Quizzes to Take While You're In Cleveland.

[G-Fafif]

Great quiz, but I'm hoping a later edition will require a 46th answer.



But we'll probably have to settle for a different one.

[G-Fafif]

Zvon wrote: Who the fuck is Joe Gordon?

Someone my father referenced now and then for reasons that escape me...and someone whose managerial tenure stuck in my head until it was useful.

Learn more NOW!!!

[G-Fafif]

Even with five hall of famers, the Cubs couldn't beat the Mets

DUCK 100 62 .617 --
Bear 92 70 .568 8

Ah...combines my two favorite bears: The defeated Cub and the pander bear.

[Zvon]

G-Fafif wrote: Zvon wrote: Who the fuck is Joe Gordon? Someone my father referenced now and then for reasons that escape me...and someone whose managerial tenure stuck in my head until it was useful. Learn more NOW!!!

A 2nd baseman with 253 homers. Out for two prime yrs in WWII. And talk of a Yankee smokin weed in 1941!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Who the fuck is Joe Gordon? Did Grimm make that card?

According to this piece, even die-hard Yankee fans don't know who Joe Gordon is.

Joe Gordon is proof that being a New York Yankees star second baseman for a few years is good enough to get in the Hall of Fame. As if electing Phil Rizzuto under similar circumstances was not enough, the veterans committee repeated the mistake in late 2008. The difference seems to be that Joe Gordon really did have some Hall of Fame years � just not enough of them, in our view. How, exactly, did Joe Gordon accrue enough Hall of Fame votes? He fails the Fame test � within a few years of retirement from baseball in 1970 he was all but forgotten by most fans. Upon his election, even die-hard Yankees fans asked �Who?� He fails the career statistics test, primarily because he lacks longevity. He batted over .300 just once, in 1942, and his career lasted just 11 years. It�s true that Gordon is the sole American League infielder of his era with 253 home runs and 1,530 hits; only Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio (both outfielders) equalled those numbers while Gordon was active. However, his career stats cannot be even superficially compare to the entire careers of Williams and DiMaggio, nor most other Hall of Famers. Gordon�s �era� lasted little more than a decade. Gordon was named Most Valuable Player in 1942 (beating Ted Williams), but by then the ranks of the players had been thinned by World War II. He was a nine-time All-Star between 1939 and 1949. But neither of those accomplishments, even taken together, should be a ticket to the Hall of Fame. He never led the American League in an important batting category. His fielding was average to above average though he did form part of a good double play combination with Frankie Crosetti and Babe Dahlgren. His Yankees World Series appearances were undistinguished except in 1941, when he batted .500 with an outstanding slugging percentage of .929. His nine All-Star Game appearances led to only four hits, even though he started in five of the games. Gordon supporters cite anecdotal evidence, always suspect in baseball, that includes high praise from his manager. He was, it is said, known as one of the best second basemen of all time. If so, where were the Hall of Fame voters when Gordon retired? After all, the voters were the baseball writers who actually saw him play. Here are more objective observations about Joe Gordon�s career: Aside from the war year of 1942 when he won the American League Most Valuable Player award, Gordon never finished in the top five in MVP balloting. At the time, his career was not viewed as being in the top tier of his peers. His post-season batting was just average, at best. He batted .243 and his slugging percentage was .427, neither of which are Hall of Fame caliber. Finding someone with comparable overall batting stats from the 1940s American League, we end up with Vern Stephens � a St. Louis Brown who is hardly a household name. Gordon had fewer than 1,000 career runs batted in, well below 100 career stolen bases and less than 3,000 total bases. Joe Gordon played just 11 years � he lost 1944 and 1945 to the war � and ended with a mere 1,530 hits and 253 home runs, in both cases little more than half of the figures that are normally associated with hard-hitting Hall of Famers. He just didn�t play long enough to amass impressive numbers. Gordon played in just 1,551 games, so reliable fielding stats may be shaky. But his career fielding percentage of .970 is almost exactly average for career players of the same era. Likewise other fielding stats that take into account attempts and put-outs. So what is the argument for electing a very good but not famous journeyman infielder to the Hall of Fame? First, look at the value placed on him by his teams: The Yankees traded Gordon to Cleveland in 1946 for an excellent pitcher, Allie Reynolds, but he was released by the Indians just four years later. Like many marginal Hall of Fame inductees, Joe Gordon managed minor- and major-league teams for many years after retiring as a player. The players from his managing era are now on the Hall of Fame veterans committee. (Gordon�s best finish was second place with the 1959 Cleveland Indians, so no statistical explanation there.) In 1960, Gordon was traded to Detroit for Jimmy Dykes, the only trade in baseball history involving two managers. In fact, managing probably kept his name current among the voters even after his death in 1978. What does the Hall of Fame press release say about Gordon? �Gordon combined power and fielding ability like few second basemen before or since. He hit 20 or more homers seven times, drove in 100-plus runs four times and averaged 89 RBIs and 83 runs scored per season. With the leather, Gordon posted a .970 fielding percentage, leading the American League in assists four times and double plays three times. �In 1942, Gordon won the AL Most Valuable Player Award, edging out Triple Crown-winner Ted Williams of the Boston Red Sox. He was part of World Series-winning teams in New York in 1938, '39, '41 and '43 and helped the Indians win their last Fall Classic in 1948. Gordon died on April 14, 1978.� A lot of team achievements are mentioned, but where are the outstanding career numbers? Assists and double plays are equally a result of sure-handed teammates, no surprise on the Yankees. Yes, Joe Gordon was the only American League second baseman from his active years to have more than 25 home runs, and he did it four times. But when it comes to general hitting stats among second basemen, his on-base percentage is roughly equal to Snuffy Stirnweiss�s. Gordon was passed over many times in Hall of Fame voting, including the famous 1988 veterans committee vote that resulted in no inductees. Bill James, a leading baseball statistician, was apparently a big booster for Gordon, which no doubt helped with the 2008 veterans committee vote. But James himself lists Gordon behind Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker, neither likely Hall of Famers, on the list of all-time great second basemen. Gordon is #16, just ahead of Willie Randolph. The argument was also made that if Bobby Doerr could be elected, why not Joe Gordon? But Joe Gordon was on the ballot roughly twice as long as his own career lasted, a big hint that he just didn�t have a Hall of Fame career. Our argument is that a career of 11 years simply isn�t long enough to judge a position player, even someone as good as Joe Gordon. Extrapolating might-have-been statistics for fielders with short careers is simply not sufficient to determine Hall of Fame credentials. What we have is yet another Yankees inductee into the Hall of the Very Good.

http://what-the-hall.info/?gordon

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, we were among giants then. Collossi. And, yeah, they likely aren't done.

Nineteen-sixty-niners still with a door open to the Hall of Fame, in order of likelihood.

1. Joe Torre
2. Tony Oliva
3. Gil Hodges
4. JIm Kaat

Um...

5. Rusty Staub or Davy Johnson

I assume Tony LaRussa wasn't part of the 1969 set.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Here are your Hall of Famers appearing in the 1959 Topps baseball set. I've purposely omitted two HOF'ers. Try and name them in the same post. No partial credit.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Guest

[G-Fafif]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, we were among giants then. Collossi. And, yeah, they likely aren't done. Nineteen-sixty-niners still with a door open to the Hall of Fame, in order of likelihood. 1. Joe Torre 2. Tony Oliva 3. Gil Hodges 4. JIm Kaat Um... 5. Rusty Staub or Davy Johnson I assume Tony LaRussa wasn't part of the 1969 set.

[G-Fafif]

Close on La Russa, but not quite.

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, we were among giants then. Collossi. And, yeah, they likely aren't done. Nineteen-sixty-niners still with a door open to the Hall of Fame, in order of likelihood. 1. Joe Torre 2. Tony Oliva 3. Gil Hodges 4. JIm Kaat Um... 5. Rusty Staub or Davy Johnson I assume Tony LaRussa wasn't part of the 1969 set.

For a second, I thought I left Cox out -- until I saw your post in the 1978 set quiz. I was ready to blame the MF MFY's.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Here are your Hall of Famers appearing in the 1959 Topps baseball set. I've purposely omitted two HOF'ers. Try and name them in the same post. No partial credit.

It's hint time. Though, none of the missing HOF'ers ever played a game for the Mets, they both have Metly connections.

[G-Fafif]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Here are your Hall of Famers appearing in the 1959 Topps baseball set. I've purposely omitted two HOF'ers. Try and name them in the same post. No partial credit. It's hint time. Though, none of the missing HOF'ers ever played a game for the Mets, they both have Metly connections.

Going with visiting spring training instructor and first Mets no-hitter victimizer Sandy Koufax and former Mets braintruster Whitey Herzog.

[batmagadanleadoff]