This Crow Tastes Like Crow

[Benjamin Grimm]

I've always been on Team Sandy.

Team Terry, not so much.

[G-Fafif]

Re: 2006 -- as of Wednesday night, the outcome of Game Seven bothers me a LOT less.

Honestly, even as 2015 got better and better, I still didn't think I was enjoying it as much as 2006, which will always be the one that got away to me. Though they weren't quite so proximate, it was the same feeling I had about deep-down loving 1985 ever so slightly more than 1986 and 1999 marginally more than 2000 (marginally as opposed to significantly only because of finally winning the pennant). The passion burned deeper in the years they came close as opposed to the years that reaped greater reward. Through the regular season and Division Series, I would have still taken 2006 over 2015. I loved how the '06 team owned its division essentially wire to wire. I loved the cast of characters. I loved the sense that they were going all the way.

There's been a change in the standings, though, and I don't think it's the moment talking. I really love this bunch of Mets, not just for what they've accomplished, but how they've accomplished it. I saw the phrase after Game Three, "they outclassed the Cubs," and it really struck me. There's something about this team that just makes you proud, including the way they never let the way you might have underestimated or mischaracterized them slow them down.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I loved the 2006 Mets too, but I like this team better. And I think that I came to that realization at the conclusion of the Dodgers series.

The most joyous moments I've had concerning the Mets, post 1986:

[list:2dk8ncc3]That passed ball by Brad Clontz
Todd Pratt's series-winning walkoff homer against Arizona
2000 NLDS Game 2: Mets come back after J.T. Snow's homer; John Franco strikes out Barry Bonds.
2000 NLDS Game 3: Benny Agbayani's walkoff
September 2001: Mike Piazza homers in the first game after the terrorist attacks.
2012: Johan Santana's no-hitter, which meant more to me than I would have imagined it would.
Mets winning Game 5 of the 2015 NLDS. [/list:u:2dk8ncc3]

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It makes sense that your emotional standings are so volatile at this point, G-Fafif-- between the midseason additions, un-disabling of d'Arnaud and Wright and Matz, and the next-level-Power-Ups for Murph and deGrom, we're only about three months into getting to know this particular team, really.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've always been on Team Sandy. Team Terry, not so much.

[Nods vigorously]
[Without saying anything, owing to the mouth full of crow-body-cavity]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I've said this before but the '06 team was way too artificial for my tastes, and if anything they underperformed. They weren't managed well or built solidly enough -- a single injury to a relief pitcher basically collapsed the whole organization, and despite that they coasted way too much. That they would morph into the '07, '08 and '09 Mets makes me dislike them more as time goes on.

Fooey to the Fake Dynasty '06 Mets

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

Billy still <3's you, bro.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I thought the Mets were baseball's best in '06. They had, easily the best 3-4-5 in baseball, and that's a lot. Four of their first five hitters had MVP caliber seasons and the other guy (Lo Duca) was only an all-star, in the midst of what was probably his career year. That they were mismanaged --- well you know where I stand on that one. They had some flaws, but every team does. You play those three seasons over (06-08), Monte Carlo computer style, and it's not so far-fetched for the Mets to win the pennant three straight years on some of those rolls.

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering.

[Ceetar]

El Segundo Escupidor wrote: They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering.

I don't really think the '06 team was particularly mismanaged. It was those injuries that really did them in, and the timing of them. The timing of Wagner's blown saves (did it come out that he was hurting afterwards? I forget).

Hell, if Perez wasn't a throw in in the deadline trade, do they have to go back to Trachsel for game 7? Alay Soler? Mike Pelfrey?

[Guest Rotblatt]

[list:kltn1fe8]I thought the Mets would hover around .500 all season.
I thought that getting Cespedes was just to appease the fan base, and that it wouldn't substantially help. I might have been right on the first front (but I doubt it), and way, way off base on the second.
I thought Terry Collins was irrelevant at best, but he's made some bold moves with the Mets, and not only have they paid off, but they've also been pretty damn clever.
[/list:u:kltn1fe8]

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering. I don't really think the '06 team was particularly mismanaged. It was those injuries that really did them in, and the timing of them. The timing of Wagner's blown saves (did it come out that he was hurting afterwards? I forget). Hell, if Perez wasn't a throw in in the deadline trade, do they have to go back to Trachsel for game 7? Alay Soler? Mike Pelfrey?

That team had no pitching. Even if Pedro and Hernandez were healthy enough to pitch they weren't difference makers at that point.

If that team had any one of deGrom, Harvey or Syndegaard, they win the Cardinals series easily and win the WS. I know that the pitching was pretty solid in Game 7, but in a do or die game, anything can happen.

I get that Valentin got a hit in the 9th, but if the Mets had the lead, Wagner pitches the 9th instead of Heilman.

But who knows. Maybe Billy fucking blows it.

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

Are you trying to say the Cardinals had a better rotation?

Because the match-ups in the NLCS would have been something like this:
Glavine vs Weaver Actual result: (W)
El Duque vs Carpenter (L)
Maine vs Suppan (L)
Pedro vs Anthony Reyes (W)

As others have pointed out, the Mets lost the ascendancy after Game 3 to one the worst pitching performances in playoff history. They only needed to win one of the two losses and it would been all over.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Guest

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

A message to everyone arguing about who the goats of 2006 were:

[youtube:2xir625y]jKGjOE_7bYI[/youtube:2xir625y]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The return of the Rottweiler is a happy occasion for sure.

[Guest themetfairy]

I'll join the Granderson Crow Buffet.

[Frayed Knot]

Rotblatt wrote: I thought that getting Cespedes was just to appease the fan base, and that it wouldn't substantially help. I might have been right on the first front (but I doubt it), and way, way off base on the second.

First of all, welcome back guy.
But secondly ... I don't get the above complaint.

I mean it's certainly OK to question whether the outcome was going to make enough of a difference. But this was a team that was sitting just 2 games out of 1st place at the time of the deal and was never more than 4.5 games out at any point in the season so there's certainly enough evidence to suggest that this deal -- particularly since it was one of Four made at or near the deadline (Cespedes, Uribe, Johnson & Clippard) -- was made with purpose in mind rather then subterfuge. And while I get that this team's higher-ups haven't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt over the last numbers of years, I think we have to assume at this point that Sandy has enough autonomy to not be browbeaten into making trades where future pieces are given up simply to 'appease' fans - particularly since by 'appease' I assume you really mean 'fool', as if that's going to do any side any good in this whole deal.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Guest

[Guest cooby]

Gotta admit it, when this all started I said to my husband I hope the Pirates get through their playoff because I don't know if the Mets have it in them to get far.

That was before Murphy's rise to god-dom, of course.

[metirish]

I like Terry and am glad he's in the WS and that it turns out he wasn't a placeholder.......but nuts for nothing according to Twitter(me included) no manager can manage at all......

[soupcan]

No crow for me thanks.

Unless hating ownership and doubting their intentions and being certain they were lying to the fan base is/was wrong.

i may have not been all in all season but from early on I was fairly content. Of course my expectations were pretty low as well.

So there's that.

[HahnSolo]

Terry.

I think I said that the Mets better hope they don't get good while he was still here, because he'd screw it up.

But there's no one I was happier for in the celebration the other night.