IGT Tues Jul 17 Mets at Nats

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: ... That's smart, but it's hard to apply in an era where teams put themselves in a position to need five-seven good relievers.

This is a large part of the problem. Even back in the day when teams aspired to assemble a bullpen comprised of just two solid relievers and a supporting cast of mop-up men, half the teams had crappy bullpens. There just ain't enough relievers out there to supply 30 teams with five or six dependable relievers. Not even close. Of course, this doesn't account fully for the Mets bullpen woes, because the Mets might arguably have the worst bullpen in all of baseball right now.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: There's obviously a disease of CAHfidence going around, I think Rauch and FrankFrank caught it first and just passed it onto the others. Or maybe it was Acosta, whose case was fatal. There is no cure but to will it back, one guy at a time, as a unit, and accept that relief pitching is unpredictable. Meantime, scoring more runs and making fewer errors would build some room for error.

That's the stuff. It's tough medicine to swallow, but it's true.

How about upgrading Ramirez? He still seems to have some swagger.

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: ... That's smart, but it's hard to apply in an era where teams put themselves in a position to need five-seven good relievers. This is a large part of the problem. Even back in the day when teams aspired to assemble a bullpen comprised of just two solid relievers and a supporting cast of mop-up men, half the teams had crappy bullpens. There just ain't enough relievers out there to supply 30 teams with five or six dependable relievers. Not even close. Of course, this doesn't account fully for the Mets bullpen woes, because the Mets might arguably have the worst bullpen in all of baseball right now.

Do the Mets have even one dependable reliever? Is there any Mets reliever that, right now, wouldn't give you the willies in the last innings of a tight game?

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Do the Mets have even one dependable reliever? Is there any Mets reliever that, right now, wouldn't give you the willies in the last innings of a tight game?

Parnell's close for me, recent struggles aside.

Few teams have that guy though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd personally recall Elvin Ramirez, and make him the "closer." Why not? He has a good arm and some cojones.

That might insult all the others and make them work harder. I'd make room for him by trading Rauch to an AL contender for some future bullpen fodder.

[bmfc1]

When Desmond came up, the Nationals fan to my right said to watch for the squeeze since Desmond can't swing. Shorty walked Desmond intentionally. Was there any discussion on TV or radio about Desmond's injury?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/injured-ian-desmond-plays-crucial-role-didnt-need-to-swing/2012/07/18/gJQA84oftW_blog.html

[Edgy MD]

There was on the radio. They were suggesting Wright watch for the squeeze also.

[ashie62]

Elvin Ramirez has a very live arm.

[Frayed Knot]

The next person in this thread bitching about using Beato last night who actually suggests an alternative will be the first.
And I mean someone who was usable in last night's game, not just a non-specific cry of "somebody out there" or Ashie screaming "Street" at random intervals.

[Edgy MD]

Well, somebody suggested Rauch and Batista were possibilities. Let me read back...

... oh, scratch that. It was you.

I'm not sure who the right person is to bring in with the bases loaded and the game tied in extra innings on the road. Walter Johnson, I guess, but he's dead. The only answer is: the best available dude at getting people out. Maybe that wasn't Beato, but I hardly see strong evidence that it wasn't Beato.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, somebody suggested Rauch and Batista were possibilities. Let me read back... ... oh, scratch that. It was you. I'm not sure who the right person is to bring in with the bases loaded and the game tied in extra innings on the road. Walter Johnson, I guess, but he's dead. The only answer is: the best available dude at getting people out. Maybe that wasn't Beato, but I hardly see strong evidence that it wasn't Beato.

Between Batista, Rauch and Beato which was all that left, I think you can make a strong case for Nieuwenhuis.

[bmfc1]

The next person in this thread bitching about using Beato last night who actually suggests an alternative will be the first

They'd be the second because LAST NIGHT I said: "Shorty should have left Byrdak in with the bases loaded."

Byrdak sucked but I'd rather have the veteran, who was already in the game, pitching with the bases loaded, than the rookie who was just called up and was not already in the game, even if meant an opposite matchup. And again, I said that to my son as Shorty went to the mound.

[Edgy MD]

Beato isn't a rookie, and he wasn't so much just called up as he's just returning.

Byrdak's OBP given up to righties is .407 for his career and .457 this season. Beato's was .276 on his career and .250 for his few appearances this season.

Regarding "Shorty,": Yup, he's short. Manuel's black. Howe's bald. Let's lay off, for the love of the rest of us pocket people.

[bmfc1]

Edgy DC wrote: Beato isn't a rookie, and he wasn't so much just called up as he's just returning. Byrdak's OBP given up to righties is .407 for his career and .457 this season. Beato's was .276 on his career and .250 for his few appearances this season. Regarding "Shorty,": Yup, he's short. Manuel's black. Howe's bald. Let's lay off, for the love of the rest of us pocket people.

"Rookie"--no, you're right, but far more inexperienced than Byrdak.
I'm surprised at your use of stats to justify removing Byrdak when you eloquently decry bringing in "cold" relievers at the expense. You've made a strong case on that point.
And "Shorty" he is, to me. I'm no Randy Newman but it's what I will call him. And I would never use a phrase like "pocket people"--that's just mean.

[Edgy MD]

I don't find fault with bringing in cold relievers (I would understand that they are all cold). I criticize bringing in anybody in place of pitchers who are succeeding and unfatigued, and in most cases pulling pitchers who are not meaningfully mismatched.

Byrdak was certainly not succeeding, and he certainly was mismatched.

The Mets had no good options. Byrdak's performance saw to that.

[bmfc1]

I disagreed about last night's final AB and continue to do so but I appreciate your points.