Musical Outfielders Watch

[Benjamin Grimm]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Barring injuries this has to be the regular/most common.

[Frayed Knot]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)

[ashie62]

Take EY out and the beginnings of a losing streak appear... I am superstious...

[TransMonk]

WAR leader...just sayin'.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: WAR leader...just sayin'.

not even true on baseball reference anymore. Lagares and Niese.

[TransMonk]

[sarcasm]Well sure, he's been on the bench for two days.[/sarcasm]

[Frayed Knot]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's looking like this isn't much of a "rotation" so far, huh?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).

[Benjamin Grimm]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
[crossout:3naydb4t]Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).[/crossout:3naydb4t]
Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (4)

Oops� The lineup at game time differs from what was originally posted. Eric out, Lagares back in.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Eric Young was scratched because of an eye injury suffered during batting practice.

[Frayed Knot]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
[crossout:qq7ychpg]Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).[/crossout:qq7ychpg]
Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (4)
Day 5, 05/05/2014. Starting outfield: Eric Young, Granderson, Abreu. Sitting: Lagares (1)

[Benjamin Grimm]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
[crossout]Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).[/crossout]
Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (4)
Day 5, 05/05/2014. Starting outfield: Eric Young, Granderson, Abreu. Sitting: Lagares (1), Chris Young (1)

(Chris Young also sitting.)

[Frayed Knot]

Day 1, 05/01/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
[crossout]Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).[/crossout]
Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (4)
Day 5, 05/05/2014. Starting outfield: Eric Young, Granderson, Abreu. Sitting: Lagares (1), Chris Young (1)
Day 6, 05/06/2014. Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. Sitting: Eric Young, Abreu

[Frayed Knot]

Day 1, 05/01/2014 (@ Colorado). Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (1).
Day 2, 05/02/2014 (@ Colorado). Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (2)
Day 3, 05/03/2014 (@ Colorado). Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (3)
[crossout]Day 4, 05/04/2014. Starting outfield: Granderson, Chris Young, Eric Young. Sitting: Lagares (1).[/crossout]
Day 4, 05/04/2014 (@ Colorado). Starting outfield: Granderson, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Eric Young (4)
Day 5, 05/05/2014 (@ Miami). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Granderson, Abreu. Sitting: Lagares (1), Chris Young (1)
Day 6, 05/06/2014 (@ Miami). Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. Sitting: Eric Young (5)
Day 7, 05/07/2014 (@ Miami). Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. Sitting: Eric Young (6)
Day 8, 05/09/2014 (home - Phils). Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. Sitting: Eric Young (7)
Day 9, 05/10/2014 (home - Phils). Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. Sitting: Eric Young (8)
Day 10, 05/11/2014 (home - Phils). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Lagares, Chris Young. Sitting: Grandrson (1)
Day 11, 05/12/2014 (@ Yanx). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Chris Young, Granderson. Sitting: Lagares (2). DH = Abreu
Day 12, 05/13/2014 (@ Yanx). Starting outfield: Chris Young, Lagares, Granderson. DH = Eric Young
Day 13, 05/14/2014 (home - Yanx). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Chris Young, Granderson. Sitting: Lagares (3)
Day 14, 05/15/2014 (home - Yanx). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Chris Young, Granderson, Sitting: Lagares (4)
Day 15: 05/16/2014 (@ Washington). Starting outfield: Eric Young, Granderson, Abreu. Sitting: Lagares (5), Chris Young (2)

[batmagadanleadoff]

Animated TC: Lagares was never 'benched'
By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com

WASHINGTON -- Juan Lagares is in the starting lineup for a second straight day Sunday, after not starting four of the previous five games. Asked what Lagares had to do to become an everyday player, Terry Collins went on the offensive regarding the line of questioning. "He has been an everyday player. He got into a little bit of a funk," Collins said before the series finale against the Washington Nationals. "You know, it's not like I sat him for seven days. I sat him for two days, for cripes sake. We get a little carried away here. Somebody gets a day off and it's like the sky is falling in. It's not. He's the center fielder. "He had a big day yesterday (homer, three RBIs, homer-saving catch). I hope he has a big day today. It's not going to be easy. Jordan Zimmermann is real good. If he has a rough day today, you know what, you tip your hat and get after it tomorrow. "In my opinion, this is what the market is here. If I give Grandy a day off, he's 'benched.' If I give C.Y. a day off, he's 'benched.' If I give Juan a day off, he's 'benched.' That's not really the case. I know you've got to sell newspapers, so do what you've got to say. But when I come in here every day and figure out who has got to be in the lineup, somebody can't play. And today somebody is not going to play (Chris Young). I don't get too bent out of shape about it, because I know in the long run, after the next 120 games, they're all going to [have] play[ed]."

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/86920/animated-tc-lagares-was-never-benched?ex_cid=espnapi_public

[batmagadanleadoff]

Big brouhaha in Mets Nation over the Lagares "benching", including double barrel reporting over at Faith and Fear.

http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2014/05/18/freedom/

http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2014/05/17/how-juan-lagares-became-immortal/


My crazy theory? Lagares was another Shake Shack food poisoning victim, and his "holiday" was all a big smokescreen by the stupid Mets brass just to protect the burger image.

[Frayed Knot]

"You know, it's not like I sat him for seven days. I sat him for two days, for cripes sake."

-- Well, four days out of five if we want to be accurate about it Terry, but I get his point. That's still not like Lagares was stuffed in a dungeon with the key thrown away.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: "You know, it's not like I sat him for seven days. I sat him for two days, for cripes sake." -- Well, four days out of five if we want to be accurate about it Terry, but I get his point. That's still not like Lagares was stuffed in a dungeon with the key thrown away.

Close enough.

If there's any problem with Lagares, it's his plate discipline. And 'working on his swing' is not going to fix that.

He's been the best outfielder on the team this season, and a couple of slow-ish days with the bat is not cause to banish him to work on it and claim both "development" and "prioritizing offense over defense"

But it's silly to nitpick Collins' words because he just spouts whatever he feels like saying. Actions speak louder and all the actions seem to suggest Collins doesn't realize Lagares is his best outfielder.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: But it's silly to nitpick Collins' words because he just spouts whatever he feels like saying. Actions speak louder and all the actions seem to suggest Collins doesn't realize Lagares is his best outfielder.

The Mets have played 43 games to date and Lagares has played in every one he's been available for (missed 13 while on the DL), starting 25 of those 30 and appearing later in the other 5.
Argue if you want that skipping the wonderfulness that is Luan Lagares in even one game is some sort of capital offense, but let's not twist this into a Terry=clueless angle, particularly as he needs to juggle 4 OFers into 3 spots.
After years of not having enough real outfielders to fill the three spots, I'm happy with the current excess if you want to call it that.

[Edgy MD]

Terry=clueless had stopped being an angle during those two Yankee games at Citi, and pretty much turned into an established fact among the blogosphere and the commentariat (not a few of whom had wondered only days earlier why EY was eating pine).

The swiftness and acidity of pro-Lagares wave was almost shocking. And I'm a supporter of the cause. Lagares won DWL Rookie of the Year, and I'm thinking he may be a candidate for a giant leap forward this season, given the chance. But come on.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: But it's silly to nitpick Collins' words because he just spouts whatever he feels like saying. Actions speak louder and all the actions seem to suggest Collins doesn't realize Lagares is his best outfielder. The Mets have played 43 games to date and Lagares has played in every one he's been available for (missed 13 while on the DL), starting 25 of those 30 and appearing later in the other 5. Argue if you want that skipping the wonderfulness that is Luan Lagares in even one game is some sort of capital offense, but let's not twist this into a Terry=clueless angle, particularly as he needs to juggle 4 OFers into 3 spots. After years of not having enough real outfielders to fill the three spots, I'm happy with the current excess if you want to call it that.

It's not an excess. Granderson's sorta been alright after a slow start, Chris Young had a good week somewhere but hasn't really been good otherwise. I've been pretty much accepting of Collins. I know he's not the best but I don't expect the Mets, or most teams, to sign a really good manager. Backman will be much of the same. But there is literally nothing to back up the way he's managed the outfield.

Lagares IS their best outfielder. You wouldn't sit Daniel Murphy four games of five, strictly using him as a pinch hitter and maybe defensive replacement during that stretch. Particularly if you're talking about getting starts for a guy with an OPS of .619 or a 40 year old outfielder who's clearly well past his prime.

Collins is trying to work Abreu in like he's going to be Marlon Byrd, but just because you win one scratch off doesn't mean the next one will also net you money. Play the guy that's better, younger, and part of the future. And if you want to work Eric Young in because you've got some crazy notion that who bats leadoff is some sort of special power, fine, the other outfielders aren't exactly lighting it up. Don't sit the best on that often, it's just bad strategy.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I dunno. From what I've seen, if Chris Young would do a few more pushups he'd have 8 or 10 dingeroos by now.

Right? He makes at least one warning track out just about every night.

As I've said before he needs another 100 trips to the plate before we declare him a bust.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: It's not an excess.

It's been crazy.

Ceetar wrote: But there is literally nothing to back up the way he's managed the outfield.

Excessive.

Ceetar wrote: Collins is trying to work Abreu in like he's going to be Marlon Byrd, but just because you win one scratch off doesn't mean the next one will also net you money.

He's started five times in a month.

Collins, of course, was ripped mercilessly for demonstrating any faith in Byrd.

[Ceetar]

yes, because Byrd had an OPS of .657 in April after a bad year the year before and Collins continued to play him like he was an All-Star.

Maybe religiously playing him is what got him going, or maybe it was simple adjustments he made on his own that could've been made via the bench? Sort of like Collins insinuated Lagares was doing last week?

But fine, give credit to Collins for getting him going. But the results with Byrd mean nothing for Abreu, and starting Abreu 3 times in 6 games while sitting Lagares 4/5 is illogical.

[Edgy MD]

yes, because Byrd had an OPS of .657 in April after a bad year the year before and Collins continued to play him like he was an All-Star.

This sort of thing is just revisionism.

Collins was ripped for having any hope for Byrd IN SPRING TRAINING. Byrd started little more than half the time in April, as the team sorted through less-than-ideal options. He was worked in more regularly when he began to hit. And he hit and hit.

Ceetar wrote: But fine, give credit to Collins for getting him going.

I'm not crediting anybody with anything. You brought this up. As an analogy for Abreu. An analogy that doesn't hold up.

Ceetar wrote: But the results with Byrd mean nothing for Abreu, and starting Abreu 3 times in 6 games while sitting Lagares 4/5 is illogical.

You're kind of playing a shell game here with who played when.

[Ceetar]

My analogy holds up just fine. Terry Collins over-playing lesser veterans and not recognizing where his offense really comes from. Bobby Abreu should not be getting starts, except maybe once in a blue moon and he got 3 of them in 6 days.

Juan Lagares should not be sitting four of five games, especially after he was only 4/21 with 2 walks. It wasn't like he was hitless in a week.

Eric Young should not be starting every day, and he almost definitely should not be leading off. 'fast' is not enough of a reason to give the guy the most AB on the team.


And fine, some of these things on their own you can sorta squint and understand a little. See if Abreu has anything he can give you. See if Young's speed can take advantage of a crappy Yankee infield defense, but altogether they lose you games. It's not hard to see in the Yankee series where Juan Lagares would've gotten you the win with EY's poor defense, baserunning blunder, and stranding an army on base.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: ... But the results with Byrd mean nothing for Abreu, and starting Abreu 3 times in 6 games while sitting Lagares 4/5 is illogical.

Abreu has started 5 games total with the Mets: on 4/24, 4/26, 5/5, 5/12, & 5/16. There's no math in the world that translates into "3 times in 6 games" anywhere there. Thrice in 11 games is the best we can do.
Add in the fact that the 4/24 & 4/26 were while Lagares was on the DL, and the 5/12 was as a DH and we're down to twice in 24 games that Abreu has started instead of Lagares and only once for a full game (Friday night).

As the old saying goes, you may be entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Guest

[Ceetar]

you're right, I mixed up which of Niese's starts he started. Thought it was the 11th, not the 5th.

He's doing a wee bit better (1 start in about 5 and a half games) than Collins suggested he would. That's still too much.