs are scheduled to appear before a House committee, where they are likely to be pressed for answers about their use of taxpayer-funded capital through TARP. ]Citigroup's contract with the Mets calls for the bank to pay the team roughly $20 million a year over two decades. The arrangement helped cover the costs of building Citi Field because it served as an asset the Mets could tout as they tried to lure private capital. While the Mets didn't receive direct taxpayer financing for the ballpark, the team did benefit from free land, infrastructure investments and tax-free bonds from the city government. Citigroup underwrote more than $600 million in bonds for the stadium. The bank's name and logo already adorn the stadium's walls. Citi Field is adjacent to Shea Stadium, the former home of the Mets, now being torn down. If Citigroup backs out of its agreement with the Mets, it likely wouldn't happen immediately and could involve the bank paying a breakup penalty to the Mets, people familiar with the situation said. metirish Feb 03 2009 07:24 AM I bet by the end of the day Wally will have a "Jackie Robinson Field" article up. Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 07:31 AM This just seems so counterproductive for everybody. It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:36 AM ="Edgy DC":3tltbewg]I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:3tltbewg] The Mets could use some more crunch in their lineup. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:37 AM ="Edgy DC":i7xp23vg]I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:i7xp23vg] The Mets could use some more crunch in their lineup. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:40 AM ="metirish"]I bet by the end of the day Wally will have a "Jackie Robinson Field" article up. Wally, if they actually did that: ]Branch Rickey famously told Jackie Robinson not to fight back when harassed. The Mets similarly don't fight back when their opponents tar them not with epithets but runs. The Mets have unwittingly chosen the wrong role model. But when do the Mets ever use their wits? soupcan Feb 03 2009 07:41 AM ="Edgy DC":6bqs5c70]It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:6bqs5c70] Most definitely. Its not like Enron Field is now Astro Stadium. I would like it if there does happen to be another sponsor that its a one-name company so I can pretend it's sort of un-sponsored. You know like Miller Park or Busch Stadium. If not, then I'd like Met Life please. Centerfield Feb 03 2009 07:43 AM Considering they have a signed contract, I don't see why the Mets would let Citi out of the deal until they had a more lucrative (or equally lucrative) deal in place. metirish Feb 03 2009 07:43 AM Jeff IIRC is quite fond of WISE potato chips. WISE FIELD metsmarathon Feb 03 2009 08:35 AM if citi backs out of that contract, i would think that the mets should sue them to recoup not only some of the short term income, but also the cost to replace all of the signage and merchandise. no fucking way citi should get off the hook just because the politicians whined MFS62 Feb 03 2009 08:46 AM Per Metsblog Update, 8:56 am: Michael Espo, a long-time and trusted reader of MetsBlog.com, just sent in the following e-mail: �Moments ago on CNBC, Doug Kass, a noted investor and short seller, who is a member of the country club where Bernie Madoff solicited many of his investors, said, �scuttlebutt around town says that Fred Wilpon and Mets ownership may be forced to sell a minority interest in the team due to their exposure to the Madoff fraud.�� Consider the source. EDIT: Hmmmm Now that is gone from that website. I wonder what happened. Later batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 08:46 AM ="Edgy DC":dwhmitdm]This just seems so counterproductive for everybody. It's nice to think that the Mets may end up with an un-sponsored field, but I think it more likely that they lose their $20 million a year from Citi and get $4 million a year from Frito-Lay.[/quote:dwhmitdm] It's apropos. Wilpon's a cheeseball. Get ready for Cheesy Stadium. batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 08:52 AM ="metsmarathon":2jggnqoz]if citi backs out of that contract, i would think that the mets should sue them to recoup not only some of the short term income, but also the cost to replace all of the signage and merchandise. no fucking way citi should get off the hook just because the politicians whined[/quote:2jggnqoz] If Citi doesn't have a contractual out, why wouldn't the Mets Sioux City to recoup every single penny of the deal? G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 08:56 AM Darren Rovell's story from CNBC: ]Despite all the noise, including a front page story in the Wall Street Journal today, the Mets just sent us this statement. "In conversations this morning, Citi reinforced that they will honor our legally binding agreement." MFS62 Feb 03 2009 08:59 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 03 2009 09:01 AM I'm thinking of taking up a collection to buy the naming rights. I'll name it "Cranepool Forum Field". If you're interested in contributing ($1 million minimum. No pikers, pease.) PM me, and I'll give you the number of my off shore account to which you can wire the money. Later metirish Feb 03 2009 08:59 AM ] "In conversations this morning, Citi reinforced that they will honor our legally binding agreement." Sounds like the Mets reinforced the legally binding thing. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 09:04 AM The Mets, I would guess, don't give a damn what it's called (within reason). They do give a damn they get paid (which is reasonable). batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 09:54 AM ="G-Fafif":1gap197h]The Mets, I would guess, don't give a damn what it's called (within reason). They do give a damn they get paid (which is reasonable).[/quote:1gap197h] That's my Wilpon! metirish Feb 04 2009 10:26 AM Daniel Gross argues that the name should stay. http://www.slate.com/id/2210442/ ] Three Strikes and You're Bailed Out Why Citi shouldn't cancel its $400 million purchase of naming rights for the Mets new stadium. By Daniel Gross Posted Tuesday, Feb. 3, 2009, at 6:00 PM ET Almost every taxpayer who isn't a New York Mets fan is outraged by Citi's $400 million, 20-year deal for naming rights to the new Mets stadium, known as Citi Field. It's true that shelling out that kind of money at a time when taxpayers are bankrolling the company and backstopping hundreds of billions of dollars worth of its assets may seem tone-deaf and stupid, even for a bank. And, historically, naming rights have been a classic vanity move. Corporations tend to make grandiose civic/corporate statements right when they are about to implode. If you had shorted Citi's stock when it announced the sponsorship deal in November 2006, you would have made a lot of money. But there's a reasonable case to be made for preserving the deal, especially if Citi could get the Mets to extend the deal to 30 or 40 years. In order for Citi to weather the storm, recover, and pay back taxpayers (and insulate them from further losses), the company must invest for both the short- and long-term. For companies in highly competitive consumer markets, marketing and advertising are essential, entirely justifiable expenses. Companies�even companies getting bailed out by the feds�need to attract customers and to build their brand image. It's difficult to measure the value of any specific campaign or ad. But there's reason to think that for this company, at this stadium, in this location, a naming-rights deal might not be such a bad long term move. The cost is high�$400 million over 20 years. But the present-day cost isn't quite as high as you think, especially if, as Darren Rovell of CNBC suggests, it is paid out in annual installments. In 2029, $20 million will be worth a lot less than $20 million is today. And any type of advertising that reaches a lot of people is expensive. In this economy, NBC was able to charge $3 million for a 30-second spot during the Super Bowl. Though the audience size for Mets games won't approach that of the Super Bowl, the location of the stadium guarantees that the Citi logo will be visible to hundreds of millions of people each year. Citi Field is a giant billboard that will be visible not just to the 4 million-plus people who attend Mets games each year but to the tens of millions of people who drive past it on the Grand Central Parkway, the Van Wyck Expressway, and other roadways and the 25 million or so passengers who fly into and out of LaGuardia Airport each year. And stadium naming deals generate a huge amount of free advertising. On the broadcasts of the team's 81 home games (and, sponsors hope, post-season games), announcers will repeatedly refer to the company's name in a nonadvertising context: "Welcome back to Citi Field." Likewise, newspaper, Internet, and television coverage will produce hundreds of millions of impressions of the company's name per year. Naming-rights deals are most justifiable when the product or company doing the naming has an intuitive connection to the people who visit the stadium. The Montreal Canadiens used to play in the Molson Center, which made sense since hockey fans drink a lot of beer. Ditto for the Colorado Rockies, who play in Coors Field. (When Internet company PSInet planted its name on the Baltimore Ravens' stadium, it didn't make quite as much sense.) Citi would seem to be something of a natural for the New York Mets. It's a New York-based bank. The Mets are based in New York City. Baseball stadiums tend to attract a prosperous, heavily male clientele, including professionals, small-business owners, and corporate executives. Many companies use Mets games to entertain and schmooze prospective clients. In short, a lot of the sorts of people who are likely to utilize Citi's services will be attending games at Citi Field. Of course, people who read about games at Citi Field on ESPN.com won't be learning much about Citi's mortgage rates. But naming rights, especially if they endure, can perform another vital function for brands. It can help make them part of the vernacular. The greatest desire of any marketer is for her product's name to work its way into conversations. When I was growing up, it was common to say, "I want a Coke" when you were referring to any kind of soda. People ask for a Kleenex when they mean a tissue, say they're going to Xerox a document even if they're using a Ricoh copier, and speak of Googling when they refer to an Internet search. Stadium naming rights can help products and brands gain that sort of status. Since 1926, baseball fans on the north side of Chicago have spoken about going to games at Wrigley Field. Does that make fans more likely to buy Wrigley's gum products? It can't hurt. "Meet me at Citi," doesn't quite have the same ring as "Meet me at Shea." But after 20 or 30 years, it might. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 10:29 AM Seriously, as a taxpayer, do you think Citi is going to recover faster by taking away their ability to market themselves professionally or humiliating them for attempting to do so? Nymr83 Feb 04 2009 10:34 AM ="Edgy DC":37gbfrv1]Seriously, as a taxpayer, do you think Citi is going to recover faster by taking away their ability to market themselves professionally or humiliating them for attempting to do so?[/quote:37gbfrv1] Nope. I also think there isn't a worse thing they can do right now than take their name off a stadium where it already is, thats not a great way to inspire confidence that your business is (now) sound and here to stay. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 10:58 AM So, do you think that Dennis Kucinich, who bills himself as "America's Congressman" is maybe using this as a means of self-promotion? I understand being against these rescue plans, but imposing terms on the corporations after the fact is crap. Lookit me, I'm castrating Citibank and everybody hates them. Eh, shaddup. (off soapbox) Nymr83 Feb 04 2009 11:25 AM ="Edgy DC":c8pm0iyy]So, do you think that Dennis Kucinich, who bills himself as "America's Congressman" is maybe using this as a means of self-promotion?[/quote:c8pm0iyy] No, really? Frayed Knot Feb 04 2009 11:31 AM Kucinich was doing the same thing with the land valuation question of the area around YSIII -- basically acting as a self-appointed over-seer for what is essentially a local issue far from his particular locality. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 12:22 PM ]...the location of the stadium guarantees that the Citi logo will be visible to hundreds of millions of people each year. Citi Field is a giant billboard that will be visible not just to the 4 million-plus people who attend Mets games each year but to the tens of millions of people who drive past it on the Grand Central Parkway, the Van Wyck Expressway, and other roadways and the 25 million or so passengers who fly into and out of LaGuardia Airport each year. I wouldn't mind Gross coming on for Delgado in the ninth for defense. He can really stretch. Citigroup could also buy a few actual billboards and accomplish much the same goal as the author describes. While I agree that this company, if it is to survive, has to (and is entitled to) market itself, reading Gross' article tells me that he has no idea why having the company's name on a ballpark accomplishes that. "Well, people will see it...people who might use their product." If anything, spelling out the reasons as he does, with the "I want a Coke" example and such, makes the whole thing sound more like a vanity-driven sham than I thought before. ]Many companies use Mets games to entertain and schmooze prospective clients. If they used the games from the last two late Septembers, those companies must have been recruiters from Guantanamo Bay. metsguyinmichigan Feb 04 2009 02:16 PM I don't mind the banks buying these things as much as the utilities. Why does a monopoly need to advertise? Especially since they just pass their costs on to the consumer, who has no choice but to use their electricity or natural gas? G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 02:26 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nrfin6h]I don't mind the banks buying these things as much as the utilities. Why does a monopoly need to advertise? Especially since they just pass their costs on to the consumer, who has no choice but to use their electricity or natural gas?[/quote:1nrfin6h] To take up lots of space[/url:1nrfin6h], of course. metsmarathon Feb 04 2009 02:48 PM ]Citi Field, of course, will always be known as Citi Field. of course. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 03:11 PM Should Citi Field never actually be Citi Field, it would be accessible via a number of appropriate thoroughfares, listed here[/url:qvhcvi31]. Benjamin Grimm Feb 04 2009 04:25 PM They should call it by Shea's original name: Flushing Meadows Stadium. Or since "stadium" is out of vogue, they can replace it with Park or Field. G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 05:00 PM More and more, Citi Field, its plainly visible structure notwithstanding, is beginning to remind me of this outstanding historical marker[/url:2p1f2s91] to which TMF introduced Mrs. Fafif and me recently. Citi Field...did it really land? G-Fafif Feb 04 2009 05:01 PM Whoops, impatient double post. themetfairy Feb 04 2009 05:22 PM LOL OlerudOwned Feb 04 2009 05:32 PM In a span of of two paragraphs, he called the naming rights "a classic vanity move" and an "essential, entirely justifiable expense." Kong76 Feb 04 2009 08:25 PM I'm kinda fickle on this subject now that it's become fodder for some folks. What's 20 million a year for twenty years when ya really boil it all down? dgwphotography Feb 05 2009 04:36 AM ="Kong76":2tla5kgq]I'm kinda fickle on this subject now that it's become fodder for some folks. What's 20 million a year for twenty years when ya really boil it all down?[/quote:2tla5kgq] Right now, it wouldn't even pay for Manny. 20 years from now, it wouldn't even pay for a utility infielder.. Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 05:50 AM ="OlerudOwned":1hwowprl]In a span of of two paragraphs, he called the naming rights "a classic vanity move" and an "essential, entirely justifiable expense."[/quote:1hwowprl] Well, he was distinguishing some deals from others. Vic Sage Feb 05 2009 10:34 AM ]But naming rights, especially if they endure, can perform another vital function for brands. It can help make them part of the vernacular. The greatest desire of any marketer is for her product's name to work its way into conversations. When I was growing up, it was common to say, "I want a Coke" when you were referring to any kind of soda. People ask for a Kleenex when they mean a tissue, say they're going to Xerox a document even if they're using a Ricoh copier, and speak of Googling when they refer to an Internet search. Stadium naming rights can help products and brands gain that sort of status. um... while those that control corporate brands want their brands to be ubiquitous, they do NOT want their trademarks to become generic. That's called "genericide", a sort of "public domain" status for trademarks, and thus costs the owner exclusive control over their mark. Of course, the naming of a stadium isn't likely to cause this phenomenon (oh look at that new Citi they're building in Montreal! I bet that'll bring baseball back!), so the point is not only incorrect, it's irrelevant. Now that's journalism! batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2009 09:56 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":2ibvgs3w] I'll probably refer to the new park as Shea Stadium.[/quote:2ibvgs3w] Making money off my idea. Drats. Edgy DC Apr 16 2009 10:15 AM A good re-read. Here's Soupy with the Turning Point of the Thread: ="soupcan"]="Ashie62"] It seems like Citifield is a Brooklyn Dodger sandwich being shoved down Met pants. Oooh! A sandwich shoved into my pants!

2008: Better 2B PHI (Utley / Rollins) CHC (DeRosa / Theriot) COL (Barmes / Tulowitzki) CIN (Phillips / Keppinger) SF (Durham / Vizquel) LA (Kent / Berroa+Furcal) Pretty Close ARZ (Hudson / Drew) ATL (Johnson / Escobar) STL (Kennedy / Izturis) PIT (Sanchez / Wilson) SD (Iguchi / Greene) Better SS FLA (Uggla / Ramirez) NYM (Castillo / Reyes) HOU (Matsui / Tejada) MIL (Weeks / Hardy) WAS (Lopez / Guzman)

I've tried and tried but I still don't get Bull Durham. It's just not funny.

I view Heilman as an extremely valuable reliever who had a bad year. His results in 2005-2007 show him to be an excellent-to-outstanding reliever, and I think the point about Heilman having many quality innings in 2008 is a valid one. It's too bad the moronic fans ruined things.

Any sort of contraction of the playoffs is generally a good idea. Adding teams, rounds or lengthening series is generally a bad idea. That being said, one game playoffs are too short. I suppose a best 2-of-3 would be interesting, but a 1-2 stacking of games is unfair; and 1-1-1 takes too much time. My preferred change for the first round would give best-record team a 2-1-2 series against the wild card team, and to play the wild card team, even if they were from the same division.

So Beltran came in first under the Metbot system, without even factoring in defense? Wow.

The shocker to me is Jorge Sosa. Was it the 4-1 W-L record for Sosa that put him so high?