Shortstop 2015

[ashie62]

This whole The Mets are too cheap or broke to compete for players mantra is getting really old for me. I mean really really old.

Desmond is a highly paid slightly above mediocre SS. Pass.

The 2015 Mets will contend so Sandy must have been doing something right.

Plenty of time to act further, patience...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm curious... for those of you saying "mediocre" or "average" in regards to Desmond... who in your mind is "good," besides, say, Tulo?

[Ceetar]

Hanley, Johnny Peralta?

Castro? Reyes? Crawford?

There's not really a lot of good SS.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I'm not calling him mediocre or average, but I certainly have issues with saying that him winning the Silver Sluggo means he's some kind of definitive game-changer. They picked him out of crowded field of five different guys who could have won, probably getting the edge from (a) being the defending champ, and ( having the power numbers that are particularly unusual for a shortstop, but I have no problem saying Peralta (for instance) was easily the better the asset this past season. So was Tulowitzki, as little as he played.

Hanley, too.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Maybe Andrelton Simmons and J. J. Hardy, too, right?

That's just it. Desmond is a little worse offensively than the best of those, and a little more worse defensively than the best of those, and generally better than most these days, save Tulo and Peralta, Hardy (in a good year), Hanley (in a healthy one) or JoseJoseJoseJose (if you're partial).

[Ceetar]

Also, yes, Desmond is a good _ss_ but the Mets need offense more than they need plus production for that position. You don't generally get the offensive bang for your back at that position so it doesn't seem like it's worth overpaying in prospects or money.

[ashie62]

Mike Aviles * Asdrubal Cabrera Stephen Drew Alex Gonzalez J.J. Hardy (signed) Jed Lowrie John McDonald Hiroyuki Nakajima * Hanley Ramirez Jimmy Rollins * * � player whose current contract includes 2015 option. The FA Marketplace, According to Cots' Baseball Contracts Ya know, that's a list that makes me want to play Wilmer Flores at shortstop for a year.

Ditto..twice.

[smg58]

I don't understand the "obligated" part in the Desmond extension if the primary piece is Murphy. I love the "any team would extend him" bit, while acknowledging in the very next sentence that the Nationals haven't done that. (PS the Scherzer signing suggests that the Nats could afford it if they wanted to.)

And he's also assuming the Nats would help their primary division rival win now.

[Frayed Knot]

"I don't understand the "obligated" part in the Desmond extension..."
--- essentially it's the authors of the various articles backing the rumored trade [syndergaard + one other top prospect] admitting that the trade isn't worth it for the Mets unless Desmond is going to be here for multiple years. So they go ahead and treat the deal plus what amounts to a FA contract as if it's all one move and something the Mets would feel "obligated" to make (read: be forced to overpay) or else risk looking bad a year from now when Desmond's on the FA market and the Nats have Syndgaard plus [Nimmo?, Matz?, Conforto?] under control for another six years each.

[Theoldmole]

I root for the Mets, not the Mets' balance sheet. I don't care how much they pay people.

The Mets have let go infielders with a lot less promise than Wilmer Flores (Marco Scutaro, anyone?) and seen them flourish. I don't automatically assume that Flores can't flourish. Hey, his name is Flores, isn't it?

That said, if they can upgrade the position, I for one am not going to judging the deal by how many dollars it costs the Wilpons.

[Vic Sage]

TheOldMole wrote: I root for the Mets, not the Mets' balance sheet. I don't care how much they pay people. The Mets have let go infielders with a lot less promise than Wilmer Flores (Marco Scutaro, anyone?) and seen them flourish. I don't automatically assume that Flores can't flourish. Hey, his name is Flores, isn't it? That said, if they can upgrade the position, I for one am not going to judging the deal by how many dollars it costs the Wilpons.

ideally i'd agree with you, Mole. But the Pons have demonstrated an unacceptably limited willingness to spend to improve the team, so any monies they tie up in a bad deal is money they don't have for other (potentially better) deals. Its a zero-sum game, so if they overpay to improve at SS, that affects their ability to do other stuff that could help more.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Scoreboard announcements vs. signings? That's tinhat worry.

Now, this sort of rumoring? Well, THAT's when I reach for my e-revolver.

Anthony DiComo wrote: From what I can gather, #Mets have done due diligence on Cuban SS Yoan Moncada, but don't view him as a realistic option given their budget.

Y'know, the guy with plus-contact and -strike-zone-judgment, who was outrunning Rusney Castillo and Puig in workouts as a teenager?

Okay, Tulo may not be fully healthy. And Syndergaard's a lot to give up for Desmond, maybe. And we didn't even know Grigorius was available for so little. But this guy is young, extremely polished for his age (or for a 25-to-27-year-old, even), and ticks all the boxes. He just happens to wreck our nonexistent budget.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Whacky suggestion of the day. Brewers just traded Gallardo to Texas for a couple guys including young SS Luis Sardinas, who can pick-em and shows at least some ability as a singles hitter.

How about we step in offering a replacement for Gallardo (Gee) and insurance for Sardinas (Tejada); in exchange for Jean Segura, who sophomore-slumped badly last year, had the tragedy of his kid dying, couldn't work out a contract deal, and could use a change of scenery?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Mets rumors: Shortstop Yoan Moncada won't fit in Mets' budget

By Steve Sypa
@SteveSypa on Jan 20 2015, 7:48p

According to Anthony DiComo, Mets beat writer for MLB.com, the Mets have done their due diligence on Cuban shortstop Yoan Moncada but do not view him as a realistic option due to budgetary constraints. If the Mets are interested in signing Moncada, funds must be drawn from their 2014-2015 international bonus pool, the MLB-assigned funds used to sign international rookies. The Mets, for their part, have already spent roughly $2 million of their $2.7 million 2014-2015 international bonus pool, signing shortstops Kenny Hernandez ($1,000,000), Yoel Romero ($300,000), and Edgardo Fermin ($250,000), left-handed pitcher Tulio Garcia ($175,000), outfielder Daniel Guzman ($140,000(, and right-handed pitcher Jhoander Chourio ($130,000), in addition to numerous lower profile signings with no published dollar amounts made public. According to numerous industry sources, the Cuban shortstop will command a large signing bonus, perhaps as high as $30 or $40 million. The penalty for exceeding the bonus pool allotment by 15% or more is a 100% tax on the overage and a prohibition on signing players for more than $250,000 in the next two signing periods. A 100% tax on roughly $30 or $40 million is a level of financial commitment that is simply a hurdle that many teams�including the Mets�simply cannot scale. The Cuban shortstop was granted his free agent status by Major League Baseball back in mid-November, but he has yet to receive his unblocking license from the Department of the Treasury Office of Foreign Assets. Because of the ongoing U.S. trade embargo with the communist island to its south, MLB teams cannot sign Moncada until he receives the clearance. According to Baseball America's Ben Badler, if Moncada were eligible in the MLB Amateur Draft, he would undoubtedly be a top selection, perhaps even the number one selection overall. The switch-hitting youngster hit a combined .276/.391/.375 in the 52nd and 53rd Serie Nacional de Beisbol and profiles only to improve. Along with excellent awareness at the plate, Moncada has a level, line-drive swing that has already exhibited growing power. In addition, he possesses blazing speed and a strong arm, strong enough to play any infield position, including shortstop. Were the Mets to add Moncada, the Cienfuegos native would likely become their top minor league prospect and would likely be one of the top prospects in all of Major League Baseball.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2015/1/20/7863337/mets-yoan-moncada-rumors-payroll-budget

[Guest d'Kong76]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/rich-teams-edge-yoan-moncada/
"That�s why you can comfortably count out teams such as the Indians, Twins, Royals, Pirates, Athletics and Mets when it comes to handicapping the Moncada sweepstakes."

Maybe they should change their name to The Corona Mets.

[Edgy MD]

Those rules are miserable, aren't they?

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Those rules are miserable, aren't they?

pretty much, yeah.

one guy saying Mancada is going to be the top prospect in MLB is just one guy saying that. Doesn't mean he's a slam dunk to be their answer this year even if he is.

While I doubt the Mets can/will afford ~$60 for a signing bonus (including fees) anyway, there is also the restraint on the next two signing periods to consider that applies to the Mets but NOT to some other teams. It's not just about money.

And even if it were, that's a hell of a lot of cash to spend on a signing bonus.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Those rules are miserable, aren't they? pretty much, yeah. one guy saying Mancada is going to be the top prospect in MLB is just one guy saying that. Doesn't mean he's a slam dunk to be their answer this year even if he is. While I doubt the Mets can/will afford ~$60 for a signing bonus (including fees) anyway, there is also the restraint on the next two signing periods to consider that applies to the Mets but NOT to some other teams. It's not just about money. And even if it were, that's a hell of a lot of cash to spend on a signing bonus.

The rules are the same for every team.

...because of the payment structure required to sign Moncada, the teams that sources consider the leaders to sign him are mostly big-market, high-revenue clubs.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/rich-teams-edge-yoan-moncada/

You would think, logically, that "big market" and "high revenue" are synonymous, redundant ways to describe a baseball team. But leave it to the Wilpon Mets to create an exception.

Hey, Mr. Met Apologist: how would you like this story to read? Maybe the writers can write that Moncada should be avoided at any price because he's a certain-bust and a pedophile and on top of that he also likes Jennifer Aniston movies.

[Ceetar]

the rules are NOT the same for every team.

Some teams have already violated the cap. Those teams will already be hard-capped after July 2nd. They have no further penalty to signing Mancada whereas the Mets would get hard-capped for those 2 periods.

So, money aside, if there is a player to be had in those next two signing periods the Mets could actually be better off waiting, in a signing period with less teams that can sign a guy demanding a signing bonus, to make a play on a big guy.

It's messy, and there is obvious pairing between the Mets need for a SS right now and Mancada, but it's hardly just a "nah, they're broke" situation.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Let's debate my Segura idea instead.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons.

At 19, Monconda doesn't really project to step in and push a team ahead a few games in the standings this year. He certainly could be a teenage wunderkind, stepping in and immediately becoming a core contributor at the big-league level, but that's hardly to be expected.

Beyond that, while all agree that he has the footspeed Flores (for instance) lacks, not all the scouts like him at shortstop, and some see him ticketed for second or third.

I'm curious about the Segura idea.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's debate my Segura idea instead.

Curious about Segura. Didn't know about the personal stuff last year, but the year before he was pretty good (And the year before, his first, he was Ruben Tejada) He's got more speed though, and last year his babip was a blip lower. decent walker.

I'm not trading Gee AND Tejada for that. (Tejada will be a very good SS/2B backup guy this year)

But I'd do it if they threw in a prospect of sorts. Doesn't have to be top flight guy, just someone. Or maybe a solid lefty pen guy?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: the rules are NOT the same for every team. Some teams have already violated the cap. Those teams will already be hard-capped after July 2nd. They have no further penalty to signing Mancada whereas the Mets would get hard-capped for those 2 periods. So, money aside, if there is a player to be had in those next two signing periods the Mets could actually be better off waiting, in a signing period with less teams that can sign a guy demanding a signing bonus, to make a play on a big guy. It's messy, and there is obvious pairing between the Mets need for a SS right now and Mancada, but it's hardly just a "nah, they're broke" situation.

The rules are the same for every team. Some teams simply chose to play their hand differently.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons.

Well, then there you go. Now we can all go back to pretending that the Mets aren't constrained by their poverty not that money matters anyway and we can root for Flores or Tejada to hold the fort while the Mets kill time until the next wave of young Honus Wagners hits Citi Field. And maybe Wilmer FLores develops into a Honus Wagner himself giving the Mets five instead of four Honus Wagners in the near future.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's debate my Segura idea instead. Curious about Segura. Didn't know about the personal stuff last year, but the year before he was pretty good (And the year before, his first, he was Ruben Tejada) He's got more speed though, and last year his babip was a blip lower. decent walker. I'm not trading Gee AND Tejada for that. (Tejada will be a very good SS/2B backup guy this year) But I'd do it if they threw in a prospect of sorts. Doesn't have to be top flight guy, just someone. Or maybe a solid lefty pen guy?

Segura was the guy traded for Zach Greinke. You can't not include Tejada or expect a prospect back in getting him. In fact I'm afraid my offer is too little.

In addition to having his kid die he was hurt when douchy teammate Ryan Braun hit him in the head with a careless practice swing.

All that and he rallied to finish strong last year, due for major bounceback, my sources are predicting.

[Frayed Knot]

One wouldn't think that Sandy would be all that high on Segura's .041 career Walk rate - essentially that's Murphy-esque coupled with a lower BA and half the 2Bs at a much better hitting park.
Is a VERY legit SS with speed though, and just 24 y/o (25 in March) with 4 years of team control.

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons. Well, then there you go. Now we can all go back to pretending that the Mets aren't constrained by their poverty not that money matters anyway and we can root for Flores or Tejada to hold the fort while the Mets kill time until the next wave of young Honus Wagners hits Citi Field. And maybe Wilmer FLores develops into a Honus Wagner himself giving the Mets five instead of four Honus Wagners in the near future.

And there you go. Talking to me like I'm a two-year old scoring on the wrong side of the curve on the aptitude tests.

Come on. Let's be friends. I have a lot of great things at my house.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons. Well, then there you go. Now we can all go back to pretending that the Mets aren't constrained by their poverty not that money matters anyway and we can root for Flores or Tejada to hold the fort while the Mets kill time until the next wave of young Honus Wagners hits Citi Field. And maybe Wilmer FLores develops into a Honus Wagner himself giving the Mets five instead of four Honus Wagners in the near future. And there you go. Talking to me like I'm a two-year old scoring on the wrong side of the curve on the aptitude tests. Come on. Let's be friends. I have a lot of great things at my house.

What? We're not friends? I like stuff. Whatcha got at home? Answer the second question first.

I'm not into comic books.

[Lefty Specialist]

[A Boy Named Seo]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's debate my Segura idea instead. Curious about Segura. Didn't know about the personal stuff last year, but the year before he was pretty good (And the year before, his first, he was Ruben Tejada) He's got more speed though, and last year his babip was a blip lower. decent walker. I'm not trading Gee AND Tejada for that. (Tejada will be a very good SS/2B backup guy this year) But I'd do it if they threw in a prospect of sorts. Doesn't have to be top flight guy, just someone. Or maybe a solid lefty pen guy? Segura was the guy traded for Zach Greinke. You can't not include Tejada or expect a prospect back in getting him. In fact I'm afraid my offer is too little. In addition to having his kid die he was hurt when douchy teammate Ryan Braun hit him in the head with a careless practice swing. All that and he rallied to finish strong last year, due for major bounceback, my sources are predicting.

Yeah, he'd command more than Gee/Tejada, but not much more, I'd imagine. Led by a trio of interchangeable mediocrities in Lohse, Garza, and Wily Peralta, an up-and-coming arm like Montero maybe (packaged with Tejada) could be sweet enough. If this was the NBA, I'd throw in a 2017 2nd round draft pick, too. Done and dusted.