First Base, 2014

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Thanks for yet another illuminating contribution.

From the WATPy world, some media twatterers suggesting dBaggs would unload one of either Didi Gregorius or Chris Owings to get pitching AND would like David Price. Seems to me Mets could get in on this action seeing as Tampa likes Ike Davis (we hear) and the dBaggs don't have the riches to acquire Price straight-up.

[Ceetar]

From the supposed word about the Brewers camp about the Ike Davis negotiations, it sounds like Sandy's sticking to his "GIVE US AN AWESOME PROSPECT. No? You're out." strategy that seems to have netted us Wheeler and others.

We'll see if someone bites I guess.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: No way I trade either for a guy I know will be a bench player, even a good one.

Maybe that is setting the standard a bit too low -- but at the moment we're not sure that whoever turns out to be the better of these two will qualify as much more than a decent bench player and maybe neither will. All's I'm saying is that I'd prefer to have one of these guys plus a mediocre player who plays a different position and brings a different set of skills rather than two similar mediocre guys.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Sandy also has plenty of time. Tracky and friends might be impatient. But there's no real rush.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: From the supposed word about the Brewers camp about the Ike Davis negotiations, it sounds like Sandy's sticking to his "GIVE US AN AWESOME PROSPECT. No? You're out." strategy that seems to have netted us Wheeler and others. We'll see if someone bites I guess.

You can leverage Beltran like that. Hell, you can even, in a thin market, kindasorta leverage Marlon Byrd like that, apparently.

But you CAN'T do that with Ike Davis, at full arbitrated price. Well, you can't, and expect to succeed.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Hart is signing with Seattle, Internet says, perhaps increasing their appetite for Davisness.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Thanks, Fake Smart GM!

With midpriced guys like Kendrys Morales, Jeff Baker, Morse, and Loney still out there, it's STILL a buyer's market, innit?

OE: And Carlos Pena. And Overbay. AND Michael Young.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: From the supposed word about the Brewers camp about the Ike Davis negotiations, it sounds like Sandy's sticking to his "GIVE US AN AWESOME PROSPECT. No? You're out." strategy that seems to have netted us Wheeler and others. We'll see if someone bites I guess. You can leverage Beltran like that. Hell, you can even, in a thin market, kindasorta leverage Marlon Byrd like that, apparently. But you CAN'T do that with Ike Davis, at full arbitrated price. Well, you can't, and expect to succeed.

Depends. I've always said Alderson's biggest card to play is his willingness to walk away and NOT make a deal. I suspect he's got the 'nothing good' contingency for Davis and will end up playing him if that happens and dangle Duda or put him in the minors or something.

Not trading Hairston is a similar case. It shows teams that he's NOT going to come down to your level and accept your crap trade offer. If you want Ike, you pay the price Sandy demands.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Thanks, Fake Smart GM! With midpriced guys like Kendrys Morales, Jeff Baker, Morse, and Loney still out there, it's STILL a buyer's market, innit? OE: And Carlos Pena. And Overbay. AND Michael Young.

But are we looking to dump Ike because he's a bad player, or are we leveraging a surplus of talent in one area to fill a hole.

There are worse things than having Ike Davis at first base next season.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else.

That evil plan would have a better chance of working if there weren't so many other first basemen available, as listed in a previous post.

[Benjamin Grimm]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: There are worse things than having Ike Davis at first base next season.

Even if he's hitting .160 on June 30? As we've seen, that's a very real possibility.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The way Sandy et. al. have been talking/leaking, it seems that they're looking to trade Ike or bust, doesn't it?

[dinosaur jesus]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else. That evil plan would have a better chance of working if there weren't so many other first basemen available, as listed in a previous post.

So maybe he should sign all of them, and then auction off the ones he doesn't want?

[Benjamin Grimm]

There used to be a rule, I don't know if it's still in effect, that said that a newly signed free agent couldn't be traded until June 1 (or July 1?) of his first year with his new team.

[Vic Sage]

sign Kendrys morales, trade Davis for a SS or SPer, send Duda to AAA.
done. next.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think we gotta distinguish which shortstop you swap Davis for.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else.

The only problem with that theory is that you then put yourself in the position where everyone knows you have to trade your guy - thereby increasing the odds that you'd be driving down the price you'd get for him instead of raising it.
And that's also part of the problem with the 'Keep Both' school of thinking. Didn't we just recently pick-up as low-BA/hi-Slg type of 1st sacker to go along with the already crowded Duda + Davis + Allen Dykstra trio?

There used to be a rule, I don't know if it's still in effect, that said that a newly signed free agent couldn't be traded until June 1 (or July 1?) of his first year with his new team.

Without said player's permission, yes.

[Vic Sage]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think we gotta distinguish which shortstop you swap Davis for.

i've done enough of Sandy's job for one day... now its time for a mai tai.

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else. The only problem with that theory is that you then put yourself in the position where everyone knows you have to trade your guy - thereby increasing the odds that you'd be driving down the price you'd get for him instead of raising it. And that's also part of the problem with the 'Keep Both' school of thinking. Didn't we just recently pick-up as low-BA/hi-Slg type of 1st sacker to go along with the already crowded Duda + Davis + Allen Dykstra trio?

I didn't know we were a school.

I think I've tried extensively to make clear that the notion is you can keep both, not that you must keep both. So calling it a "'Keep Both' school" is a little unfair. As is the idea that that nameless first sacker (Brandon Allen) and Dykstra are somehow forcing the issue. For one, the latter has never until this been considered part of a "trio," a false equivalency made more risible by the fact that he's yet to appear in AAA, let alone the majors. For two, his name is "Allan." For three, he's got a broken fibula.

And I love my Allan Dykstra!

[Frayed Knot]

Yes, neither you, nor anyone else I know, is stating that we must keep both, just as I'm not saying that we can't keep both.
So to state my Ike/Lucas philosophy as clearly as possible so as to maybe wrap this up and to avoid the specter of a thread-long parsing contest:

* To those who say that we shouldn't trade one of the other unless we get in return either a solid starter at another position or a good young prospect --- my answer would be that neither ID or LD themselves qualify as solid starters at the moment; nor do either have their stats going in the right direction; nor have either shown any particular knack for staying healthy; nor are either young enough (27 & 28 by ST) to be considered up-and-comers themselves anymore.
Yeah, I'd like to get a haul for either one of them too, I just don't think it's going to happen.

* To the idea that we can/should keep both so as to back up each other and/or spur on each other --- I'd prefer to use that redundancy as trade bait so as to shore up a different position, of which we have several.

* To the part about simply stashing Duda in AAA --- the team has recently picked up one player with similar type age & skills, and has another with 1-1/2 seasons of AA under his belt with a performance last year that merits at least a one-step promotion so there'd also be some redundancy with that strategy as well.
I also suspect that hanging onto both with the idea that their trade value might rise in the future is that it's at least as likely to go the other way.

[Edgy MD]

It's hardly a parsing contest, but hell, folks are going to clarify a position if it's misrepresented.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

dinosaur jesus wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else. That evil plan would have a better chance of working if there weren't so many other first basemen available, as listed in a previous post. So maybe he should sign all of them, and then auction off the ones he doesn't want?

The Mariners appear to be exploring this avenue.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Jon Heyman says that the Mets and Brewers are meeting today to talk about Ike Davis.

[ashie62]

Rubin tweets the Mets will not "give away" Ike..

Well duh... It may be easier to move a red headed stepchild than Ike..

[Edgy MD]

Well, if you disagree, then it makes no sense to preface that disagreement with "Duh."

It would actually be quite easy to move him.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, if you disagree, then it makes no sense to preface that disagreement with "Duh." It would actually be quite easy to move him.

Now Bartolo..you might need a bulldozer to move.


oops, wrong thread.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, if you disagree, then it makes no sense to preface that disagreement with "Duh." It would actually be quite easy to move him.

I want Davis in section 108 in the Meaodowlands...

[Edgy MD]

That would be quite obviously counterproductive and pointlessly vindictive. Please try harder.

[Frayed Knot]

Ken Davidoff -- Clubs are intrigued by Ike Davis� ceiling but scared by both his swing (the mechanics) and his swings (the streakiness) so it just doesn�t look realistic for the Mets to get a strong return on Davis. A bullpen piece could be as good as it gets.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There's been a lot of talk about Ike's ceiling (especially on Mets Hot Stove this week) but you can't overlook his basement. And it seems that the teams the Mets are talking to are well aware of Ike's basement.