Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Per Rubin: the Mets designated for assignment Vinny Rottino in the early morning hours and called up southpaw Justin Hampson, 32, who was 5-4 with a 3.38 ERA in 79 appearances (one start) for the Rockies and Padres from 2006 to 2008. This season, he was 4-2 with a 2.13 ERA and two saves in 28 appearances with Triple-A Buffalo.

[G-Fafif]

Per Rubin: the Mets designated for assignment Vinny Rottino in the early morning hours

Wake up Vinny, seems Sandy's got something to say to you
It's the end of June and he'd like to send you to Buffalo
Sorry that you've been DFA'd
He really wishes that you could've stayed
Oh Vinny, our bullpen couldn't suck much more...

[metirish]

That's gold

[Edgy MD]

This really underscores any disappointment I have in the leadership. To much protectionism.

Rottino should have started at first yesterday. If not, there was no need to be carrying him (as they suddenly realized late last night. If they needed to get Turner in (protectionism), they could have put him at second where his bat isn't such a dropoff. (As it is, baked a big fat 0-4 cake.)

They won't give Parnell a second inning, because I guess his arm is too precious (counterproductive protectionism), but they'll give a second one to Batista, because he's old, not long for the baseball world, and his arm is somehow more dispose-able. So he gets a save-the-bullpen stretch job (protectionism) in a the late innings of a tie game and a rubber match before a sellout crowd.

Now they go for Hampson, so they get a second lefty-lefty matchup in the game, which will seemingly protect people, but will really just lead to more relievers used per game.

Anywutz, welcome to the bigs, Justin Hampson. Sorry you caught me on a disappointed morning. I predict Hampson gets 38.

[bmfc1]

The bench now has a too many middle IFs. Could use Pascucci so there's someone that is most likely to hit a 3-run homer (Nickeas, Turner, Q, Cedeno/Murphy, Nieuwenhuis/Torres).

[Edgy MD]

I really pooped in this thread. Sorry.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I really pooped in this thread. Sorry.

intestinal discomfort?

[nymr83]

Too many relievers, not enough platoons/pinch-hitters is a common theme across the league these days.

When the Mets say "bullpen help" they really mean "warm body with arm attached" because he isn't really going to HELP, is he?

Given the number of guys who barely hit AND have adequate defensive replacements (catcher, 2B, sometimes SS/1B, outfielders) a bat like Pascucci would be more valuable than another reliever. Heck the Mets could go 11-man if they are willing to carry both Batista and Hefner for multiple inning stints (the remaining 4 would be Francisco, Parnell, Rauch, and Byrdak for now) and then have room for a positionless pinch-hit slugger (think Thome)

[Edgy MD]

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen.

I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes."

Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy.

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Too many relievers, not enough platoons/pinch-hitters is a common theme across the league these days. When the Mets say "bullpen help" they really mean "warm body with arm attached" because he isn't really going to HELP, is he? Given the number of guys who barely hit AND have adequate defensive replacements (catcher, 2B, sometimes SS/1B, outfielders) a bat like Pascucci would be more valuable than another reliever. Heck the Mets could go 11-man if they are willing to carry both Batista and Hefner for multiple inning stints (the remaining 4 would be Francisco, Parnell, Rauch, and Byrdak for now) and then have room for a positionless pinch-hit slugger (think Thome)

While I don't deny I'd like a more righty power bat off the bench guy (I think I even advocated for it instead of Turner preseason, who really seems like he could/should be the odd man out) I'm not sure I believe Pascucci is necessarily capable enough for that. Easier said than done, but I think the payoff is better trying to figure out why Murphy/Tejada/Turner/Torres/Thole have 2 HRs total. I know none of them are even remotely sluggers, but preseason you'd probably figure you'd have 10-15 from them to this point right? That's not very much but an extra 10-60 runs is a decent uptick. It really plays in in games like this weekend, when the margin for error was so low that them capitalizing more on our errors than us theirs was the difference. compared to Friday when Davis knocked one over the fence for a sudden +3 that was awesome. (Stupid Oysters. "For appearing on Mets Extra, Ike Davis gets a gift certificate to the Grand Central Oyster Bar!" Thanks Ed Coleman..)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy.

Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights.

[Ceetar]

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy. Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights.

Maybe, maybe not. Where exactly did Cory Wade and Coby Appely or whatever the hell his name is come from? We did in fact chase CC in the 6th. 3.1 innings of bullpen work and the Yankees bullpen was present all weekend, they just didn't push the runners across despite drawing plenty of walks and some hits.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights.

I think they do if they're not giving first base to Turner or the bullpen to Batista.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy. Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. Maybe, maybe not. ... they just didn't push the runners across despite drawing plenty of walks and some hits.

That's cuz the Mets are one of the worst HR hitting teams in the majors. And that's a lack of a talent. As Frankie Frank might'a said, maybe the Mets' chickens are coming home to roost.

[Edgy MD]

They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no?

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. I think they do if they're not giving first base to Turner or the bullpen to Batista.

I dunno, are they really worse than the guys other teams run out there? I don't think so. Batista had a really bad start to the season but he actually hasn't been bad lately. Turner's only recently back from the DL. Problem was more that Ike was out. Ty Wigginton has a .314 OBP Jayson Nix also .314 OBP. They slug better than Turner though, but it seems like the Mets prioritized OBP..)


?#mets? bullpen has a 4.69 ERA in June. 7 HR and 26 BB. 1.54 K/BB rate. This is a decent tick better than April/May, but that may just be due to subtracting Acosta more than anyone actually pitching better.

solution? More Parnell, less Batista who are the extremes in the K/BB dept. Rauch actually has a good K/BB rate too, though more because he walks no one. I would guess that means he should be used in clean innings so BABIP luck doesn't kill him?

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no?

Is Rottino actually a power hitter? Doesn't seem like it. He hit 11 in the minors last year, but it was the PCL. Turner had 10 in the International League in 2010.

Ike doing better should be a huge deal in the SLG dept. let's hope that's for real and he stops with the oysters.

Theoretically the warmer weather should lead to Murphy and co poking one or two more out?

Can we actually find a power hitting utility guy that we trust to not completely suck? particularly a MIer? Who's out there? It might not be a horrible idea to break the OBP mold with a .250/.310/.450 type guy that's going to going to capitalize on the "The Mets work counts, I can sneak a first pitch meatball here.." relievers.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no?

I suppose. But that just magnifies the Mets lack of power. Vinny Rottino?

[Edgy MD]

Vinny Fucking Rottino!

Turner amplifies the Mets lack of power.

[ashie62]

If it comes to Pascucci to provide more power we are more fucked than I thought.

Guy is an 11 year minor league fart in the wind.

[Edgy MD]

We were two farts away from sweeping this series.

[Vic Sage]

the Mets do have a pretty good RH power bat on the bench... it's just that he's busy starting in LF these days.
There is no reason we should be carrying both Q and Cedeno, whose skill sets are almost identical. One needs to go in exchange for a bat.

[Frayed Knot]

Be nice if Vinny survives as a Met through the DFA process and lives to come back another day, but I sense some danger of overselling what his 6 hits in 32 ABs provided to the team (even if three of those hits were for XBs and he tossed in some walks) a batting rate which is pretty much in line if not somewhat exceeding his ML avgs elsewhere (scant though they may be).
Yes Turner's 0-4 and slight misplay at 1st (the error was Dickey's) didn't help matters, but let's not act as if those were a given before the night started and were something sure to be topped by Rottino.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think his 0-4 and misplay were a "given." Of course not. I just think they were clearly more likely than they would have been with Rottino in the lineup.

The truth is I'd have been just as likely to bench Cede�o in favor of Rottino, and Cede�o had two hits.

The point is that any role he had on this team should've been to provide coverage against the likes of Sabathia. I just think between that and the bullpen usage, we lost a big series without putting our best foot forward.

Of course Rottino could have gone 0-4 with two GiDPs. If we lose with our best horses, so be it. But over the long haul wouldn't you rather have him as your firstbaseman (or firstbaseman against lefties)?

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think his 0-4 and misplay were a "given." ... I just think they were clearly more likely than they would have been with Rottino in the lineup.

The career .250 ML/.309 ml hitting 27 y.o was "clearly more likely" to hang up an oh-fer than the 32 y/o .188 ML/.295 ml guy?
I'm not seeing that.

[Edgy MD]

I'd invite you to look at more stats. More splits. More realities.

[Frayed Knot]

Yes, I am aware of other stats, just not ones that are going to tell me what you're claiming they're going to tell me.
Specifically I find that Rottino's ML stats are so sparse (being a career minor leaguer and all with ~250 career ML ABs and 32 this season prior to last night) that I can go back to the minor league portion of each player's career at which point I find that Turner had a higher BA (already mentioned) with virtually identical walk AND IsoP rates.
Either way, nothing I see "clearly" shows me much of anything - particularly for a 4 AB stand.

And look, I would have had no problem if Terry had started Vinny at 1B last night, my point is that I just don't see, given that Ike was out and a tough LHP on the mound, the clamor over starting Turner when, OMG, Vinny Rottino was available.

[Edgy MD]

There's no need to resort to a mischaracterization. I never OMG'd in my life.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: There's no need to resort to a mischaracterization. I never OMG'd in my life.

I have!

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: We were two farts away from sweeping this series.

OMG! You are correct Sir..Few other series also.