IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Edgy DC wrote: [*]David Wright has pants made of sugar.

So did Tim Raines and that could get him in the Hall of Fame.

[soupcan]

Edgy DC wrote: [*]Reyes made clear by his second half last year that he was protecting his health by playing a diminished level of aggression to protect his marketability.

I don't know - yeah maybe, but I can't really fault a guy for trying to protect his career. When he was 100% he was always full throttle for the Mets. At least I thought so.

[Edgy MD]

You don't have to necessarily fault him to a large extent, but him making that play on top of spurning the Mets at mid-season kind of takes some of the pressure off of Alderson, which is a contrast with Wright's situation now, though it came in the second half.

[soupcan]

You could be right, but right or wrong you are the biggest Mets fan ever.

God love ya.

Sandy should hire you.

[Gwreck]

You make some good points but there are several that I will take umbrage with:

Edgy DC wrote: Reyes was never that good before.

Reyes WAR:
2006: 5.9
2007: 5.4
2008: 5.3
2011: 5.8

Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, yet he has frequently hurt his legs.

Games Played:
2005: 161
2006: 153
2007: 160
2008: 159
2010: 133
2011: 126

Reyes, while seemingly like a sweetheart, has demonstrated a penchant for self-centeredness and disengagement when he's unhappy.

There's no objective measure for this but if we're discussing the implications of giving him a big pile of cash, it seems unlikely that said big pile of cash is going to make him unhappy.

While Reyes was hurt, his potential replacement performed very well.

I'll give you "well" without the "very" modifier. 1.6 WAR in 2011 over 376 PAs.

David Wright has pants made of sugar.

Jose Reyes was the most exciting player the franchise has had in 20 years, if not more.

A declining shortstop is a more fearsome thing than a declining thirdbaseman, in general.

Assuming you leave him at shortstop and don't move him to another position.

Reyes was never such a good player and it was easy to see his excellence last year as a particularly good year by a good player

See WAR table above.

[TransMonk]

The lack of production due to injury in 2009 and 2010 cannot just be omitted, though. He has had multiple leg injuries and a large part of his value does come from his legs.

[Edgy MD]

Gwreck wrote: You make some good points but there are several that I will take umbrage with: Reyes was never that good before. Reyes WAR: 2006: 5.9 2007: 5.4 2008: 5.3 2011: 5.8

Without disputing WAR, I'm specifically referring to the player he was the first half of 2011 there.

Gwreck wrote: Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, yet he has frequently hurt his legs. Games Played: 2005: 161 2006: 153 2007: 160 2008: 159 2010: 133 2011: 126

Which I think reasonably demonstrates the two most recent seasons curtailed by injuries that makes one wary of giving a 6-7 year commitment. Don't you think?

Gwreck wrote: David Wright has pants made of sugar. Jose Reyes was the most exciting player the franchise has had in 20 years, if not more.

Well, I'm really speaking to his overt image-consciousness, which makes working with him easier on a GM. He's boring in this regard, but less stressful to be around. He's a good corporate citizen.

Gwreck wrote: A declining shortstop is a more fearsome thing than a declining thirdbaseman, in general. Assuming you leave him at shortstop and don't move him to another position.

This also deteriorates his value.

Gwreck wrote: Reyes was never such a good player and it was easy to see his excellence last year as a particularly good year by a good player See WAR table above.

Without, again, directly disputing the meaning of WAR, the notion that he matched his very best prior season of 2006, despite playing 27 fewer games, I think, leads me to hold my point. Reyes was never that good. And I think Sandy went forward in consciousness that his level of play in the first half of 2011 would be hard to sustain through a large portion of his contract.

Your points otherwise are acknowledge on those I didn't answer, and my enthusiasm is duly tempered on those I did answer. I still say that the situations are very different, and Alderson's attitude appears very different.